Treaty gives CIA powers over Irish citizens

[corksean]

US INVESTIGATORS, including CIA agents, will be allowed interrogate Irish citizens on Irish soil in total secrecy, under an agreement signed between Ireland and the US last week.

Suspects will also have to give testimony and allow property to be searched and seized even if what the suspect is accused of is not a crime in Ireland.

snip..

Although the Department of Justice insists that the arrangement merely updates existing agreements, it goes much further. The US may ask Irish authorities:

To track down people in Ireland.

Transfer prisoners in Irish custody to the US.

Carry out searches and seize evidence on behalf of the US Government.

It also allows US authorities access to an Irish suspect's confidential bank information. The Irish authorities must keep all these activities secret if asked to do so by the US.

The person who will request co-operation is US Attorney General Alberto Gonzales...

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ireland/Full_Story/did-sg46g7Ks0cvBEsg7OWirIStPSk.asp

Seems like we Irish may be about to get a taste of what you have to put up with...

[greatauntoftriplets]

1. And they won't like that one bit....

Since the people of Ireland are antiwar...despite their government's aid and comfort to the US.

[annabanana]

2. Oh Dear...

I am SO sorry, Ireland..If this were given any publicity here, I expect that it wouldn't sit very well with the Sons and Daughters of Eire who've made the US their home.

I wonder how many other countries have similar "pacts" with us that we just don't know about?

[shadowknows69]

23. it's almost getting to be that time

I don't want to go out in a Russo-China sponsored nuclear fireball. Could someone loan me a match for my torch? My pitchfork is loaded. Who is with me?

[Cha]

26. Me.

Fuckers!

[shadowknows69]

27. Why can't anyone in power

stand up to this shit. we don't have the moral right to be playing this game. I'm fucking ashamed of my country and I wan't it back.

[StrafingMoose]

29. Refusing this = CIA bombing your country.

With Rumsfeld's P2OG. Hands up! :(

[katty]

59. Ireland start makin' friends w/Russia

[elehhhhna]

94. make that China...

[Trevelyan]

84. The "New" Al Que da Website was traced to Maryland and owned by a Jon

Davidson - I think was the name, anyway site pointed out not an Arab Name and this Jon also had porn sites and sites in the state of Texas. The site person wrote that all Arab websites in America had been taken down after 911. Was a young Computer Expert who traced the "New" Al Que da site to Maryland and the site was scrubbed after he reported the location that the new Al Qua da was transmitting from.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Alex Jones of InfoWars.com and PrisonPlanet.com has been right about a lot of things including the date 911 and what was to happen from his contacts, he claims no psychic ability whatever. Worth checking his sites to find out more about who is responsible for the London bombings.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet | July 15 2005

We received an e mail from an employee of Stagecoach, the company responsible for the majority of London buses.

Our contact works a route roughly one mile from the site of the bus bombing last Thursday.

The bus driver pointed out that the number 30 bus was the only one to be re-routed after the initial bombs went off in the London Underground, every other bus carried on its normal journey, but for some reason this bus was diverted.

The driver notes the following about CCTV maintenance.

"CCTV gets maintained at least 2 or 3 times a week and can digitally store up to 2 whole weeks worth of footage. this is done by a private contractor....So when I heard that the CCTV wasn't working on a vehicle that's no more than 2 years old since last June.....I'm sorry that's rubbish, I work for the company I know different."

Also a point of interest....last saturday a contractor came to inspect the CCTV on the buses at the depot, According to my supervisor the person spent more than 20 hours over that weekend, 20 hours to see if the CCTV is working? Also that person who came was not a regular contractor, for security reasons the same few people always come to the depot to carry out work, this time it was different.

Drivers in the depot already think the so called bombers had inside help because it was to organized. Some even think it had help from the company."

I have received other information suggesting that the CCTV is regularly maintained and checked. The police pay the bus company to check it, and the bus company makes a substantial profit out of this, so all parties benefit from keeping the CCTV systems working.

This information makes it all the more suspicious that the bus cameras were not working.

Was the mammoth 20 hour inspection session of the CCTV a means of disabling the CCTV, or something even darker? Were the contractors, who were not familiar to the bus company employees, actually placing the bomb?

But don't worry, the media are drooling over this picture of supposed suicide bomber Hasib Hussain, who we are told detonated the bus bomb.

Well, it's a grainy picture of a Muslim guy with a rucksack, case closed! That's good enough evidence for me, I'm going back to sleep.

It's beyond doubt that these four Muslims were framed. They were most likely hired as MI6 spies, sent to Pakistan and then brought back and told they were to take part in an important exercise to test national security. Give them the rucksacks, get them on the trains and then detonate the bombs remotely.

Do you really believe for a second that guys with 8 month babies and guys who taught disabled schoolchildren would want to blow themselves up and kill other innocent people?

Related: Staging the London Bombings in Ten Easy Steps

Related: London Bombing Archive
London Bombings Data Page

London Underground Bombing 'Exercises' Took Place at Same Time as Real Attack

New Developments In London Underground Exercise Story

London Underground Exercises and the Magically Exploding Terrorists: Important Questions

Staging the London Bombings in Ten Easy Steps

Exercises: Peter Power responds

London Patsies: A Replay Of The Pristine 9/11 Passport

The Convenient Malfunction Of The London Bus Camera

Londoners Suspicious Of Station Closures Before Blasts

Explosive used in bombs 'was of military origin'

A Warning To The World

Video: Bombing Exercises In London Underground

[MemphisTiger]

3. The third step in our quest of world domination

Mwuhahhahahhaha, mwuhahahahahahah

[symbolman]

4. Weird

I always thought the Irish had been enslaved by the British, are the Brits now giving up their ownership of my brothers in Ireland to the USA?

My Mother's maiden name was Larrigan and this is a complete outrage to me, and I'm an american, a very embarrassed american at times.

I had actually thought of fleeing to Ireland with my little family - apparently there was some law on the books that if you had someone of Irish descent within one generation you could become a citizen of Ireland - I thought of giving up my citzenship here to be free of the coming tryanny of our new Police State for the Industry.

Looks like that's no longer an option, not that I commit crimes, but that I'm both an artist and a political activist, and the artists and writers are the first one they come after when they want to own the Public at large.

You have my sympathy my friend, I hope I have yours - we've both had our countries stolen out from under our feet while we believe in Justice and Peace.

Does this mean that Irish reporters are no longer allowed to force Bush into making even more of a fool of himself by asking direct and honest questions?

Some Irish gal about a year ago cornered Bush in about 30 seconds of questioning, can't remember now who it was, but it was a thing of beauty.

I will continue the fight to expose these crooks, so our CIA won't be abused by Bush, nor our countrymen.

Keep the wind at your back, and the sun on your face :)

[Cha]

28. I remember that Irish reporter.

We were all so impressed by her..

<<snip>>
"Does the Bush administration retaliate against reporters who don’t play nice with the White House? Well, let’s just say that Carol Coleman, the Washington correspondent for the Irish television network RTE, won’t be interviewing President Bush again anytime soon -- or ever, for that matter.

In an interview timed to coincide with Bush’s visit to Ireland over the weekend, the veteran reporter questioned the president aggressively about the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the subsequent occupation, interrupting him several times during the 11-minute exhange."


More of the story..
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8061

[fooj]

76. Symbolman...beautifully said!

"Keep the wind at your back, and the sun on your face.":patriot:

Peace.

[Betty88]

89. FYI

Just to let you know you are already an Irish citizen. You can have both an Irish passport and a US one. I also looked into this a while ago.

[whatelseisnew]

90. You might want to look into the citizenship option

I know someone who obtained Irish citizenship because his grandfather was Irish. He now has dual citizenship- US & Irish.

[Jara sang]

5. I believe I know why this is happening.

I've heard that Al Qaeda was recruiting Irish women to be terrorist's "mules" so to speak. Apparently what they are doing is targeting Irish women who aren't all that physically attractive and that have low self esteem. The Al Qaeda operative wines & dines the unsophisticated Irish woman and flies them all over Europe as their girlfriends. This is in preparation for when the woman will fly say to New York or some other location in the U.S. with a suitcase full of explosives. All of this being done with out the Irish woman's knowledge. Al Qaeda is doing this supposedly because they know that U.S inspection officials red flag Middle Easterners and Muslims. But a woman with red hair and blue eyes can cruise on by the inspectors.

[CountAllVotes]

8. where did you hear/read this?

I heard nothing about this. As for the security ignoring the Irish, that is NOT TRUE. I had a real nightmare of a time traveling to and from Ireland (to say the very least!) but I don't have red hair and blue eyes.

Furthermore, the paper I reference that I read a week ago this past Sunday mentioned that they are now planning to have ID cards in Ireland just like the plan for England and here too.

In essense, the entire world is screwed.

As for recruiting innocent young red haired women - :wtf: is all I can say. You should have a source of some sort before posting a statement that says something like this.


Source: Re: Irish ID cards from the Sunday Business Post of July 10, 2005 (mentions al-Queda possible link):

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/07/10/story6360.asp


:kick:

[Jara sang]

12. Living in Washington D.C.

You hear things.

[tuckessee]

21. All I hear out of Washington is.....

....lies and more lies with lots of propaganda, half-truths, hysteria and innuendo thrown in for good measure.

A talking toadstool should have more credibility than most in DC, especiallly if they are from the administration or the military/intelligence/security fields.

[katty]

60. d.c. busy screwin' each other,america and the world

[shadowknows69]

25. probably a purer form of propaganda

is all you hear living in DC. Irish Al-Quaida women huh? I've dated Irish women. I'd be scared for the terrorist trying to fuck one over.

[Henny Penny]

50. lol

:rofl:

[Rich Hunt]

63. really.

What a fanciful tale.

[brainshrub]

92. I've never heard this before.

It sounds like the plot of a 3rd-rate spy novel.

[CountAllVotes]

6. I was in Ireland last week

and I read the Sunday paper and the headline said something about Al Queda links in Ireland. I read more of this story and it said something about 50 persons possibly. One thing is for certain, no one is exempt from this "war of terror", not even the Emerald Isle. :(

Do I believe it? NO is my answer.

:kick:

[neweurope]

11. I don't believe it, either. Since the Bushistas started

their "war on terror" - i. e. the war for world domination - all of a sudden there are supposedly Al Qaida links all over the world. As if the Irish, the French, the German etc. intelligence have been sound asleep all these years. I don't believe it or one minute.

But even IF I did believe it: Changing a law because of 50 people?! That's insane. I'm quite sure that there are enough laws already to convict and punish somebody who is a terrorist.

And as usual they will be saying: Oh, this applies only to TERRORISTS. And the people will be noncaring and silent because they are no "terrorists". Until it's their time.

----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[CountAllVotes]

13. see my edited link above

This is the paper I was READING that mentioned the al-Queda link(s) and also that the plan is now in the works for ID cards for Irish citizens.

You "hear" many things in Washington, D.C. btw. Fact or fiction, who knows?


From the Sunday Business Post of July 10, 2005:

<< “These are serious matters, and issues such as whether the nationalist population in Northern Ireland want to have British ID cards, whether the Irish state would provide them with alternative cards and whether the two systems would be integrated are ones where considerable discussion and thinking have yet to be done.”

The minister said he was considering the issue.

Meanwhile, more than 50 Islamic extremists with links to al-Qaeda and fundamentalist Iraqi groups have been identified by the Garda Siochána. These activists and another 200 supporters are under increased surveillance following the London bombings.

The Garda Middle East Section has been overhauled in the last year, with a dedicated unit now operating with specialist skills, including a working knowledge of Arabic dialects. >>

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/07/10/story6360.asp

:kick:

[Henny Penny]

51. If the authorities want it.... it is very easy to convict a terrorist

in Ireland as there is no jury in these cases... just judges.

Presumably the CIA think thats not good enough because the system doesn't allow for torturing the suspect in gitmo or somewhere similar.

[Trevelyan]

85. Britain has Belmarsh which is as bad as Gitmo, on the Cageprisoners.com

site run by Arabs in the UK, it is heartbreaking to read the forums.

One man who was let out of Belmarsh said that many of the brothers were thinking of suicide and some have been driven quite mad by the torture and were not thinking in a right way since Islam forbids suicide.

There are letter writers in Britain who got the 4 "detainees" at Gitmo released and the attorney for two of them said in interview with Amy Goodman that Blair did nothing to help, it was citizens and it took the British Secret Service 48 hours to find out these four men were not guilty and the Americans took 3 years.

This attorney said she had a theory that since the CIA has been "disappearing" people for many decades that Gitmo was a test to see if the world would allow it and she was depressed and said it looked like they were going to allow it.

Cageprisoners.com shows a small photo in on homepage of men in cages the size an animal would be in - I thought the cages referred to were the kennel like chained fences you see - they ask "We are human beings so why do you put us in cages like dogs?"

One of the American Iranian hostages of the Carter Administration has a touching quote on the down loadable flyers on Cageprisoners.com and this site also has some address with the letters not names that Belmarsh sometimes lets letters through, Gitmo is more iffy and I wonder if one of the activism things in the future might be a mass mailing to the unnamed prisoners at Gitmo - sending cards, letters, care packages, etc. from Americans not just British citizens.

A Scottish preacher living in America before the Soviet Union fell had prayer cards with the name, photo and information on the arrest of Soviet Dissidents and sometimes an address to contact them and even a few hundred letters and care packages from Americans caused some of these victims of the Soviet Gulag to be released according to the newsletter with a memorable photo of a dissident in prison with letters and some items from care packages spread out over his cot.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/23/191537/954How (4.00 / 12)

is his life linked to the "war on terror"? So odd.... kind of gives me the willies.

Check out the Easter Egg Hunt

the Easter egg hunt at Gitmo -- in the issue of the Gazette that has his memorial service announcement (in the diary). Something surreal about it. (PDF file - slow load) Hard to remember there are families and children there.
O8) ;( :cry:

[Rich Hunt]

64. uh-huh, not surprised

Some gossipmongers are fond of slandering the Irish, along with Irish Americans who live in urban enclaves, as "terrorists" or at least tacit supporters of "terrorism".

And don't anyone try to deny it, because I have had people either gossip about my family that way.

[meganmonkey]

7. Damn!

:wtf:

[neweurope]

9. An EU country - wonder when they'll sign similar "agreements"

with Germany and the rest of EU - or if they have already and just are not telling? What the fuck is wrong with the Irish authorities - "Suspects will also have to give testimony and allow property to be searched and seized even if what the suspect is accused of is not a crime in Ireland." and "The Irish authorities must keep all these activities secret if asked to do so by the US." That's what bothers me most.Not that the rest doesn't bother me - transferring one's authority to another country is crazy at best.


-------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[CountAllVotes]

15. I believe the deal was "cut" so to speak ...

before July 10, 2005 immediately after the London bombings. It is always very handy to point the finger at the Irish when anything goes wrong in England. I even heard while I was in Ireland that they were trying to blame the London attacks on Sinn Féin immediately after they happenend. That story was later "dumped" I noticed. :wtf: I ask?

:kick:

[northzax]

22. gee, why would anyone immediately think of ireland

when things blow up in London? like people immediately thought of basques in Madrid?

naw, Irish folk would never blow anything up in london...

and hey, Good job to the Bush administration! Why bother invading when you can just get them to hand you the keys? it's much cheaper.

by the way, anyone know if this is reciprocal?

[Henny Penny]

52. Our minister for "justice" is a right wing spineless twit...

who thinks nothing of signing away the rights of others.

[rooboy]

10. At least the good news is...

with Karl Rove and his buddies running free, everyone will surely find out who the CIA agents are with plenty of warning ;)

[rodeodance]

14. BushCo sure has managed to scare the shit out of these countries--to

agree to such a treaty!!!!!!!!!

[havocmom]

16. If anyone could find a silver lining in this, it would be rooboy!

That's the spirit, mate. Now I see why my daughter loves OZ so much ;)

[DemBones DemBones]

72. Good point

and funny, too, in a sick way. ;-)

[havocmom]

17. Theory of corporate take over of the world is not a tin hat & tie affair?

Gee, my worst fears were not bad enough. Not only will there be no national borders in the real world, more damn spooks will be globe trotting.

I keep telling people, there are no nations anymore. Maybe some day they will stop laughing at me.

[Karenina]

31. You are quite correct.

They won't be laughing much longer.

[wli]

78. it's why the WTO protests are so savagely put down

The future is the corporate police state. Guns and money are enough to keep repressive regimes in power. Democracy is the aberration.

[cubschicago]

18. I don't see how Fianna Fail will stay in power

This is pure bullshit.

[formercia]

19. I can see the point of what they are trying to do, but

Ireland, being a neutral country has good relations with many Islamic States and Irish citizens can travel at will without much scrutiny. Having a treaty with the US like this, regardless of its limited intended scope, is bound to have repercussions on innocent Irish citizens, who might now be seen as US collaborators.

[Henny Penny]

20. Oh my God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I cannot believe that those fu*&^%rs have done this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wonder what Myers was up to.....

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Solly Mack]

24. So much for being sovereign

Bow down before America! Sheesh...

[bennywhale]

30. The US government with the acquiescence of others is beginnign to create

a new reality regarding soveriegnty which is very scary.

[Henny Penny]

54. They "are an empire now and they create their own reality"...

The govt here has tried to slip this in while everyone was on holiday but anyone I've mentioned it to is furious....

we can kick up a stink and delay things, but in the long term what can we do????

I can see this ending up with US bases to "protect us from terra..." and of course, control the atlantic.

[bennywhale]

65. Their reach extends to every corner of the globe

In England there is fylingdales listenign centre and a lot more. I'm not sure if itsa actually possible for any one country to refuse an American request anymore. They are so powerful it would be suicide in terms of trade and geo-politics.

Thats why i'm passionate EU

[Henny Penny]

67. remember what happened to that poor old guy that went

to SA for a holiday and he had the same name as some criminal. The CIA got the South Africans to detain him for weeks.... and there was no come back.

Think about that poor kid today in the UK who had his picture plastered all over the world's news as "one of the London bombers"...

If the alleged bombers hadn't all died who knows where that kid would have ended up.

None of us are safe.

edited to add further paranoia.... aaahhhh!!!!!!!!

[Pale_Rider]

32. Treaty gives CIA powers over Irish citizens

Treaty gives CIA powers over Irish citizens

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ireland/Full_Story/did-sg46g7Ks0cvBEsg7OWirIStPSk.asp

US INVESTIGATORS, including CIA agents, will be allowed interrogate Irish citizens on Irish soil in total secrecy, under an agreement signed between Ireland and the US last week.

Suspects will also have to give testimony and allow property to be searched and seized even if what the suspect is accused of is not a crime in Ireland.

Under 'instruments of agreement' signed last week by Justice Minister Michael McDowell, Ireland and the US pledged mutual co-operation in the investigation of criminal activity. It is primarily designed to assist America's so-called 'war on terror' in the wake of the September 11 atrocities.

The deal was condemned yesterday by the Irish Council for Civil Liberties (ICCL) as "an appalling signal of how the rights of Irish citizens are considered by the minister when engaging in international relations". The ICCL said it appeared to go far beyond even what has been agreed between EU countries.

<snip> ...

ICCL director Aisling Reidy said: "An extraordinary aspect to this treaty is, despite its scope and its potential to violate basic constitutional and human rights, that all this happened without debate or transparency.

"To agree to give such powers to a government which has allowed detention of its own citizens without access to a lawyer for over a year, which has legitimised Guantanamo Bay and the interrogation techniques there, without public debate, is an appalling signal of how highly or not the rights of Irish citizens are considered by the minister when engaging in international relations."


Well there's goes any hope of fleeing to Ireland and requesting asylum ...

[Anarcho-Socialist]

33. Wow, that is insane

[Julius Civitatus]

34. The entire world is our Gitmo!

It certainly is starting to look that way. A Guantanamo planet, where the Bush regime steps on civil and human rights.

[Ravenseye]

35. Is it both ways?

Can the Irish secret police (if there is such a thing) search and sieze my property even if I've committed no crime in the U.S.

[LisaM]

36. Do they think the Irish people are going to put up with this?

This might be a serious mis-calculation on the part of the Irish government.

[sinkingfeeling]

37. How the hell did the Irish people allow this to happen? Get out

my soon to be country, CIA.

[Teaser]

41. An bhfuil Gaeilge agat?

I hope so!

[SteppingRazor]

38. When has the Irish government ever cared about the rights of its citizens?

As a concerned Irish American, I keep up on Irish politics pretty well. What I read disgusts me more often than not. Were it not for Eire's history of neutrality, they'd no doubt be mired in Chickenhawkistan (i.e. Iraq) right along with us. Abortion is illegal there -- hell so is contraception, though the law isn't enforced.

[Teaser]

43. You been following the attempt

to build a road over Tara? Talk about not listening to what the public wants.

[Henny Penny]

68. Abortion is still illegal thanx to our hypocritical and spineless govt.

but they do allow us contraception :-)

[Donkeyboy75]

70. Henny,

I haven't heard a word about this in the media here. Have you?

On edit: Nevermind. Just read about it in the Examiner.

[Henny Penny]

79. Hi Donkeyboy... RTE did make a by the way sort of ref to it

yesterday when they mentioned that the Irish Human Rights Commission are going to look into it.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0721/cia.html

And that is the only ref to it I have seen on rte!

[Donkeyboy75]

95. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

McDowell is denying that the CIA can interrogate Irish citizens. Guess we'll see. :hi:

[Henny Penny]

96. Yes. I look forward to seeing the details....

McDowell couldn't stand up to the Vintners association re cafe/bars the other day, so I'm not too sanguine at the thought of our fate resting in his jelly-like grasp!

Lets just hope its not a case of shutting the stable door...!

:toast:

[Donkeyboy75]

97. To be fair,

I never did understand the logic of his cafe bar proposal. But that's just me. It always smelled like he wanted to offer a different solution than his rivals.

[bennywhale]

100. What's the situation with that group from Western Ireland who were jailed

for refusing a comulsory purchase order of their land for a gas pipeline by a MNC?

Do you know anything of it?

[Henny Penny]

102. It looks like a grass roots campaign that is really

gathering momentum.

They are still in prison but...

The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Noel Dempsey, has said he believes Shell may have breached the terms of the permissions given to it in relation to the development of the controversial pipeline in Co Mayo.

The Minister said Dept officials had carried out an inspection at the site earlier this week and subject to further legal advice, it was his view that a breach of the consents given to Shell in relation to the pipeline had occurred.

He said a letter had been written to the company asking them to respond to this and he was regarding the matter as 'very serious'.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0723/mayo.html

There was also a very good article in couterpunch about it last week.

http://www.counterpunch.com/browne07162005.html

[KansDem]

39. What ever happened to the English-Speaking, White Guys Treaty?

I remember years ago reading about a treaty stating that the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand would not spy on one another without written permission. Now I read that we can interrogate Irish citizens secretly and on their soil?

This is indeed maddening!

edited for spelling

[Kagemusha]

40. Who ever said it included Ireland.

No one, that's who.

[KansDem]

47. Hmmmm. I see your point.

Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom, so it would not be covered under the ESWG treaty.

[Teaser]

58. "English speaking"

hopefully not for long.

[mbperrin]

42. So...are the Irish now part of I'll Kidya

or what???!!

(Although you must admit, a country without snakes is damn suspicious -after all, our Congress is filled with 'em!)

[Teaser]

44. Is the snakes thing still true

Someone's pets must have escaped into the wild by now...

[mbperrin]

48. Hey, none of those Congress critters are MY PET!

(I know what you mean, just couldn't resist!) ;)

[demo dutch]

45. Wow pretty shocking, we're looking at one police state around the world!

This may only be the beginning!

[Patty Diana]

46. Earlier Thread on BUSH DECLARES WAR ON IRELAND

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1642550

[KamaAina]

49. And all this time I thought Canada was going to be the 51st state

52nd, if you count New Texas (formerly Iraq).

Where's a freedom-loving left libertarian supposed to go? Space?!

[Zhade]

69. Nope. PNAC is claiming that region, too.

NT!

[MisterP]

53. I believe * authorized other intel agencies--Mossad and, I think, MI6--to

kill U.S. citizens. This was quite a while ago (some loons here were saying this was actually a GOOD thing and we should thank Mossad for assassination...)

[gulfcoastliberal]

55. New Zealand sounds better and better

I'm giving serious thought to moving abroad in the next year or 2. I don't want to live in Europe; things like this reinforce why Europe is a bad idea. No offense to europhiles.

[nwliberalkiwi]

66. New Zealand Great Country

We just came back from N.Z. and we will be going back permanently after family business. Screw Amerika---we have given up on the dead Amerikan dream!

[Up2Late]

56. This is CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!! WTF?

This almost sounds like a bad joke, are you sure this is a credible story? :wtf:

I've never heard of "The Irish Examiner," you sure this isn't a Tinfoil Hat story?:tinfoilhat:

[corksean]

62. The Irish Examiner used to be the "Cork Examiner", a regional paper

About two years ago it went nationwide and has since been steadily picking up a good share of the market.
I've been reading in in both incarnations all my life, and it's far and away the best and most progressive over here. Since going national it's changed it's style and become very similar to the Guardian in the UK. (http://www.guardian.co.uk).
Definitely a reliable source.

[Up2Late]

73. That's good to know, I'm a big fan of The Guardian, even if it is...

...English.

Ya see, my Grandmother was from County Cork. Worked in the Mills as a Girl, before she came to America around 1920.

Here's to the Irish :toast:

Hey, have a Guinness for me! :beer:

[bennywhale]

101. You read the Guardian "...even though its English..."

Why the "even though" is there something inherently wrong with being english? or being an English paper?

[converted_democrat]

57. Well, I guess that means Ireland is off the list of my places to live,

if things get worse here in the U.S. I guess my family will have to choose between Australia and New Zealand.

[HannibalBarca]

61. Hell...

...I'm Irish and living in Dublin and had no idea about this. It's not surprising though, our prime minister would bend over backwards to please Bush, the Irish economy is very dependant on US companies, as with many things in life its all about the benjamins.

[Pale_Rider]

71. At least Ireland's Human Rights Commission will do some sort of a probe ..

Human Rights Commission to probe CIA agreement

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=150153492&p=y5xy54y98

The Irish Human Rights Commission is to examine an agreement which will allow CIA agents to secretly question Irish citizens on Irish soil, it emerged today.

The bilateral instruments, signed by Minister for Justice Michael McDowell and the US Ambassador to Ireland James C Kenny last week, provide for sweeping powers to be given to the US authorities on request, including the right to seize documents, check bank accounts and carry out searches of property.

The Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) said it would be examining the agreement, which was drawn up to assist the US “war on terror” in the wake of September 11.

“When we establish the facts, we will be looking to see if there are any implications for breaches of human rights,” said president Dr Maurice Manning.

He said that one of the IHRC’s functions was to examine any proposed legislation for breaches of human rights.

[silverweb]

74. Welcome to...

AmeriKa's World Police Force.

I'm so ashamed of my government!

[ngGale]

75. With ya on this one, I'm totally humiliated ...

and afraid because it does look like we are taking over the world.
Guess that will teach them not be good to w - :blush: :scared:

[EFerrari]

77. We are not taking over anything. We were the first ones

colonised by the Cabal. They are simply extending their reach. It's confusing because they do it in our name, something else they've stolen.

[Tripmann]

80. Sent the newspaper link....

...around to my mates in the Irish Civil Service. NOBODY had any idea this had happened. And the civil services job would have been to present this to the oireachtas for scrutiny. Also, I'm in Dublin, and none of my friends or family had heard about it either!

Very very fishy.....


Tripmann

[Henny Penny]

81. You are right! The American people didn't vote for this! n/t

[Trevelyan]

82. Bushistas Going After Honorable Deserters from Committing Atrocities on

Innocent Iraqis and their children. I had read that most of the US soldiers who were fed up with being asked to rape, torture, pillage, create concentration camps by putting razor sharp barbed wire around remote Iraqi villages, the lack of armor and other basics were for the most part welcomed in Ireland.

Canada had a refugee court for soldiers who did not want to participate in Bushco atrocities. Someone thought Canada was collecting evidence for the International War Crimes Court then Canada said it would not accept any more US soldiers who do not want to commit crimes against humanity. Guess Canada doesn't want any "London" bombings in their cities.

The White Rose.com, UK version states that Bush has forced through the measurement of pupils for any Brit wanting to come to the US and White Rose gives statistics on the failures of this testing and they are furious that the British version of the Patriot Act has been passed sneakily, piecemeal like in America with their media not mentioning it.

Read on Rep. Conyers blog that the ICC was indicting 6 or so British Warrant Officers (equivalent to Generals for murdering the Iraqis/Arabs who were in British prisons in Iraq. Blair is afraid. The Guardian wrote that Blair should not be running for any office but in prison for his war crimes.

The UK does not elect it's Prime Minister directly but the majority party who votes on who is to be Prime Minister. The Labor Party lost 100 seats and the only reason they retained their majority is that they promised they would oust Blair ASAP and possibly put in Treasury Chancellor Brown who has steadfastly stood up to Blair and refused to trade the British Pound for the Euro.

The London bombings are in retaliation for the Downing Street Memos and to prevent Blair from being arrested by the ICC for War Crimes once he is out of office. Both Bush and Blair are salivating to declare Martial Law.

Any ideas on how to stop this madness? Do the leaks mean that that part of the CIA who asked for a Special Prosecutor for the outing of Plame and who may be behind some of the negative Bush leaks like Gannongate and the Pentagon officials who keep saying in the MSM that Bush is breaking the best fighting force in the world might take action?

The more noise we make, the more Bilderberg and American law enforcement and military see they have grounds to arrest Cheney and Bush.:grr: :grr: :grr: :mad:

[Henny Penny]

83. This might be the kind of thing you are thinking of....

A group of activists, including several of the 'Pitstop Ploughshares' who face trial next month for their 'disarmament' of a US Navy plane in 2003, have called for American military war resisters to seek official refuge while their planes refuel and they are let wander through the lounges of this relatively small civilian airport.

ie Shannon airport.
and...

The invitation for some of these troops effectively to desert comes from members of the Irish parliament and even a former Irish army commandant, Ed Horgan -- who made it clear he wouldn't make such a suggestion lightly. And those making the call realise that it is not abstract rhetoric: it is estimated that more than 5,500 soldiers have left their 'duties' in the current wars, including highly publicised cases like the imprisoned Camilio Mejia, the exiled Jeremy Hinzman (seeking refuge in Canada) and Kevin Benderman, seeking conscientious-objector status after 10 years in the army because of what he witnessed on his first tour of duty in Iraq.

and...

The activists are working to ensure that the 'invitation' to Ireland becomes widely known among US soldiers -- and that Irish officials at Shannon Airport perform as the law requires them to do in giving individuals the right to have their asylum claims heard. Any soldiers who do make a claim will find a supportive network of legal and logistical support in Ireland.

http://www.counterpunch.org/browne02082005.html

[Trevelyan]

87. Thank you for the link Henny Penny, I had only read a sentence or two on

2 or 3 postings about the very large number of US troops who do not want to be Bush's Storm Troopers being welcomed to live in Ireland and that they were obtaining help setting up new lives there.

I'm Scotch-Irish through my paternal grandmother but my father spoke more about his Greek father so feel more Greek - I wonder what the political situation is now in Greece?

So many people left the US during the first Bush term, Parade magazine answered a question saying celebrities just wanted to live in Europe and used bush as an excuse. Just after the SHOCK AND AWE of Kerry's unconditional surrender on November 5, 2004, so many people said they were getting out while there is still time that Michael Moore and others said to stay and fight, run for office yourself. Reminds me of books about just before The Russian Revolution and Hitler's rise to power (helped by Prescott bush), people got out while they could but at least some of the ones who left sent money to those left behind to make possible THE RESISTANCE.

With the Patriot Act II passed by stealth in other legislation and the Congress voting 100% for the National ID (except for 3 Republicans in the House) after the Cessna buzzed Washington, DC - Cessna = Welstoned, JFK, Jr.'s murder (read Interpol report on CloakandDagger.de), the so-called Saudi hijackers responsible for flying huge airplanes into the Pentagon and World Trade Center supposedly learned to fly on Cessnas. The Congress got the message.

Even Conyers and Kennedy voted for the National ID in a late night session after the Cessna "went off course" and Nancy Pelosi was snatched out of her shoes by the Secret Service, didn't find it a bit funny that the ones supposedly guarding Congress are suspect.

How long, Oh Lord, how long?

I think we all need to find some spiritual way to combat this horror. It really is predicted in the Bible, esp. The Book of Revelations. 7thFire.com has similar legends as the 7th Seal and is both a political anti-Bush, anti-New World Order with articles with extensive footnotes and my new favorite:
http://www.hermes-press.com/Perennial_Tradition/

with in-depth articles on esoteric Christianity and anti-Bush articles - the homepage has bush burning a large Social Security card.


Even HereInReality.com with some very harsh articles about the bush crime family crimes has a link to a more traditional Christian site. I am a Christian but I think that a lot of Eastern philosophy, Tai Chi spirituality fits in with the more mystical passages in the Bible which the traditionalists and fundamentalists never touch, esp. to do with healing. Tikkum Olam, the Jewish sites to do with healing the world are also interesting and Shalom.com.

Someone wrote on Smirking Chimp.com that people with children between 18 and 35 will not be allowed to leave the country. Don't know if it's too late but someone else wrote there is no place to go so may as well stand and fight. Australia has a conservative government and troops in Iraq.

Just as we don't let the conservatives take over the flag or concern for the young soldiers any more, don't let the fundies turn you off any spirituality. This is looking more and more like spiritual warfare and I agree with Richard Gere that concentration of purpose will bring results.

[brainshrub]

93. Rape?

I haven't heard that. Pillage, torture and kill: Yes. Rape, no.

[Algorem]

86. McDowell refutes CIA interrogation claims

http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/ireland/Full_Story/did-sgIl1dKUIWP9csgdL11Zs5FWAE.asp

22/07/05

By Harry McGee, Political Editor

JUSTICE Minister Michael McDowell yesterday rejected an assertion that CIA operatives would have the power to come to Ireland to interrogate people in secret.

As the Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) confirmed it intends to examine the Agreement on Mutual Legal Assistance between the US and Ireland, Mr McDowell issued a detailed and emphatic rebuttal of yesterday’s article in the Irish Examiner.

The agreement, signed by Mr McDowell and US Ambassador James Kenny last week, will give both countries extensive powers to discover documents, conduct searches and search bank accounts in each other’s jurisdiction.

Under its terms, US law-enforcement agencies, including the FBI, will be allowed to have questions put to witnesses and suspects resident in Ireland as part of investigations or criminal prosecutions...

[Trevelyan]

88. Just as "Bibi" Netanyahu was warned about the London bombings but it was

later denied by the official officials but a number of people had done screen captures of the news reports on the Israelis being warned.

I think someone on this site wrote to keep your TIVOs going, that now is the time BushCo will be making mistakes in public statements as they have done so often in the past esp. about 911.:think:

[Henny Penny]

91. Well a detailed rebuttal is a start.... though none of the detail

is included in this article....

I'm with Joe Costelloe:

“The implications should be teased out. There is serious concern with American respect for human rights in recent times. There are fundamental issues that need to be clarified,” he said.

A major understatement IMHO.

[Karenina]

98. Kick!

:kick:

[roguevalley]

99. WTF? I am so sorry about this. Remember. No surrender. By the

way, I love your country.