House to Back Bush on Moon, Mars Trips

[Rose Siding]

The House for the first time in five years will weigh in on national space policy today, offering a bipartisan endorsement of President Bush's initiative to send humans to the moon and Mars and authorizing an extra $1.3 billion over the next two years to forestall cuts in NASA's traditional programs in science and aeronautics.

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration Authorization Act of 2005 also endorses a maintenance visit by the space shuttle to the Hubble Space Telescope and calls on NASA to develop a national aeronautics policy.
...
The bill, covering 2006 and 2007, blends a one-year GOP proposal intent on endorsing Bush's wish to return humans to the moon by 2020 with a three-year Democratic counteroffer emphasizing the research potential of the international space station. The Science Committee approved the measure 36 to 0.

The compromise used about the same NASA budget levels proposed by the White House but shifted money from "exploration" -- Bush's top priority -- to science, aeronautics and education. Then lawmakers added $509.3 million to the 2006 budget and $764.8 million for 2007, after the White House requested that exploration funding be restored.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/21/AR2005072102064.html

[clydefrand]

1. When is * going? We could all wave good-bye to him.

[LiberalFighter]

3. When he goes make sure to give him the moon

[HeeBGBz]

37. Jettison his sorry ass

I'd donate a few $$ for that.

[Uncle Joe]

57. He and his rich neocon friends will be leaving when

they have made Earth inhabitable for mankind to live on, this is why they took so long in acknowledging that global warming is for real. This why they believe in living only for the day and raping the planet like there is no tomorrow.

[Zorra]

78. Yep. 200 heat records have been broken in the last 10 days.

Bu*h and his neocon friends are insane by the standards of any society.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

2. sorry headline had me thinking the Chimp was going to Mars

the chimp makes final preparations

[Gusto md]

20. HAHAHA!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

That was gold......! :applause:

[UTUSN]

4. All RIGHT!!!!!!!------- We're Sending Shrub to MARS??????/ n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. lol, I think that will be everyone's hope when they read that

But I'm just not sure that there's any money left in the Treasury to fund anything bigger than a bottle rocket.

[TankLV]

13. Hey - if it's good enough for bunkerboy to stick a firecracker up a frogs

butt, then I say a bottle rocket up his to send him on his way would be only fair.

[high density]

6. Why of course! More corporatism

Let's give more money to Honeywell, Boeing, Lockheed, et al! But who knows, we might even get lucky and have a few decent jobs created here in America.

[tanyev]

7. I heartily support sending Bush to the moon and Mars.

:bounce:

[geckosfeet]

8. Sure. He will piss of the martians and we will really be in trouble.

[meow2u3]

18. Then we'll have a real War of the Worlds

Not just a fictional account that scared the pants off millions of unsuspecting Americans a few generations ago.

[Redstone]

9. This is SO fucking stupid.

I've been a fan of the space program ever sinced it started in the early 1960s, and seeing a night launch of the Shuttle is something I'll never forget.

But going to Mars? It's just plain stupid and pointless and will never happen.

Redstone

[TheCentepedeShoes]

10. Must have discovered

oil on Mars.

[moggie]

71. You jest, but...

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=1436

Four years ago, writing in the Oil & Gas Journal, Halliburton scientist Steve Streich pointed out why a Mars program would be so lucrative for Halliburton. He says a "Mars exploration program presents an unprecedented opportunity" for the industry and that it "warrants the support of both government and industry leaders." He says "one area of great importance is finding out of what the inside of Mars consists. That's where the petroleum industry comes in." Specifically, benefits for "the oil and gas industry may lie in technology that NASA will use for drilling into the surface of Mars." He says there is "great potential for a happy synergy between space researchers" on a Mars project and "the oil and gas industry."

It's not that they want to drill for oil on Mars: it's hard to see that ever being profitable, until we've colonised the place! But the technology developed for drilling on Mars will be of benefit to the oil industry back on Earth.

[Massacure]

17. Why is it pointless?

There is a lot we can learn from Mars. The problem with Mars is that there is a 20 minutes communications delay with Earth. Astronauts can react instantaneously; robots cannot. Besides, there is bound to be another mass extinction someday. Mars gives us a chance to prevent the demise of our species.

[MikeDuffy]

22. And who/what will most likely be responsible for humans' demise?

Another question: if our solar system had multiple planets inhabited by human-like species similar to the ones Columbus encountered in the "New World", would you also be keen on our sending explorations to those planets?

[wuushew]

30. Perhaps an asteroid?

Not all extinction scenarios involve the malice of man. Well meaning and peaceful hippies would also be wiped out in such an event.

There are numerous scientific and commercial reasons to go to Mars. Rich in deuterium Mars could prove extremely useful in the coming energy crises of the future and the Mars/Jupiter asteroid belt is teaming with tons upon of tons of useful precious metals.

The biggest waste of money right now is the shuttle and inter-national space station. We spend billions on both programs and the provide nothing.

[WildClarySage]

33. It's the commercial reasons that bothers me. Should the race

to space be corporate, rather than funded by non-corporate parties interested in advancing the knowledge of the universe? The corporations are not interested in funding knowledge for knowledge's sake, but have a vested interest in research that leads to profit. There's an inherent conflict of interest. If we let Shell and Exxon and DuPont do the research, a LOT of important stuff gets left out.

[Massacure]

34. Actually they do a lot more than you might think.

Mars is a 3 month trip in the best scenario. Plus there is a 1 year delay inbetween windows. It is not going to be easy to design something to keep astronauts safe for 18 months in micro/no gravity as well as sheild them from cosmic radiation.

[0007]

77. Three months would be pushing it!

Estimates of the travel time to nearby destinations such as Mars are in the range of 8 to 10 months.

[Massacure]

82. Depends on where Mars is.

The 3 month scenario has a narrow window that needs to be made. The window only opens up every few years.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Rich in deuterium? That would be the Earth

It's sloshing around in the oceans. The ratio of deuterium to hydrogen may be greater on Mars, but there are vastly larger amounts of water available on Earth, so there's no point in going to Mars for dueterium.

Are we facing a shortage of 'precious metals'? No, we're facing an energy shortage - and getting to and from asteroids or Mars takes a lot of energy.

[wuushew]

81. The Delta V to go to Mars is less than that of going to the moon

6 km/s for the moon vs. 4.5 km/s from LEO to the surface of Mars. Energy expense of a Mars launch is not an issue.

Deuterium is 5 times more plentiful on Mars than Earth and although liquid water is not readily available the water mined or extracted for future colonization could easily be separated before use. At $10,000 per kilogram a sufficiently large colony could offer this as a useful export. The return of this material to Earth would not be very time sensitive and would require even less energy than it takes to get to Mars. I can see such an industry becoming profitable.

In regards to asteroid mining.

..For example a run-of-the-mill asteroid just one kilometer in diameter, This asteroid would have a mass of two billion tonnes, of which 200 million tonnes would be iron, 30 million tonnes would be high quality nickel, 1.5 million tonnes would be the strategic metal cobalt, and 7,500 tonnes would be a mixture of platinum group metals whose average value at current prices would be in the neighborhood of $20,000 per kilogram. That adds up to $150 billion for the platinum alone.

The Case for Mars page 223
Robert Zubrin

[muriel_volestrangler]

83. The energy expense of a Mars launch may not be an issue

but the equipment and manpower needed to do so certainly is. More than that, there's the cost of maintaining the equipment needed to extract the deuterium from the ice. You have to compare the difficulty of keeping a person alive, and happy, on Mars compared with Earth, to keep the equipment working. Is that really worth it, for a headstart in the concentration process? If you use equipment made on Mars, then you need to account for how expensive it would be for the manufacturers to live there. If not, then the import costs need to be taken into account.

The same goes for asteroid mining - how do you keep the machinery needed to turn a rough asteroid into consignments of metal sitting on the Earth's surface going? It's a huge challenge, compared with just digging the stuff out of the Earth's surface, or recycling the stuff we've already extracted. And that's assuming there will be a continued need for more of these metals, at the high prices they command today.

If you've got figures on the equipment and manpower needed, and they can actually turn out cheaper than doing it on Earth, then I'll be interested.

[asianmale]

23. Yep, we really need to go there

and hopefully find positive proof of life or evidence of past life on Mars. Then the far religious right can STFU

[oscar111]

75. the RW religs will just twist things and incorporate it

like they often have when they had to.

[kestrel91316]

27. Sorry, wrecking earth as we have means we have NO

right whatsoever to go to another planet and wreck it next. If we trash earth and it means the demise of mankind, I say we earned it.

Mass extinction is happening as we speak, and WE are responsible for it because we have destroyed so many ecosystems.

[Chrisduhfur]

46. Are you serious?

If so then I am really glad you're not a world leader. If you want your families futures generations to die because of our current and past stupidities then so be it, but I support colonizing the solar system 100%

[kestrel91316]

60. "Colonizing the solar system?" What are you smoking??

[Chrisduhfur]

62. Some kick ass weed I got from mars...

Why do you find that so hard to believe? Particularly as technology advanced and it gets cheaper to do such things. I have no doubts that in the next 100 years there will be people living on the moon and probably mars.

[muriel_volestrangler]

64. Maybe we ought to fix this planet before starting on another?

What do you think would be easier, cleaning up Earth, balancing the water usage when it falls from the sky, using an atmosphere that already the oxygen - or trying to do all that on a planet with no atmosphere, no liquid water, with an unnatural gravity that could cause physiological problems?

If you think we'll have done so well here on Earth in 100 years that we'll have the leisure time for vacationing on a completely impractical world like Mars, then you're the biggest optimist I've ever met.

[Chrisduhfur]

65. That's not what I said.

I didn't say anything about people vacationing on mars. I said that there is a good chance that colonies will be created. Probably for scientific purposes, but who knows what kind of technology we will come up? If you think humans are stuck on Earth, then you're the biggest pessimist I have ever met.

As for your comment about cleaning up the earth. Well, I am sure us humans can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time. Besides, technology/knowledge gained from space exploration could very well help Earth. What if we placed most of the worlds polluting factories on the moon? Obviously not feasible now, but the only way it can become feasible is if we keep at it and improve our methods.

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. You seem to have no appreciation of industry

Polluting factories on the Moon? How many do you think could make things without any water or air? Of those that do, they probably have closed processes, and so don't pollute. With pollution an energy crises upon us, it certainly looks as if humans can do 2 things at once - that is, keep industry going without ruining the planet. In 100 years, if we try hard, we may have stopped man-made climate change. Trying to get people living on a different planet would be a complete distraction.

Setting up a colony on a world with no breathable air or liquid water is a luxury - hence the 'vacation' aspect of it. What are the actual scientific needs? They'd be able to tell us lots about Martin geology. But there's no particular advantage to having a bit less gravity than Earth; and for astronomy, you'd be better off in orbit round the earth (no atmosphere at all), or at least on the Moon. But do you need a colony of people to support instruments? What harm will be done to their bodies by spending years there? The cost to the children's bodies could be a high price to pay for a bit of scientific knowledge.

[Chrisduhfur]

67. You seem to have no appreciation of technology.

We do not know what the future will bring. Many also believe that there is ice not only on mars, but also on the moon. Even if that is not the case, technology will no doubt solve many problems. I suppose we can agree to disagree on the merits of space exploration.

I am curious as to what you're thoughts are about past explorers? How about the people who came from Europe to the Americas? Do you think that was too high of a price for them to pay. Or more recently, how about the US going to moon back in the 60's and 70's? Not worth it?

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. The explorers didn't go to somewhere with no air or water

or no food. I'd point out that Antarctica has no colonies, just a few scientific stations where people spend a year or two, and that's a paradise compared with the Moon or Mars. It's also far more accessible. The explorers were looking for lands to trade with, or lands where they could start self-sustaining colonies. They also went to somewhere where the gravity was the same, so their bodies weren't permanently affected by the change.

Living on the Moon or Mars would be like being in prison, for life. You'd put a family through that?

Going to the Moon was excellent PR. Its achievements weren't much though, after the initial euphoria wore off. It did help the understanding of the solar system's origins a bit.

[kestrel91316]

70. What about the gravity/osteoporosis/heart issues, dear?

What about the years of travel time between planets?
What about the fact that we can't even seem to keep the space station in running order?
What about the issues of human reproduction in a non-earth environment?
What about the rest of biology in a non-earth environment? We evolved in an ecosystem and we need an ecosystem to live. Air to breathe, atmospheric pressure, gravity, magnetic fields, etc.

Like I said...........I want some of what you are smoking. No deus ex machina is going to come down and solve these problems for us. Abundant fictional literature is not going to change scientific facts.

Chris must be about 16. I remember being young and idealistic and NAIVE, too, at one time.

[geckosfeet]

45. theocons are throwing bones and distracting,,,

[UncleSepp]

54. Uh oh, time for the Bullshitfish translator again

"I am SO fucking arrogant."
Posted by Redstone

"I like space exploration, but personally, I don't understand the need for a Mars mission, and I don't think we'll ever send humans there. Oh, and people who don't agree with me are SO stupid that I don't need to treat them or their opinions with anything approaching tact, politeness, or the normal rules of social or scientific discourse. In fact, I'm not really looking for a discussion on the topic, just for people to either polish my ego by saying 'Me too' or for people to set themselves up for me to insult them."

Redstone, chill. If you think the mission is ill advised, try explaining why you think so. That could be an interesting and lively discussion. Calling something as complex as a mission to Mars "SO fucking stupid" isn't going to start anything but a flame war.

[allalone]

11. how soon can he leave? nt

[TankLV]

12. When's he leaving?

Can we kick his butt as he leaves?

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. MARS, BITCHES!

[QuettaKid]

55. Best. Sketch. Ever.

[The Traveler]

15. As an advocate of manned spaceflight

all I can do is hang my head in dismay. This is NOT a good plan.

[ramapo]

35. Our failure is sickening

Two nights ago I was laying in bed, staring at the full moon, honoring the anniversary of the first moon landing, and reviewing the amazing tragedy of a country that accomplished such an incredible feat only to basically flush the whole thing down the toilet like a piece of excretment.

The technology and jobs that have been lost because of our failure to continue a robust space program are unimaginable.

[The Traveler]

85. Exactly so

And orbital solar power may just be the ticket to resolving the global warming and peak oil problems. Imagine the economic potential of THAT, and the costs of letting it slip thru our fingers. (I am hopeful but unconvinced ... more study is required.)

[Chrisduhfur]

47. Why?

Why do you say it's not a good plan? Any particular reason?

[The Traveler]

84. Because we have real work to do

Logic dictates that we face one of two choices:

a) a sudden decline in human population
b) expansion into the solar system for exploitation of its resources.

As things stand, I'm betting on a).

A manned expedition to Mars will do little to increase our capacity for routine operations in space.

The same money deployed on, say, Arthur Clarke's "space elevator" idea ... now that is a different matter. We need to develop and use new spaceflight technologies ... and going to Mars does relatively little to advance that.

We go to Mars once we have built the tools. We work in Low Earth Orbit and the Moon to make the tools.

Rob

[Career Prole]

16. The result of which will no doubt be...

Ack ack-ack ACK ack ack-ack ACK!!

[bunny planet]

19. He's going to volunteer to be the second monkey sent up in space soon

just to get out of the hot seat he'll be in here at home.

[MisterP]

21. he just wants to make them colonies and war bases, not forums for research

after he's done with Earth, he and his pals will start grinding up the rest of the solar system to support noodleheaded schemes: it's known as "pink goo" (an analogue to "gray goo"--nanodes eating everything and spreading infinitely)

[Occulus]

24. So, wait... Hubble will be fixed?

Come on guys, that at least is a sliver of good... but to the moon, Mars... we don't have the money for a big legacy-setting project right now.

Oh, wait...

[sonicx]

25. MARS BITCHES

(and no gays settling down)

[Tellurian]

26. Water and hydrogen on Mars-

The Bush Cartel only do things if there is $$$ init for them.

Sources say, more than likely, Mars will be mined for both of those end products; by you guessed it, naughty non conforming democraps.

(The words Non conforming are slowly replacing the word "LIBERAL" Democrats.)

[DeaconBlues]

28. a good start, but we need to spend more money and effort on space

People need dreams. Better to focus our heroic endeavors in exploration than war and conquest.

[Yupster]

31. When I was a id the first men landed on the moon

As I get older I am really disappointed that we've made so little progress in space in almost two generations.

I really would have guessed that we'd have bases at least on the moon by now and trips around the bases would be routine.

I also want to see us inhabit other worlds.

It's our species', and our planet's species insurance policy against an inevitable disaster which will pummel earth some day.

[DeaconBlues]

32. blame it on Nixon

He had a choice between starting the shuttle program or a mission to Mars. He settled on the shuttle, and now thirty-some years later we are stuck in low-earth orbit.

[Barrett808]

41. But it will never happen

Financial collapse on the horizon, coming fast.

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. Who are they kidding?

A trip like that would probably require a trillion. WHat they are willing to spend won't even pay the air conditioning bill in the offices.

[maxrandb]

36. One Way Ticket Only!

Take the entire fucking House of Representatives with you. No sense in waiting for the "Rapture"....Bring It On!

[pseudostar]

38. okay... Im, like, totally distracted

How do i do that eye rolling e-mote? :eyes: ahhh.....there it is

[Rose Siding]

43. LOL- Welcome to DU, pseudostar

:D

[pseudostar]

53. Thx

Long time lurker, 1st time poster.

:)

[semillama]

39. "Hey, we're putting a man on the moon!"

"That's great, but how about we put a man in an apartment first?"

-paraphrasing David Cross

[leesa]

40. More militarization from the short-sighted fascists.

[gatorboy]

42. They're not going anywhere on $1.3 billion

They go through that much in Iraq in two weeks. A Mars mission would cost a shit load more and I wonder if they'll actually admit how much a project of that magnitude would really cost.

I am glad, though, that they are keeping NASA programs in businessand that NASA hasn't recieved the cuts other important programs of the gov't have.

[Javaman]

44. What a colossal jackass*...

here the moron* tries desperately to imitate a Kennedy-esque type of bold move, yet, he continues to fail miserably.

Instead of the moon and mars, try something that will help us in the immediate. For example, converting the whole nation to a new form of energy? Now that would be a legacy.

Poor poor georgie*, poor poor ignorant stupid dimwitted georgie*.

The venom that I spew from my lips in regards to this imbecile is only trumped by his continued inability to function on a daily level without destroying this country in a nuclear accident started by his complete inane comments to the world.

Hate is a strong word, and frankly, it's not strong enough to adequately describe the loathing, complete contempt, the utter disdain or the seething rage I have against this individual and how he has totally bastardized the constitution to fit his own misguided mission to bolster his failed essence as a human being.

Whew! that felt good. :)

[WhiteTara]

48. do they build spaceships with enough room

for all the repukes? I say give them the money and get rid of them. Then when they want to come back we can always use the missle defense shield against them...oh crap, I just remembered...it doesn't work.

[Chovexani]

49. There's enough trash in space

Though I have to admit shooting all those neocon bastards into orbit does sound pretty tempting. :P

Gods help us if oil is ever found on Mars. :scared:

[VegasWolf]

50. Bush just wants to ride his little bicycle on the Moon. nt

[number6]

51. what a joke ....

we can't fly the shuttle ... launch delayed to September
can't secure the road to the f*cking Baghdad airport
can't resupply the international space station or finish it
can't keep GM. Ford, Kodak, Delta air lines Jobs ...
can't provide everybody with health care ...
can't keep homeless people from dieing of heat in southern Arizona
( where's the righteous save Terry S. people ??)

welcome to Smirkville USA ..

[number6]

52. post # 2 izzat the picture of * in his flight suit on the ..

post # 2 izzat the picture of * in his flight suit on the ..
aircraft carrier Lincoln ..? ;)

[Supersedeas]

56. the man is sooo Revolutionary...or is it? DIVERSIONARY

[area51]

58. healthcare

Can we please fund universal healthcare for the U.S. before we go to the moon & Mars? :mad:

[oscar111]

73. 25 nations outlive us, and now , waste dollars on space?

total insanity

[FreeStateDemocrat]

59. Another repuke pork barrel along w/ Homeland Security payoffs

They should give all the repuke members of congress three legged stools in honor of milking the U. S. Treasury dry for generations to come.

[Chicago Democrat]

61. Where is the house? in back of a bush? on Mars or Moon?

What is the deal with this trip?

[LizW]

68. When I was in fourth grade

we did a school musical called "Cowboy on the Moon".

Forty years later I still remember the lyrics to the big finale:

He'll be a cowboy on the moon by and by,
He'll be a cowboy on the moon ridin' high!
First he'll rope the planet Mars,
Then he'll round up all the stars
When he's a rootin' tootin', high falutin'
Cowboy on the Moon!

Excuse me while I go throw up. :eyes:

[oscar111]

72. 1OO,OOO homeless die/yr and now we waste $ on this?

total waste.

scientists agree, robotics can do all the exploration for onetenth the cost of humans.

waste.

[xxqqqzme]

74. Why is this corrupt bunch of fascist suddenly

'interested' in spending money on NASA? What is the military benefit hidden in THIS agenda??

These rat fuckers do not spend our money w/o them getting a benefit.

[FrankieBud]

76. Golly Gee,

What an achievement, what a goal...didn't we already do that Moon Stuff 35 years ago?

[Old_Fart]

79. If they attach * to the back of the rocket

I will pitch some cash in if that would help.

[MadisonProgressive]

80. I'm all for that if :

The tax cuts for the rich are repealed, the war in Iraq is ended, the budget is balanced, and priority goes to alternative fuels over space exploration. There's a great good to be gained by space exploration, but I think we need to guarantee the future of the planet first.