US teen gets prison for making 'terrorist threat'

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21568656.htm

DETROIT, July 21 (Reuters) - A teenager convicted of plotting to kill fellow students was sentenced to prison on Thursday in what the prosecution called the first case to apply U.S. anti-terrorism laws to threats of school violence.

Andrew Osantowski, 18, of suburban Detroit, will serve at least 4 1/2 years in prison, said Macomb County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Steve Kaplan. He said it was the first prosecution and conviction under a national anti-terrorism statute that passed in 2002.

Last month, a Macomb County jury convicted Osantowski of "making a terrorist threat" after he wrote messages on the Internet about the possibility of killing students at his Chippewa Valley High School.

Osantowski was also found guilty of possessing a firearm while committing a felony and using a computer to make a terrorist threat.

[oasis]

1. Take him out of circulation and let him get tough with the big house boys.

[ironman202]

38. gladiator school...

[pretzel4gore]

2. lol

government by the goofy, of the goofy, for the goofy....
hahaha. the usa is a stupid bully country, in bush it trusts...haha
(idiot kid make public threats, goes to jail, bush attacks the public, goes to bed)

[Onlooker]

3. Curious to see how if the Nantucket "terrorists" are treated as harshly

A week ago, 3 teens vacationing in tony Nantucket (an exclusive island in Massachusetts) reported a bomb on a ferry so that they could spend an extra night on the island. (Their efforts were successful.) All 3 teens go to private schools and, I think, are from well-heeled Connecticut or Nantucket families. I certainly don't think they deserve a severe punishment, but it will be interesting to see exactly what their money buys.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/07/21/teens_reluctance_to_part_tied_to_ferry_bomb_hoax/

[noamnety]

8. There's a bit of a difference between the two cases

When they searched this guy's home, they found stolen weapons, ammunition, bomb-making paraphernalia, and videotapes showing him in possession of assault weapons.

http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw118750_20050721.htm

[WhiteTara]

41. do you believe everything you read

on a freeper site? That made the whole thing suspect to me, but maybe I am just too cynical.

[Orangepeel]

43. That's the site for the Detroit Free Press

which, AFAIK, is a real newspaper (as US Newspapers go). The "freep" in the name is unrelated to the term freeper as it is used here.

[WhiteTara]

46. thanks...I didn't read throughly

my bad

[Orangepeel]

47. hee, hee

Actually, I had a very similar reaction the first time I saw that link. It's a very unfortunate name!

:-)

[ckramer]

4. 4 years might be too much, but he definitely needs some jail time

He's only 18.

[OfireitupO]

5. And what if he was just joking?

Should we pre-emptively strike kids now for speech?

The fact is, these laws are destroying the foundation of America.


You can only increase security so much before you have a full blown fascist state. As Ben Franklin said, "those who value security over freedom deserve neither".


Watch what you say on the internet. If you make a joke or a threat on Bush, it could mean your ass in prison too. Whatcha gonna do, when the man comes around?

[Miss Chybil]

6. Some things you just can't do...

You can't say "bomb" in an airport. You can't say "fire" in a theater and you can't say you're going to "kill kids at school." Never. Ever. There is no room for jokes.

[OfireitupO]

9. But on the internet, the free speech zone?

Trust me , at 18 and 4 years in the pen, he will come out a very violent man and possibly out to really kill.

Most of us have no idea what prison is like, it will undoubtably turn him into a criminal.

[Miss Chybil]

11. I know what prison's like. I used to work in one.

Imagine the kid had killed a bunch of classmates and it was discovered he had made threats on the Internet to do just that. Imagine the authorities blew it off thinking he was just "joking." Considering they found the kid had weapons, I think they were right to take him seriously and punish him for it. How do you know he wasn't out to "really kill" this time?

This guy will survive prison, more than likely. Most people do. His four years will probably turn into a little over 1.5 if he's good, and yes, he could come out with a vengeance. If that's the case - he'll, more than likely, have to go back. Unfortunately, our prisons are little more than warehouses and do little to teach people a better way to live. Hopefully, he'll find, as he's laying in his bunk, staring at the ceiling, he did a really stupid thing and will vow to never get in trouble again.

[whatelseisnew]

22. Yes "our prisons are little more than warehouses

and do little to teach people a better way to live."

I appreciate your hopefulness but agree more that he will come out with a vengeance vowing never to get caught again.

[Miss Chybil]

26. So what would your solution be?

And what would you say, if he had carried out his plan? I must say, this is one time I'm glad the police acted in a proactive manner, instead of taking their usual, "Well, there's nothing we can do until..." stance.

I'll add a little to my story about my experience with the prison system. My brother spent 5.25 years in one - for selling a small amount of cocaine to a police officer. His experience with the drug was a mere 6 months. Six months and he served 5.25 years. The prosecutor wanted him to do 43 years, flat. He didn't threaten to kill children, or anybody else. He didn't have an illegal weapon and he didn't have plans for mass murder, but he got a lot more time than this kid will do.

Want to know where my brother is now? He's married, three daughters, has a 400k house, a truck, boat and a luxury car. He works his ass off as a superintendent building luxury apartments and he doesn't do drugs. He didn't get bitter, or vengeful. He served his time and vowed to follow a more productive path when he got out. I suppose I should mention, in all fairness to the warehouse they put him in, since he behaved in there - they taught him a trade - construction.

A lot of people aren't so lucky, but one can choose to follow a constructive path, or a destructive one, (barring any mental, or emotional, incapcitations.) If the kid in this story wants to kill people, that's what he's going to do - unfortunately - prison, or no. If he does, he'll get a lot more time than 4 years - hopefully. That's another irony in the prison system... my brother did time with murderers whose sentences were plea-bargained to less than his. He was sentenced under mandatory sentencing laws - the judge gave him the minimum.

[High Plains]

28. Did he have a "plan" or was this loose talk?

The article doesn't make it clear.

The kid will do 4 1/2 years MINIMUM, according to the article.

Nice overcharging by the authorities: possession of a weapon while committing a felony, use of a computer in a felony.

I know some people may be shocked, but I've known more than a few bulletheaded kids like this, enthralled with guns and Nazis and all that shit. None of them have killed anybody. That doesn't mean they're not idiots, just not killers.

Without knowing more facts in this case, I have to say I am skeptical...

[Miss Chybil]

33. You act like a killer, you get treated like a killer. This is not

something to play around with. Yes, kids do stupid things. They puff up and put on a false bravado. But, that kind of stuff can get you dead, or, if you're lucky, in jail. You can't play with fire and not expect to get burned.

[High Plains]

34. Did he act like a killer?

Do you know what he actually said? I don't.

The kid lipped off in cyberspace and you want to send him to prison for years.

[whatelseisnew]

32. I'm happy for your brother, I wish it worked that way

for most people who are incarcerated. Your brother, and you, were exposed to the injustice in our justice system. I know a lot of people who become jaded and quickly turn against the system that they see is turning against them. Yes, some of them have "other problems" (a lot of people do), but they they don't get the help they need in prison. They come out bitter, scared and angry - and they don't stop breaking the law.

A solution? How about a concerted, productive effort to reduce recivitism rates? How about really treating mental illness and drug addiction or sending perps to places that will do that, rather than wasting the public's money on jails and prisons?

I'm not aiming at you, I'm taking the opportunity to vent about an issue that I've seen a little too "close up and personal" lately.

[Miss Chybil]

36. "The mind is of its own place. It can make a hell of heaven and a heaven

of hell." You do the best you can with what you have to work with.

Yes, alcohol and drug offenders should be treated and taken out of the prison system, along with the mentally ill. (Although, in Arizona they are housed in a prison hospital if they are really messed up. Problem is, when they leave, getting them to keep taking their meds is nearly impossible.) And, yes, there should be more focus on reducing recidivism rates. But, you know what causes the biggest decline in recidivism in males? Age. Some men will go in and out of jail until they're around 40, then they tend to quit going back. It's believed to be due to a drop in testosterone.

I believe the government makes a lot of mistakes when it comes to incarcerating people. Sentences are unfair. Sometimes, too lax. Sometimes, too harsh. It seems the darker one's skin the faster they get to go to jail. While at the same time, dangerous predators are let out onto our streets to prey on our children and families, over and over again. I'm totally against the death penalty - not because I don't believe some of the people on death row don't deserve to die, but because there might be one innocent person in the bunch AND because I don't think it's right for the state to turn all its citizens into murderers.

Study upon study has been done to "find a better way" and it all boils down to lack of money - or should I say a reluctance to spend the money - needed to change the way we process our criminals. But, in all of this the responsibilty rests mainly with the individual. Like they say, "Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time." The easiest way to beat the system is to stay out of it.

[pretzel4gore]

40. bush and pigmedia do it constantly

they wage war against civil society, but noone noticed...hahaha

[noamnety]

10. see post 8 - he had stolen weapons, etc.

[High Plains]

29. No stolen weapons

His "arsenal" consisted of three weapons. Hell, half the people I know have "arsenals" like that.

[noamnety]

37. The paper says "stolen"

"His father, Marvin Osantowski, is facing charges of helping his son hide stolen weapons and tools." (from the article I linked above)

That's in addition to weapons, bomb making material, and the assault weapons he's got in his home videos. If half the people you know have that sort of arsenal, maybe you're hanging out with the wrong crowd. ;)

[High Plains]

42. Hmm...missed the "stolen weapons" part. I stand corrected.

I think stealing weapons is a crime.

Many people in this country own guns, maybe even three of them. It's not unusual. And then there are serious gun nuts...

"Assault weapons" are legal. Many Americans own them as well (for better or worse).

And I would like to know more about the "bomb-making materials." I certainly do not take prosecutors at their word. Hell, I probably have what police could misconstrue as "bomb-making materials" in my home. And you probably do, too.

Maybe the kid really was making bombs, but this whole thing smells of gross overreaction.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. doesn't sound like a joke

from the link:
A search of his Macomb County home yielded weapons, ammunition, bomb-making paraphernalia, videotapes showing the teen in possession of assault weapons, a Nazi flag and printed materials about Adolf Hitler and white supremacy.

[OfireitupO]

16. In that case..

The kid definitely deserved that punishment, but if he had those views he will think of himself as a victim and will hurt people when he gets out.

Very unfortunate case

[High Plains]

30. Oh, c'mon

weapons--legal to possess

ammo--legal to possess

bomb-making paraphernalia--what's that? an alarm clock? black powder?
duct tape? what?

videotapes showing him holding an assault weapon--legal to film, legal to possess

Nazi flag--legal to possess

"printed materials about Adolf Hitler and white supremacy"--that could be anything from Aryan Nations to Southern Poverty Law Center

Yet prosecutors can make it all sound pretty scary. This case smells like a bad overrreaction.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Go read up on

the Columbine killers and get back to me. Focus on their activities BEFORE the shootings.

For extra credit, read all about Timothy McVeigh.

[High Plains]

35. Ah, yes, nothing like preemptive imprisonment.

I am familiar with both Columbine and McVeigh, thank you.

[progressivebydesign]

17. Umm joking? Are U joking? The kid was armed to the hilt..

It's one thing for a dumb kid to write up a "hit list" for fantasy, revenge, musings. It's quite another to search his home and find the ACTUAL weapons and bombmaking materials to make it possible. Four years is not the right sentence for that student. He should be committed to a mental hospital to fix his fucked up mind, because.. contrary to the violence appeasers in America, it is NOT normal to plot to kill your classmates. It does not make you just a criminal, it makes you insane. He should be treated, then serve time. But... that's just too common sensical.

[SemperEadem]

24. Well,

when it's one of your kids on the target list of a guy like this person who gets killed, then come back to us with that rhetoric.

This isn't an issue of free speech--some speech is not protected and this is one of those.

[Steve Dallas]

48. Joking?

He should serve jail time for his shitty sense of humor.

[marbuc]

13. 4 years is just fine, if not too little.

He is 18, he should definitely know right from wrong.

[WatchWhatISay]

7. Serious crime? Yes Terrorism? NO

If every crime that is unpopular is allowed to be called terrorism, what do you think they will call dissenters?

[tanyev]

12. I think the phrase has been around for awhile.

I worked in a county records office from 1992-2003. "Terroristic Threats" was not an uncommon charge.

[ugarte]

14. You ask too many questions

Just drink the koolaid.

[ngGale]

21. My fear is that everything will be done in the name of terror ...

seems that's the plan. Domestic terrorist, 18 year old kid. The time fits, but the name of the crime doesn't. I wouldn't have a problem with usual charges, stolen fire arms, intent - very bad crime, but a terrorist! Some are already rationalizing, isn't that what Germany did, so where is bin Laden anyway? :scared:

[Deja Q]

18. Was he often a bully? Or a victim of bullies?

Let's take this all the way, especially if he was only tempted to retaliate. The core problems need to be addressed too.

That aside, the kid has problems.

And yet perpetrators of anti-gay violence aren't seen as terrorists...

[MaraJade]

19. Bullying, Hazing and Harrassment by other students

is what creates kids like this. Kids don't just wake up one day and
decide to create "hate lists" and gather weapons for no reason. They do it when no one--no teacher, no responsible adult and no fellow student--seems to care that school is made a living hell by the uncaring or cruel actions of certain other kids in the school. Until we as a nation develop a ZERO TOLERANCE policy for bullying and harrassment in schools, we will continue to have kids who feel so powerless and alone that they feel the need to resort to "enemies lists" and taking the law into their own hands. Everyone is quick to
arrest a kid like this, but no one seems to care to investigate the
hazing that made this kid so desperate in the first place.

Everyone seems to have a "kids will be kids" attitude. No one seems
to even care about the psychic and physical damage cause by bullying
hazing and harrassment in the schools. This is utter bullshit!~!

As a parent, I HAVE A ZERO TOLERANCE policy of my own. If any other student harrasses, hazes or bullies my teen daughter in any way whatsoever, I will have that kid arrested for making terrorist threats. Futhermore, I will sue their parents in court for civil damages. I will make the bully and his or her parents pay in the severest way I can. I will ruin their lives as much as possible.
After all, their poorly trained kid will have tried to ruin my daughter's life. Why should I wait until my child is pushed into suicidal or homicidal thoughts. I WON'T. I'll see to it that the full weight of the law is brought to bear to destroy their lives first.

Until society makes the "popular kids", "prom queenbees" and "jocks" mind their own business and leave others alone, we will continue to have problems with kids plotting revenge in schools. School is for
education--NOT for popularity contests and personal one-upsmanship.

When are we going to wake up!

[Turley]

20. "I will ruin their lives as much as possible."

Just ever so slightly over the top?

Just because some teenager is acting like an ass, doesn't mean his family needs their lives ruined. Sorry, but that's crazy.

[slackmaster]

25. My ex-girlfriend made a very similar threat when I blocked her phone calls

Almost exactly the same wording. I guess she's a "terrorist" too.

:eyes:

[Chovexani]

27. You've clearly never been a target for one of these types

I don't agree with ruining their family, but I wish my mom/authority figures would have taken the brutal harassment I got at school seriously and done something about the perpetrators. Maybe I wouldn't be in therapy as an adult.

[demobabe]

45. Teachers should take more action

I've seen teachers overlook bullying activities - that doesn't help any of the kids. Trouble is, usually the hazing occurs when the teacher isn't looking.

[demobabe]

44. You can try, my guess is you'll be less than happy with the results

"As a parent, I HAVE A ZERO TOLERANCE policy of my own. If any other student harrasses, hazes or bullies my teen daughter in any way whatsoever, I will have that kid arrested for making terrorist threats. Futhermore, I will sue their parents in court for civil damages. I will make the bully and his or her parents pay in the severest way I can. I will ruin their lives as much as possible."

There is no excuse for bullying or hazing, but retailiation legally probably won't teach them anything and make your daughter a target for yet more bullying and hazing because her mommy has to take care of her and she can't take care of herself. Good way to promote exactly the behavior you don't want. And you're not going to sue anybody for anything unless they've done something like kill your daughter. Emotional distress isn't viewed as "damages" in court. You have to show them something like a severed arm (actual damages).

"After all, their poorly trained kid will have tried to ruin my daughter's life. Why should I wait until my child is pushed into suicidal or homicidal thoughts."

What are you doing letting your daughter hang out with people that try to ruin her life? If you teach your child to be a good person and work with them to promote their self-esteem (not an easy thing to do in today's peer-influenced and MTV influenced society), your daughter is less likely to be the target of the hazing to begin with. Kids desperate for acknowledgement outside themselves are easy targets. Teach your child to stay away from people that don't play nice.

[nookiemonster]

23. It must be that damn Grand Theft Auto!

:sarcasm:

[HEyHEY]

39. Meanwhile the British have arrested their attackers