Gunshots reported on the Tube(London)

[Guy_Montag]

Edit:Stockwell Tube Station

BBC Radio FiveLive

Uncorroborated so far, ie. might be bollocks

Update:
Lot of shouting
Sound of gunfire
People saying "get off, get off".
More gunfire, someone shot.
Shots from police officers.

Eyewitness interview on radio.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. Bloody hell.

Again?

[Wetzelbill]

6. As we were saying on the other thread....

It's a good thing Iraq didn't create anymore terrorists or anything. :)

[Mr Creosote]

2. POLICE SHOOT SUSPECTED SUICIDE BOMBER

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1189920,00.html

[Mr Creosote]

5. Eye witness reports from

Sky News and News 24. A man vaulted the barriers into Stockwell tube station pursued by 3 armed men (Sky). A man who looked Pakistani ran onto the train at the station, tripping as he did. The 3 armed men emptied 5 shots into him (BBC).

[Mr Creosote]

7. 5 live reports

NSY confirms that armed police shot a man at Stockwell station just after 10. Some trains on Northern and Victoria lines suspended at request of the police.

[HeeBGBz]

82. I thought Bobbies didn't carry guns???

I guess that changed after 911, eh?

[silvermachine]

86. They've had armed police for ages...

...it's just that it's the exception over there, not the rule. Used selectively.

[HeeBGBz]

97. Thanks for clarifying n/t

[Spinzonner]

3. Looks like a mini-jihad in progress

Now Tony won't have to go looking for one.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

34. Did you get that from lgf? n/t

[drdon326]

38. What luck !! I was hoping you would see it.

So, you, more than anyone, understand the legitimate grievences of the FREEDOM-FIGHTERS who after years of oppression by the british population had no choice but to strike back.

So....what do you plan to do to placate these hard feelings?

Perhaps you could give up your house to those who have oppressed?

[Englander]

42. Witless as ever,dude - as funny as cancer. n/t

[drdon326]

43. C'mon.......come clean.

do you or dont you UNDERSTAND the legitimate grievences of these FREEDOM-FIGHTERS/BOMBERS/INSURGENTS?

Or do you wish to call them , by that derogatory term, TERRORISTS ?

[IA_Seth]

100. To Clarify

These bombers are not fighting against an oppressive occupying regime the way others that employ the same tactics are.

These bombers are coming to a free land willingly and causing pointless violence to promote a political/religious ideal. They are not forced into these tactics by an overpowering invader who insists on not sharing their homeland equally.

We both know who we are talking about, and your whole premise is just off.

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IA_Seth]

135. That's the sad thing...

He's not. I believe he is trying to compare the London attackers with Palestinians so that he can say the Palestinians are all terrorists.

At least that has certainly been his MO in the past.

[Sterling]

199. Oh I see.

So he was trying to sound like an asshole. I get it.

He should love this then. The PLO are terrorist. So is the IDF. A look at history shows which side started the tactic first. There would be no Israel unless zionist types were not willing to kill innocent Brits using terror bombings to force the Brits out of Palestine. Only after they were recognized as a state did the Israel's renounce terror as a political tool.

See how convenient that works out? One side says "Ok rule change" and expects the other to comply.

There are no good guys in the Israel/PLO fight. Only bad guys.

[Violet_Crumble]

215. I think you got the MO spot on...

n/t

[Sterling]

149. Sure the Brits were cruel enough to let these people live in their country

enjoy their social services and become citizens. Are you trying to sound like an asshole?

[PaulaFarrell]

35. What, let them stone women to death?

If they choose to live here, they should be willing to abide by the law here (as the vast majority are and do). I wouldn't expect the Saudis to change their system to accommodate me. Your remark about freedom fighters might apply to Iraquis or others coming here, but these kids are BRITISH. They've got all the freedom they want. They're just misguided losers (much like the Columbine guys) who want to go out with a bang.

on edit:

Iran has executed a couple of gay teenagers. SHould we let them do that here too?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1645017

[drdon326]

41. WHAT ?!?!

MISGUIDED LOSERS??

Why should these freedom-fighters have to follow law they dont agree with ??

Lets show them some UNDERSTANDING so we can open up some sort of dialogue with them.

[Prism]

44. Shouldn't freedom fighters . . .

fight for, you know, freedom before we give them that designation?

The militant Islamic fundamentalists are fighting for the oppression of women, minorities, and basically any mode of thought that doesn't agree with their own.

They should follow British law because they choose to live in Britain.

It is a dangerous argument you make. Should every individual group within a country have their own lil areas with wildly different legal systems? Can Irish-Americans start implementing Irish laws they like wholesale? Italian-Americans? African-Americans? Which laws? Where? Who decides?

Yeah, let's not go there.

[Joan of Arc]

205. "Shouldn't freedom fighters . . ."

"They should follow British law because they choose to live in Britain."

Excellent! No one forced them to move to the west.

Shortly after September 11, my mother was visiting a friend in another state. My mother's friend related a story from a elderly woman who lived next door to a Muslim family. This elderly woman would talk to the kids, bake cookies for them, etc. and there were no problems. However, one day the kids told her, "We came to live here so that we can kill you." When the woman brought a treat to their house for one of the kids' birthdays, the father slammed the door in her face.

[PaulaFarrell]

46. Lots of laws I don't agree with

I still have to fllow them. If these people really want to live under Sharia law, let them go to a country where they have it and leave us in peace.

I'm perfectly UNDERSTANDING of all the injustice caused in the ME. But these kids are British. They are free.

[ticapnews]

78. So we only have to follow laws we agree with now?

Cool beans!

[lockdown]

39. Save it for I/P nt

[Prism]

40. Ridiculous and Insane

This . . .:

I think Britain should allow them their own legal system according to muslem law and maybe consider apologizing to the community and maybe that would help.

. . .leads to this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1645017

No. No, thank you. No democratic nation should allow honor killings and blaming rape victims and executing homosexuals.

These things already happen in Britain in certain segments of the Muslim community. Make it all legal? What?

[drdon326]

45. Really ?

These things already happen in Britain in certain segments of the Muslim community. (????)

link? proof?

[Prism]

47. Do a google search . . .

For "Honor Killings Britain" and a lot of articles come up. I lived in Britain for a time, and all sorts of fundamentalist insanity would make it into the news. Always, always heart-breaking.

This article's simply one of many:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0707/p06s02-woeu.html

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Igel]

142. No, he's been around since 2002.

He posts extensively in some fora, at least since I've been around (which isn't a year yet).

It's an extension of the I/P debate to Britain, as well as mocking the extensive use of 'freedom fighter' applied to people in Iraq and Afghanistan that want to impose precisely shari'a, whether the 1100 AD version, or a local Pashtun variety.

He's making a point, valid in many ways (although I'm sure that's controvertible), using deeply sarcastic language that's easy for people not familiar with this particular debate to misconstrue.

[Monkie]

57. Just because you need there to be a jihad in britain

doesnt mean the rest of the world shares you need.
We are not meant to enjoy this?
and remember this is LBN on democratic underground where your views are that of tiny minority

[MetaTrope]

88. But the British GAVE them Pakistan!

Of course, some might see that as a formula for destabilization...but still...

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Barrymores Ghost]

105. Your chum is weak...

...and your sarcastic slip is showing.

[HEyHEY]

177. There's either a Ji-had, or there isn't one

There's no "Mini" Jihad

[confludemocrat]

200. The police there are on edge, at highest alert, shits going down bigtime.

A shitstorm has been promised by Jihadists, police have info somethings up. With four bombers and maybe many more on the loose, they are at code red, shoot to kill, "they-will- not-change-our-way-of-life" mode.

[Spider Jerusalem]

4. BBC Five Live: Metropolitan Police say "ongoing situation"...

unclear what sort of ongoing situation at the moment.

[non sociopath skin]

10. Scary report from an eye-witness on BB News 24

... says there was "Mayhem"; lot of people witnessed the man being shot "five times at close range" on the Underground at Stockwell.

News still coming in ..

The Skin

[Guy_Montag]

8. Met announced they have shot someone

at Stockwell.

[rooboy]

11. Edgeware Road's nowhere near Stockwell...

what's going on?

[Guy_Montag]

13. Me being useless & not paying enough attention

don't know where I got Edgeware Rd from.

[lockdown]

9. Eyewitnesses on BBC

Asian man ran into station (or onto platform), pursued by plain clothes police, shot dead in front of witness, shot 5 or 6 times. Wasn't carrying anything, but had thick padded jacket unusual for weather. As witness left the station 20 or so armed uniformed police were rushing in.

[non sociopath skin]

15. BBC Speculating officers may have identified the guy from CCTV footage

The Skin

[whistle]

12. I heard on BBC radio News that four more bombings....

...occurred on the London transportation system, but the devices failed to detonate properly. Was this in addition to those attempts?

[Spider Jerusalem]

14. That was yesterday; this just happened.

[whistle]

16. No shit, I can't find any links to the incident on the internet....

...as of yet.

[Spider Jerusalem]

17. Links here (BBC, Guardian)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1534138,00.html

Audio here (go to "Radio Five Live" and click "listen live"): http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/

Video here (Windows Media): http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsa/n5ctrl/live/bb/wm/video/now4_bb.asx

[whistle]

21. Thanks

[ngGale]

18. It's on Imus now...they are talking about it ...

n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. BBC says Reuters say mosque surrounded by armed police

somewhere in east London. Shit, that makes it a tense situation.

On edit: It's a mosque on the Whitchapel Road. People in the area have been asked to stay inside.

[lockdown]

22. Whitechapel High Street

Local resident on BBC says it's called The East London Mosque, cordoned off but houses not evacuated, police say there are 2 suspect packages in the mosque, dogs brought in. I think she said they took dogs into the mosque, so it doesn't sound like a stand-off situation.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. All clear given at East London mosque

There was a bomb threat phoned to the mosque, and the operation was a reaction to that. This being Friday, major prayers would have been about to go on there.

[non sociopath skin]

27. Yes, suspicious packages but they were safe.

Incident over, says the Beeb.

The Skin

[lockdown]

20. "Armed police have surrounded a mosque in East London"

Just said that on BBC...

[non sociopath skin]

25. The police have lifted the cordon. "False Alarm"...

... according to the BBC.

The Skin

[progressivebydesign]

Scary time to be a Muslim in London. n/t

[bribri16]

23. Bet they shot the wrong guy. n/t

[non sociopath skin]

24. Why do you think that?

On the whole, the Brit police are not trigger-happy.

The Skin

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. I didn't know that they even had

triggers to be happy with? I guess unarmed bobbies must have gone the way of the dinosaur.

[lockdown]

30. There are armed response units,

the average plod still isn't armed, though I'm sure there'll be renewed calls for that to change. Maybe the armed ones aren't trigger happy, but be careful carrying any chair legs...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3965207.stm

[Guy_Montag]

31. The rozzers are still not routinely armed,

only specialist fire-arms officers are armed, though I guess more & more are being trained up.

As NSS says British police are not generally trigger happy. Very rarely do they shoot the wrong person, though under the circumstances...

[demobrit]

68. Flying Squad

These ununiformed Policeman are probably Flying Squad officers ,an elite department of the Met Police who are usually armed.

[420inTN]

158. Sounds more like "Firing Squad" n/t

[bribri16]

219. Now that the Brits have apoligized for killing an innocent person

I can tell you that I thought that from the beginning because none of the terrorists have really been caught. They would not call attention to themselves by running through the metro. It sounded to me like a guy who jumped the turnstyle in order to not miss the train. Happens all the time in US metros. AND, the Brits are as desperate as we are to prove that they are on top of fighting terrorism so they will be making many mistaken arrests and killings. The only reason the US has not been hit yet is because they haven't really tried yet, IMHO. They are attacking every one of our allies to prove a point: that they can.
We are losing this battle eventhough we are killing many people. Bush regime has opened up a can of worms with this ill-defined and ill-thought-out war on terrorism and their illegal and unnecessary invasion of Iraq. The terrorist even have us HATING OURSELVES FOR OUR FREEDOMS ala the Patriot Act. Only people who hate their own freedom would condone the Patriot Act as it stands today. The people who voted for Bush and who support him now are in total denial. They really can't believe how wrong they were and how wrong they continue to be.

[HEyHEY]

165. REports I've seen say they shot the only guy that didn't

Stop when asked to

[bribri16]

220. See my latest comment. n/t

[Mr Creosote]

28. Eye witness reports on 5 live

suggest 2 people arrested near Westminster - one with a backpack. But the witness is a cabbie.

[Mr.Green93]

33. Sounds like an Execution

of someone who may have surrendered.

[alcibiades_mystery]

36. No, it doesn't sound at all like that

It sounds like the guy was trying desperately to get to a train so he could kill a bunch of people. And instead he was shot, and prevented from killing a bunch of people. Are you reading the same article? Execution my ass.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WoodrowFan]

52. we get those sometimes

Welcome to the DU. We do get a small handful of what the RW calls "blame the US first" types. Most of us ignore them because, frankly, anyone who thinks a sucide bomber in Britain is a "freedom fighter" is morally so far beyond help they're not worth arguing with.... I just hit "alert" and let the mods deal with it...

[Sterling]

201. The poster was one of your guys, not ours.

And yes there is an us/them on DU.

[High Plains]

169. Did he have a bomb?

it might be prudent to wait for more information...

[alarcojon]

84. This paragraph supports your theory

from the BBC article:

One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him.

The Yahoo story adds that He looked like a cornered fox. He looked petrified.

If these stories are accurate, I have a problem with it. But I'll wait till more facts come in.

[Englander]

37. BBC - Man shot dead by police on Tube

' A man has been shot dead by armed officers at Stockwell Tube station, as police hunt four would-be bombers.

Passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers" with a handgun.

"I saw the gun being fired five times into the guy - he is dead," he said.

Passengers were evacuated from the Northern Line station in south London. The incident followed four minor explosions in the capital on Thursday.

Police have cordoned off a 200-metre area around Stockwell station. '




http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

[evermind]

48. Police told The Times it was one of yesterday's bombers

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1704399,00.html

"The man shot dead by police at a South London Tube station this morning is believed to be one of the bombers who escaped after yesterday's failed quadruple attack across London, police sources have told The Times."

The same article notes (right at the end) :

A statement posted today on an Islamic website in the name of an al-Qaeda-linked group claimed responsibility for the latest blasts. The group, Abu Hafs al Masri Brigade, also claimed responsibility for the July 7 bombings which killed 52 people and four suicide bombers.

The statement’s authenticity could not be immediately verified.

[evermind]

168. UPDATE: The Times changed their mind on this + new arrest.

(the quoted paragraph has gone from the story) and BBC are reporting being told definitively he was not one of the four suspects whose photos have been released.

The Times are now simply quoting top policeman Ian Blair that the shooting was "linked" to the investigation of yesterday's bombing attempts, while the BBC have been told the man shot was "directly linked" to the attempts.

Additionally, "BBC crime correspondent Neil Bennett says the man was under surveillance as a result of evidence gathered from the scenes of the four attempted bombings."

Meanwhile the BBC that in addition to the shooting, "Scotland Yard has confirmed a man has been arrested in the Stockwell area in connection with ongoing inquiries."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

[Domitan]

49. Here's the Yahoo article

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050722/ap_on_re_eu/britain_underground

From what I read, it does sound like an overkill...shooting him 5 times while he's down and caught. I can understand the fear and anxiety and wanting to make sure that a potential suicide bomber does not set it off...but seriously, I wonder if it could be better handled or contained. Sad to see the UK police becoming more like the USA police.

[RawMaterials]

51. Well at least we got our distraction so they

could re-sign the PA.

[Spider Jerusalem]

58. Absurdity and nonsense.

No other word for it. Can't imagine Bush picking up the phone and ringing up Blair and saying "Hey, Tony...we need a distraction. Kill a Muslim for us, would you?" :eyes:

[Maddy McCall]

61. LOL!

Ridiculous, isn't it. :eyes:

[lynne]

53. Possibly they wanted him dead -

- to make sure he had no opportunity to detonate whatever explosives he may have been carrying?

[Domitan]

54. I've thought that

but if it's found that he has nothing...a very dark stain on the police.

[Nihil]

56. Not to mention the platform ...

OK ... I know ... :spank:

[reprobate]

147. That's right. Blame the police. Whatever nation they are in.

He was a suspected suicide bomber. If you were chasing him, with the idea that he had a bomb stapped to him, would you offer him a chance to detonate it, or would you take any opportunity to remove his ability to cause harm to those you've sworn to defend?

Well, I've been in a similar, of course not identical, situation. Fortunately the armed perpetrater released his hostage and disarmed himself at the threat of four deputies with weapons trained.

The london bobbies did not have the same opportunity to offer the criminal a chance to disarm. If he was a suicide bomber, that would have meant many deaths.

But some here seem to want to blame the police, whatever the circumstance. And having lived there for several years, I can tell you that there are no more polite and courteous people than the British police forces.

[High Plains]

171. Chill out

The poster said "if" it turned out there was no bomb on the guy, it would be a stain on the police.

Maybe there was a bomb. I don't know yet. Do you?

But maybe there wasn't a bomb. In that case, it would be the police shooting to death someone merely because he disobeyed them.

We don't want suicide bombers getting on trains, but we don't want police gunning down people based on jittery nerves, either.

[gandalf]

55. or to remove an inconvenient witness ...nt

[Algorem]

60. I wonder how long the other 3 have to live?Quite odd.

Quite quite quite.

[gandalf]

73. These terrorists have a tendency to die quickly...

all the 911 hijackers are dead, many of the Madrid train bombings suspects blew themselves up (allegedly) when the police tried to arrest them...

Here in Germany, some years ago, we had a case where an alleged RAF terrorist (Wolfgang Grams) was to be arrested, tried to flee, and was shot. Police said, suicid, but that seemed impossible. Looked like execution. Finally, our minister of the Interior had to resign (Rudolf Seiters).

[Algorem]

76. the words "knew too much" come to mind for some reason

[Monkie]

79. i remember the alleged RAF terrorist "incident"

good of you to bring it up and jog our collective memories

[Maddy McCall]

63. Makes sense to me.

[Guaranteed]

74. Is that the standard now? We kill people for the weapons

they may or may not be carrying?

[Guaranteed]

59. I thought English police don't carry guns.

And...this guy just ran from them wearing a thick coat, and they killed him?

Here in the U.S., this use of deadly force wouldn't have even been justified, from the information I've seen.

[lynne]

62. From what I'm hearing -

- he was a suspect from yesterday and was being watched by police. He was followed from his house - wearing a padded coat in warm weather - to the subway. He would not stop when the police asked him to do so - began to run - jumped the turnstile and entered a train.

He was a suspect, didn't stop, entered a train under suspicious circumstances. They would have shot him in the US, too.

BTW, reports are that he was NOT carrying explosives.

[Maddy McCall]

64. Oh shit.

Where are you hearing this?

[lynne]

67. Listening to Fox as I'm getting ready for work -

- and no remarks about it being Fox. ;-)

[Maddy McCall]

69. No remarks from me...

I'm a news surfer...I watch all channels. :D

[WoodrowFan]

71. just don't forget

the detox procedure afterwards. ;)

[Sterling]

203. I will remark.

Fox is not a legit source. The fact you even watch it much less try using it as a source speaks ill of you.

[lynne]

210. Oh, baloney -

- since it's not a "legit" source, you might want to post links that contradict the information I posted from their reports.

I surf the news and if Fox has something or someone that is of interest, I watch it. I'm a big girl and can sift between what is news and what is rhetoric.

I find it ironic that some here at DU - of all places - feel it acceptable to profile others based upon what channel their TV happens to be turned to.

[evermind]

65. Ordinary patrolling police don't carry guns. But there are "armed

response units" who are used in various situations (of course!), but need to be specifically authorised (they are sometimes used to "guard" things, not just in response to incidents.)

[Guy_Montag]

66. There will be a public inquiry by the independent

police complaints commission.

btw would you run away from armed police after yesterday?

[demobrit]

70. "I thought English police don't carry guns."

This is a misconception.

[President Kerry]

196. BUT under the circumstances...

I'm certainly not quick to pin this on the police. The guy would have to be an idiot to disobey an order from the police in London after all that's happened.

[High Plains]

202. Although there would be plenty of posters here ready to justify it

[Sterling]

204. And they like Fox news too, imagine?

And they haunt a place called Democratic Underground, Hmm. I wonder why?

[StrafingMoose]

72. Here in Canada..

The national TV's website (Radio-Canada.ca) notes that the guy who got shot was Asian looking with no ruksack but "unusually thick" coat.

No quite your typical jihadist looking guy. Unless yea, he might be one of those Chinese muslims up north Afghanistan... :eyes:

[Mr Creosote]

75. Depends on how you define "asian"

here someone with roots on the sub-continent is called "asian". WHich is why one of the eye-witnesses also described him as looking "Pakistani".

[StrafingMoose]

87. I see.

[Algorem]

89. maybe there IS such a thing as "the fashion police"?

[Algorem]

77. His clothes were too big,ey?Is this the guy?:

I knew there wasn't something right about this guy.

[PunkPop]

93. "Letting the days go by

Letting the armed guys shoot me down..."

[seriousstan]

80. London Police Kill Man at Subway Station

LONDON (AP) - Police shot and killed a man wearing a thick coat at a London subway station Friday, a day after the city was hit by its second wave of terrorist attacks in two weeks.

The man died after being shot by officers at the Stockwell subway station in south London, police said.

Passengers said a man, described as South Asian, ran onto a train at Stockwell station in south London. Witnesses said police chased him, he tripped, and police then shot him.

"They pushed him onto the floor and unloaded five shots into him. He's dead," witness Mark Whitby told the British Broadcasting Corp. "He looked like a cornered fox. He looked petrified."

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050722/D8BGECE01.html

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emad]

83. ALWAYS BUY A TICKET!

So the cops executed him. Guess no one wanted him to testify.

[gandalf]

85. These things happen sometimes. As in Germany with RAF "terrorist" Grams

The public prosecutor has closed the investigation against two men of the anti-terrorist unit GSG-9, suspected of having executed the alleged 'RAF'-terrorist Wolfgang Grams. Grams died in a shoot-out with strong police forces in the East German town of Bad Kleinen, last June (see FECL No.17, p.1; No.21, p.10).

According to the conclusions of the investigation, Grams deliberately killed himself with his own weapon on June 27. The prosecutor's findings are based on an legal-medical and technical expertise of the police in Zurich (Switzerland), as well as "trustworthy witnesses". The declarations of two witnesses of the shoot-out according to which Grams was shot in cold blood by two police officers were full of gaps, contradictory and unconclusive, the prosecutor said....
Half a year after the events at Bad Kleinen, the findings of the public prosecutor's office have put a formal end - for the time being - to a scandal that once threatened to turn into a serious "state crisis", as the German weekly Der Spiegel warned. Bad Kleinen led to the resignation of two leading figures of German "internal security" policies - Interior Minister, Rudolf Seiters, and the Federal Prosecutor General, Alexander von Stahl. Yet, it failed in producing the sort of public indignation and uproar that entailed the purge of a system of government based on plotting, secrecy, and corruption in Italy.

Once again, Germany has missed a chance to submit its omnipotent police apparatus to long due "democratic screening". Thus, continued rise of the German "Security state" seems irresistible.


Source

[emad]

90. Hi Gandalf, good to see you posting again.

I guess in the UK where there's no capital puishment the cops are going to assert their musclepower in times such as this.

[gandalf]

91. Hi emad...

I guess the whole story has something to do with deep black ops, where normal rules don't exist.

Well, posting frequency... I'm extremely busy in the real world at the moment...but I check regularly for your posts on BCCI and similar topics.

[leesa]

92. They better get that P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act passed soon!

[MattSWin]

94. Man shot dead by police in London Tube

A man has been shot dead by police at Stockwell Tube station in south London, as officers hunt four bombing suspects.

"I saw an Asian guy run onto the train hotly pursued by three plain-clothes police officers.

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him.

"I saw the gun being fired five times into the guy - he is dead," he said.


BBC Home affairs correspondent Margaret Gilmore said officers had challenged a known suspect they had been following.

"He ran, they followed him. They say they gave him a warning, they then shot him.

BBC crime correspondent Neil Bennett said the suspect was being followed as a result of CCTV footage seen by officers investigating Thursday's explosions.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706787.stm

[tk2kewl]

95. They shot him after they had stopped him?!

[WoodrowFan]

98. if they thought he had a bomb..

then it may be the only way to stop him from denotating it. See the BBC site for some details, including a map of the station...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706787.stm

[bushisanidiot]

104. No, they piled on top of him THEN shot him. Sounds like a hit job to me.

the guy should have been tried and given punishment according to the law.

[SteppingRazor]

109. Alternatively...

It's a bunch of police officers showing incredible bravery by throwing themselves on top of a suicide bomber, and then shooting him before he could blow himself up. From that point of view, they were willing to sacrifice themselves for the innocent people on the train.

Of course, if the man didn't have a bomb and this was not, as the police claim, the end result of an investigation (i.e. they didn't know for certain he had a bomb), then the point of view I just discribed is utter bullsh!t and the cops should be fired at the very least, possibly jailed.

[bushisanidiot]

121. The police claim he was "directly linked" to the bombings in London

this yahoo story doesn't say anything about the guy wearing a bomb vest. why would they say he was "directly linked" and didn't mention that he was a suicide bomber with a vest strapped to him?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050722/ap_on_re_eu/britain_underground_21;_ylt=AjkY2DM2MvH8kdDTYMZ39Qm9Q5gv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[progressivebydesign]

163. Once again I ask, why would they shoot a guy that might have been wired?

I mean.. do I know nothing about explosives? Is it standard procedure to shoot someone five times that might have some type of explosive on their body? Isn't that what we are led to believe by the reports he was wearing "a thick coat" on a 70 degree day?

[daleo]

180. Directly linked?

Did I miss the trial?

[MattSWin]

112. Are you kidding?

If the police think a guy is armed with a bomb should they ask him nicely to not detonate it? How should they have stopped the guy? Wait until he detonated it?

[WoodrowFan]

115. they apologize to him for Western Imperialism

THAT shoudl do it. :eyes:

[bushisanidiot]

116. If they have piled on top of him, there's no "asking nicely" to be done

they've already stopped him and they can remove him from the train. unless the guy had the trigger in his mouth or under his eyelids..

:P

[MattSWin]

122. The trigger could've been in his hand...

Are you saying no suicide bomber would wait until police or soldiers grab them to detonate a bomb?

[bushisanidiot]

139. I don't see where it says this guy had a bomb at all. reports are saying

he was wearing a heavy jacket and carrying a bag. none of the eyewitnesses have reported seeing any wires or anything strapped to him.. and seem to be confused as to why he was shot 5 times.

[MattSWin]

143. .......

Another passenger on the train, Anthony Larkin, told BBC News the man had been wearing a "bomb belt with wires coming out".

[bushisanidiot]

150. Why isn't the "bomb-belt" mentioned in the reports? that's a significant

piece of info they're leaving out there..

instead of "man shot dead by police" wouldn't it be a little more accurate to say "man with bomb strapped to his body shot dead by police"????!!!

i wonder if AWOL Bush asks Jeffie Gannon to "frisk" him first before Jeffie gives him the "bomb". what do you think?

[progressivebydesign]

164. I read witness accoutns that said "no bag" just a big jacket. n/t

[High Plains]

173. If the police think a guy is armed with a bomb...

they better be damned sure before they execute him.

As far as I know at this point, he was not carrying a bomb.

What does seem clear is that he was deliberately killed--shot repeatedly while on the ground.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

128. Not to mention interrogated for information

Dead men tell no tales, after all.

[MattSWin]

132. dead men also don't...

Detonate bombs. Is information worth the risk of another bomb going off?

[Tyrone Slothrop]

136. If the information exposed the entire cell that's causing this

And led to their capture and punishment, then yes. It's worth a hell of a lot more.

And, if the 7/7 explosives were detonated remotely (or with timers), then how would killing the guy have prevented a detonation?

If his Controller decided that the time was now or if the timer had reached it's zero, the bomb would have gone off -- dead or alive.

[MattSWin]

144. Hindsight....

They had seconds to react so I doubt they sat around and reasoned everything out. However the reports said he had a bomb belt so I doubt it'd be on a timer.

[Tyrone Slothrop]

153. Why would a bomb on a belt be less likely

to be activated by a timer or a remote device than one in a backpack?

[muriel_volestrangler]

160. Because when a man puts on a belt

he's going to say "where's the switch"? He knows he's meant to die; you're hardly going to convince him that the idea is for him to put on a belt, and then inconspicuously remove it and step away from it. If the carrier is willing to die, having him trigger it makes more sense - he can react to what's going on, a delay in a train, etc. A device in a backpack, however, might be designed (or you could convince the carrier that it is designed) to be left, and then detonated by remote control or timer.

[daleo]

181. What if he is just an innocent subway user?

Who panicked when he thought police were going to kill him? Should the police now tackle and shoot anyone they suspect, just to be on the safe side?

[progressivebydesign]

107. Ummm if he was wired wouldn't the BULLETS detonate it???

I mean.. I wonder about the intelligence of shooting a supposedly bombladen man from close range. WOuldn't you be setting the bombs off??? Just askin'

The whole thing sounds fishy to me.

[SteppingRazor]

114. No, you wouldn't.

A bomb needs a detonating device. Unless its extremely unstable (like, say, nitro glycerin), shooting an explosive will not cause it to go up.
If you fire a bullet into plastic explosives, a fertilizer bomb, or even TNT (provided it's not very old), it will do nothing except make a hole, no matter what the movies tell you.

[WoodrowFan]

120. thank you

wow, actual facts instead of wild speculation. thanks! :yourock:

[Sterling]

206. Really?

So far your team is speculating that
A. There was a bomb
B. This man was a terrorist


So far there is nothing confirming either of these assertions.

[allemand]

124. That's why they probably shot him in the head.

Officers would be trained to aim for the head as shots to the torso could trigger a hidden explosive device, he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4706787.stm

[anotherdrew]

111. if he were wearing a bomb vest couldn't the bullets detonate the explosive

I'd hate to take that risk, they couldn't have known what he had under that big coat.

[MattSWin]

119. Maybe they shot him in the upper body...

And/or head.

[Barrymores Ghost]

113. Of course, if a bullet hits some C-5, GAME OVER...

...I don't buy it. This sounds like an execution. Either you had a bunch of juiced, pissed-off cops, or they didn't want this guy talking to ANYONE.

[SteppingRazor]

117. If you're refering to C-4 (plastic explosives)...

bullets won't make it detonate.

[Barrymores Ghost]

125. To quote Mr Mom: "Yeah...220, 221 - whatever it takes..."

Mea culpa. I'm not a munitions expert, so I'll defer to the expertise of others.

Seems to me though, if the guys strapped with high explosives, and you don't know the composition, it's probably not prudent to lay into him with multiple rounds. If he's on the deck, then you've also got the ricochet issue. But again, I'm just curious to know why, specifically, they decided to zap this dude after they had him pinned to the ground.

[SteppingRazor]

127. Just because he's on the ground doesn't mean he's not a threat...

Even with a pile of officers on him, if he had a simple triggering device, he could have killed himself and taken all the police with him if the device was in his hand. What's to stop him from doing so, other than a bunch of holes in his head?

On edit: Didn't mean to be nitpicky. Sorry! I don't care so much about the C-4 or C-5 thing. You could call it D-12 for all I care :)
Just making the point that plastic explosives are not so volatile that a gunshot will cause them to explode.

[Barrymores Ghost]

130. I guess that's a question for the investigation and...

...the coroner's inquest, n'est pas?

If this guy was linked, I really don't take issue with him -- or any of his pals -- being dead. I'm just wondering if there was a way to ensure that more of them end up dead, i.e. having a living suspect who can provide information. You have a perfectly valid point, as do I. I guess the proof will eventually turn up in the pudding.

[SteppingRazor]

133. Completely agree.

I am totally, 100% FOR a complete investigation into the death of this alleged bomber. If it turns out that he wasn't strapped and had nothing to do with the bombings, I'll be the first to call for the cops' collective heads.

[MattSWin]

129. I'm betting they thought...

He had a trigger in his hand. Secondly, most bombs require a detonator. Shooting the bomb probably won't set it off. Allowing the guy to hit the trigger will.

The police had seconds to react and their chances were probably better just shooting him, especially if he was wrestling to get away from them.

[Sterling]

209. The police's chances are always better if they can just shoot you in the

head. That includes your average traffic stop. Why not just have police shoot everyone that is doing something they don't like. That would make their job much safer.

[WoodrowFan]

118. not if they shoot him in the head

if here's wearing a bomb vert (and we don't know if he was, some witnesses saw one, some didn't) then shooting him ELSEWHERE won't set off the bomb, sheesh.

[MattSWin]

99. The guy definitely looked like a threat...

He was wearing a large padded winter coat and supposedly a bomb belt with wires. When the police went to confront him he ran and wouldn't stop, and he ran into the train.

[progressivebydesign]

110. Yep. According to witnesses... it was pretty sick.

He was chased down, he tripped, they pushed him back onto the ground and shot him 5 times.

[SteppingRazor]

123. I still fail to see the big deal here.

If the man had a bomb on him, plus a triggering device ready to detonate it, I'd shoot him myself. No questions asked. What're they gonna do? Wait for him to put down the triggering device when they know he's a SUICIDE bomber?

[MattSWin]

126. I doubt the biggest civil libertarian will protest this...

Everything I've read about this screams that this guy was up to something.

[SteppingRazor]

131. Of course the biggest civil libertarian won't... Hell I AM the biggest!

I am stridently against anti-gun laws, anti-drug laws, etc. and really, really, super-duper against overzealous, jack-booted police officers who abuse their power and privilege.
But that's just not the case here.
It's just amazing that this is the second time in as many days that I've found myself defending f'ing cops. It boggles the mind.

[MattSWin]

134. Razor....

I support the police using force when it's justified like in this case.

[SteppingRazor]

137. Oh, so do I...

I just find that, more often than not, police use force when it's not justified by a long shot. I've always had a bit of an anti-authoritarian streak, but after covering the FTAA protests in Miami in 2003 and watching the cops beat and maim everyone they could get their hands on, I really got twisted.

[reprobate]

151. I think you'll find that the British police generally don't fall into the

same category as those at the miami protests. That was, in my mind at least, a police riot authorized by the administration of miami.

I know of no more courteous and considered police than those in britain and those in london in particular.

[evermind]

155. They have shot a few innocent and unarmed people, though. (nt)

[Bragi]

161. Sorry, this doesn't add up...

IF the guy had a bomb strapped to him, then the police would have been keen to indicate that this was the case. The fact that they aren't indicating this suggests that they found no bomb on him.

As for whether it is suspicious to be wearing a heavy jacket on a hot day, there are homeless (and some just plain weird) people in every major city who dress like that every day of the year.

As for the man being "directly linekd" to yesterday's bombings, the police have said that they haven't yet identified the dead man, so how could they know what he was linked to?

The original statement I heard was that the police who did the shooting were linked to the ongoing terror probe, not that the guy they shot was linked to yesterday's bomb plot.

This thing doesn't smell right. I'll wager that by the end of the day the police will be indicating they guy wasn't linked to anything, and announcing an inquiry into the shooting.

- B

[SteppingRazor]

174. For the record...

As stated in a previous post of mine, I am FOR an investigation into this shooting. Completely for it. All I'm saying is if the guy had a bomg and planned to use it, and if the cops knew that, then they are in the right. If not, then they're not.

[evermind]

140. IF you KNOW that, and have had no previous chance to apprehend

the guy, sure. But those are three pretty big imponderables right now.

[rjbcar27]

141. Nor do I mate.

Bloke in a heavy jacket, already under surveillance, won't stop when asked to do so, runs off and into a tube train... Shoot the fucker. Can't mess around at the moment.

[High Plains]

175. Cops shoot man lying on ground five times, killing him...

and you fail to see the big deal?

If he was placing others in imminent danger by carrying/attempting to explode a bomb, then police will be congratulated.

But if it turns out the police are resorting to gunning down innocent people, yes, it is a very big deal.

[Guckert]

96. i thought O'Rielly said the English were pussies??? one more thing to add

to his stellar resume of stupid comments and lies.

[dogindia]

194. kick

[dogindia]

195. kick

[brooklynite]

101. London Transport reporting "Security Alert" (8:08 EDT)

The Metropolitan Line has no service between Moor Park Station and Watford Station in both directions. This will affect journeys from 13:08 on 22/07/05 until further notice. This is due to a security alert at Watford Station.

http://map.tfl.gov.uk/realtime.asp
- - -
This is a branch line NW of London. Anyone know what's going on?

[Barrymores Ghost]

102. That's whatcha get for jumpin' da' turnstile, Bo-yo!!

OKay...I'm not one to ascribe ulterior motives to the London police, because, hey, they wear these really cute hats...but if they wanted him dead so he wouldn't detonate a bomb, wouldn't it have made more sense to pop a cap in his ass while he was running -- say, from a bit of a distance? Could it be they didn't want anyone alive to interrogate?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that once they got him on the ground, they saw he was wired...but, really, it sounds like an assassination if you ask me. Guess you don't want to piss off a cop, period.

As they say, a pint's a pound the world around.

[evermind]

138. Shooting a running man in a crowd is pretty risky in terms

of collateral damage.

But if (as someone posted above) they'd followed him from his home, I'd have thought they could have stopped him before he got to a tube station... but who knows? Just have to wait until the full official story is released and see how it stacks up then, I suppose.

Also, the anonymous police sources that told the Times and other media that he was one of yesterday's four would-be bombers were presumably wrong, given that police have now released cctv photos of all four suspects (there wouldn't be much of a point, I'm assuming, in releasing a photo of a suspect they've just shot).

[pelsar]

146. targeted killing...

nope its clear that it was a target killing.....

[evermind]

148. No idea what you mean. What are you disagreeing with, and

what do you mean by "target killing"?

[reprobate]

152. Read the report more carefully. It said they chased him onto the train,

where he tripped and went down, that's when he was shot. They didn't shoot a "running man in a crowd".

[evermind]

154. Yep, I know they didn't shoot a running man.. If they HAD, it

would have been risky, was what I was saying.

If you read the post I was replying to, specifically where it says: "wouldn't it have made more sense to pop a cap in his ass while he was running -- say, from a bit of a distance?", perhaps you'd better understand what I said.. :-)

[Scurrilous]

145. AIM WAS TO ARREST MAN

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1189947,00.html

<snip>

"Specialist officers had been tailing the man shot at Stockwell Tube station from his home, says Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt.

Police believed the Asian man was responsible for an attempted attack on the nearby Oval Tube on Thursday and had set up surveillance on him.

Brunt said officers had followed the man from his home and that the initial plan was to arrest him.

But from his home to Stockwell Tube, events overtook police and marksmen were forced to shoot."

<snip>

"Initial examinations though, said Brunt, did not discover any explosives on the suspect."

[Algorem]

156. Maybe he had a stick of dynamite up himself.That's called "The O'Reilly

Method" in terrorist lingo.

[progressivebydesign]

166. "events overtook police"?? Not according to witnesses.

They had him down and surrounded and basically shot him execution style. I have no sympathies for bombers and murders. Zero. Having said that, it's chilling to read how this man was killed, considering he was only a suspect, and was carrying nothing with him. If he was wired with explosives, they never would have shot him.. or jumped on him, would they? I think that emotions are running high over there right now... and I guess the police are erring on the side of caution, but the witnesses said it was horrific overkill.

[daleo]

182. Couldn't they arrested him before he got to the tube station?

There must have been lots of other opportunities to arrest him on the walk to the station.

[Sterling]

214. "marksmen"

It takes a marksmen to shoot a guy point blank with a handgun?

[Az_lefty]

157. Sounds like the Brit's have a handle on this...

we need these guy running our Homeland Security not the witless idiots we now have.

[evermind]

159. I dunno - if they were trying to arrest him all the way from

his home to the tube station (as per the post above yours), and ended up killing him on the tube train, their (actually: "our", since I'm British) grip on that handle sounds pretty loose and slippy to me.

In terms of the intelligence that could have been gained from an interrogation it must be a major fuckup.

[daleo]

162. Dead men tell no tales

Whether or not they wanted this to happen, he won't be much of a witness now. That is bad on many grounds.

[HEyHEY]

170. I'll offer my extremely ignorant view

AS I know nothing of policing.
I think they were probably keeping six on him, which is why they followed him, then they realized he was getting on the tube. Maybe they hadn't planned to arrest him just yet, but realized he had a bomb on him at the last minute.

[evermind]

172. Yep, could well be (except he didn't turn out to have a bomb

of course - but they couldn't really know that).

[HEyHEY]

176. Yeah, pardon me

I wonder why he was wearing a heavy coat though.

[Bragi]

167. Man shot dead was not a bomber -Sky News

LONDON (Reuters) - A man shot dead by police at a London Underground station on Friday was not one of the four bombers who tried to attack the city's transport system on Thursday, Sky Television reported citing security sources.

"This is what I am picking up from security sources that the man who was shot this morning at Stockwell tube wasn't one of those four bombers that police are hunting," Sky reporter Martin Brunt said.

A spokesman for London's Metropolitan Police said only: "the gentleman shot at Stockwell today has yet to be identified, so it would be impossible to link him to anything at this stage."

Police shot the man a day after four attempted bomb attacks in London and 15 days after bombers killed more than 50 people in the British capital.

Police said the shooting was part of an operation directly linked to an "anti-terrorist" probe.

They said they were still looking for four men in connection with Thursday's attacks, which caused chaos but killed no one.


-----------------

Which confirms, in my view, that this doesn't smell right. I think the cops made a big mistake here.

- B

[underthedome]

178. We don't know enough to say if they made a mistake. nm

nm

[confludemocrat]

197. We know they haven't justified it after what, 18 hrs? looking like mistake

he remains unidentified. Bizarre.

[daleo]

183. So he was a hapless subway rider?

He may have just panicked at the sight of police.

[bixente]

179. It disappoints me that something like this is getting so much coverage

This incident is nothing, nothing compared to what Iraqis have to deal with, but this happens, and it's given front-page headlines, lots of coverage on news channels, ect. and stories from Iraq are given meagre attention, even though what happens there is far, far worse.

[bassman79]

184. London Police kill 'suicide bomber'

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16015042%255E23109,00.html

Police kill 'suicide bomber'
From staff writers with wire services
July 22, 2005

POLICE have shot and killed a man, suspected of being one of the bombers who attacked trains and a bus yesterday, at Stockwell Tube station in south London.

"We can confirm that just after 10am (1900 AEST) armed officers entered Stockwell Tube station," a police spokesman said.

"A man was challenged by officers and subsequently shot ... He was pronounced dead at the scene."

Police later said the man who had been shot was suspected of being one of the bombers who attacked London trains and a bus yesterday, Reuters reported.

or not....

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-22T162522Z_01_EIC258403_RTRUKOC_0_SECURITY-BRITAIN-SHOT.xml

Man shot dead was not a bomber -Sky
Fri Jul 22, 2005 5:25 PM BST

LONDON (Reuters) - A man shot dead by police at a London Underground station on Friday was not one of the four bombers who tried to attack the city's transport system on Thursday, Sky Television reported citing security sources.

"This is what I am picking up from security sources that the man who was shot this morning at Stockwell tube wasn't one of those four bombers that police are hunting," Sky reporter Martin Brunt said.

...
Police said the shooting was part of an operation directly linked to an "anti-terrorist" probe.

They said they were still looking for four men in connection with Thursday's attacks, which caused chaos but killed no one.

[LiberalVoice]

185. So who the hell is the guy? nt

[bassman79]

187. He's related to an "anti-terrorim" operation...

Ha!!!
(Pounding fist on desk, eyes watering from laughter)

[progressivebydesign]

186. Well that is completely confusing...

I'd take a stab that the guy was not a 'suicide' bomber, as he was still alive when they shot him to death. Now they say he is not one of the four they were seeking? Will we ever know the truth? Would any of you shoot a man, in a public facility, if you believed he was wired to explode? I'll await more details on this one. It smells bad.

[El Supremo]

188. An eyewitness I heard on NPR this morning said...

That the bobby held him down on the floor and pumped 7 shots into him. Is that how they arrest people in Britain?

[StrafingMoose]

191. Bobbies don't carry guns I think?

[StrafingMoose]

189. More over..

apparently they PUSHED the guy onto the ground and THEN proceded to empty 5 shots in him.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/21/world/main710821.shtml

"They pushed him onto the floor and unloaded five shots into him. He's dead. He looked like a cornered fox. He looked petrified."
Mark Whitby, witness to Friday's subway shooting

[MidwestTransplant]

193. If you really think the guy is wired, the only to keep him from

having the opportunity to blow himself up is to kill him. Pobably shooting him in the head would have been safest.

[confludemocrat]

198. He could be bomber, explosive only good for short while, maybe failed

But police didn't know for sure. Israelis say a suicide bomber must be killed-only way to stop the detonation.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hel]

190. But, did they found any explosives on him?

No report on that yet. If there were none, and he was shot dead while lying on the ground, just because he was panicky and looked suspicious wearing a coat in summer, that is a huge scandal.

And I'm thinking if they were bombs, the police would have leaked it to the media by now.

[bassman79]

192. Maybe they didn't want him to talk

[JTHC]

207. Bizarre case

Like all "breaking stories," I would take most initial reports with a grain of salt. So far I've heard that he had a bulky jacket, that had bomb belt with wires, that he was shot in the head, that he was shot in the back, etc. It'll probably be a bit before we find out the real truth (although the BBC lucked out in finding an eyewitness, who seemed credible enough).

[dogindia]

208. extraordinarily shocking

coupled with House okaying 10 more years of Patriot Act and Cheney talking about nuking Iran and Armageddon.

Shooting this man in cold blood is a really bid deal

and what is next here...one bombing here in US and cops are not just searching backpacks on our nyc subways....they are shooting folks.

[Romulus]

212. WashPost says * no bomb* on the guy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/22/AR2005072200254.html

*snip*

Police officials told British reporters that the officers feared that the man, who was wearing a thick coat despite warm weather, had explosives concealed on his body and was about to detonate them amid the crowd in the station. They acknowledged that they found no bomb on the body.

*snip*

Officials said the Friday shooting incident, which occurred about 10 a.m., began when the man emerged from a residence that was under surveillance in connection with the bombing investigation. He spotted the plainclothesmen who were following him and fled into the nearby Stockwell subway station, one stop from the Oval station that was the scene of one of Thursday's explosions.

*snip*

Yassim Egal, 22, said he saw two women apprehended on nearby Harrow Road. "I was shocked by the way they arrested them," he said. "One of them had a shopping bag and a baby. They were very rough with them, shouting, 'Get against the wall.' They were telling everyone else to clear the area. It was really terrible."

The women were later released and police officials gave no explanation for the raid. Witnesses said one of the women was later carried away on a stretcher and taken to an ambulance.

Blair, the police chief, called the investigation "the greatest operational challenge ever faced by the Metropolitan Police Service." His officers, he said at a briefing, "are facing previously unknown threats and great danger. We need the understanding of all communities and the cooperation of all communities. We need calm."

*snip/more*


Any bets on when the concentration camps get started up in ol' England? :eyes:

[daleo]

213. It sounds like either an enormous mistake (negligent as well)

Or a state assassination.

[oscarmitre]

216. Then why wouldn't a "bomb" be found on him ?

No, if it was a tragic mistake then that will come out. The idea that this was some sort of hit is ridiculous. It was too much in the open, too many variables operating. Disavow yourself of conspiracy theories please.

[daleo]

217. Today the story is tragic mistake.

I tend to agree - if it was a hit, they would have planted some evidence right then and there.

I don't believe in conspiracy theories, just theories. The word conspiracy is usually redundant anyway - everything but a lone nutter bomber would have to include a conspiracy of some kind.

[D-Notice]

218. Shot man not connected to bombing

BBC

A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed.

The man, who died at Stockwell Tube on Friday, has been named by police as Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27.

Two other men have been arrested and are being questioned after bombers targeted three Tube trains and a bus.