Low-income schools lack top teachers

[Judi Lynn]

July 17, 2005, 12:36AM

Low-income schools lack top teachers
Researcher says that, most often, the best-qualified educators teach in affluent areas
By JASON SPENCER
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

Fort Bend ISD students lucky enough to live in the upscale neighborhoods surrounding Clements or Elkins high schools have some of the most qualified teachers within the seven-county Houston area.

But their counterparts growing up in the poorer Fort Bend County communities that feed into Willowridge and George Bush high schools are left with teachers who are less experienced, uncertified in the subjects they're supposed to teach, and more likely to leave for other jobs.

The disparity in teacher quality in the Fort Bend Independent School District is typical at most of the middle and high schools throughout the seven-county Houston area, according to recent research compiled by University of Texas researcher Edward Fuller.
Fuller's findings quantify the commonly held notion that the state's best teachers work in the most affluent schools, leaving less-qualified educators to teach low-income students. And the schools with the least-qualified teachers typically struggle the most on the tests that are used to label schools as successes or failures.

"Principals hire the best they can get," said Fuller, whose research specializes in teacher hiring and retention. "The problem is sometimes the best they can get isn't very good."
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3269333
(Free registration required)

[postulater]

1. I know some teachers in low-income schools

and they are some of the most dedicated souls you could imagine. Maybe they are not as "qualified" BECAUSE they don't get paid enough to become more qualified.

One of these teachers, who recently retired in disgust after over twenty years in the public system told me she fears for out future. She says the abilities and social skills of the elementary children have been more rapidly declining every year. So after years of having parents swear at her, kids beat her up and steal her purse, she just called it quits. She's probably going to go work at a department store.

I'm sure some of the teachers on DU will have opinions on this too.

[iconoclastic cat]

7. Yep. The same thing is happening in Chicago.

My city's "worst in the nation" school system is falling apart at the seams. I just finished a grad course, and the elementary education teachers told me storied that would stand your hair on end. We're talking Mad Max levels of insanity among little kids and their parents.

Why did I go to college, again? Anyone? Bueller?

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Because you like kids?

or thought you did? LOL

[iconoclastic cat]

20. Oh, I do love kids. What is happening to American culture, however,

is freaking me out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. Me too

And I deal with it by concentrating on MY class and MY school. That is where I can make a difference. I alone cannot change society. But I have lots of control over the community in my classroom.

[iconoclastic cat]

29. Yeah, that's a good way to go. If I am hired by school, I'll try that.

I actually took a great classroom management course this summer. I hope I have a chance to use it. I would love to give it another shot.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. I am so glad to hear that

I really think that if you stick it out, you will learn to love it. It is so incredibly rewarding.

[iconoclastic cat]

34. Well, last year was my first year, and when it went well, it was great.

That, however, did not happen very often.

I must clarify, however, that the majority of my problems were with the administration and fellow teachers, not the students and parents.

[Yupster]

66. Every teacher's first year was a disaster

This year will be much better.

Problems that caused you hours of worrty last year will be handled with a wink this year.

My department head gave me great advice my first year. She said don't even try to learn from it. Just survive it and next year will be better.

It was much better.

Best wishes.

[barb162]

27. A friend of mine has been teaching in inner city HS for years now.

He said the coke babies are impossible to teach; they have an attention span of about 3 seconds. He took karate to protect himself. He is on the south side of Chicago and said there is no learning going on any more. He teaches physics and was a very dedicated teacher for many years. Most of the kids he gets in his classes can hardly read or do basic math skills. He keeps dumbing down his classes more and more. Years ago, he said there was real learning in the inner city

[iconoclastic cat]

32. I don't have any evidence that the "coke baby" phenomenon is real,

but I can verify that there are many, many kids at all levels who do seem to be utterly unable to cope in a contemporary classroom environment. That's not just on the south side: the west and north sides are experiencing the same thing. The Chicago Public Schools are headed for an implosion. I can't help but wonder if there was a design behind all of this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. No, research indicates that there really is no such thing as a coke baby

and gawd, how I hate that term!

What the best research showed is that drug exposed babies are definitely able to be rescued from the effects of drugs in the womb, especially cocaine. Environment has a far greater effect on future learning than the drugs Mom took while pregnant.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is far more dangerous. FAS is usually permanent and very devastating. But we aren't reminded of that near as often as we are told about crack babies. GRRR!!

[barb162]

39. My friend said he can tell a coke kid in a few minutes. He was

teaching in the inner city for 20+ years the last time I talked to him. Trying to teach physics of all things to kids who don't have basic reading skills, couldn't add and subtract, etc. He said when the coke kids started getting into high school several years back, well, he was ready to quit so many times I can't tell you. I bet he is gladly retired now. He wanted to be transferred to a school where the kids were capable of learning and the school system wanted to keep him where he was. He was so disgusted it wasn't funny. He said "You know, there was real learning going on in our high school." (Referencing the city high school we attended.) He had that far away look on his face....

"utterly unable to cope"
I think this is because of the parents, plain and simple.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. Your friend is misinformed

The whole coke/crack baby theme was a huge myth created to excuse kids who chose not to learn and teachers who don't want to work hard enough to figure out how to make kids want to learn. It also excuses parents from forcing their kids to cooperate and try to learn.

I am not saying your friend does not have a legitimate complaint or that he is not a hard worker. But using that term 'coke/crack baby' is really unfair. Yes, there are reasons kids misbehave and reasons parents don't support us like they should. Labeling kids as crack babies just gives us a reason to quit trying to teach them.

[donco6]

46. Yes, and I would wonder . . .

. . . if trying to teach physics isn't working, why keep doing it? I mean, really? Perhaps the whole thing needs to be re-thought and approached from a different angle.

We've had high school science teachers who simply would NOT change the way they teach science. They wouldn't HEAR of trying to integrate it into a thematic unit, or try to make it more relavant to kids with an expedition. Nope, if they can't learn it the old way it ain't happening, and it isn't MY FAULT. Blah blah.

Our district is about 50% Free/Reduced. In our switch to small high schools, one adopted Expeditionary Learning as it's pedagogy. They chose to study pollution in the Platte River valley. They studied the politics of water, visited city council meetings where they discussed water rights upstream versus downstream, and studied the contaminants in a chemistry unit. I evaluated one kid's presentation on the learning, and it was very good - not perfect, but a far sight better than most I've seen. And this kid would look to most of you like some gang-banger, and here he was talking about water shares and how you can buy and trade them and how pollutants in the water affect amphibians first . . . on and on.

It can be done, I truly believe. But we can't keep doing it the same old way. That's just lunacy!

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. Kids who are smart enough to take Physics in high school

are also smart enough to know how to behave, I would think. :eyes:

Have you seen any of the amusement park Physics? It is really neat. The kids study the rides and apply Physics principles.

HANDS ON LEARNING!! Get out from behind those lecterns and INVOLVE the kids, instead of lecturing to them. That alone would solve a lot of teachers' problems, IMO. It certainly has made a difference in our elementary schools. (And my district is close to 90% free/reduced.)

[donco6]

48. Absolutely.

I have my degree in science ed, and if I saw something wasn't working, I would try ANYTHING to make it work! I have seen that amusement park physics and it's wonderful. There are a lot of other programs, too, though, that have been around even longer - it's just that people won't do them!

I had one unit where we worked with the social studies teacher who was studying the medieval times. We built trebuchets and other types of propulsion weapons and measured the distance and arc and calculated the velocity - all physics, physics - classic. And they were SO into it.

[CGrantt57]

8. Yup, you got that right...

You want talent, you have to pay for it.

Every other occupation in American knows this and runs itself by it.

But, teaching?

Hell, every dimbulb who spent 5 minutes in a classroom and couldn't find his or her ass with both hands and a flashlight thinks they're qualified to teach.

My favorite?

The father who told his kid: "Hell, son. That teacher don't know nothing."

As long as we continue to regard teachers as glorified babysitters so mommy and daddy can go make a buck, education will always suck in the United States.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I am a teacher in a low income school

and I am highly qualified (under NCLB:) ). So are 90% of my colleagues.

Articles like this are just bullshit. Sure we have incompetents among us in education. But there are also imcompetent doctors, lawyers and accountants. There are even incompetent employees at convenience stores. But we aren't talking about them, now are we? :)

[iconoclastic cat]

23. Damn right!

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Glad you agree

articles like this piss me off more than I can say. What we do for a living is hard enough, we don't need average Joe out there convinced we are incompetent fools who couldn't find jobs anywhere else.

[Iowa]

56. Good posts proud2Blib...

I think a lot of this nonsense is pushed by the privatization crowd. As a government professional I saw this all the time. Step one is always this: demonize front-line staff. They do it to teachers and they do it to other government employees. Don't let the bastards get you down. They are liars with an agenda.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. Thanks Iowa

I won't play Pollyanna and say things are perfect. But our public schools are a whole lot better than most folks realize, especially our 'inner city' schools. I see excellence in mine every single day. But no one wants to discuss the positives.

And yes, I agree, a lot of this negative is coming from the voucher crowd.

[lapislzi]

60. But...that's the perception...

You KNOW the average idiot thinks we can't survive in the "real world."

Now, how do we counter that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

63. Well, I email a local reporter regularly

and I call the TV stations. All we can do is fight back the negative publicity. I have been contacting the media for so long now that some call me when they want a quote on a local education story. So I gather I have earned their respect.

As far as what the average idiot thinks, they are grossly misinformed. I have the respect and admiration of my family and my friends. That means more to me than what the average idiot who doesn't even know me thinks.

My cousin is a doctor - an anesthesiologist. She actually saves lives for a living. And when I saw her a few weeks ago, she told me she greatly admires what I do for a living, that there is no way she could do it. That meant more to me than I can even describe. I watched her work her way through med school and couldn't begin to relate to how hard it was. I can't even imagine holding someone's life in my hands. But she admires ME. WOW, just WOW.

[barb162]

30. I am not sure it is the teachers. My friend has a masters in physics

and is a long time teacher in Chicago. I known he's a good teacher but the kids he's getting in his classes are drugged out, messed up delinquents who would just as soon stab him as sit there and open a book.He took a lot of martial arts courses to defend himself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. And the administrators allow that?

Does your friend have a cell phone? Calling the cops when kids are violent goes a long way toward getting the administrators' attention that the kids are out of control. Just sayin - it's easier to try to solve the problem than to get stressed out and complain about it. And if your friend's students realize he is burned out and thinks they are violent and out of control, then that is exactly the way they will behave.

[cmd]

2. And if the best teachers available taught there

the results could be similar. In many low income schools the teacher must spend vast amounts of time doing policing and social service activities. Poverty is a mean part of education. Vast amounts of money need to be spent in these schools to bring the class sizes down below recommended sizes so that the teacher has time to address the multitude of issues the students bring to the classroom.

[krkaufman]

6. Agreed. Well said. n/t

[postulater]

11. And the parents need to have jobs too

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel lead editorial today is about the horrific homicide rate in Milwaukee this year, on pace for tieing the nine year high.

It says that 59% of the black males 16 and older are unemployed.

How can a kid have a decent adult male role model if the father feels like a waste product of our society?

[dsc]

3. I am a highly qualified teacher

based on my Masters degree from Ole Miss. Even if I had taken education classes as an undergraduate I would still not be highly qualified without that Masters. Bluntly speaking, that Masters didn't do much in regards to my teaching ability. I got the math ability as an undergrad and the other parts of teaching came with experience.

This is not to say that there are no unqualified teachers or that it is impossible to measure quality. But, it is to say that we aren't using great measures. I have taught in many a high school. I can count on one hand the number of high school math teachers I found whose problem was a lack of math knowledge.

The only place where I really believe there are masses of unqualifed teachers due to lack of subject matter knowledge is middle school and late elementary school. I do think that there should be a requirement that those children are taught mathematics by people who have a proven knowledge of mathematics.

It is a problem for urban schools to keep faculty. Losing experienced teachers is a bad thing and in large districts with senority based transfers the worst schools will get the newest teachers. A school needs a mix of teachers. Some new to bring in the latest pedadogy and some experienced to bring in real life adaptations of pedadogy.

Bottomline though, is that teachers can only do so much. Much of the difference between rich and poor districts can be explained by the loss of skills over the summers being more pronounced in poor districts than in rich ones.

[Catfight]

5. I always thought if teachers had their tuition paid off from college by

working in low-income schools, that the system would get better. Instead of vouchers for kids, make teacher vouchers, if a newly graduated teacher chooses to work in a low income school then the student loans would be waived, however, the teacher would maybe have to work there three years at most. That way it would encourage highly educated teachers to work in those areas, increase knowledge in those poor districts and waive student loan burdens to offset the difference in pay for teachers.
As far as violence on teachers, that should be zero tolerance in all public schools. Meaning, the kid should then be expelled, the parent of the child should be fined, and both child and parent should have to go through a series of anger management until the child could return to school. The parent should have the burden of the child's poor behavior and education if they are going to be violent in school.
As far as parents swearing and threatening teachers, again, zero tolerance. The offense of the parents should be in line with a firing in a corporation, put the parent on warning, if the parent or parents insist on berating a teacher, explain that the repercussions will hurt the child and the child can be expelled for the parents threat to a teacher.
Also, I really think there should be year round school. Our children are not so stressed out they need to have two to three months to play. Just like a corporation, have a three week vacation time for children that the parents can use anytime and allow for the teachers to have the same amount of vacation anytime during the year.
Start running schools like they are teaching facilities instead of grown up babysitting centers while the parents work.

[donco6]

14. I can't think of how many federal laws this would break.

"Tuition paid for working in low-income schools" Actually, this is already done through several programs. You can earn credit toward any government-sponsored student loans for teaching in schools with a certain free/reduced lunch percentage.

"Zero tolerance for violence" Well, if the kid is special ed, and the violence is due to his handicapping condition, the best you can hope for is that they'll move him to a residential child care facility and get him out of your hair. Of course, this costs about $40,000 per school year even in the CHEAPEST facility, which the parent can challenge. In fact, here in Colorado, a district just lost a case and now has to pay $200,000/yr to send an autistic kid to NE to boarding school. We only get about 40% reimbursement for this, and there's a cap on THAT. So at worst, the kid will still be there waiting for you tomorrow.

"Zero tolerance for parent swearing". Good luck. It's illegal to mete out punishment on a child because of the actions of a parent. A child CANNOT be expelled for the actions of a parent, period.

"Year round school". In my district, for each day added to the teacher contract (currently 186 days) it's about $88,000, before benefits (and we only have about 330 teachers). That's around two beginning teachers. To get to a year round calendar, with three weeks vacation, you're talking adding 60 days or so. Obviously, this is financially impossible. Plus, I don't think anyone could teach that many days without completely cracking up. It truly is not an 8-hour day.

[dsc]

55. simply changing when breaks happen would help

2 months on with 3 weeks off repeated 4 times would work around the same as what we do now. That would cut down the size of the largest break and help retain knowledge.

[donco6]

58. Yes.

But that's not what the original poster was talking about. She wants true, bonafide, year-round school "like the corporations do".

Your model is being used in many places already. We have some schools moving to it now. The only problem is that parents get upset when ALL of their kids schools are not synchronized with each other. That's hard to do - especially in a small district like mine.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. We had those!!

I graduated from college in the late 70s and my student loans were forgiven because I taught in low-income schools. 10 or 20% of the balance was written off every year I taught.

At some point, that loan program was done away with. Now the feds are trying to get it back, especially to fill vacancies in Math, Science and special ed.

[cmd]

51. I had NDEA loans

10% of the loan was forgiven each year that I taught for five years. It was a blessing. I only had to pay back half of the loan at a time when my salary was higher.

National Defense Education Act
 
 
(NDEA), federal legislation passed in 1958 providing aid to education in the United States at all levels, public and private. NDEA was instituted primarily to stimulate the advancement of education in science, mathematics, and modern foreign languages; but it has also provided aid in other areas, including technical education, area studies, geography, English as a second language, counseling and guidance, school libraries and librarianship, and educational media centers. The act provides institutions of higher education with 90% of capital funds for low-interest loans to students. NDEA also gives federal support for improvement and change in elementary and secondary education. The act contains statutory prohibitions of federal direction, supervision, or control over the curriculum, program of instruction, administration, or personnel of any educational institution.

http://www.bartleby.com/65/na/NatlDefe.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. You high school math teachers are going to have to accept the fact

that we have drastically changed the way we teach Math in the elementary school. And we have raising test scores to prove we are on the right tract. You can either get on our bandwagon or continue to complain while high school test scores drop.

Sorry to be so blunt. But this is one of my pet issues. I am sick and tired of fighting high school teachers over this. We just spent three months re-writing our Math curriculum and 95% of the teachers who volunteered to work on it were elementary teachers. We cannot force drag the high school teachers to work with us. We cannot force them to take PD classes and learn about new Math curriculum. We cannot force them to read Marilyn Burns and Kim Sutton and TERC research to understand what the changes in teaching Math entail. But the funny thing is we weren't forced either. We wanted to learn how to do it better because the old methods were not working.

This Math revolution started over 15 years ago. It's way past time for high school teachers to join us.

[dsc]

53. That isn't what I meant

I was referring to some of the following. I have subbed in many an elementary and middle school before and have witnessed:

teachers who couldn't take a percent
teachers giving students incorrect answers to problems
teachers giving students incorrect methods of solving problems
teachers who left math until the end of the day due to "not liking math"

and yes, I could go on.

As to test scores I will refer you to the daily howler to tell you what I think of those. Some of what teachers are doing below us works well but others don't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Well you never subbed in my classroom or in my school

and all those things teachers were supposedly unable to do can be recognized (and remediated) via competency tests and professional development. Simple solutions.

As for testing kids, I assess my students continually with authentic assessment. And I can assure you that they are indeed learning and retaining more, especially in Math. At the end of the year, my 4th and 5th grade special ed kids were finding the circumpherence of a circle. I didn't learn how to do that until high school. And I wasn't in special ed. So yes, we are doing a much better job of teaching Math in the elementary school.

[dsc]

65. On some things yes and on others no

I think that students are much better on probability and geometry than they were when I was in school but vastly worse on computation. It is simply appalling how bad even mid to high level students are at basic computation if you take away the calculators. It is a decidedly mixed bag.

[barb162]

33. In some districts like Chicago the senior teachers couldn't

transfer out of inner city if they were not the race of the inner city. Chicago was sending black teachers to white area schools and vice versa.

[dsc]

54. wow I never heard of that

racially balancing teachers. I didn't know they were doing that.

[teach1st]

4. The link sends one to a different story...

Here's the link to the education story:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/3268555

[Judi Lynn]

10. Thanks for providing the correct link. Very embarrassed here.... n/t

[napi21]

9. Hasn't it always been that the "better schools" were in the wealthy

neighborhoods? I know, growing up in Pgh. Pa. that the schools whith the best reputations were always in the wealthier neighborhoods, and I'm sure it has to do with the higher RE taxes paid ther, so they pay their teachers more.

I sure can't fault any teacher for trying for a job where they would be paid more $ to do the same work.

Isn't it the same with colleges? An education from Harvard, or Yale is viewed as being better than one from, say, The University of Pgh.

I certainly believe there should be minimum standards that must be met by EVERY teacher, and in EVERY school, but I think we're fighting a loosing battle to say all schools should be equal. It's never going to happen.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. That is not true everywhere

The low income district where I work has the best pay scale in our area.

[YvonneCa]

12. I teach in a low-income school...

...and I have to tell you that, while you can find unqualified teachers in any district, the majority of teachers who work in these districts are not only highly qualified, but they are probably the most dedicated group of professionals you will find in any school. It takes commitment to the children, a high level of energy and endurance and GREAT teaching capacity to teach, motivate and support the kids in schools like these...and almost every teacher I have met in 20+ years of working in educating low-income children has these qualities or they wouldn't still be doing this very difficult job. It would be, for most of us, much easier to seek out a different teaching situation, or give up and go to something else. I know that the stats are that something like 50% of new teachers (with 5 or less years experience) do so. It is our commitment to the children, to the communities in which we work, and to the goals of improving education and providing educational equity that pushes us to do our best each day to improve these schools. It is time to stop beating up on teachers without really knowing what is going on!!!!!:patriot:

[donco6]

16. I'm in central administration for a low-income district,

and I can echo exactly what you're saying. I know our teachers work harder than most others. They're constantly at training sessions. They are way ahead of their peers on differentiating instruction for the non-English speaker versus the special ed kid versus the boys versus the girls, etc. etc. I'd bet we could switch staffs with Cherry Creek (a high income school down the road) and you see performance gains at Cherry Creek that they wouldn't believe. And our teachers would be going, "what? I just did what I do every day . . . ?"

I'm not blaming it on the kids, but I am saying there is a difference in teaching low income versus high. It's just flat out harder.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. The only teachers that can last in a low income area

are the best. We are at the top of our field. It is extremely disingenuous to imply that poor kids always have poor teachers.

[barb162]

36. Several of my classmates became teachers in the inner city

and they got really tired of having chairs thrown at their heads and having their tires slashed. They were brilliant and dedicated teachers

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I have done this for 25 years

and I have never had a chair thrown at my head. My tires have never been slashed either.

[barb162]

40. It was happening often in Chicago

Heard it too many times from too many different teachers in inner city Chicago with whom I went to high school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. So are you saying no one should work there?

Then the kids will do what? Roam the streets?

As a teacher, I can assure you that the first time any kid dares to throw a chair at me, I will whip out my cell phone and call 911 before that chair lands. And if my property is damaged while on school grounds, I will file a police report and expect the district to assume some responsibility. My urban district does have a fund that pays insurance deductibles for employees whose property is damaged. I would imagine Chicago has a similar fund, If not, the teachers should demand it. (That is how we got our district to do this.) We also have security guards AND police officers on duty in all of our high schools. I teach in an elementary school and I feel very safe at school.

How strong is the teachers union in Chicago? Sounds like they have some work to do.

[barb162]

57. I have no idea how strong the union is

"So are you saying no one should work there?" How do you derive this question from what I wrote.

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. There are all these reasons the schools are terrible

Teachers have chairs thrown at them, their cars are damaged, etc. Why would anyone want to work in that kind of environment? What would any parent want their kids to go to school there?

Surely there are SOME positives. Maybe we could focus on them instead of the constant negatives. That's all I'm sayin.

[donco6]

59. In nine years in urban Denver . . .

. . . I've heard from one teacher who had his car keyed. I've never heard of a kid throwing a chair, though I suppose it could have happened. If it did, he was suspended and expelled. We don't put up with that crap here.

[VegasWolf]

17. 1 out of 10 American teenagers can't identify the US on a world globe.nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. And you know that from where?

How about a link?

[donco6]

42. You're watching too much Jay Leno. eom

[Judi Lynn]

45. I heard that only a few days ago, also. It didn't seem possible!

Looked for a link to refresh memory, couldn't find one quickly, but found this older, similar one:

An NSF survey in 1997 showed that one in 7 American adults--about 25
million people--can not locate the USA on an unlabeled world map.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7695/SCHOOLS.HTM

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. 1997 was 8 years ago

by my calendar. But then again, I am just a poor teacher in a poor school so maybe I also have a poor calendar :eyes:

[donco6]

52. New Study: 1 in 2 DUers can't tell ass from hole in ground.

And it's not me.

[rocktivity]

21. Runner up for this month's "You Call This NEWS?" award

What higher-income schools can to offer to teachers is something that lower-income schools cannot--HIGHER INCOMES, DUH!!!

:headbang:
rocknation

[donco6]

41. Not necessarily.

Teacher salaries are negotiated with a districtwide bargaining unit. There is a common salary schedule for all schools within a district - sometimes they are even set statewide. So just because you teach in a low-income school (low-income means the STUDENTS come from low-incomes), the teachers may actually be paid at or above the district average.

With that said, what usually happens is that in the same negotiated agreement, the teachers may transfer from one building to another based on seniority. Often, teachers transfer out of low-income schools to higher-income schools where they perceive the grass is greener (it may or may not be). So they are replaced by new teachers who are lower on the salary schedule. So when you see average salaries, you often see lower overall salaries because of the lack of seniority and experience at lower-income schools.

[dsc]

67. actually it is as much working conditions as salary

Most big city districts have reasonably competative salaries and some actually pay more than their suburbs. But the working conditions in the suburbs are often vastly better.

[HockeyMom]

50. My daughter wants to teach in NYC

There is a program where she can do her student teaching anywhere in NYC (non NYC resident) and they will pay all her expenses - tuition to room/board. There is another where if a new teacher (with Bachelor's/Certification) agrees to teach in a low income school in NYC for 3 years, the state will pay for their Master's Degree. My older daughter's friend did this.

[Placebo]

68. This is news...to who?