China ‘ready to use N-weapons against US’

[Bryan Buchan]

Here we go again...

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/28cfe55a-f4a7-11d9-9dd1-00000e2511c8.html


China is prepared to use nuclear weapons against the US if it is attacked by Washington during a confrontation over Taiwan, according to a senior Chinese military official.


"If the Americans draw their missiles and position-guided ammunition on to the target zone on China's territory, I think we will have to respond with nuclear weapons," Zhu Chenghu, a major general in the People's Liberation Army, said at an official briefing.

[Dickie Flatt]

1. And you thought the "nuclear option" battle was a high stakes game

[gmoney]

2. Why don't they just call in the loans?

They could bring us to our knees with the stroke of a pen.

[tubbacheez]

7. By rattling the military saber, China can scare the Administration

into investing ever more dollars into weapons and defense systems.

They already know we finance our investments with borrowed money. They'll be happy to let us sink deeper into international debt. No matter who extends a loan, someone else can always buy it... especially if the borrower is looking financially weaker and in danger of default.

China could 1). scare us into spending more than we can afford, 2). unpeg the yen and let the dollar drill downwards, which 3). makes us less able to pay our foreign debts, causing 4). us to look like potential deadbeats, before 5). China buys up U.S. debt on the open market at bargain prices.


They wouldn't want to destroy us. They'd want to own us.

Destroying a country is stupid and wasteful. Taking it over is something those nefarious political types in Beijing (and Washington) would rather do. Not all imperialists work for U.S. government.

[NEOBuckeye]

25. Exactly. I think the Chinese know how they are going to handle the US

And it won't even take a bloated military budget to do it, either. We are in such debt to the Chinese that even some minor economic manipulation on their part could bring the US to its' knees faster and more cheaply than any all-out invasion ever could.

[lateo]

32. This is exactly what this administration wants...

Restart the cold war.

Oh joy.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

33. The new financial colonialism n/t

[bearfan454]

54. That is very true.

Just sell all their T-Bills and we're fucked.

[K-W]

63. But China would be fucked too, along with the rest of the industrial world

The world economy is deeply tied to the US economy. No nation can afford to overturn the applecart uless it intends an internal economic revolution as well.

[K-W]

61. Because the payment is structured and cant be changed by China EOM

[sniffa]

3. bring it on!!

wooo!

[Endangered Specie]

4. I dont think China would be that stupid...

they just need to rattle the chain so the Peoples Government looks like its doing something. It works in all countries, Bush rattles war/terra chain, opinions go up, same there.

[still_one]

10. I agree with you

it is this administration that I think is stupid

Talk is cheaper than bullets

[bluestateguy]

5. I don't really see why we need to get involved with the Taiwan-China thing

I certainly don't want Taiwan to be a Communist province, but it does not strike me as something worth risking nuclear war over.

[tubbacheez]

11. The U.S. promised to protect Taiwan from China.

Truman made the original promise. Ike formalized it into a treaty. We ditched it in the 80's but the sentiment kept thriving in Congress, probably watered by business interests.

http://www.factmonster.com/spot/taiwantime1.html




Today, Taiwan has quite a bit of cash, plus lots of American armaments. China is militarily stronger than Taiwan, but Taiwan won't go down without a costly battle for all involved.

And those business interests (who now have expanded into both Taiwan and China) and their friends in Congress don't like that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Taiwan wouldn't last an hour if China decided to wipe them out....

...and at the rate China is improving her military, she will be our next superpower rival in 10-15 years.

Of course, that assumes we haven't self-destructed in the next 10-15 years.

[tubbacheez]

40. China wouldn't want to wipe Taiwan out.

What's the point in taking over a wasteland? Beijing is far more practical, and Taiwan is far more valuable intact than obliterated.

The usual American machismo so often found in Freeperland doesn't apply in most parts of the world. Most societies can't grasp our "blow 'em away" attitude toward conflict.

Maybe we can afford such thoughts only because we have such a huge land mass under our country. Laying waste to land (especially overseas) isn't a big deal here.

Taiwan sometimes comes darn close to holding itself hostage in dealing with China. And, coupled with the U.S. alliance, it has been an imperfect but workable deterrent since the Communists took over China.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. Did I state that China would need to use nuclear weapons? No.

[tubbacheez]

52. And I didn't say "nuclear".

Wastelands can be made by conventional weapons too.



My previous point still stands. For political and economic purposes, obliteration simply requires sufficient disabling of manufacturing and infrastructure... by any means. Nuking a nation is only one way to do that.

[The Straight Story]

66. Actually Taiwan could hold it's own for awhile

China has to cross water to get there, and would be seen coming. Taiwan could take a large amount of their ships before they could land or get close enough to do a lot of harm.

I read a good military analysis of this some time ago and if I dig it up will post a link. China has to get to Taiwan before they can attack it, and getting there would inflict mass casualties on the chinese. If their boats get sunk on the way there then they have little options. If they send bombers they will be seen coming as well and shot down. They may well eventually win, but would not be much of a win....

[The Straight Story]

67. Some Links (see my last post)

http://www.defenselink.mil/pubs/twstrait_02261999.html

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/01autumn/Russell.htm

http://www.google.com/unclesam?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&q=Taiwan+china+attack+defense&btnG=Search

[DeaconBlues]

69. China doesn't have the naval or airlift capacities to occupy Taiwan

They could make life miserable with bombing and missle attacks, but it can't take the island. If it could, it would have already tried.

[pretzel4gore]

17. taiwan claims it's the government

of china, not just taiwan....at least that was how the mess got started.....the beijing government in turns says taiwan is a part of the republic. you can see how this isn't just academic- the US is the main player

[IA_Seth]

6. This should make the Chinese happy....

"We Chinese will prepare ourselves for the destruction of all of the cities east of Xian. Of course the Americans will have to be prepared that hundreds. . . of cities will be destroyed by the Chinese."


Wow. Hopefully Taiwan will not come to a head while ol pig-headed idiot is still in office.

[XemaSab]

8. Yeah, but what happens

if we destroy all the cities WEST of Xian?

Didn't see that one coming, did you?

[MissB]

12. It may be inappropriate

but that made me laugh my ass off. :rofl:

[cire4]

23. The poor Tibetans will suffer even more....

considering there's nothing west of Xian except for some minority villages and the Tibetan plateau...

[XemaSab]

24. Lots of muslims out there.

Culturally, most of the stuff west of Xian is more central asian than Chinese.

[Chrisduhfur]

60. hahahaha

hehehe lol good one.

[sleipnir]

34. How? They have like a dozen missiles...God only knows if they will work.

1/3 of Russia's nukes wouldn't even fire. Bad design, with poor maintenance and the word is the Chinese missiles aren't MIRV.

[burrowowl]

44. All of China's ICBMs

might be in working order. How many of the U$ ICBMs are?
China has more money than Russia thanks to: 3 guesses and the first 2 don't count.

[jayfish]

48. If You Include Sea Launched Ballistic Missiles.

The answer is about 6000. If you add cruise missiles to the mix it's around 8000. The total US nuclear arsenal is around 10,000 devices. These are warhead counts not delivery system counts.

[still_one]

9. why is this any worse then when we say

we will attack any country we believe is a threat to us, pre-emptive

i.e. Iraq, etc.

[mom cat]

14. Because we "R" mericuns. And THEY aren't. Our divinely appointed

King told me so.........

[jayfish]

36. More Like, Because...

they would cease to exist. We would not.

Note To China:

Don't get to big for your britches just yet. Threatening the US with the use of nuclear weapons is just about the dumbest thing you could possibly do. Morans!

Jay

[Kraklen]

13. Duh.

This is news because?

[maddezmom]

15. cuz the WH has needs a another distraction

:shrug:

[leftchick]

19. cuz Karl is in trouble?

:shrug:

[mom cat]

16. Welcome to DU Bryan Buchan.

:hi:

[Bryan Buchan]

18. Thanks

Thanks...it already feels like my virtual home...

[mom cat]

20. It is an addiction...and I here there is no cure, so make yourself

comfortable.

[phillinweird247]

59. I second that

I'm on here like 7 hours out of an 8 hour work day.
we hired a temp who turned me on to this site like a year ago and I never looked back.

What do you mean i'm fired?

[mom cat]

78. I thought that I had it bad..actually, I have spent the whole day just

DUing.... some days I tried to justify all the time I spend here, but lately I've come to embrace my illness and am just trying to be tender to it.

[Zorra]

21. Bu*h has weakened our military so thoroughly by invading Iraq and

Afghanistan that we can't hardly even defend our own borders anymore.

I don't think China has to worry about the US protecting Taiwan.

More than likely, Bu*h will just give them UNOCAL as a gesture of good will between a fascist and a communist corporate dictatorship.

[VegasWolf]

22. Well, this should make Bush wet his pants. He only attacks countries

that can't fight back.

[bonofor prez]

27. Didn't Sun Tzu say...

something about it is best to win a war without firing a shot?

The Chinese are just that cagey. They think in terms of decades and centuries not in terms of the next election cycle. They know that if we continue our trade deficit with them, keep spending beyond our means they will be able to conquer us financially. I hate to quote Alannis Morisette but

"Isn't it ironic?"

[StevieM]

28. The idea of China as the world's superpower is scary.....

we should have focused our foreign policy around that, rather then Iraq.

Steve

[wli]

86. PNAC did IIRC

Their openly-stated tactic was to "project military power" over oil-producing regions to compete with the rest of the world, in particular, China, for oil, and keep the petrodollar alive.

[ckramer]

29. Who would be next superpower after US and China throwing

nukes at each other.

I guess it's Russian Bear again.

Interestingly, China is about the same size as US.

But I hope all these talks are just BS.

[jayfish]

37. The US.

Sorry to say, but in a nuclear confrontation, the US could vaporise China ten times over and still remain the worlds superpower.

Jay

[NickB79]

73. Superpowers need to eat too

A nuclear exchange using even a few dozen megaton-yielding nukes is enough to create a global nuclear winter that could last for several years. An all-out exchange involving hundreds, if not thousands, of warheads could create a decades-long winter.

The breadbasket of the US would be pretty empty without sunlight to grow our corn and wheat. For that matter, pretty much all major farming areas of the planet would suffer greatly. There would be no more superpowers after a US-China nuclear war, even if we vaporized every Chinese city and only lost a few of our own.

[jayfish]

74. I'm Talking About This...

on a strictly military basis. The general populous would be f'ed of course. But the government and the military brass wouldn't be part of that. The would be safely holed up in their "undisclosed locations".

Jay

[daleo]

76. You can't be much of a superpower if the general population is f'ed

Imagine if a few dozen missiles got through to some of the most important American cities? Even without considering the fallout question, the result might set back the U.S. for generations - think of losing Washington DC, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, San Diego, Denver, Houston, Dallas, Boston, and St. Louis. That's just a dozen there.

[shadowknows69]

55. wrong, it's the cockroaches

n/t

[Chrisduhfur]

64. No one.

I am no expert, but I would tend to believe the entire world would be screwed for a long time.

[TankLV]

81. I vote for Brazil.

Very interesting country.

Love the theme music, too!

B-r-a-z-i-l --- da da da da da da da daaaaaaaaa.....

[Mojambo]

30. Why bother?

They can bomb us into economic submission using our very own "weapons of capitalism" against us.

[Robert Oak]

31. so, let me see, what's the trade giveaway

called China PNTR done to supposedly stop China from blowing up the US?

Looks like it worked well...basically China got a lot of the US dough
and used it to build up their military.

I'm serious, I received a letter from Hooley claiming that we trade
"increased national security" as part of a trade agreement.

Now who wants to buy the Brooklyn bridge....

ok congress, I can't sell ya all at once, please form a line.

[wli]

87. Depression-era beggar thy neighbor

What do you think pegging the yuan is?

[NNN0LHI]

35. I thought Bush was counting on China to diffuse the N.Korean issue

Who is going to diffuse the China issue?

Don

[karlrschneider]

38. Most countries with militaries have their "General Boykin" types...

but maybe I oughta restock my duct tape...
;-)

[are_we_united_yet]

39. Hey China you don't scare us. * tells us we're safer. n/t

[July_July]

41. And my friends can't figure out why

I'm majoring in Chinese.

The next decade or so will be very interesting. In many ways the US military has already begun to move away from the war on terror and shift its focus to the Chinese, especially in regards to the Navy and Air Force.

[stilpist]

42. Sometimes I nuke my leftover moo goo gai pan.

I hope that's not what's pissing them off!


(Sorry... I know it's a serious topic. Couldn't (didn't) resist.)

[WCGreen]

47. Almost LOL,,, A snicker,,,, a smile......

[WhiteTara]

43. in truth all they have to do is stop shipping

to us. We would be completely at their mercy. Of course, their economy would suffer somewhat. BTW, I am so glad that chimpy gave them an advanced recon (?) plane back in 2000 so they could study the technology carefully, just in case they ever needed to go to war with us.

[jayfish]

49. I Would Welcome It.

Maybe America could learn to make stuff again.

Jay

[WhiteTara]

77. Wouldn't that be novel?

My manufacturing company of 18 years went out of business last October. We were unable to maintain wages against the prices coming out of China. Much to my chagrin and depression, we have imported product and for the first time in 8 years, we have made some money.

[niallmac]

45. Nuke us? Just refuse to make our 'stuff' They make it all.

[Kool Kitty]

58. Now THAT is the real "nuclear option".

Could you even imagine that?

[Chrisduhfur]

65. That might hurt them more...

Wouldn't that actually end up hurting them more than it would hurt the US? Lot's of jobs may come back though... or maybe they would move to india.

[truthisfreedom]

46. thanks, bush, for keeping everything friendly all around the world for us.

bush is full of firsts, huh?

[Not_Giving_Up]

50. Don't you feel safer now?

:scared:

[90-percent]

53. US debt

I think it would be really coy of China to sell a major portion of the US debt they own to Iran!

Other than Iran's cash situation, what's to prevent them from doing it?

-85%

[Bassic]

57. That would not be a good idea, because

Then the U. S. could just start ignoring that part of the debt and spew off some diatribe about funding terrorists every time Teheran points it out.

[Bassic]

56. Os course this is obviously bullshit

Unless China really does want to start the speedy destruction of most of the planet.

[patcox2]

62. And the toads sing of liberty?

?

[DeaconBlues]

68. China intimidates the world like Saddam would have never dreamed of

But do we do anything about it? No, because we are addicted to the cheap plastic stuff they make.

[wli]

70. don't forget the recent Sino-Russian military alliance

[Eloriel]

71. Well, THIS wakes me right damn up

Thought I needed a nap, but apparently not. Not after this little bit of wonderful news.

:nuke:

[WinkyDink]

72. First, they came for

UNOCAL.

[lovuian]

75. Wake up call for Corporations!!! What happens when China goes

to war with America???

You get all those factories and investments gobbled up by China!!!

And I will smile with pleasure when they close down!!!

[cire4]

84. And that is exactly why a China-US war will never happen....

As long as China holds the key for American corporate profits and as long as American corporations control foreign policy, we will never see the US go to war with China.

Likewise, the Chinese economy is almost completely dependent on American consumers. The government won't do anything stupid to sink their own economy.

[VegasWolf]

79. They won't nedd to. Bush, pee-pee pants, will quit at first sign of

opposition!

[despairing optimist]

80. Why use nukes when they can just dump US treasuries on the market

and destroy the dollar by creating a panic in the currency and securities markets? Other countries will have to follow suit to save their own economies and the US will be isolated like some leprous crazy aunt.

[The Traveler]

82. And therein lies the wrinkle

with so-called globalization. Most people around the world remember that one has economies to support nations, not the other way around. The free marketeers worship a false god ... the Almighty Market. When the guns are drawn, their false god will not hear their pleas. When the bullet hits the bone, it will not ease their pain.

Lenin said it best: "When it comes time to hang the West, a Capitalist will sell me the rope."

[Chicago Democrat]

83. And we are ready to use them against her.... Blah, blah, blah...

sounds like the 50s all over again..


OK first of all MAD works



end

[raysr]

85. These fuckers

really are steering us into armeggedon!

[democracyindanger]

88. Whew! Lucky our missile defense is deployed.

Oh, waitaminute...

[VegasWolf]

89. Well, at least we gave billions to defense contractors to get it ready!

Err, wait a minute.