City seeks ban on (Plant) hallucinogen Salviia

[ElsewheresDaughter]

Myrtle Beach City Council on Thursday discussed asking the S.C. General Assembly for a statewide ban on a hallucinogenic plant that's being sold on Ocean Boulevard.

The herb Salvia divinorum is legally available in many Boulevard stores. It causes euphoria and disorientation through smoking or chewing the leaf, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration Web site.

However, City Council members Thursday spoke of the plant's ill effects on teenagers who are looking for a legal high.

"Kids are really getting messed up on this stuff," Councilwoman Susan Grissom Means told council members, many of who had not heard of the plant and its extracts.

The council will vote on the request Tuesday night at the Ted C. Collins Law Enforcement Center. The S.C. General Assembly won't pass additional legislation until it reconvenes in January.

However, council members said they may soon vote to make sale of the plant illegal in city limits.


about Salvia...very nice site
http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia.shtml

BOTANICAL CLASSIFICATION

Family :Lamiaceae (Former: Labiatae)
Genus :Salvia
Species :divinorum; splendens
COMMON NAMESSka Pastora; Shepherdess's Herb; ska Maria Pastora; yerba de Maria; Sally-
DEFFECTS CLASSIFICATION
Atypical Psychedelic

DESCRIPTION
Salvia divinorum is a sprawling perennial herb which grows wild only in the Sierra Mazatec region of Mexico. It's leaves contain the extremely potent salvinorin-A. It has a history of use as a divinatory psychedelic for oral use and has been widely available since the mid 1990s primarily as a smoked herb. Its effects are considered unpleasant by many people.


http://www.sagewisdom.org/

[Lochloosa]

1. If it makes you feel good....it must be bad for you

my wife grows this because she thinks it's a nice plant...little does she know....

[ElsewheresDaughter]

36. here's the article link

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/12195087.htm

[whistle]

2. Was this the "Fire Plant" that became famous in Central Florida

...during the 1990's in Maitland and Winter Park, staunch conservative, right wing, republican communities where the teenagers of prominent families were using this plant as their drug of choice?

[tk2kewl]

3. is that the one where kids were wondering around town and

ending up naked in the pond or something? :shrug:

[whistle]

6. Yes, among other very bizarre behaviors and of the course the

...parents were saying among themselves over their property fences while watering these plants, "Man, we never took any great shit like that! I wonder what it is?"

[Dogmudgeon]

4. Is this possible?

I mean, it's just sage, as in "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme." With a little work, I would guess any kind of Salvia could be cultivated to produce the psychedelic in Divinorum.

Making the sale of Salvia Divinorum illegal is probably the easiest way to go. Users won't be hassled, and nobody's going to bust the local Winn-Dixie for having an illegal herb section.

--p!
Free Mrs. Dash!

[Up2Late]

20. I wonder if it goes well on Pizza or in Spaghetti sauce?

:think:Talk about spicing up a party!

[Zhade]

39. No, and it's definitely NOT a party drug.

NT!

[LifeDuringWartime]

45. it is only one specific species

http://www.sagewisdom.org/

[ElsewheresDaughter]

49. a salvia trip image.

[Carni]

81. Wait a minute...is salvia Sage? I have Russian sage and regular sage

I thought IT was called Salvia?

Or did I eat enough of it that I am tripping now? LOL

[Up2Late]

5. Looks like a little editing needed, looks like you Pasted some twice

The first 6 lines repeat.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

7. opps , i fixed it...thank you

[OfireitupO]

8. It'll be made illegal in Congress too

Why not just make nature illegal? This country is becoming more backwards everyday.

Whatever, if people want ridiculous laws they can have them and vote for them, but when the government comes for them I wont be fighting for their rights.

Salvia wont hurt people - JAIL will hurt people , something these white folks in ties will never understand - because they are career politicians and dont know a damn thing about being human or free.

[SteppingRazor]

9. Eh, so what? Salvia Divinorum sucks.

I don't see what the big deal is. This stuff doesn't do crap. Just leaves you feeling a little "heady" -- and that's the good stuff. The Salvia version of "regs" does nothing. The plant is nothing compared to potent strains of marijuana. Banning it is probably a good thing for the drug-consuming community -- it'll make them go back to weed.

[OfireitupO]

11. I agree to a point

I did it a couple times and decided I like weed better and didnt really like Salvia. Thats no excuse for it to be made illegal. Criminalizing a plant is fascist.

The big deal is that once they make one thing illegal they go after other things and so on because no one speaks up about it.

[SteppingRazor]

17. Then we should be demanding legality of marijuana as well...

for the record, I'm for complete drug legalization, so you're preaching to the choir here.
Although it's a bit overblown to say criminalizing a plant is fascist, no? I'd just go with "Stupid" or "ignorant" or even "religiously insane." :)

[K-W]

16. You cant compare pot and salvia

Almost literally like comparing apples and oranges.

Salvia when used properly produces a short extremely intense trip. It isnt a drug to take for intoxication purposes.

But generally speaking, short intense trips are bad news for most people.

[SteppingRazor]

19. Not for intoxication purposes?

What other purpose is there?
And I've tried salvia both smoking and in teas, and I found very little effect.

[K-W]

21. You dont do salvia to get a buzz.

You do salvia to hallucinate.

I was just trying to draw a destinction between getting high and tripping, they are indeed both forms of intoxication.

Were you using an extract? You have to do alot fast to get the right effects.

[SteppingRazor]

22. Ah, OK then...

Thought I was going to be arguing the reverse side of the "tripping as religious experience" debate. In the acid world, there are Timothy Learys and there are Ken Keseys. I'm a Kesey. In any case, maybe I just didn't take enough, though I did do an awful lot, and I got my Salvia from a trustworthy source. I wouldn't mind trying it again, I'm just not -- at this point -- convinced of its efficacy.

[K-W]

25. Heh, no worries, Im one of the least mystical people you could encounter.

I actually havent tried Salvia, though Ive grown it a little. But I know enough people who have tried it to know that it works.

Im not terribly interested in trying it, although I probably will before it gets illegal. It is supposedly not that great because of the intense and non-euphoric nature of the trip.

[Zhade]

41. You're exactly right, K-W.

This is not for "getting high" (for one thing, the effects are short-lived).

And you're also correct that one needs to use enhanced extracts to really feel it.

[Carni]

82. I need to start eating the various shit around my yard lol

Maybe I will happen onto something entertaining (Under this bush reich it can't hurt LOL... that's just a joke /sort of)

[LifeDuringWartime]

46. then you did it wrong

n/t

[puerco-bellies]

54. Correct!

When I still got high this was the last psychedelic drug I used. You felt like you were fracturing into millions of pieces. You kind of feel like your a kaleidescope, mind and body alike. Very intense when bonged, and very short lived 3-5 minutes. The high over all I would classify as an disassociative hallucinogen.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

74. Isn't this a substance that Native American Shamans use

to induce waking dreams? I don't think it gives you the type of recreational buzz of grass but in potent forms it induces powerful visions.

[Zhade]

40. It's nothing like marijuana. It's not supposed to be.

It works - i've used it, and I've experienced the various effects, such as salvia gravity and a strange sensation of everything being...vine-like.

Hard to explain. At any rate, this is not something to be casually used like cannabis. It's very intense.

[jayctravis]

72. It's not a fun high.

It's meant as sort of a "vision"...during which there can be a moment of clarity, which can freak people out who are use to four walls that remain solid.

What it's like...Imagine you are a goldfish and you live in an inflatable pool. You're pretty secure in your world and the wall boundaries and the sky you can see through but not breach. Then a person comes along and lifts the edge of the pool, completely reshaping and bending space as you know it. Parts of the space you know disappear, and others become deeper and differently shaped.

Gravity changes. The whole world feels round, and the floor bends away as if bent by lenses. Solid space stretches and it feels as though you are being rolled up and lifted by whirring, impossibly strong vibrations.

These strong effects go away in less than two minutes.

Should not be illegal, but it should probably not be packaged as a recreational drug. It's difficult to ingest properly as to trigger the powerful effects. An accidental strong dose can cause brief anesthaesia, therefore the trip requires supervision. Requires a comfortable safe area without candles or sharp objects or stairs.

[Zhade]

76. Believe me, I know!

It was far more potent than the shrooms I'd taken in the past. And I didn't even see any 'smelves' - that might have REALLY freaked me out.

Or I might have learned something amazing. Some of the trip reports I've read are very illuminating.

At any rate: not a party drug, not for the casual psychonaut.

[High Plains]

69. You want to ban it because it you didn't get off?!

That's one of the more thoughtless comments I've read on these boards--and that's saying something.

[SoCalDem]

10. Good Grief.. My Grandmother grew salvia

Too bad they don't investigate WHY so many kids feel the NEED to get high..Perhaps the stress of modern living is having some really bad effcts on young humanoids:(

[OfireitupO]

12. Its simple

Kids are screwed up from non-stop competition with peers, stress from parents wanting them to be the next CEO, going from one place to another , no time to rest no time to think. Drugs are an escape from a crazy society.

So what are politicians to do about kids who dont want to fit into their capitalist paradigm? Make everything they do illegal to try and make them into model christian boys, and if they dont accept it, put em in jail along with the millions of other non-violent drug users.

[Dhalgren]

15. Everyone, everywhere wants to get high. It is a natural part of

being human. That's why small children will spin around and around so they can get "drunk". They like the feeling - everyone does. Instead of asking why some people want to get high, we should ask why some people don't want them to...

[SoCalDem]

18. You have a point..

My middle son would "wind up" his Johnny Jump-Up until it would not twist anymore, and then raise his feet.. That litle guy would spin himself dizzy.. of course he did go on to have drug problems as a teen :scared:.. Maybe he was telling us something when he was just 8 months ols:shrug:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

43. indeed

[Megahurtz]

51. Yeah, and

who the hell wouldn't want to get high in this country with the way things are going at present?

[Up2Late]

13. These Myrtle Beach City Council people are ridiculous, leave ...

...the Kids Alone! What!?! Do they want these kids going out looking for Poisonous Mushrooms to eat or Brain Damaging household Chemicals to huff?

I doubt this is much different than eating "Morning Glory" Seeds.:eyes:

[discordian]

67. yes, much different, yet very much the same...

I remember Morning Glory seeds and Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds as having an LSD-like duration and disassociative effect. Of course, they contain an easily extracted LSA precursor to LSD. Salvia is probably more like Phalaris Grass, a DMT source with gravitational like effects and a short duration. Hmm, I think I'll stop there, I may have said too much... ;)

I hate it when the government tries to ban people from growing and using plants, it's stupid (the only exceptions being aggressive/invasive type plants, ie kudzu).

[alfredo]

14. It is closely related to Coleus. Back in the seventies we'd

make a cool water infusion of about 50 chopped Coleus leaves to 2 cups of water. We'd let it sit for a couple hours. We'd then drink it and eat as many leaves as one could stomach.

Yeah, it would give you a light buzz. Not worth the work IMHO.

[depakid]

23. "Its effects are considered unpleasant by many people."

That's an understatement.

Smoking salvia is similar to DMT- it's not a "high" or a "buzz."

Here's something I wrote on another board when the subject came up:

If you're not experienced with hallucinogens- AND/OR if you don't have the right spiritual atittude AND the right environment PLUS another person around to keep watch over you, DO NOT try this.

If you meet all the criteria- and don't scare easily- Salvia treated respectfully, can give you an insightful- and possibly therapeutic- shamanic experience. It only lasts about 10-15 minutes- but it seems longer and much of that time is literally in a waking dreamstate.

[SteppingRazor]

24. Huh. If you say so. Any suggestions on proper dosage and usage?

Because as stated above, I find salvia to be nothing but bunk.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. dosage...

Salvia is most often smoked, but can also be used sub-lingually and orally producing effects that last longer but have a slower onset. The main psychoactive ingredient of Salvia Divinorum is salvinorin-A, which can be extracted from the leaves of the Salvia plant to form various strengths of extracts (5X, 6X, 10X, etc) for smoking. Salvinorin-A is also sold in various types of liquids; in this case, the liquid is held under the tongue for 15-30 minutes, slowly entering the bloodstream through absorbtion in the mouth. Be careful when using pure extract and liquids, as they are much more potent than a normal salvia leaf and hold larger amounts of salvinorin-A. The charts below show dosages for Smoked Salvia Leaf as well as smoked extract. Full exeriences can be found for many people with a single or small number of hits of either leaf or extracts.

Many people find it difficult to achieve full effects by smoking dried salvia leaves. Those who are successful generally require multiple large hits off a pipe or bong. Typical smoked doses with plain leaf are between 0.2 to 0.5 gram, about one large, dried leaf. For sublingual consumption, a typical dosage range is 10-50 grams of fresh (wet) leaf, approximately equal to 6 to 30 leaves, or 2-10 grams of dried leaf, usually reconstituted before consumption.

Salvia extracts generally come in 5x, 6x and 10x concentrations. Dramatically less material is required the more concentrated the extract is (10x is more concentrated than 5x). A single hit of extract may be more than enough at any of these concentrations.

Smoked Salvia divinorum Dosages (Avg Potency Leaf)
Light .25 g
Common .5 g
Strong .75 g


Onset : 30-180 seconds
Duration : 5-30 minutes
Normal After Effects : 30-60 minutes




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Smoked Salvia divinorum Dosages (5x Extract)
Light 1/20 - 1/10 g
Common 1/15 - 1/6 g
Strong 1/8 - 1/4 g


Onset : 30-180 seconds
Duration : 5-30 minutes
Normal After Effects : 30-60 minutes


Note: Salvia divinorum extracts vary greatly in potency from one vendor to another. Be VERY careful.]

Sublingual/Buccal Salvia divinorum Dosages (plain leaf)
Light 10 g fresh / 2 g dried
Common 30 g fresh / 6 g dried
Strong 50 g fresh / 10 g dried


Onset : 10-20 minutes
Duration : 30-90 minutes
Normal After Effects : 30-120 minutes


Note: When chewed (used buccally / sublingually), dried leaf is rehydrated with water first.


Every individual reacts differently to every chemical.
Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.


Erowid's dosage information is a summary of data gathered from users, research, and other
resources and should not be construed as recommendations. Individuals can respond
differently to the same dosage. What is safe for one can be deadly for another.

[foo_bar]

29. the secret is to vaporize it (e.g., butane lighter)

Then open all the windows before someone inhales it.

Seriously, it's not a pleasant experience unless you're an Oaxacan shaman. But don't take my word for it, let Quetzlcoatl personally kick your ass for 15 minutes.

[livinginphotographs]

31. I tried it a couple of times too.

And would agree with you.

Sounds like it wasn't the concentrated kinds I was using though, and from what some of the other posters have said, maybe that's a good thing.

[depakid]

59. Check out erowid on point

Most vendors sell dried Salvia divinorum leaf that includes an “X” extract of salvinorin A (the active ingerdient)in “5X” or “10X” form.

Trust me, if you take three big hits of this stuff, unless you've a strong mind and are accustomed to being out of body/other worldly- you won't like it. At all.

Which is why a ban makes little sense- I'd reckon 90% of the people who try this have no idea what they're in for.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_faq.shtml#extractions

[K-W]

26. Yah, always use a spotter with Salvia.

Or better off, dont use it at all. Unless you are really, really into bending your mind, there are better options.

[Zhade]

42. Very important post. Thanks for reinforcing that.

NT!

[The Traveler]

79. Hmmmmm

Trav considers his options .... sounds interesting.

[Zhade]

28. This stuff isn't for kids.

I've taken 10x and 20x enhanced extracts of this stuff - it is NOT NOT NOT a party drug. Its effects are incredibly intense, and even frightening to many. It can't be used with a casual, "I'm gonna get fucked up!" mentality.

It should remain legal for adults, with the same restrictions as alcohol. But it should not be banned, even though I am very careful about who i recommend it to. This stuff is for extradimensional mind journeys, not "getting high".

[SteppingRazor]

30. Ah. Here's a member of the Leary School of Thought now.

So, you hop dimensions while on the stuff? Right then.

Kidding aside, according to the dosages listed by the poster above, I've far exceeded the dosage and found little response.

[Up2Late]

34. I wonder if it takes a few tries to get the effects?

I know that was the case with Pot, Auh, I mean that's what "this friend of mine" told me.

[Schema Thing]

61. I had trouble getting high with pot

I'd tried about 5 times before feeling anything.

When I tried Salvia, in spite of my friends warnings, I thought it might be the same thing, little or no effect.

I took a draw from a bowl, and within 20 seconds I knew that I was no longer in control of the ship, and that I would need to just hang on for the ride.

[Zhade]

37. Some people have real trouble breaking through.

Not entirely sure why. It took me a while, but when it finally worked, woah.

The "salvia gravity" effect is crazy.

[mike_c]

50. I'm with Zhade on this one...

The 10x and 2ox extracts give a brief, intense effect-- I find it very much like psilocybin 'shrooms but quicker-- edgy, sometimes colorful, but shortlived. The effect lasts a bit longer if you hold a wad of leaves in your cheek, but the leaves are quite bitter. Ska Maria is not my preferred style of hallucinogen, frankly-- I don't mind the intensity, but the brevity and the edginess make the experience less worthwhile, IMO.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

56. i love your homeland security graph

[redqueen]

32. Got a link to that story? n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

35. oppps...yes here's the link to the story...i seem to always do that

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/news/12195087.htm

[bloom]

33. It seems to me there are probably thousands of plants

and mushrooms that have weird effects.

It would be ridiculous to try to "Ban" them all.


We'll just have a concrete planet with everything totally controlled.

[babylonsister]

57. Great point! And your name, bloom,

reflects your comments!

[Stuckinthebush]

38. Damn, do I feel stupid!

I was walking past a tattoo/head shop the other day and there was a big sign in the front window that read, "We sell salvia!"

I laughed because I thought that they were trying to say that they sell SALIVA (my guess was for drug tests).

I guess the laugh is on my old and out of touch ass.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

68. LOL - I'm medium "old and out of touch" but I would have

thought the same thing. Ah, there's so much to learn on DU...

[LifeDuringWartime]

44. "euphoria and disorientation"???

wow. try a complete disassociation from reality. the effects of this drug are extremely profound. it can be a TERRIFYING experience, but it can also be wonderful.

the only reason they are trying to ban it is because the stores selling the super-concentrated extracts are being irresponsible and selling it to young kids who know nothing about it. it was originally used by south american/mexican shamans hundreds, thousands of years ago. now kids get fucked up on it.

[jayctravis]

73. It can be very very scary...

There are pulling effects, like something very very strong stretching the surface underneath you. When I tried it was almost a cradling effect like whirring wings trying to scoop me up.

Then the walls of the room rearranged themselves into a trapezoid shape and shifted through what would seem to be an impossible axis of rotation. The effect is overwhelming and could very possibly scar someone not in touch with who they really are, or threatened by their stature in the Universe.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

47. pics of the flowering plant Salvia....

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. I have these in my yard!

Should I try smoking a few of them? :)

[babylonsister]

52. Me, too-the purple

variety. :smoke:

[truthisfreedom]

53. mmm... no. did you read the thread? do you feel you need to have a

disorienting religious-type experience? 8^)

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Maybe

as long as this religious experience doesn't involve a church, I am game.

[susanna]

64. LOL - that was my thought.

Here I've been growing this stuff for years! Dumb gardener here.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. another pic

[Mojorabbit]

66. I believe it is a specific

species of salvia. I grew it once. It had huge leaves.

[Up2Late]

75. Wow! Are those easy to grow in the average garden?

Just a tip for all those who like Hummingbirds, plant RED Flowers!

Hummingbirds WILL find your garden if you have Red flowers!

[Lone_Star_Dem]

58. I bet it's even a xeriscape plant

What more can you ask for a hallucinogen that saves you water.

I'm so out of the loop, I had no idea any type of saliva was a hallucinogenic.

[Schema Thing]

60. This stuff is beyond wild

I'm a drug neophyte, so I didn't have much to compare it to. I found it interesting, but not fun. It was not scary to me, but I had prepared myself for anything, and, as far as I know, I don't have much to *dredge up* emotionally.

My friend and his gf however, are well versed in the hallucinogenic arts, and they confirm that it is way beyond LSD or shrooms in terms of effect.

It's rather amazing that it is still legal. I feel sure it will be outlawed nationally soon enough; as soon as it becomes popular enough. Then again, as harsh as it can be, it may never become popular.

Frankly, I hate to see one more plant made illegal in our failed "war" on drugs.

[loudsue]

62. LOL! The expertise on DU never ceases to amaze me...

So much knowledge....so little time!

:yourock:

[angryxyouth]

63. My 2 rules for any good trip.

#1 Don't think, especially about anything serious.
#2 Don't look in a mirror and touch your face. ie. picking black heads. You'll be sorry in the morning.

#1 is too hard for me these days, so I won't trip.
:crazy:

[WhiteTara]

65. welcome to a thinking crown angryxyouth

and glad you leave those blackheads alone. :hi:

[angryxyouth]

77. Thanks It's great to be here

With all of DU's Great minds in any of their mental states.:grouphug:

[WhiteTara]

78. you're going to fit right in

great masks

[GoddessOfGuinness]

70. Playing video games can cause euphoria and disorientation too

Guess we should ban those, too...

[Carni]

80. Gee I had no idea

I could have just grazed in my yard to get all this effect.

Why do they feel the need to get all hyped up every time someone eats a plant and finds out they can get a buzz?

Maybe we should just convert to all concrete--or can you snort particles to get buzzed off that too?