Judge Narrows Pledge of Allegiance Lawsuit (Newdow)

[Charlie Brown]

http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1065132&tw=wn_wire_story

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- An atheist who convinced a federal appeals court three years ago that the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance are unconstitutional returned to court Monday and made his case a second time.

Michael Newdow, a doctor and lawyer, is suing four Sacramento-area school districts on behalf several atheist children and their families. The U.S. Supreme Court dismissed his first case last year, saying he lacked standing to bring it on behalf of his elementary-aged daughter because he did not have custody of her.

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton indicated that he planned to block Newdow from having the pledge itself and the words "under God" declared unconstitutional. His lawsuit instead would focus strictly on whether reciting the pledge in public schools is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, meaning Newdow could still have the pledge barred from schools if he prevails in the long-shot effort.

[napi21]

1. Oh man. Why doesn't this guy focus his efforts on something that

really matters?

If you don't want to say "Under God" in the pledge, then just don't say it!

If think nut doesn't like the pledge at all, just what would please him?

I don't see a problem with saying the pledge in the classroom, a ball game or anywhere else. If you don't like it, just don't participate.

I think it's disgusting that he's using his daughter to push his political efforts forward. I hope the SCOTUS finally makes a difinative decision so Michael will go back under his rock!

[LeftyMom]

3. Because kids can't be expected to opt out

of a concerted effort to indoctrinate them? :shrug:

[jonnyblitz]

4. he is a hero to me for doing this and it is sad

that you don't understand why this is important.

[HockeyMom]

5. 14 year old Wiccan boy

In the middle school where I was a TA, the Admin. used to say the Pledge over the PA system. The class would just stand. If they wanted to say it, they did. If they didn't, they were silent.

There was one boy in the class who was Wiccan. His parents were well known in the community for their views. The boy would excuse himself to the lavatory every morning when the pledge came on. He would say, "I am a Wiccan. I don't pledge to your god." Then he would leave.

As one boy in the class (99% agreed with this) put it, "Cool, that he stands up for what he believes in."

[jonnyblitz]

6. he shouldn't have to feel the need to have to leave to begin with.

i just dont understand why these pushy xian ASS -FUCKING-HOLES just can't keep it in church.

[Iowa]

11. I agree with jonnyblitz...

And I'm a Christian (Catholic). There are at least two reasons I can think of to keep religious expression out of the public schools:

1. The government, via the schools or any other organization, shouldn't be forcing religion upon anyone, especially little kids. First there's the matter of compassion: no child should be made to feel uncomfortable, different, or isolated because of their beliefs. It is tantamount to coercion. But there's also the matter of our freedom: if we sit back and allow the state to push religion - they may one day choose to suppress it.

2. The fundies want to push their brand of religion on my kids. They are aggressive, ruthless, and they have political clout. If they get a toe-hold in the schools they'll continue to ramp it up until the public schools have mandatory classes covering the works of Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson - and science will be suppressed (hell, it already is suppressed!). I don't want anyone else's brand of religion crammed down my kids' throats. The fundies have already trashed our government and it will take us decades to recoup. I don't want them trashing our schools too. If ever there was a time to draw a line in the sand - this is it.

Religious expression does NOT belong in the public schools.

[noamnety]

8. I fully support what he's doing

I wish I would have had a parent like that back when I was shoved in front of the classroom as a small child and forced to recite the whole thing on my own in front of the entire class, as punishment for keeping quiet on those two little words.

I was horrified that I was singled out as being different from everyone else.

As a teacher, I am so glad that my school dropped the pledge at assemblies last year. I felt like I had to "be a role model" and loudly say the pledge to set a good example ... but I'm not sure how proclaiming faith in something I don't believe in sets the best example for my students.

It's not just a problem for the children; it's a problem for teachers who are expected to lead their class in saying the pledge. My religious beliefs shouldn't be in the classroom at all, in my opinion - but if I am quiet on those words, kids will ask why, and I will have to explain I'm an athiest.

Using part of a mandatory school day, and using public employees, to advance any religion is inappropriate.

[mike_c]

10. I think this matters, and I support what he's doing....

eom

[msongs]

2. yes, let's just change the words to "under allah", might be fun n/t

[katsy]

7. hmmmm...

let's change it every month:

Under buddha, allah, zeus...

I admire this man for taking a stand and fighting for his belief. I happen to share his opinion.

Besides... the original pledge had no "under god" in it.

[really annoyed]

9. If we keep the Pledge

There has to be an exemption for children who do not believe in the Christian god - because "One Nation Under God" only applies to ONE specific god - the Christian one.

I know in some states, you are REQUIRED to say the Pledge, no matter what.

I doubt the fundies would agree to reverting back to the original Pledge - you know, the one written by a Baptist minister. I think that would be fair for all children.

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.'

Or is that just TOO secular and politically correct? It wasn't for Francis Bellamy - the Knights of Columbus (a Catholic group) added "Under God."

Mr. Bellary objected to changes made in his Pledge by anti-immigration groups - "my flag" got changed to "'the Flag of the United States of America."

[tblue37]

16. Jehovah's Witnesses are also not permitted by their

religion to say the pledge. There are documented cases of JW's being beaten and otherwise abused because they would not say the Pledge.

I am an agnostic, but my sis and her kids are JW's. The kids caught a lot of flack in school for not saying the pledge. I don't think such indoctrination belongs in the school at all.

(Someday I will tell you in detail about the time my 11th-grade homeroom teacher stood me in front of the whole class and berated me because I worked on Easter Sunday instead of going to church. He was also pretty nasty to the only Jewish girl in the class. Keep religion and coerced pledges out of the schools, damn it. They will be abused. That is a certainty!)

[really annoyed]

18. Yes, I remember in elementary school

We had a Jehovah's Witness who never stood for the Pledge. Our teacher was kind and tolerant enough (one of my favorite teachers of all time) to let him explain to the class why he didn't stand. He proudly stood up for his beliefs, as should non-believers.

[livinginphotographs]

12. I didn't like it when he was using his daughter as an excuse

And I say this as an atheist. I was concerned about his daughter being ostracized because of her father standing up for this. But if he's got multiple families he's representing, good.

I wholly support his idea that "under god" should be removed, and as someone who was raised an atheist, I know first hand how ridiculous the assertion that "if you don't like it you can leave" is. Middle-school age kids are absolutely not going to go up against their peers to prove a point, and would rather just sit uncomfortably while being preached to about a god they don't believe in. Shit, I actually had a teacher call me a Communist in front of the whole class because she knew I didn't believe in god. When you're twelve, are you really supposed to stand up to that?

I hope Mr. Newdow is successful so that no kid who is either atheist or is simply not a christian will not have to go through all that shit anymore.

Despite the misconception that atheists want to convert everyone to Satanism or some such shit, most of us just want to be left alone.

[DearAbby]

13. I was one of those children that stood in the hall before lunch

when the prayer was said. I was singled out at an early age and it followed me throughout my school years. I was just not one of them and they showed me this each and every day. Imagine what that felt like?

I know this has to do with the pledge and not school prayer. I firmly believe that Religious expressions in a public school setting is WRONG. I applaud this man for his courage.

[Sub Atomic]

14. i used to do that as well

but i ended up with this version:

"God is great, God is good. Let us spank him for our food. Amen."

And that I would say. Every single day.

[Old Vet]

15. Mr Newdow is one of the sharpest minds.................

If you haven't heard him debate you would be surprised, At the information recall he has. Better have your stuff together if you match wits with him. Its also been rumored that his wife received alot of funds from right-wing interests, But I cant prove that.

[rexcat]

17. The pledge should be rolled back to pre-1954 in its...

original form where "god" was not mentioned. I support Mr. Newdow 100%.