NYPD Begins Bag Searches In Subway After More Explosions Rock London

[brooklynite]

July 21, 2005

Security on New York City subways has been tightened again following a bombing in London on the two-week anniversary of the deadly bombings earlier this month.

... snip ...

In New York City, officials have announced that police have begun randomly searching subway passengers carrying bags or backpacks, and may be conducting similar searches aboard city buses.

"It might slow individuals down, but we will do it in a reasonable way," said Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly at a press conference with Mayor Michael Bloomberg shortly after noon.

Kelly said that ideally, straphangers will be searched before they pass through the turnstiles, although they could also be searched once inside the system.

http://ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=52265

[Goldmund]

1. Say they find some pot in your bag

Would they let you go because it's not a bomb...?

Edit: if not, that seems to fit "unlawful search and seisure".

[candy]

2. Or cigarettes w/o a tax stamp---lots of them around.

[wookie294]

9. Yes, they will arrest you

Cops can arrest people anytime they view illegal items, even if they were looking for something else.

[LifeDuringWartime]

10. not if there's a warrant involved

which there won't be in these cases

[wookie294]

19. Cops don't need a warrant to arrest you for carrying pot

[High Plains]

20. They should need one to search your bag, though

Ah, Fourth Amendment, so long, old friend.

[TahitiNut]

12. Prophylactic searches SHOULD have implicit use immunity.

Disclaimer: IANAL

While the legal rationale underlying such searches is "implied consent" (just like breath analyzers), the overriding impetus is "public welfare" focusing specifically on direct threats to life and safety. Thus, the "fruits" of such searches SHOULD be limited solely to such items as bombs and other devices (bio-chem) that pose a direct, immediate, and severe threat to life and safety. Other proscribed items such as child porn, narcotics, or swag from a robbery should be procedurally eliminated as evidence under an implicit "use immunity" under the principles of prohibited self-incrimination.

[daleo]

34. That makes sense.

One doubts that law enforcement would like to pass up a lot of easy arrests for minor pot possessions and the like, though.

[Maven]

3. This is useless.

Think about how many people pack onto the Shuttle alone during rush hour.

[brooklynite]

7. I was traveling around all week...

with my totebag, a laptop case and a portable projector case, ALL with ries and cbles, not to mention a laser pointer. Would have been a delight to go through.

[Odonata]

4. This is how the "terrorists" succeed nt

[henslee]

38. bingo

[bluetrain]

5. Random searches aren't going to stop bombs from getting in the tunnels

it'll just make everyone on the trains even pissier.

[shantipriya]

6. NYPD and subway searches

It is so sad !!!!.Alas,we have become a Police State.

[Autumn Colors]

8. Searching bags isn't going to help much

if anyone has a bomb strapped around their body and not in a bag.

[Mandate My Ass]

11. True, there are many ways to smuggle a bomb somewhere

and if they're not suicide bombers I'd think there are plenty of ways to plant one in the tunnels. Once they know bags are being searched they'll adapt, it's what terrorists do.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[TahitiNut]

13. Well, it's to eliminate the reasons they hate us, don'tcha know?

If they "hate us for our freedoms," then we should get rid of our freedoms, right?

:sarcasm: <-- did anyone really need to be told?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. yup...nope

[KamaAina]

14. This is the beginning of the end of public transportation as we know it

Eventually it will take longer to get through all this security than the actual train ride itself will take. This is already the case at some airports for short-haul flights.

I can't imagine how New Yorkers will shop under this regime. If some item isn't available within walking distance (and in my old neighborhood it seldom was), they're supposed to do what, shell out five or ten bucks for a cab?

Try this on for size. Imagine if there had been a spate of car bombings overseas, and the Port Authority announced it would start pulling cars over at random heading into the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels. Talk radio would be ablaze with talk of "jackbooted thugs" and the like. They'd never get away with it.

I guess subway and bus riders are second-class citizens. Even in New York. :scared:

[Laughing Mirror]

15. It's all for show

Paris did the same thing in the Metro after their bomb attack 10 years ago. The operation was called Vigipirate. It is still in effect, I believe, ten years later, although much more low-key, conducted in a less menacing manner.

Vigipirate consisted of all kinds of riot police, soldiers and national guardsmen strutting up and down the platforms and stations, their weapons at the ready, just in case you were the one.

Everytime I walked down those steps into the station to get on that damn train to go to the gym, there they were going through my backpack. Same thing when I would leave the gym and go home. There they were going through my bag once again, calling in my ID to headquarters just to make sure I wasn't the one.

It happened all the time. One specific incident: Much ado was made when they found a black tube bicycle pump in my backpack. A pipe bomb surely!

I got tired of this constant harrassment. I stopped using the Metro. I walked or rode my bicycle, with my backsack on my back, and nobody bothered me anymore.

Maybe the presence of brute force in the underground makes some people feel comfortable, going to and fro about town, going about their business. It doesn't me.

[fryguy]

17. might be for show

but its a total violation of citizen's rights of privacy and shouldn't be permitted.

[fryguy]

16. what's next? boarding troops in our homes?

well if they're going to trample on the Constitution they might has well stomp right across it.....

[KamaAina]

18. The hell of it is, I wasn't afraid to ride the subway before

because of the terrorists -- but now I will be, because of the Gestapo.

I'm going up there at the end of Sept. I guess I won't be carrying any bags anywhere outside Mom's immediate neighborhood.

[SteppingRazor]

21. This is NOT a Fourth Amendment violation

I hate the idea of this as much as the next person, but they've made sure to say that there will be no racial profiling and that the searches are completely voluntary -- you can refuse to be searched, but then you can't get on the subway. Since the search is voluntary, it doesn't violate Fourth Amendment.

[High Plains]

22. How nice. Give up your rights or give up your subway

Yeah, these searches are real "voluntary." People can volunteer to get fucked around for insisting on their rights.

[SteppingRazor]

23. Exactly.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying taking this to court over its constitutionality is a losing battle.

[BronxBoy]

37. Were you around during the Giulani era?

No racial profiling my a**.

The NYPD is probably salivating over this.

[SteppingRazor]

40. Yeah, I know it's crap...

My point is that someone has to document the racial profiling, or the harassment upon attempting to leave the station with an unsearched bag, and THEN take it to court. Any preemptive measure is doomed to failure and, once it sets a precedent, it will make future suits after-the-fact all the more difficult.

[upoceg]

41. true

but i paid for my metrocard. that is a public service that i have already paid for. if i refuse to let them look in my bag (which i will and I will tell them why, and then i'll walk a block and enter at the other entrance -i can't believe that a terrorist would be deterred any more than I would be)and they deny me a service, for which I have paid, then "voluntary" is a very stretched phrase at that point. i still think it's a violation.

[sabbat hunter]

Police to Check Bags on NYC Subways

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050721/ap_on_re_us/transit_security

bloomies at it again. yes there was more bombings in london, is that any reason to violate our civil rights and search us without a warrant or probably cause?

peace
david
:hippie:

[High Plains]

24. Ya got a warrant to go with that search?

Ah, Fourth Amendment, we hardly knew ye.

[stocksthatgoup]

25. No Need For Searches

Soon everyone will be injected with an electronic tracker.

[SteppingRazor]

28. Or maybe we already have!!

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[SteppingRazor]

27. They don't need one.

You can refuse the search, but then you can't get on the subway.

Of course, you could always refuse the search, then take a cab to the next station and board there. So this really does nothing to stop anyone who is determined to get on the sub.

[High Plains]

29. Hmmm...guess I should read the whole article before I go

shooting my mouth off. I still don't like this, though. It seems like my options are:

a) submit to an unreasonable, unwarranted, suspicionless search of my property, or

b)be unable to use public facilities that my tax dollars pay for.

I know private companies can tell employees to check their rights at the door, but can the government?

I guess they already do at courthouses, etc.

How far does it go? Will it reach a point where I have to give up my right to appear in public in order to avoid unwarranted searches?

I'm glad I spend very little time in the US these days.

[grytpype]

26. Leave the weed at home if you're taking the subway...

Kelly said passengers selected for searches will be approached by officers, who will ask them what they are carrying, and request them to open their bags. If an officer looking for explosives finds some other form of contraband, police said that person would be subject to arrest.

Wanna guess what form of contraband the pigs will be looking for?

[HockeyMom]

30. You can bet they won't be searching out

white men in suits with briefcases either.

[LeftNYC]

33. Looks like no one will be selling bootleg DVDs or M&Ms on the subway for

awhile. I have a copy of Franken's book in my bag. Will they confiscate that too?

[despairing optimist]

31. When do the metal detectors get installed?

I guess after the X-ray machines come in. Slow enough individuals down, reasonably or not, and the city dies. Now, why would I think the GOP hates NYC and would rather do without it?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

35. these are all lies.

You see, when we took out Sad-dam we made the world safer. We took out an ally of Bin-Layden in the war on terra. These bag searches don't need to happen because all is now right with the world thanks to George W "W3" Chimp and his liberating the planet called Earth from the scourge of terra, and by his spreading of freedumb. These are all hugh lies perpetrated by the trilateral commission headed by Clinton who wants to kill all Kerstchuns and usher in the Anti-Christ.

[JPZenger]

36. Some bag searches are useless

I've been through some bag searches in D.C. that were almost useless. They looked in the bag so quickly that unless you had 10 sticks of dynamite attached to a giant alarm clock, the guard wouldn't have noticed.

The was an article that the Smithsonians often don't use their metal detectors because there are too many people going in, and the lines would back up.

Hopefully, the technology to detect explosives will improve. In the meantime, we need many more bomb-sniffing dogs.

Remember, the best place to be in line is in front of an Arabic-looking guy. They will let you through quickly so they can search his body cavities.

[BronxBoy]

39. LOL

I gotta remember that next time I'm home

:rofl: