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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 09:57 PM
Original message
State Dept. Memo Gets Scrutiny in Leak Inquiry on C.I.A. Officer - NYT
<snip>

WASHINGTON, July 15 - Prosecutors in the C.I.A. leak case have shown intense interest in a 2003 State Department memorandum that explained how a former diplomat came to be dispatched on an intelligence-gathering mission and the role of his wife, a C.I.A. officer, in the trip, people who have been officially briefed on the case said.

Investigators in the case have been trying to learn whether officials at the White House and elsewhere in the administration learned of the C.I.A. officer's identity from the memorandum. They are seeking to determine if any officials then passed the name along to journalists and if officials were truthful in testifying about whether they had read the memorandum, the people who have been briefed said, asking not to be named because the special prosecutor heading the investigation had requested that no one discuss the case.

The memo was sent to Colin L. Powell, then the secretary of state, just before or as he traveled with President Bush and other senior officials to Africa starting on July 7, 2003, when the White House was scrambling to defend itself from a blast of criticism a few days earlier from the former diplomat, Joseph C. Wilson IV, current and former government officials said. Mr. Powell was seen walking around Air Force One during the trip with the memo in hand, said a person involved in the case who also requested anonymity because of the prosecutor's admonitions about talking about the investigation.

Investigators are also trying to determine whether the gist of the information in the memo, including the name of the C.I.A. officer, Valerie Wilson, Mr. Wilson's wife, had been provided to the White House even earlier, said another person who has been involved in the case. Investigators have been looking at whether the State Department provided the information to the White House before July 6, 2003, when her husband publicly criticized the way the administration used intelligence to justify the war in Iraq, the person said.

<snip>

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/politics/16memo.html

Curiouser and Curiouser...

:shrug:


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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. honestly -can you trust anything out of the nytimes these days
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. True. The irony of the WH pretending to stonewall and refusing to speak
Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 10:42 PM by Pirate Smile
on the topic with Scottie getting pummeled repeatedly because it is part of an "ongoing investigation" WHILE at the same time leaking enormous amounts of information specifically about the investigation - hmmm, why does this seem so very familiar.

Oh, yeah, I know. They always do this ala "I will only go to war as a last resort", blah, blah, blah WHILE trying to find every way they can to make sure there is no way the march to war can get stopped.

The official WH line is almost always exactly the opposite of what they are truly doing behind the scenes.

Bush is such a "straight shooter" who "means what he says and says what he means". :sarcasm:

It is official, again, this country has gone insane. :crazy:

What was the exact date that the NYT became the official WH stenographer?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. So now we're bringing Powell into this mess!
Hmmm. The plot thickens!!!!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You just knew Cheney and his crew would try to blame someone - Powell
fits the bill. He wasn't with them on the Iraq War - not truly with them.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I read something the other day
hypothesizing that Rover saw the memo in Africa.

Why isn't anybody also asking why the President's political adviser (pre Dep. Chief of Staff) would have access to all of Top Secret things?
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. THIS IS THE KEY!
This is how Rove, Scooter, and the rest learned about Plame. They read this memo.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. C'mon... Give Us More, LOL !!!
I know it's important, but I've read it 3 times so far, and all I've gotten is a headache.

I'm still waiting for my, "AH HA!!!" moment.

:hi:
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I don't know about that.
The last paragraph, for instance:

But it appears to differ in at least one way, raising questions about whether it was the original source of the material that ultimately made its way to Mr. Novak. In his July 14, 2003, column, Mr. Novak referred to Ms. Wilson as Valerie Plame. The State Department memo referred to her as Valerie Wilson, according to the government official who reread the memo on Friday.


SOMEONE first told Novak the name 'Plame'. But who?
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Bowel is just
as culpable as the rest, he did not do the right or honorable thing by resigning and told all the lies they wanted him to tell. The N.N. appearance was incredibely incredible and non-credible.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
44. And who gave them the memo to read? Powell? Bush? This is far
worse than Watergate. In Watergate, the cover-up was of a crime committed by mid-level burglars. In this case the crime itself was committed at the very top, at least Rove and quite possibly Cheney, Bush, Powell, Hadley, and perhaps Rice, Rumsfeld, and who else. We need to start thinking outside the Rove box to a larger picture.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #5
51. Shouldn't his have been an "eyes only" memo....
since KKKarl didn't have security clearance at that time? At least I don't think he did. It seems that a memo that includes the names of covert agents would be the high security, "eyes only" type. :shrug:

What did they do, give everyone a memo when they were going up the ramp to board? :wtf: The bush White House seems to be awfully lax with State secrets.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
54. Yeah, "Didn't You Get The Memo?"
Lol!!!

:rofl:
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. And who in the State Department would be doing the plumbing
Pulling information like this on US citizens and providing it to political operatives in the fucking West Wing? Yes, ummm, who could that be? Who is known throughout the State Department as a vindictive sonuvabitch who orders work-ups on US citizens and punishes intelligence analysts who dispute his speeches? Who could that be? It's a big ole fucking mystery, right?



Gimme a break.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
32. Something wrong with me..
Every time I see that bastard Bolton and creepy "Got Milk?" ad springs into my mind..

I have too much imagination as some folks will be only too glad to tell you :)

Maybe is should be more like "Got Asbestos?"
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Penndems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. If it was Bolton, he probably had help from somebody
looking to score points with this Administration.

He probably didn't do it alone.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm sure we've all at one time or another, outed a CIA operative,
It just happens folks, lets move on. Anyway I thought you told me who the agent was, wait? huh? I told you? me? you? agent, which? who? Novak, oh yeah that guy, I've heard he's a covert CIA agent. Hell aren't we all really covert CIA agents, DEEP DOWN INSIDE? Let's just, as a nation, collectively ground our national selves for a few decades. Stay home and BUILD SOMETHING TO SELL TO EACH OTHER or something for jobs. Maybe work on that trade imbalance or something. America, you've been very bad, very very naughty, now you've got to stay home and not invade anyone for a whole decade at least. And it's high time you work on that trade imbalance, you said you'd take care of it, now's the time.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. LOL!! Yes, and we really must get back to the unresolved issues of MFN
status for China and ethanol subsidies.

It's seriously comedic to hear the Republican spinners desperately announce that "Rove has been cleared by the NYT" or "There's no there there" or "Let's get back to the business of the people."

After all, what's a little CIA operative outing among friends...? Move along people...nothing here to see.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. So, Powell was seen with the memo on the same plane as Bush!
And now we also have info on the Rove e-mail to Stephen Hadley, in Condi Rice's office. This thing may just about be ready to get all lot bigger than Rove!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
37. So, someone who was on that plane is leaking to the press.
I mean, has to be, right, since the person leaking SAW Powell with that memo on the same plane as Bush.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Exactly. I wonder who was on the plane that today. We know that Bush was
That means that before Novak's article that Bush knew or had to have known the Wilson/Plame connection. Remember that Bush that day is still reeling from Joe Wilson's op-ed the previous day which essentially accused Bush of using false information and misleading the American public. Now aboard Air Force One, he has access to a memorandum that was soon to be used as retaliation. I can't really believe that he was not told anything, that he did not hear anything, and that he did not have his care to realistically retaliatory response to Wilson and Plame.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. A memo plus a personnel file of one or both of the Wilsons. We were
Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 11:00 PM by higher class
told earlier that another law may have been broken by having available on AF1 the personnel file of one or both of the Wilsons, one of which is supposed to be quite classified.

Are we talking three or four or five laws broken?

The 1917 law.
The 1992 law.
The classified personnel file.
Perjury.
Obstruction of Justice.

Let's just add our own law - trust in our leaders.

Learn everything you can about the AF1 trip to Africa, plus Hadley and Bolton Rice and Powell and Fleischer.

It is so interesting that Tenet and Fleischer dropped out during this period of our darkness. They pulled one over on us and the Wilson's.
But wait.

Many of you are all full of praise for Powell. Sound like he was working hard to justify the war.

Focus - AF1 Africa and calls to and from the flight.

Keep in the back of your mind the profit and legal motivation for cutting off the CIA investigation of nuclear and wmd trafficking.

Think of them all on the flight trying to figure out how two, three, or four birds can be shot simultaneously in one arrogant move. Think about them never hesitating in their resolve to cheat us. Just a little check with Ashcroft to see if it could all be 'fixed'.

For the moment, right wing media is knighting Rove. They see a halo 'round his head.

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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I know F. wanted the AF1 logs
Did he get them? I don't seem to remember if they obliged...
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. I knew this specific little item here would come up somehow.
Edited on Fri Jul-15-05 11:20 PM by Carolab
When Joe Wilson made a point on TV yesterday of saying his wife's name is "Valerie WILSON". I see that the NYT article has placed it LAST in the story...

"The information in the State Department memorandum generally tracked the information Mr. Novak laid out for Mr. Rove in their conversation, according to the account of their exchange provided by the person briefed on what Mr. Rove has told investigators.

But it appears to differ in at least one way, raising questions about whether it was the original source of the material that ultimately made its way to Mr. Novak. In his July 14, 2003, column, Mr. Novak referred to Ms. Wilson as Valerie Plame. The State Department memorandum referred to her as Valerie Wilson, according to the government official who reread it on Friday."

It's the little details like this that often trip liars up.
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. Man!
Who do you suppose is leaking all of these bits to everyone and their brother today?
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Bumblebee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. This one definitely did not come from Rove's lawyer...
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #16
38. I think it could have...
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 10:44 AM by Seabiscuit
"The information in the State Department memorandum generally tracked the information Mr. Novak laid out for Mr. Rove in their conversation, according to the account of their exchange provided by the person briefed on what Mr. Rove has told investigators."

The operative words are "...provided by the person briefed on what Mr. Rove has told investigators."

That could well be NYT-speak for the one person who would definitely know what Rove told "investigators" (read: grand jury, special prosecutor's office): Rove's lawyer.

I have this gut feeling that Rove's lawyer is the one doing all this media leaking this week at Rove's direction as part of the cover-up - feeding the RW media-whore-bobbleheads ammunition in an attempt to obscure the issues and declare Rove innocent of any wrong-doing. And I don't trust a word of it. Rove's lawyer can't utter a word without Rove's permission - and it all smells of Rovian double-speak. They're Rove's words, verbatim, emanating from his lawyer's mouth.

BTW, WELCOME TO DU, BUMBLEBEE!!!

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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #38
58. Thank God I'm not the only one...feeling sane in an insane world!
It would behoove all of us to think of this possibility. Remember, Rove is a champion liar; How does one trust a record-proven LIAR?

I have this gut feeling that Rove's lawyer is the one doing all this media leaking this week at Rove's direction as part of the cover-up - feeding the RW media-whore-bobbleheads ammunition in an attempt to obscure the issues and declare Rove innocent of any wrong-doing. And I don't trust a word of it. Rove's lawyer can't utter a word without Rove's permission - and it all smells of Rovian double-speak.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #58
60. Thank you for bolding some of my phrases - I'm honored!
:toast:
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. LOL!!!! Wish we could be bold enough to bold the phrases directly
to Rove et al...
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. Don't look now, but I think we are - Rove's minions are reading this as
we speak. :)
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-15-05 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hey that must be the classifed memo i heard someone on Charlie Rose
talking about early this week. On the show he said that Bush and Pwell were on a trip somewhere and they had the memo with them, the press was also on the plane and so was Rove.
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dooner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
20. I think this is spin spin spin
In this report, now we see Powell sloppily waving a classified memo around a small plane filled with reporters? Please, give me a freaking break. And I suppose Judith Miller was on the plane and saw Mrs. Wilson's name while Powell was nodding off after drinking his highball.

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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Rove was on the plane and the reporter i heard on charlie Rose said
that Rove might have given that info to more then one reporter.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
55. saw on another thread Rove was not on the plane...on a family vaca
And Cheney was in the DC area doing a stint on the USS Ronald Reagan. Perhaps the AF-1 logs are to see who called Cheney back in DC not Rove? :shrug:
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
22. I read another version of this in the NY Post
what it said and its fascinating to me cause I posted this an Nobody made a comment about it.. but here it goes again

they were on Airforce One Bush Powell AriFleisher and some and heres the punchline ... reporters (not named)

Colin Powell didn't have a memo but had her file on AirForce one

I have always had suspicions that one of the reporters on that flight witnessed or overheard something of the meeting going on.


and heres the catch line

Bush was there folks!!!
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Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Is the President guilty of treason?
Did he, with full knowledge and malice aforethought, disclose classified information to destroy his perceived enemies; his fellow Americans; people who have given their dedication and service to this country day upon day, year after year, while George Bush was drinking himself to death in a bar somewhere in Texas?

What shall his punishment be?

Suggestion: Tattoo a capital letter 'L' on his forehead, slap one of those GPS ankle bracelets on him, and give him home detention living in a double-wide down by the river. In Arkansas... within clear sight of the Clinton Presidential Library.

On second thought, better make it single.

No library for you, Mr. Bush.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Absolutely!!!
IMHO, every official act he's committed since entering office has been treasonous.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
23. Why would they need that information on
the plane with them? It wasn't urgent information that it needed trotted all over Africa. As far as I can see, it would be to work up a plan for it's use.
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Oh, but it was urgent
The day after Wilson's article ran, Richard Armitage called someone (I can't remember the name, it's in my notes somewhere) at home and had him send a copy of the memo to Powell who was at the WH getting ready to leave for Africa with Bush.

Either these people have a borg mind, or there was an ongoing plan to discredit Wilson that started in early May when Nicholas Kristoff wrote about his trip to Africa (without saying his name) and came to a head July 6 when Wilson's article was published.

Those days right after the publication of Wilson's article were crucial. Everybody had to get on the same page because the press was asking questions constantly about Wilson. They all had to get up to speed (even Powell, who was kept mostly out of the loop) in case they got asked about it during the trip.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. interesting press gaggle with Condi/Ari on plane 7/11/03
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 10:25 AM by maddezmom
Dr. Rice has reflections on the overall trip and then we're happy to take your questions.

Q Are we on the record, now?

MR. FLEISCHER: On the record.

Q Can we do it on camera, then?

MR. FLEISCHER: It's gaggle.

DR. RICE: We're on the record or background?

~snip~

Q Can I just interject one more time? Is there a reason why we wouldn't do this on camera if Dr. Rice is on the record?

MR. FLEISCHER: Because this is our standard way of doing gaggles, especially in the back of the plane.

Q But it's usually on background.

MR. FLEISCHER: Well, we standardly come back on the plane and try to mix it up. Remember Secretary Powell came back on the previous European trip on the record, but on gaggle, to begin the European trip. This is my way of trying to bring other people back here for people to get questions.

Q I appreciate that. But I just want to register a complaint for the networks that all of these comments are going to be on the record and in the newspapers and on the wires, but we're not going to see her on camera.

~snip~

Q Dr. Rice, there are a lot of reports, apparently overnight, that CIA people had informed the NSC well before the State of the Union that they had trouble the reference in the speech. Can you tell us specifically what your office had heard, what you had passed along to the President on that?

DR. RICE: The CIA cleared the speech. We have a clearance process that sends speeches out to relevant agencies -- in our case, the NSC, it's usually State, Defense, the CIA, sometimes the Treasury. The CIA cleared the speech in its entirety.

Now, the sentence in question comes from the notion the Iraqis were seeking yellow cake. And, remember, it says, "seeking yellow cake in Africa" is there in the National Intelligence Estimate. The National Intelligence Estimate is the document the that Director of Central Intelligence publishes as the collective view of the intelligence agencies about the status of any particular issue.

That was relied on to, like many other things in the National Intelligence Estimate, relied on to write the President's speech. The CIA cleared on it. There was even some discussion on that specific sentence, so that it reflected better what the CIA thought. And the speech was cleared.

much more:http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030711-7.html
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #36
59. Tres Interesting...
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 08:53 PM by shelley806
"Q I appreciate that. But I just want to register a complaint for the networks that all of these comments are going to be on the record and in the newspapers and on the wires, but we're not going to see her on camera."

"The CIA cleared on it. There was even some discussion on that specific sentence, so that it reflected better what the CIA thought. And the speech was cleared."
:sarcasm:
Cleared by a SLAM DUNK, no doubt. And when did Tenet resign?


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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Tenet resigns June 4, 2004 but calls for Plame investigation 9/03
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. this is a crucial development, daily kos all over it, compiling timeline
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Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. Laying low...
Powell can't comment, he's out of the country. And where's Cheney? Pretty frickin' quiet these days, eh? Seems pretty clear that the WH was workin' the Wilson angle quite actively. Can we now assume that the President was in the loop (duh), when Powell is walking around AF1 with the document in his hand?

Carl Ford. That's the guy that testified against Bolton.
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katusha Donating Member (592 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. wild theory
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 04:47 AM by katusha
From the article:
------------------
It is not clear who asked for the memorandum, but in the weeks before it was written, there were several accounts in newspapers about an unnamed former diplomat's trip to Africa seeking intelligence about Iraq's nuclear program. On May 6, 2003, Nicholas D. Kristof, a columnist for The Times, wrote of a "former U.S. ambassador to Africa" who had reported to the C.I.A. and the State Department that reports of Iraq seeking to acquire uranium in Niger were "unequivocally wrong."

The memorandum was prepared at the State Department, relying on notes by an analyst who was involved in meetings in early 2002 to discuss whether to send someone to Africa to investigate allegations that Iraq was pursuing uranium purchases. The C.I.A. was asked by Mr. Cheney's office and the State and Defense Departments to look into the reports.


And this:

The memorandum was dated June 10, 2003, nearly four weeks before Mr. Wilson wrote an Op-Ed article for The New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/16/politics/16memo.html
-------------------

Two months before wilson wrote his piece in the times, another writer for the times knows that wilson is gonna talk. almost a month before wilson goes public the "memo" is ordered up by unknown person(s).

from Sidney Blumenthal writing in salon we get this about the "memo":
--------------------
Curiously, the only document cited as the basis for Plame's role was a State Department memo that was later debunked by the CIA. The Washington Post, on Dec. 26, 2003, reported: "CIA officials have challenged the accuracy of the ... document, the official said, because the agency officer identified as talking about Plame's alleged role in arranging Wilson's trip could not have attended the meeting. 'It has been circulated around,' one official said." Even more curious, one of the outlets where the document was circulated was Talon News Service and its star correspondent, Jeff Gannon...According to the Post, "the CIA believes that people in the administration continue to release classified information to damage the figures at the center of the controversy."
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/07/14/plame/index.html
------------------------

It seems that gannon/guckert, like gollum, has a role to play yet in this story!
more importantly is the questions this raises about the "memo". was it forged, badly, like the forged Niger/Iraq documents that started the whole ball of wax rolling???
who ordered up the document???
why would they order up a "memo" about who sent this guy on this trip that they claim to have not known about???
was Bolton involved at all???

Also, notice that Kristof works for the Times, and Wilson posted his editorial in the Times. who else works for the Times? why Judith Miller works for the Times. What a coincidence.

So here's my wild theory.
If we assume that at least some people at the Times knew that wilson was gonna sing, then it's possible that sweet Judy got wind of this and she has her credibility tied up in the whole WMD thing. She's in it with Rove etc. up to her neck so what if she tipped Rove off that this Wilson guy had some dirt on them and what were they gonna do. maybe she is in jail to hide this.
Maybe she told Rove about Wilson in May, Rove got the dirty-trick machine rolling in June,which produced the "memo" before Wilson had even spoken out, the "memo" was then repeatedly leaked even as late as Dec. 2003. A "memo" that the CIA calls inaccurate.


edited to add: links
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Not so wild. Is there another law that they break for forging memos?
Has anyone ever figured out who forged the Niger documents that involved Italy and Israel?

Does anyone realize that any number of authors and screenwriters could do a better job of designing this plot?

I want to know if they ever called in any of their legal staff to ask what kind of trouble they could get in or how to skirt it - assuming that what we're learning is the truth.

Could Tenet have been fired (which it seems he was) because he did something to prevent Plame and Brewster Jennings from being exposed?

Could Ashcroft have left because he allowed the Special Investigator to be named? (I know, that's a long and wild one.)

Is it possible to know just who was on the flight?

I wonder if the go ahead was given over the phone from AF1.

We need to know exactly how Bolotn and his people were involved in this - because of the looming vote.

Are any of these people protected from civil or criminal lawsuits besides Bush and Cheney?

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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. Has Powell testified before the Grand Jury? eom
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Good question....
:shrug:
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #29
42. Yes. 7/16/04
According to the timeline at dKosopedia.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
53. interesting and 2 days later Ari quits
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 03:15 PM by maddezmom
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
31. Reminder: John Bolton was a State Department official at the time
and was exactly the kind of WMD nutter that Judy Miller would use as a source.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
33. What really eats me up is when journalists cry for Miller and the others
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 09:44 AM by higher class
cry about their diminished chances for gaining information if journalists are forced to reveal their sources. THIS CASE IS DIFFERENT. THE JOURNALISTS INVOLVED ARE TOOLS AND WILLING PARTICIPANTS.

In this situation, they are not a third party working with their editor to expose some wrong to the people.

In this situation, they are participants in the wrong against the American people.

Wrongdoer: Government officials
Journalists: Co-conspirators in an overt act, depending on their degree of participation.

Do not let the journalists get away with this. If they truly believe what they are saying, they don't have a molecule of patriotism. Then, many of them continue their unpatriotic role by lying for the administration by spreading talking points that deflect, cover-up, and spread further lies.

Those journalists must stop trying to mislead about their role.

There should be a law about talking point lies. We treat it too lightly; dismiss it too quickly. We only a allow for a flash of derision.
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suegeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
35. Kokal
Edited on Sat Jul-16-05 10:36 AM by suegeo
I wonder if the death of a State dept. guy named Kokal (SP?) is somehow involved.

In November, about 6 months after the douche bag for liberty Novak outed a CIA operative, Kokal got shoved off the roof of a federal office building in D.C. (OK, so maybe it was Rove or someone higher who outed Ms. Wilson, not Novak.)

Kokal was working specifically on WMDs during the disgusting marketing blitz for the invasion of Iraq.

The un-trustworthy media painted it as a suicide. They claimed he was upset because someone was fucking around with his security clearance.

Who the hell knows what is going on anymore? I just know my government is not trustworthy, and thousands of serfs and peasants are dead.

And no handsome prosecutor from Chicago can help me feel less uneasy and make me trust those in authority again.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. WOW!!! I didn't know the guy was working on WMDs, too.
:wow: I remember the weird incident (he takes off his shoes and jacket before jumping,...oh, yeah :eyes:).

So, a WMD guy in the UK suicides himself and another WMD guy in the US suicides himself, too? YIKES!!!
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Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #35
46. Don't forget the Brit, Kelly
who wrote in an email to Judith Miller of "dark actors." That guy was also a WMD expert for the British government. "Suicide," of course.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
41. does Anybody know the names of the Reporters on AF1
when Colin Powell had her file or memo on Airforce One!!!

and isn't there rules about taking Top Secret stuff out of Washington

and having these documents within eye and hearing view???

I know Bush Colin Powell Ari Fleischer and Conid were on that plane anybody else???
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
47. kick
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Memo Is a Focus of CIA Leak Probe
Memo Is a Focus of CIA Leak Probe

By Mike Allen and Jim VandeHei
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, July 16, 2005; Page A06

Federal prosecutors investigating the leak of former CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity have asked several witnesses in the case whether they read a State Department memorandum mentioning her that circulated inside the Bush administration in the days before she was publicly named, according to people familiar with the testimony.

FBI agents showed the State Department memo to several witnesses during the interviews over the past two years, according to lawyers in the case, in an effort to determine whether it was the source of information about Plame's role at the CIA. A key mystery in the leak case is how senior administration officials first learned of Plame's identity and her relationship to a key critic of President Bush's Iraq policy, before her name appeared in news reports.

Lawyers familiar with the testimony of White House senior adviser Karl Rove said he has admitted discussing Plame, though not by name, but said he learned of her role from a reporter. Several legal sources said the prosecution has shown strong interest in the State Department memo, which circulated on Air Force One during the Africa trip -- just days before Plame's name was made public in a column by Robert D. Novak.
<snip>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071600087.html
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Wow...looks like Powell may have spilled the beans
Federal prosecutors are investigating whether then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, who was on the Africa trip with Bush, carried with him a memo containing information on Plame, as well as other intelligence about allegations made by Wilson.

According to people involved in the case, prosecutors believe that a printout of memo was in the front of Air Force One during a July 7-12 trip Bush took to Africa, but investigators are unsure who reviewed or obtained copies of it. One of the earliest moves by special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald, signaling his aggressive stance, was to get the grand jury to subpoena Air Force One phone logs from the trip, the sources said. Newsweek reported in August 2004 that Powell's testimony before the grand jury focused, in part, on the memo.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. according to a person who has seen it. Administration officials circulated
According to people involved in the case, prosecutors believe that a printout of memo was in the front of Air Force One during a July 7-12 trip Bush took to Africa, but investigators are unsure who reviewed or obtained copies of it. One of the earliest moves by special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald, signaling his aggressive stance, was to get the grand jury to subpoena Air Force One phone logs from the trip, the sources said. Newsweek reported in August 2004 that Powell's testimony before the grand jury focused, in part, on the memo.

The memo "identifies her as having selected or recommended her husband" for the Niger assignment, according to a person who has seen it. Administration officials circulated this information as a way of discrediting the reliability of Wilson's charges.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071600087.html
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Hapameli Donating Member (449 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Memo memo mo memos
Recommended
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #50
57. And conterfeit of memos.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-16-05 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
56. So much smoke being thrown up = thruth behind the door.
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