Extreme obesity ballooning in adults

[dArKeR]

Americans are not just getting fatter, they are ballooning to extremely obese proportions at an alarming rate.

THE NUMBER of extremely obese American adults — those who are at least 100 pounds overweight — has quadrupled since the 1980s to about 4 million. That works out to about 1 in every 50 adults.
Extreme obesity once was thought to be a rare, distinct condition whose prevalence remained relatively steady over time. The new study contradicts that thinking and suggests that it is at least partly due to the same kinds of behavior — overeating and under-activity — that have contributed to the epidemic number of Americans with less severe weight problems.
In fact, the findings by a RAND Corp. researcher show that the number of extremely obese adults has surged twice as fast as the number of less severely obese adults.

http://msnbc.com/news/979793.asp?0cv=CB10

[spotbird]

1. Cool headline

pass the chips.

[Mari333]

2. Back when I was a kid in the 50s

there was always one overweight, maybe 2 in town...it was NOT the norm..
walk thru my town in Michigan now, and BINGO..its the norm.
Hell if I know why..lack of exercise, extreme portions in restaurants, poor urban sprawling and planning, no one walks to the store (if you walk in rural areas around here everyone assumes your license was suspended or you cant afford a car), fast food restaurants, people eating to stave off depression, etc etc..
all kinds of reasons I guess but in the end, EVERYONE will pay for the health care costs and yet people can get a 5.99 all you can eat buffet anywhere, but try and find a cheap pack of cigarettes or a cheap beer..
and how many times have I see people using disability Little Rascal carts in stores when they just weigh over 400 lbs (and get disability payments for weighing over 400 lbs as they drive thru a McDonalds and order a couple Big Macs for a snack?)
Hells bells. what a mess this country is in.

[classics]

17. Your irrational hatred of fat people always amazed me.

> EVERYONE will pay for the health care costs

Oh yes, those free hospitals for the fat. Luckie fatties. Hey Mari333, why dont you put on a few hundred pounds so you can get some of that free fatty health care everyone is coveting these days?

The truth is fat people cant get decent health care, at any price, thanks to people such as yourself, who have made it a crime just to be alive and fat.

The only 'heathcare' people like you seem to think fat people deserve is to go to a 'bariatric surgeon' and have themselve mutilated in order to become thin. Of course its completely lost on people like you that even mutilating someones insides to the point of giving them forced, lifelong anerexia, does not make 90% of them thin.

You cant seem to come to grips with that part because it doesnt jibe with your world view of fat people who sit around collecting disability and food stamps, stuffing thier faces with doughnuts and living off the sweat of 'good thin people' such as yourself.

> yet people can get a 5.99 all you can eat buffet anywhere, but try and find a cheap pack of cigarettes or a cheap beer

So you hate that people can get cheap food, but god forbid they tax your smokes and brew huh? Thats called hipocracy honey. You want to behave as you desire, but dispise such freedom in others, and its results.

> and get disability payments for weighing over 400 lbs as they drive thru a McDonalds and order a couple Big Macs for a snack?

Nobody gets disability for being fat. Obesity was specifically stricken from the disability laws because it was in fact found not to be a disabling condition.

> Hells bells. what a mess this country is in.

This is the same thing I hear from the racists when they talk about how the blacks are taking over. Oh my, look what they have done to our country.

If you even bothered to read the article you would see its a 'study' paid for by 'bariatric surgeons', men and women who make millions of dollars taking poor desperate fat people, promising them they will be thin, and then killing and mutilating them.

I meet these poor people every day in my line of work. You cant even imagine what they suffer in life, only to be finally betrayed by 'doctors' who tell them lies and them butcher them for quick cash, literally leaving them for dead when the side effects of the prolonged unstoppable starvation start to finally kill them.

Have you ever met 30 year old men with advanced bone loss and severe malnutrition who still weigh 300 lbs? I have, many times. Every day more come in, begging for help after being 'helped' by the people who pay for this shit to run in the media.

So bitch about how you hate seeing fat people, how they are runing your good thin country, and how you need some cheap smokes. Its not ignorance on your part... its just common knowledge.

[Mari333]

30. I watch my mother die daily from obesity

and my brother and sister , all over 400 lbs are going to die from it..if that makes you feel any better and yes they eat far too much and dont care...
I wont allow myself to be that large..I eat once a day, and I even have hypothyroidism,. but I am 5 feet 8 inches tall and weigh 150 lbs..for a woman of 52 thats damned good especially for MY family..
My mother is over 300 lbs..she sits and watches TV all day and eats and her legs are purple and oozing ..what am I supposed to do? tell her to walk now? No I dont..shes too old..I pay for her healthcare..
My whole family is obese...they dont think about what they eat, they dont care..
Dont even start with me about obesity..Im watching it kill my relatives and family...gee, I wonder why Im NOT obese? maybe its because I eat once a day and walk..maybe its because I wont allow it.
Maybe its because I want to be able to survive..
In the meantime, I dont see any taxes on fast food or oversized portions in restaurants..I only see taxes on cigarettes and alcohol
Gee, maybe just maybe my MOM might not have had quadruple bypass surgery if she had not been able to buy crap food at such a cheap price..maybe she could walk without a cane if she was taught what wasnt and what was healthy for her..
dont even talk to me about obesity..Ive seen it kill people in my family .
Hatred for the obese? No...concern that people like my mother and brother and sister will die from it..and no one is doing anything about it....TAX it..make it impossibly hard for people to eat the crap they are eating ...change the system...make walking paths...create social change...do anything to keep people from overeating..My family is obese from refridgerators full of pizzas and donuts..its as simple as that..Ive seen what they eat..
They eat all day. Ive also worked in hospitals and I know the health care of the obese and overweight..hell I need to lose 5 lbs..
But I sure as hell wont ever ever allow myself to get as big as my mother, or my sister, or my brothers, who can barely walk now thanks to their fridges stuffed with crap.
I know they dont know any better, but hopefully someday, their kids will.

[inthecorneroverhere]

34. fitness and the role of gov't

:loveya:'s go out to your relatives!

That has got to be so difficult!

I'm a beer drinker and I DO support taxes on it and on ciggies.

I would like to see the revenues from alcohol/cig taxes + a small 1 cent/can tax on soda used to:

1) Expand rails-to-trails bike-walk paths
2) Expand bicycle lanes
3) Expand parklands and trails. The CCC did a marvelous job of building these during FDRoosevelt's tenure.
4) Support community non-competitive walking and bicycling organizations. The http://www.ava.org is one, which does lots of 10 km walks. Mo runs, no competition, just walks. Yet, they operate on a shoestring. Also, of course, support the Y's and encourage them to add outdoor walking and bicycling to gym-based aerobics/wts for those of us who may not want to hang out at a gym 3 days+/week.
5) Engage in a little bit of low-cost capacity-building with organizations like http://www.pedestrians.org to advocate for parklands and paths.
6) Include walkability, bicycle-friendliness, and dog-friendliness in Environmental Impact Statements by developers. I have noticed that dog-owners walk considerably more than non-dog owners. Ways to address this would be for developers to incorporate parkland and paths connecting parks with residential areas.

Some running events are 'opening up' to walkers by extending the time that the course remains open. The Portland marathon does this, but it would be great if more 10K's stayed open for, say 3 hours rather than 1.5 hours, and then gave the walkers a stamp in a book or something small like that, for 'incentive.'.

I would like to see Dem's make fitness-for-everyone a national priority. I'm talking about 'non-achiever-everybody' stuff like walking, beach-cruiser-bicycling, not just the things involving people who are already fit, like marathon running.

Also, government does have a role in speaqking out for those who are doing the good thing, fitness-wise. Protect bicyclists!!!!!

disclaimer: I don't have a dog. I have cats, and they don't help me much with fitness....:D

[Mari333]

36. I could live with that!

Tax fast food and crap food and make them pay for bicycle paths..hells bells Ive almost been run over so many times because there are NO paths for bicyclists in my rural area..if you walk ANYWHERE...watch it...the cars can hit you in no time at all if you arent scrunched over to the side of the road..
I see people running down the road (bless their hearts) but they too are in extreme danger..not a path for them, just basically dodging large cars and SUVs...
Lets hope the US wakes up ..walking and bicycling saves on OIL...and saves us from stealing OIL from other countries.

[Missy Vixen]

39. How nice for you

>Dont even start with me about obesity..Im watching it kill my relatives and family...gee, I wonder why Im NOT obese? maybe its because I eat once a day and walk..maybe its because I wont allow it.<

I'm happy for you.

By the way, I hope I won't end up paying for your treatment when you find yourself with cancer, emphysema, or one of many smoking-related diseases. Then again, I'm sure that this isn't a problem. You certainly won't be fat, will you?

Welcome to my "ignore" file.

Julie

[inthecorneroverhere]

40. we need to stop eating our own!!!

Rather than in-fighting (liberals eating our own.......................................ad infinitum), let's think about ways to solve the problem:

Sin taxes (alcohol, cigs, tiny 1c/can on soda) pay for bike paths, rails-to-trails, parklands with walking paths that are dog-friendly, etc. Put pedestrian and bicycle friendliness on real estate developer EIS's (environmental impact statements).

Rails-to-trails has lost funding this year!

Don't killfile your neighbor, think 'outside-the-litter-box' and try to dream up an answer to the problem....

:hippie:

Disclaimer: I drink beer and am owned by three lazy cats who could care less about fitness but I :loveya: dogs since they walk their owners! I love meeting dogs on the trail!

[NickB79]

41. Where did she say she smokes?

Am I missing something, or did you totally pull that out of your butt? I got the impression she was using cigarettes and alcohol as examples of what is taxed and asking why fast food isn't, not that she was promoting smoking and drinking.

[classics]

43. Mari has a long history of making these rants.

She has admitted many times she smokes and uses it along with starvation to keep herself 'normal'.

[NickB79]

74. Ah, ok

Thanks for the background, I was unaware. I'm sorry then that I came off a little hostile asking if it was "pulled out of your butt."

[classics]

42. So shes dead, now shes alive... make up your mind.

I guess you have absolutely nothing to say about the biggotry that was refuted in your last posting?

Just take the opportunity to blather on about how perfect and thin you are, and how much you dispise your fat relatives?

> I watch my mother die daily from obesity and my brother and sister , all over 400 lbs are going to die from it..if that makes you feel any better and yes they eat far too much and dont care...

I'm sure they are aware, and have been for a long time that you hate them Mari. Dont pretend to care about them here... later in this message you go on the make them out to be human eating machines that cant even walk.

I really feel bad about your mother.

> My mother is over 300 lbs..she sits and watches TV all day and eats and her legs are purple and oozing ..what am I supposed to do? tell her to walk now?

How old is your mother Mari?

> No I dont..shes too old..I pay for her healthcare..

You sound bitter. Have you told your mother how much you hate her and all fat people? She sounds pretty sick, you better hurry.

> I wont allow myself to be that large..I eat once a day, and I even have hypothyroidism,. but I am 5 feet 8 inches tall and weigh 150 lbs..for a woman of 52 thats damned good especially for MY family..

Let me get this straight. You smoke, you drink, your 52, you starve yourself and you have a MOTHER who is at least 70.

Do you hear yourself ranting Mari? Shes SEVENTY. How old does someone have to be in your eyes before every single thing that might be wrong with them is not caused by fat?

Most people in this country will be lucky to live to the age of 70. By the way you rant on and on and on about how disgusting and unhealthy all fat people are, they should all be DEAD by the time they are 30.

I work with the elderly every day Mari. There are LOTS of 70 years olds who are barely able to walk, and who 'sit and watch tv all day'. Almost none of them are fat, most try desperately to KEEP weight on.

Sickness comes with age. It will come for you too no matter how long you smoke and starve yourself. Hateing your mother for being sick, no matter how you justify it is not good for you.

> My whole family is obese...they dont think about what they eat, they dont care..

Again you pretend to just 'know' what all fat people think and do. This is a hallmark of irrational hatred. KKK members all 'know' what those nasty black people do too. Like your post, it doesnt matter if the facts add up, they just 'know'.

> Gee, maybe just maybe my MOM might not have had quadruple bypass surgery if she had not been able to buy crap food at such a cheap price..maybe she could walk without a cane if she was taught what wasnt and what was healthy for her..

I've never actually met someone who hated thier own mother so much. I feel so bad for you. I've seen you posting messages before about how you thought your family were 'pigs' and animals... I just cant imagine how messed up you must be inside.

As for your mothers health, again she is lucky to have lived to 70. The fact that she is 'obese' and lived to 70 should tell you something. By your own bizzare beliefs, all fat people would be dead by the age of 30.

Your mother has outlived many a 'fitness guru'. Her fatness is certainly not killing her, or she would have been dead 40 years ago.

> dont even talk to me about obesity..Ive seen it kill people in my family .

You never talk about 'obesity'. You just rant on and on about how much you hate fat people when you see the word.

>do anything to keep people from overeating.

When your willing to put yourself in a federal prison for smoking and drinking, come back and we will talk.

> My family is obese from refridgerators full of pizzas and donuts..its as simple as that..Ive seen what they eat..

Your family is fat because they were born that way. They will die that way too Mari.

If your bizzare beliefs were true, then mutilating them with bariatric surgery would make them thin. But even that doesnt work. If even a little bit of your beliefs were true, then cutting out someones intestines would be the miracle cure.

> They eat all day. Ive also worked in hospitals and I know the health care of the obese and overweight

You know absolutely NOTHING about fat people or 'obesity' Mari. You are among the most staunchly misinformed people I have ever come across at DU. You are routinely corrected and called out for being so horribly wrong that even the fat haters take issue with you, yet you come back again and again with the irrational rants about fat people being on disability, etc.

If you worked even a day in health care with fat people you would know they dont get disability, that they suffer terribly, and they is has literally NOTHING to do with what they eat. Your believes are firmly rooted in NOT knowing anything about the people you talk about.

Go ahead and keep saying you work with the fat Mari. Everyone who reads these fat-bashing threads has already seen your brand of 'caring' for the fat. Its clear from your 'pig animal' and 'eating machine' references, along with your constant ranting about how your mother is so disgusting to you, exactly what you really know and believe about fat people.

> But I sure as hell wont ever ever allow myself to get as big as my mother, or my sister, or my brothers, who can barely walk now thanks to their fridges stuffed with crap.

Thats right Mari. Keep telling yourself that you are thin because of your strength and morality, and that all fat people are proof of sin and weakness you do not posess. We wont see that as obsessive self-praise at the expense of others.

> I know they dont know any better, but hopefully someday, their kids will.

Are they incapable of learning Mari? Perhaps they just dont care for what you have to teach.

[Mari333]

50. where did I ever say hate

show me where? In the meantime, eating once a day is healthy for me...and we can all get by on less....anyone can.
You disagree that supersized portions dont contribute to being obese? Or people not walking contributes to it?
I wont argue with you, you seem to have some anger issues concerning my posts about how dangerous obesity is to ones health and how a healtheir environment would contribute to that. I mentioned taxing fast food, bicycle paths, sidewalks , and smart urban planning. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen, and I doubt we will see the mega wal marts and shopping malls and drive thrus disappear.
We are all now eating 500 calories a day more then we did a decade ago thanks to giant portions. In the meantime, lighten up, no pun intended.

[CO Liberal]

64. Every Word Of Your Posts SCREAMS "Hate"

How about a little compassion?????

[Frederic Bastiat]

65. Compassion for what? n/t

[CO Liberal]

77. Compassion for Other People

Actually, it sounds like Mari has some food issues she hasn't dealt with. And a lot of pent-up hostility.....

[Mari333]

81. pffft. You are being a drama queen.

.

[CO Liberal]

84. No, I'm Not

[FlaGranny]

69. I would like to add that my mother,

obese all her life, but not grossly so, died at the ripe old age of 94 from multiple myeloma (a type of bone cancer). The last month she lost a lot of weight and wound up dying at about 120 pounds, still a good weight for her age and height.

I am of the opinion (backed up by some MDs) that it is healthier to be somewhat overweight as you get older. It gives you nutritional "backup" for the diseases of old age, prevents you from becoming cachectic as quickly and the nutritional reserve may even save or prolong your life.

Doctors I have worked for in the past, when confronted with an overweight smoker and drinker handled it by telling the patient, first and foremost, stop smoking. After that stop drinking. Then lose weight

The most important thing to do, in any case, is to exercise every day and eat a well balanced diet. If you stay healthy, overweight is not really that big a health problem - unless you are grossly obese.

[CO Liberal]

76. I Had an Aunt Who Was Over 400 Lbs Most of Her Adult Life

She died at age 73.

My mother was very weight-conscious - rail-thin - and died at 72.

[Trajan]

53. I almost always agree with you .....

not this time ......

[TrogL]

68. $5.99 all you can eat

For reasons beyond my control, I spend a certain amount of time in all-night restaurants. Up here they're called Humpty's.

You can get a full entree for $7.95 or less (remember it's a $0.75 loonie) and the portions are massive. There's no dieters menu and you have to be a senior citizen to order off the reduced portions menu.

I can never finish an entree and I usually feel bad about it afterwards ("poor people are starving in India", "fine, send it there"). Nevertheless, the restaurant is filled (even at 4 a.m.) with monumentally overweight people (they often hiss at me on the way out) chowing down.

In my lifestyle and work, I have to make an effort to exercise, even with my body type (ectomorph); jogging from one building to another (even finding excuses to switch buildings), running stairs instead of the elevator, biking to work in unsuitable weather, lugging stuff around instead of using a cart.

I'm still shocked by people who will use the elevator to go down one floor.

[Selwynn]

82. Edit - too harsh

Sorry - I was trying to be humorous, but that was too harsh.

Still though, your comments seem fairly harsh and short sighted to me. Especially since my mother is very overweight and she eats next to nothing. It's not aways about laziness, or eating to much or any of hte other insulting stereotypes. With my mother is the combination of about three different medical conditions, none of which are her fault.

So when I read very cold, dismissive stuff like that, the side of me that knows my mother fits none of your preconceived notions has to resist the urge to call you an asshole. I'm sure you're not really an asshole...you just sound like one, right? :)

[shockingelk]

3. it's the Sopranos

that show makes me really hungry for empty carbs every time I watch it.

[frank frankly]

4. but eating 100% processed food is good for you!

go organic! or, like me, work towards it...

[twilight]

10. I've gone all organic ...

Wow! What a difference! Lost about 12 lbs. without even trying in a couple of months - thats because the *junk* is OUT! :bounce: GO ORGANIC IS RIGHT!!!

:kick:

[Maple]

14. 'Organic' has nothing to do with it

You simply cut out the junk food...not the same thing.

[frank frankly]

18. what do you have against organic, Maple?

are you picking fights?

[NickB79]

23. Not all of us can find and/or afford all-organic

I think Maple's point is that you can lose weight and eat a healthy diet without having to eat strictly organic food. I know I couldn't afford to eat totally organic on my income, but I'm still in very good health. Just because it isn't all-organic doesn't mean it's immediately junk food. I don't see her/him as having anything in particular against organic food from that single statement, just that the reality is that all-organic food isn't for everyone due to factors such as cost and local availability.

[frank frankly]

26. hey, I understand then!

I can barely afford it, too...

[twilight]

78. you'd be surprised

If you go vegan on top of it, you will soon find that there aren't many foods you can eat or drink. Throw in no alcohol, caffeine, gluten, heavy fats ... the list is slim so the price you pay for what you can eat becomes rather meaningless.

Toss out those gross cigarettes, save another $5.00 a day which will pay for the food.

We'll see how long I last ... thats all I can say. :D

[rawtribe]

98. Stick to the produce section

If it comes in a can, box or bag you probably shouldn't eat it. Stick to the produce section that's where they keep the real food. If it's organic so much the better.

[smirkymonkey]

66. True, I think processed food is a major culprit..

a few months ago I stopped eating sugar and was amazed at how sugar is in everything!! It goes by different names, but its still sugar. I have lost a lot of weight by just cutting it out and eating healthfully - organic when I can. I wasn't even overweight to begin with and I am still slowly loosing.

Not only have I lost weight, but I feel healthier, my skin is better and I have more energy. I don't have regular food cravings because I am not on the insulin rollercoaster anymore.

The food industry knows this crap (processed food) is addictive, which is why they don't cut back on the sweeteners. Even "low fat" products are loaded w/ sugar and chemicals.

[dfong63]

5. i wonder if there's any correlation between increase in obesity rates,

... and the decrease in smoking rates.

[Bluerthanblue]

85. beyond smoking-

i'm willing to bet that dieting is one of the reasons people are getting fatter- and i'm not joking-
Starvation diets and extreem weight loss programs cause the body to become more efficient and to reset it's metabolism to match the food availiable- when did America become so obsessed with weightloss? and what has been the result?

laugh if you want- time will prove me right-

[mumon]

6. Rush Limbaugh

affects the tides so much he's called "The Prince of Tides."

[Emillereid]

7. This is not unrelated to experts urging low fat, man made foods on us

for the last 25 years. When are they going to realize that the three macronutrients, fat, protein and carbohydrates are metabolized differently -- that we are not just furnaces that burn fuel; fats particularly are critical structural elements in the body (every cell membrane in our bodies is made of a bi-layer of fat) and not simply 9 calories); have incredible anti-microbial properties; are critical to proper hormone function; are part and parcel of the immune system, etc. etc. . An accompanying article on msnbc today said that severe obesity is up alarmingly. That's what will happen when people eat the SAD, especially the low fat version of it.

http://msnbc.com/news/979862.asp?0sl=-13

Low-carb dieters eat more, still lose

Associated Press

The dietary establishment has long argued it's impossible, but a new study offers intriguing evidence for the idea that people on low-carbohydrate diets can actually eat more than folks on standard lowfat plans and still lose weight.
PERHAPS NO idea is more controversial in the diet world than the contention -- long espoused by the late Dr. Robert Atkins -- that people on low-carbohydrate diets can consume more calories without paying a price on the scales.

Over the past year, several small studies have shown, to many experts' surprise, that the Atkins approach actually does work better, at least in the short run. Dieters lose more than those on a standard American Heart Association plan without driving up their cholesterol levels, as many feared would happen.

<snip>

Now, a small but carefully controlled study offers a strong hint that maybe Atkins was right: People on low-carb, high-fat diets actually can eat more.

The study, directed by Penelope Greene of the Harvard School of Public Health and presented at a meeting here this week of the American Association for the Study of Obesity, found that people eating an extra 300 calories a day on a very low-carb regimen lost just as much during a 12-week study as those on a standard lowfat diet.

Over the course of the study, they consumed an extra 25,000 calories. That should have added up to about seven pounds. But for some reason, it did not. ....
need to be open-minded." ....
 

[Fatima]

11. Atkins has not been proven to be safe over the long haul.

Some problems with long term Atkins eating include loss of calcium from bones, kidney problems, and just plain BOREDOM, which will knock anyone off of an eating plan. Especially one as restrictive and expensive as Atkins.

I lift weights. I eat mostly complex carbs. After a workout, I have a shake with protein powder and some Carnation instant breakfast, so my energy gets replenished without sacrificing muscle tissue. (Yes, eating wrong can be catabolic, or muscle destroying).

People get fat when they eat too much and move too little. Aerobic exercise is ok, but you have to add weight training to any exercise regime and build some lean muscle tissue. Lean muscle burns more calories even at rest and boosts the metabolism.

In short, there is no magic diet or pill.

[NickB79]

25. I don't think Atkins is intended for long-term use

When you start Atkins, you cut your carb intake severely in order to lose as much weight as possible in a short period of time. However, over time you start to work more and more carbs back into your diet. By doing this gradually you can more easily transition off of Atkins and not regain all the lost weight like you usually do in other diets. I agree with you that there is no magic pill; people just have to get more exercise and eat better. I see Atkins as a last-ditch solution to obesity, where it becomes more dangerous to live with the extreme weight than take the risks of Atkins. The risk of bone loss and kidney problems must be weighed against the many risks of extreme obesity such as heart failure.

[Mari333]

31. Heres what I do

I hate housecleaning soooooooooooo I put on a CD of James Brown...and vacumn while I listen to it...
then, I sometimes put on a CD of the Pointer Sisters..JUMP JUMP ..and man it really burns off the calories while u are dancing..
MOTOWN, i.e., is a real calorie burner...just put on a CD and start dancing.........................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Emillereid]

44. Atkins like fare has been the norm through most of our evolution --

we didn't even start eating grains until about 8 thousand years ago and for some groups far less time. Even the starchy veggies or sugary fruits we take for granted were much less so for our hunter-gatherer forefathers - the potato for instance was about the size of a kumquat. To top it off, what few carbohydrates we had access to were only available for at most a few months of the year. I've no doubt we are hard wired to eat them to in order to put on our winter coats of fat -- to see us through the winter or non-fruiting season -- that's why they stimulate an insulin response to store excess carbs as fat and provide insulation against the cold. That's what de-novo fat synthesis is -- it's carbohydrates shorn of their heavier water component. Most of the year, we used the incredible sharp tools (some paleolithic tools were sharper than surgeon's steel) to kill and carve meat from animals and believe it or not, early man and hunter gatherers today, prefer the fattier parts -- often the lean meat was thrown to the dogs.

The diseases of civilizations were named so because they did not emerge until after we'd settled down with grain and switched our mainly protein and fat diet for one composed of mainly sugar and starch. We lost more than bone -- we lost about of foot of stature and compromised our health in numerous ways. Not until we started getting sufficient protein again in the 20th century did we begin to reach our natural heights-- height common in paleolithic days. A new look at the paleodiet indicates that protein/fats from animals food made up about 65% of early man's food while plants sources accounted for the remainder -- used to thought to be the opposite but that was based on the percentage of food hunted versus gathered -- among the gathered food were placed animals foods such an insects, shellfish, etc.

It is bunkum that the Atkins diet has any long term health hazards -- when you switch from a diet high in starch to one high in protein and fat, you drop excess water (lowering your blood pressure in the meantime) and with it usually some minerals -- the body adjusts with a few weeks. All the studies showing calcium loss were all short term and didn't do proper follow. I have lived on Atkins for years and I am in contact with hundreds of people who do so and all of us have experienced greater health on all levels (including all the cardiovascular measures, alleviation of diabetes, etc.) By the way, the important thing about Atkins is that you basically substitute starchy carbohydrates with energy from fat -- properly done it is not that high in protein. Among the advantages is that resting muscle, parts of the kidney and the heart prefer free fatty acids and/ketones as fuel. And fat is what imparts taste and texture to food.

I did a paper on sports nutrition and fats a few years back for a graduate sports nutrition class and there is lots of cutting edge research getting great results with fat loading rather than carb loading. Grease burns clean too -- little or no lactic acid.

In a furnace or test tube a calorie might be a calorie, but with the complexity of the human body -- a calorie is no longer just a calorie --- a calorie of fat might in fact become a part of a brain cell or hormone or part of the immune system. Short and medium chain fatty acids are used as anti-microbial agents and when they are burned for energy they enter the portal system directly to be used quickly. Unfortunately the lowfat/high carb movement has more to do with money than health -- it's extremely profitable. As with everything else -- follow the money.

[govegan]

67. What a total bunch of baloney!

Perhaps it would be better stated: As with everything else -- follow the monkey.

The industry that produces your dead carcasses upon which you feast is extremely and very highly subsidized.

So, homo sapiens (meat-headens) conveniently evolved from wolves, lions, tigers or bears?

From the very beginnings of recorded history, some of homo sapiens have adhered to vegetarian diets.

Nice to know that a calorie is not a calorie. Is that kind of like when a vote is not a vote, as in this neocon fantasy land of happy meals, smart bombs, and dumb pill-popping fat-headed, big-mouthed talk show celebrities?

[Emillereid]

72. I'm not defending American meat production methods --

but I am a nutrition scientist and the overwhelming evidence suggests that humans parted with their fellow apes and grew themselves a large brain by taking up carnivory. Good lord, even chimpanzees hunt for meat. I would give you a bunch of links to provide evidence of this, but you appear closed minded and I don't have the time to waste. If you're inclined to learn something new I suggest a good starting place might be: http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/paleodiet/index.shtml or simply go into Pubmed and do some research.

BTW, the research for which I provided a link did indeed suggest that a calorie is not a calorie -- how else do you explain how the group that ate 300 more calories a day on a low carb regimen lost more weight than those on the low fat protocol? (http://msnbc.com/news/979862.asp?0sl=-13)
This isn't the only study documenting this -- another study pitted adolescents eating about 1800 calories a day on a low carb diet with a similar group eating 1200 low fat calories -- the low carb group shed gobs more pounds.

Remember a calorie is a calorie in a combustion chamber -- but the human body is more than a furnace. The three macronutrients play different roles in the body -- they are not simply fuels.

[govegan]

80. but you appear close minded?

How so?

[govegan]

83. What do you know about chimpanzees?

That chimps occasionally have some meat would more support a vegetarian position. Since chimps supposedly have a lower IQ or are lower on the evolutionary chart, their recourse to meat would perhaps not be something to promote as evidence of intelligence or wisdom.


Any scientist worth a pinch of salt knows that it is plain lunacy to base scientific theory on one study. Not only that, that study was so obviously flawed, I will only offer a few short points: 1. I have never seen or read of an "upscale Italian restaurant" that I would consider a good, sole source of daily nutrition for a vegan diet, or even vegetarian. 2. An inherently non-vegetarian regimen contrived to look the same as non-vegetarian fare, but really was vegetarian fare (or supposedly "higher-carb"), could hardly be realistic. 3. Although a calorie is indeed a calorie, if I walk three flights of stairs and you walk one, who will expend the most energy? Unless you evaluate energy utilization, how can you compare calories? 4. What about the Hawthorne effect?


A calorie is a measure of energy, plain and simple. I know from personal experience, and scores of epidemiological studies and evidence, that calorie consumption does absolutely relate to weight loss/gain. A few highly flawed studies do not science make.

[NickB79]

73. Recorded history and Homo sapiens evolution are not the same

"From the very beginnings of recorded history, some of homo sapiens have adhered to vegetarian diets." Yes, and many groups that live in northern climates have subsisted (in good health) on mainly animal-based diets (Inuits of N. America are the first to come to mind, as well as Neanderthal humans of N. Europe during the last Ice Age).

Recorded history began ONLY 10,000 yrs ago when humans began to domesticate wild grains and livestock and create a writing system to collect their knowledge. However, Homo sapiens evolved ~500,000-750,000 yrs ago. Recorded history covers less than 2% of modern human evolution! Before this time, there was no easy access to grains and other carbohydrate sources year-round except in tropical and subtropical regions. Plants such as wheat, corn and rice were mainly small-grained and difficult to harvest, and only available for a few months of the year in temperate regions. Our ancestors HAD to eat meat to survive; they had no moral compunction about it like some have today because they had no choice.

"The industry that produces your dead carcasses upon which you feast is extremely and very highly subsidized." That has nothing to do with how our ancestors ate and how we evolved into omnivores, unless you're contending the meat industry was around 500,000 yrs ago pushing otherwise-vegetarian cavemen to eat meat.

"So, homo sapiens (meat-headens) conveniently evolved from wolves, lions, tigers or bears?" No, of course we did not. We evolved from largely (but not entirely) herbivorous primates, just as wolves, tigers, and lions evolved from largely herbivorous ancestors tens of millions of years before that. Stone spearpoints and cutting blades 2 million years old have been found in habitats of Homo erectus and other early human ancestors, indicating our ancestors were eating meat at least a million years before modern humans evolved. Evolution doesn't care about how your ancestors ate, as long as they survived to produce offspring. Hell, fossils of carnivorous kangaroos and koalas have been found in Australia that evolved from otherwise herbivorous ancestors. The only analogy you listed that makes sense is comparing us to bears, because we are both OMNIVORES, neither carnivores or herbivores. How long do you think any early humans would have lasted if they would have ignored an available food source such as meats or fish?

BTW, when you state someone's post is "baloney", it is best to actually debate and/or debunk the statements in that post to back up your "baloney" position.

[govegan]

87. I did not write, nor imply, nor divine, that it was the same.

Hold the caravan there chief!

Any comments about anyone's diet prior to recorded history is pure speculation, since no one was bothering to record it.

To say that human ancestors had to eat meat to survive is pure speculative bunk that defies logic, science, reason, evolutionary theory and common sense. Many, many homo spapiens (especially from the meat-headens branch) did eat the flesh of animals (including fish and fowl). That is a point hardly worthy of argument.

Homo sapiens also have survived from the beginning of time as vegetarians. To deny that is to deny the obvious. Since the beginning of recorded history, we know that humans have survived and thrived as vegetarians. To speculate that humans only decided to be vegetarian once recorded history began would not seem to be logical.

Some primates are entirely herbivorous. How long would one have lasted for ignoring rotting carcasses, dead decaying flesh? Indefinitely, no doubt, per the length of the natural life force.

The faux science behind the Atkins diet, and these so obviously flawed and contrived studies is worse than baloney. However, some relish what others disdain. So cheer up! Have your baloney and eat it too!

You wrote "Evolution doesn't care about how your ancestors ate....." So are you replacing "Jehovah" with "Evolution"? I did not know that "evolution" had feelings, to care or not to care. Replacing gods of stone, clay, metal, etc., with gods of ivory tower contrivance is not a step forward in progressive thought.

BTW: Don't make blind assuptions, and put a little more cohesive thought into your posts, please.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

8. Observations from Japan

On my last trip, which lasted a month, I specifically looked at people's eating and exercise habits, and I noted the following things:

1) The Japanese diet is not completely low fat. Tonkatsu and the various tempura items are VERY fatty, as are the types of beef and pork that Japanese people favor. Okonomiyaki, a kind of combination crepe/omelet, is filled with pork and shellfish and basted with mayonnaise. And don't get me started on their trans-fat laden snack foods.

2) However, portions are small. A typical lunch might be a bowl of miso soup, about two ice cream scoops of rice, some shredded cabbage or other vegetable dish, and the main dish, never any larger than a slice of bread.

3) A traditional meal consists of small portions of a wide variety of foods. Go into an inn or minshuku (family-operated lodgings), which are the strongholds of traditional cooking, and you'll get eight or ten different dishes.

4) Japanese people walk and cycle a lot more than Americans do.

[psychopomp]

60. The result:

The "morbidly obese" in Japan are called "osumo-san" or sumo wrestlers.

[Dogmudgeon]

9. Lots of reasons

1. Larger portions of food
2. Increased use of trans-fats
3. Less exercise
4. Dramatic increase in psychological stress
5. Dramatic increase in environmental stress (including allergies)
6. Much greater long-term use of medications, especially SSRI antidepressants, female hormones, and alkaloids (e.g., antihistamines)
7. Recent reductions in smoking
8. Increase in sleep disorders of all kinds
9. Feedback-loop reinforcement or "viscious cycle" effect of all of the above

All of them have been implicated in obesity.

#4 and 5 especially lead to tremendous increases in cortisol, the body's naturally-produced anabolic steroid. Not only does this explain some of the obesity, but also increases in edema (check for swelling around the ankles), "unexplained" episodes of rage and PTSD with no discernable cause, and panic attacks.

I don't think the obesity epidemic can be explained just by food and lack of exercise, but all together, the reasons I've listed can make obesity "normal".

--bkl

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[soleft]

16. you left out the diet industry

which feeds on the fact the most people who go on a weight loss diet based on reduced calories not only gain back their weight but gain more, with the high weight increasing through each cycle.

[oldcoot]

91. Work schedules and meal times

I would like to add work schedules and meal times as factors that contribute to obesity. When I was a freshman in college I worked as a maid in a resort town. The hotel I worked at provided with one large meal a day but this meal was at lunch. After lunch we would go back to work. I was able to lose a lot of weight on that job without even trying. I attributed my ability to lose so much weight to the fact that my large meal in the middle of the day and the fact I was able to burn most of the calories off later in the day. Since that experience, I have suspected that one of the reasons so many Americans are so fat is that they have their big meal at the end of the day and do not get a chance to burn off the extra calories.

I also suspect that many people end up eating at fast food places because they only have an hour for lunch. If they had a little more time to eat, they might be a little more selective in their dining.

[corarose]

12. Two Words (FAST FOOD)

Drive thru's were not around that much 20 years ago. I think that it has alot to do with the fast paced life style and allmost every place is a drive thru or a drive up business.

[Mari333]

15. Ya fast foods are a contributor to it

when I was a kid (I sound like an old fogey, sorry), we had 4 channels on TV and we played outside a hell of a lot more then I see kids doing so nowadays...also, neighbourhood grocery stores existed and one walked to them ..
When I was in Europe, I noticed that villages were built around the neighborhood markets , with sidewalks and bicycle paths...it was a social action to walk to the market, pick fresh food for dinner, go to the Butchers, visit and chat with one another, and walk walk walk a lot..
and there were bicycle paths and walkways for that already in place..
Not where I live..hells bells you take your life in your hands if you walk to town from here..theres no paths at all...!

[dofus]

19. I've been noticing recently

that every single day I see several morbidly obese people in my daily rounds. Four employees at the grocery store I go to several times a week are obese.

Twenty, thirty years ago I could go days, weeks, sometimes even months withour seeing one 400 pound person.

And no, this isn't an attack on obese people, but just an observation. Like many people, I struggle with my weight. I took of about 35 pounds a year and a half ago and have kept it off. My BMI is not at an acceptable level, although at the upper end of normal. It's hard. I love to eat, love my own cooking, make fantastic chocolate chip cookies, like going to restaurants, like beer or wine with a meal. All of those things can pack on the pounds. I will say this, having shed the weight: I'm a lot more comfortable at this weight than I was at my top end. I don't get out of breath walking up stairs, and I don't snore any more when sleeping. It's got to be much, much worse for the extremely overweight.

[NicoleM]

48. Me, too.

The one place I worked that had the highest proportion of obese people: health insurance company. There were a couple hundred people working in one of the buildings. I'm about 35 pounds overweight, and I was one of the thinnest people there.

What concerns me more, though, is the number of really overweight kids I see. When I was a kid, we had one "fat kid" in our whole grade. Now they're everywhere. I was a mentor for a second grader a few years ago, and I hung out in class with her sometimes. Those kids ate CRAP all day long. They would do math with Skittles (the candy, not our DU pal :)) and then eat the Skittles. They had a little candy store in the school where the kids could buy suckers and cookies and stuff. I was amazed.

[ikojo]

88. I work in the health insurance industry (and trust me it's an industry)

and there are many overweight people. I think it's due to the work schedule..there is often a lot of mandatory overtime which leaves little time to exercise. Most people eat lunch at their desks in order to make sure they meet the production quota so that most often means a frozen lunch like Michaelina's. When people order out it is often C'hinese or pizza.

Most women are expected to work ten hours or more a day and then go home to their OTHER full time job; taking care of kids and home.

People in Europe (France specifically) eat more fat ladden meals and eat them at a lter hour than Americans. The primary difference is portion size and the fact that they walk more than Americans. Most auto trips taken by Americans are well within walking distance.

I have friends who get around on bike as their primary form of transport, One friend is a messenger and he eats crappy food like hotdogs and chili on a regular basis.

[THUNDER HANDS]

20. Do you all know what this means?

There's about a half BILLION pounds of beef on Americans.

That's a lot of beef.

[PartyPooper]

21. I'm so glad I took physical education.

In the 1960's it was required. And, it was considered "cool". What happened since those good ole' days? I remember taking a swim class at UT (University of Tennessee) at 7:30 AM!

Today, I'm a 'little' overweight. But, who cares? :-)

But, seriously, I do need to restart my Atkin's regimentation.

:evilgrin:

[Stephanie]

22. NY Times Magazine article about agri-business, over-production

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/12/magazine/12WWLN.html

<snip>But as we're beginning to recognize, our cheap-food farm policy comes at a high price: first there's the $19 billion a year the government pays to keep the whole system afloat; then there's the economic misery that the dumping of cheap American grain inflicts on farmers in the developing world; and finally there's the obesity epidemic at home -- which most researchers date to the mid-70's, just when we switched to a farm policy consecrated to the overproduction of grain. Since that time, farmers in the United States have managed to produce 500 additional calories per person every day; each of us is, heroically, managing to pack away about 200 of those extra calories per day. Presumably the other 300 -- most of them in the form of surplus corn -- get dumped on overseas markets or turned into ethanol.

Cheap corn, the dubious legacy of Earl Butz, is truly the building block of the ''fast-food nation.'' Cheap corn, transformed into high-fructose corn syrup, is what allowed Coca-Cola to move from the svelte 8-ounce bottle of soda ubiquitous in the 70's to the chubby 20-ounce bottle of today. Cheap corn, transformed into cheap beef, is what allowed McDonald's to supersize its burgers and still sell many of them for no more than a dollar. Cheap corn gave us a whole raft of new highly processed foods, including the world-beating chicken nugget, which, if you study its ingredients, you discover is really a most ingenious transubstantiation of corn, from the cornfed chicken it contains to the bulking and binding agents that hold it together.


You would have thought that lower commodity prices would represent a boon to consumers, but it doesn't work out that way, not unless you believe a 32-ounce Big Gulp is a great deal. When the raw materials for food become so abundant and cheap, the clever strategy for a food company is not necessarily to lower prices -- to do that would only lower its revenues. It makes much more sense to compete for the consumer's dollar by increasing portion sizes -- and as Greg Critser points out in his recent book ''Fat Land,'' the bigger the portion, the more food people will eat. So McDonald's tempts us by taking a 600-calorie meal and jacking it up to 1,550 calories. Compared with that of the marketing, packaging and labor, the cost of the added ingredients is trivial. <more>

[Mari333]

32. I hate sweets and I never drink Coke

since they ruined Coke . When I was a kid, they used coke syrup and seltzer water..it was grand. Now its crap.
I dont think Ive had a soft drink in years now that I think about it.
Im sticking to water . and god knows how shitty that is these days.
I never liked sweets, and I eat one meal a day. We actually dont need as many meals as people think, unless we are long distance runners or something.
I probably eat about 1000 calories a day or less. I dont need anymore then that. Not at 52. I dont even count them. I just know Im full, and stop eating.
Maybe thats all it is...knowing when you are full.

[Skittles]

24. I CAN'T SAY A DAMN THING

BECAUSE I EAT MORE THAN EVERY FAT PERSON I KNOW AND THAT'S A FACT.

[amazona]

55. me too -- i'm not that impressed by the diet/obesity link

I eat more than anyone I know well enough to know what they eat, and there is a word I hear used to refer to myself that greatly irritates me. That word is "tiny." I'm glad I'm not overweight, but I wish I was taller and just more of a physical presence. So, as usual, no one is happy with their physical bodies; the grass is always greener.

I will say one thing. With my munificent four figure income, I would quickly be dead of starvation if high taxes were placed on food. I have sat down and kept a log on many occasions of what I eat and how many calories are consumed, and I am satisfied that I need around 3,000 calories a day, or more, to maintain weight. I don't understand this campaign to take away cheap food. Organic food (except for what I can raise myself) is not an option but a high-priced rip-off -- I could not get enough calories on my plate each day for what they charge for organic food. It is a luxury to be able to afford to sneer at 29 cents a pound chicken legs. For some of us, those cheap mass produced chicken legs are a necessity. Indeed, I think a large part of the world's population would be hungry now if we went to all hand-made expensive "slow foods." Those of you who can afford such luxury should be grateful for what you have, rather than wishing to impose taxes on food -- such a suggestion is the ultimate in an unfair regressive tax. Keep in mind that many a consumer of the 99 cent value meals that you object to is a homeless person or poorly housed person with little or no resources for cooking. Healthy, perhaps not. But it's healthier than starvation.


mmmmm, chicken legs...

[spinbaby]

27. Here's how to turn a baby into an obese adult

Feed him baby formula instead of breast milk.
Graduate him to overprocessed high-sugar food.
Advertise "fun" food while he's being pacified by the TV.
Raise him where it's too dangerous to go outside and play.
Send him to a school with no recess.
Nag him about his weight and put him on diets.
Have him live in a society set up to discourage walking farther than the car.
Keep feeding him artificial overprocessed high-sugar foods.
Add a good dose of guilt about his weight.

[AnnabelLee]

28. I'll add one more

Every time he feels bad about something, offer him something to eat.

[Mari333]

33. Food as solace is always bad.

I think thats what is killing my mother and relatives..they eat out of loneliness and need solace.
When I bring my husband to my mothers house she insists I feed him food..Its so weird..My husband and I are both about 5 feet 8 and around 150 lbs..she demands we eat...she wants me to wait on my husband and feed him..he and I say No thanks, but she gets very angry..
In her mind, food is solace..she finds comfort in it...
probly crap she learned as a kid.

[AnnabelLee]

35. That is what my mother always did

Had a bad day at school? Here, have something to eat. Bored? Eat, it's something to do. Can't sleep? Have a midnight snack. Angry at your sister? Eat this, it'll take your mind off of it. And on & on & on. Very hard to break out of years of that sort of conditioning.

[Mari333]

38. I agree

I even did it to my kids when they were little ....Im guilty...always had homemade cookies and homemade meals ready when they were kids..luckily none of them took me up on it, they are all thin..
I hope I broke the cycle of overeating and using solace as food.

[amazona]

58. actually according to a recent study...

...thin people eat just as much for solace, pleasure, comfort, and boredom as fat people. And I agree with this study, because I am thin, and I am guilty of doing all of those things on pretty much a constant basis.

I believe that some people have some control over their size, but when we extrapolate this to the unproven and unlikely conclusion that all people have significant control over their size...well...I'm just not convinced of the evidence.

If you work with animals, you will quickly learn that animals are programmed to eat for social reasons, not just out of inner hunger. Why is that? Because if other animals are eating, it is a safe time to eat, and the opportunity must be taken to get the calories while they are there. Unfortunately, we humans have invented something known as TV, so we can see images of people eating pretty much all day long. Our animal brain doesn't really know the difference between the picture and the reality, and so we are triggered to eat pretty much constantly. Nonetheless, some of us who succumb to these triggers and nibble all day remain then, while others (perhaps most) become fat.

To get away from humans for a moment, look at pet Amazon parrots. Most of them become fat and have fatty livers or heart disease (like humans) if they are not given a very controlled diet, because they are triggered to eat what their people eat, when their people eat. Yet a few Amazon parrots who eat the same, who pretty much chow down all day long like any other, remain thin - I have one of these parrots who is thin into his mid 30s -- so I am not talking about a baby. And no one knows why. I would like him to gain a small amount of weight as a protection against cold and disease, but he eats all day and just doesn't gain as most others do, and there really isn't any explanation as to why.

My honest belief is that there is a mystery cause or factor that we have not yet identified. Otherwise, all of us with access to constant food triggers (everyone with a TV) would be fat except for those with exceptional self-control that runs contrary to our deepest animal instinct that triggers us to eat whenever food is safe and available.



well it's a theory anyway...a very partial theory

[skippysmom]

63. that's really interesting...

...and made me think about a few random observations I have made. First, my cats. They eat the same diet and lead the same indoor lifestyle. One is 10 pounds (and never deviates), one is 15 pounds (and lost about a pound over the last year), and one is 20 pounds (and growing). There must be something genetic there.

Another point I have heard (one I think I heard from Dr. Dean Edell, of all people) is that while we have a hard time believing there are fat people who don't overeat, we all know people who can eat like a horse and stay thin.

I have also observed that while there are more heavy people than there used to be, there also seems to be more tall people than there used to be too. I am a 31 year old 5-9 woman, and growing up I was always one of the few tall women I knew, but when I am around high school or college aged women, there seem to be so many more of them who are my height or taller.

So, putting this rather shoddy evidence together, maybe some of it may be environment, or maybe genetics have more to do with weight than we think.

[Chovexani]

92. Thanks for bringing that up

I'm also a rail-thin person (5'9" 105lbs) that eats everything in sight, eat when I get depressed, etc. I try to walk places (which is easy, since I don't have a license), but I'm fairly sedentary, and the only real exercise I get is a video game called Dance Dance Revolution. I eat a LOT of processed food, fast food, etc. even though I've tried to cut back some. My family--both sides--are large, most of them are at least partially overweight. One of those big families with southern roots, you know, if you don't eat (and take a plate home) it's considered an insult, etc. I get a lot of "chile, they ain't feedin' you" when I see family down south.

I think to some extent the "epidemic" of obesity has a lot with cultural and social issues. But I also agree that there is some mystery element--because, going by the conventional wisdom, I ought to be overweight and I'm not.

Science will find out sooner or later.

[goforit]

29. This could be a Monsanto experiment.

LOL!!!

I must admit this would be a perverse experiment.

[Paschall]

37. Odd no one's mentioned hormones in meat

I've never really studied the problem. When I lived in the states, though, I was vegetarian. Here in France, our meat is free of livestock fattening hormones.

[amazona]

59. probably not too odd

I actually take female hormones myself -- birth control pills. Have done so for (mumble mumble) decades. I'm not fat. I'm thin. My mom has taken HRT for years, as has another of my friends. Both thin. This is just anecdotal evidence obviously, but I think you would have a hard sell convincing women that trace hormones in meat are going to make them fat when taking the damn things directly hasn't done so. In general, just in my experience, women who do HRT are thin, not because hormones make you thin -- they supposedly add 10 pounds of fat -- but because they are the kind of women who are pro-active in doing whatever it takes to keep their bodies younger, like exercise, supplements, etc.

And, yes, I do eat meat. I couldn't afford to stay on a vegetarian diet -- couldn't get enough calories out of produce on my huge four figure income.

It bothers me that a lot of anorexics latch onto concepts like possible trace hormones in meat in order to close more doors on what they can eat. Obesity is not the only problem in the United States. There is a huge, huge, huge, HUGE problem with women starving themselves to death. The woman with obesity may die at 70 instead of 74, but the anorexic may die at 32 instead of 80. So I feel we need to strike a balance in the messages we send when discussing hormones in food. They don't necessarily make women fat. There is something else making women (and now men) fat.



all this talk about food is making me hungry by the way

[Paschall]

99. The hormones used in livestock production...

...include others beside sexual hormones. Notably growth hormones, which are a completely different kettle of fish.

EU Scientists Confirm Health Risks of Growth Hormones in Meat

And I think if you'd been using birth control pills at the original hormone dosage levels set 40 years ago, you might feel differently about them (that is, if you hadn't succumbed to cancer in the meantime). Today's birth control pills contain a wee fraction of the hormones first used.

[SoCalDem]

45. It's not so much the cheap cost, as it is the MARKETING

Advertising WORKS.. Who has not seen a mexican food ad at 11 pm and actually considered going to get some??

We have been brainwashed for ages, and the "chickens are coming home to roost"..(via KFC, of course)

When I was young, the processed foods section was very small.. The produce section were huge, and the bakeries in-store actually baked from scratch..

Our food has layers upon layers of processing, and we get empty calories EVERYWHERE..

We NEVER bought soda pop to bring home.. It was an occasional treat.. It's RARE to see someone these days WITHOUT a can of soda in their hand..

Restaurants coooked from scratch, not from Costco/Kraft/Sisco/SamsClub..


Kids had mandatory gym class, they rode bikes until they were well into their teens..There were school dances often, and lots of outdoor activity...

So many reasons..

People did not work round the clock back then..Moms were home and planned the meals..There were NO drive-thrus ..no delivery
.. Dad got home at 5 pm and dinner was ready..Kids went out to play AFTER dinner until it got dark..

I know I need to lose weight, but I am lazy.. It's my own fault and I hate the fact that I don't "do something about it".. My husband was mad at me because I did not even take a bathing suit to Tahiti, because I did not want to see myself in a swimsuit.:(.. In my mind's eye, I can still see the 105 lb me in a bikini, and I cannot accept what I would look like now :(.. Narcissistic?? maybe.. I vote for realisitic:)

[Piperay]

46. If we had any leadership in this country

a program like what JFK inspired is what should be set up. JFK had people interested in physical fitness but then JFK was a REAL leader and role-model and people looked up to him, just the opposite of what we have now.:argh:

EDIT: left out a word.

[bearfartinthewoods]

47. a lot of these fat people grew up under JFK

a fat lot of good that did them.

some things in this country really aren't bush's fault.

[inthecorneroverhere]

95. Don't poo-poo JFK on fitness!!!!

The problem is that the program didn't LAST. We'd have lots more involvement in youth sports and lots more trails out there for bikes and walkers if JFK's dream had been allowed to continue.

JFK's 'fitness for all' dream wasn't just about hard-core running and team sports but it was also about lower-impact activities like walking, bicycling and about universal, lifetime access for everybody to the activities at gyms which now cost more than minimal-wage workers can afford. There's great low-impact, injury-preventive equipment at gyms now, like ellipticals, that hadn't been invented when JFK was in office. But.....the access is costly, unless you have a cushy job where you employer springs for it.

As :dem:'s we should be creating positive solutions, not poo-pooing ideas! What are :dem:'s about, anyways? We should promote positive approaches to problems, and we shouldn't be afraid to say that a little bit of public intervention ('statism') is needed to build that nice walking trail that will benefit all, from joggers to property-owners (parklands raise property values).

[hippiechick]

49. I am 5'9 and weigh 195 -

yet when i went for a 'new doctor appointment' last year, i was told i am obsese and need to lose 70 lbs.

anyone have any idea what a 120 lb woman at 5'9 would look like ?
calista flockhart would be fat in comparison !!

the 'thinning industry' in this country really pisses me off !!

we are bombarded with media marketing of diet tips, ultra-thin women, sex tips, exercise equipment and slinky clothes ... interspersed with restaurant ads, food channels, and recipes for 'decadent desserts'.

hypocrisy, thy name is Marketing.


:hippie:

[Mari333]

51. that doc is full of it

I went down to 120 when I was in dep grief and trauma back in 89 (widow) and I looked like hell...
maybe that doc has some issues! get a new doc =)

[skippysmom]

56. hippiechick:

I'm also 5'9" and weigh about the same as you do, and with my frame I know I'd look scary if I weighed 120! At 5'9", to have a BMI of 25 (considered a healthy weight) you need to weigh about 170. Even the way conservative Met Life tables that used to be in vogue used 150 as the high end of the "healthy" weight range for that height.

I have battled my weight my whole life, but despite the fact that I should lose about 30-40 pounds to be considered a normal weight, my blood pressure is normal to low, my cholestrol levels are good, and my blood sugars are fine. I eat a decent diet (could do better, especially in the sweets department) and walk for half an hour just about every day. Would I like to be thinner? Of course. Who doesn't?

But I am starting to get very weary of every other news report warning of the dire consequences of being overweight. I know there are genuine health concerns about this "obesity epidemic," but enough already. When you're heavy, you know damn well that you should lose weight. Society has drilled it into the heads of women (and, increasingly, men), no matter what they weigh, that their bodies are not up to standard. Nagging the American public at every turn won't help.

What would help? I would second the suggestions that we do more to encourage exercise by building trails, bike paths, etc. I also think that our country's relentless workaholism promotes bad habits. We sit at our computers every day for hours on end, and are required to work more and more hours, so with a limited number of hours in the day, we have less time for exercise or to make healthy meals at home. So we become more sedentary, more reliant on less healthy processed foods, more dependent on restaurant meals, etc. Perhaps if we actually worked 40 hour weeks again, we'd have time to eat better, exercise, and enjoy life.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

57. Your doctor is just talking through his hat

unless he has weighed you for body-mass (in a water tank). I'm 5/10", and I was told that just my bones, muscles, and organs weigh 130, so it would be impossible for me to go below that weight without losing muscle mass and looking like a Halloween wall decoration.

I'm sure that your body mass weight is somewhere within ten pounds of that figure, so you can safely tell your doctor to stuff it.

[NickB79]

75. God no, not Calista!

I can't stand looking at that woman! Speaking for myself and almost EVERY other guy I know, we would rather date a woman 10 or even 20 lbs overweight than one 10 lbs underweight. The average American woman is 5'-6" and weighs ~135 lbs. I've seen many women that height who are very attractive and weight 140-150 lbs. At 5'-9", losing 70 LBS is insane! I have a friend who's 5'-11" and says she weighs 220 lbs, but everyone guesses her weight at 180 lbs or so when they see her because she's in good shape, exercises a lot. She just can't drop the weight below 200, but she still looks very good. The thought that a doctor of all people told you that scares me for any other young women who might go see him.

[inthecorneroverhere]

94. That MD is off the wall

There is no way that a 5'9" person should weigh 125 unless she is an extremely light-boned teenager. Someone over 20 should by nature weigh more.

Optimal weight is a lot more complex than one number. This doc should have determined your density in water or at least have done a waist-hip ratio. Measuring the hips and also the wrist gives a measure of how heavy-boned a person is. Also, 'waist weight' is more harmful than 'hip weight.'

Some folks are 'heavier-boned' than others. Elite runners are usually light-boned, whereas California's new governor is heavy-boned and also weighs a lot. He weighs a lot because muscle :silly: is denser than other tissue.

It sounds like this doctor is ill-informed about mesomorphs, ectomorphs etc.

BTW, I'm 5'3" and about 125. I could use to lose 10 of that, but would be in dangerous condition below 100 because I have rather large bones. I'm terrible at running but like walking a lot and have started messing around with a set of yard-sale weights to get a faster metabolism. The result after 1 week of 3-4X/week curls, presses etc. is:

1. Arms look a little better and big bag of cat chow is lighter than before (dang that company, they're leaving out product! - just kidding :silly:)
2. I'm hungrier for stuff like meat, juice, fruit and less hungry for cookies and the like. Muscle stress speeds up metabolism.
3. I've been sleeping good!

[Loyal]

97. I would say that maybe

anywhere from 140-160 would be a healthy weight for someone who is that height.

[Robb]

52. Something I've noticed

...since becoming a house-husband, and really thinking about what I'm gonna make for dinner all day.

Feeding myself during the day. It seems to me that speed is related to nutrition. If I'm in a hurry, I'll grab something that takes two minutes or less to prepare; and that stuff seems to be the least healthful thing in the pantry.

If I've got time, I'll prepare something for real, using whole ingredients and so on; and it tends to be more healthful.

Just a thought.

[noonwitch]

54. Oxycontin appears to have promise in treating obesity

It worked for Rush.

[cap]

61. fat is a multidimensional issue...

We do need government support for R&D on this subject and public service campaigns. Parents need to demand that the schools remove junk food and vending machines. School lunches need to go back to having nutritional value but not the crap we used to throw at each other because it was disgusting.

My fiance has a severe weight problem and has been diagnosed as morbidly obese. He is under the care of a doctor who used to be head of the American Bariatric Society. She is wonderful and understands a whole lot about the many factors that go into obseity. She does not recommend bariatric surgery for most of her patients. There are many genetic factors involved in it. Diabetes runs in his family so he has an insulin sensitivity. Treat the insulin sensitivity and a whole lot of weight disappears when the urge to eat handfuls of candy disappears. He has carb cravings. Treat the carb cravings with chromium supplement and endorphin pre-cursors and the cravings are dramatically reduced. Work on eating properly and stress reduction and a lot of problems disappear.

These are his particular circumstances. Other people's circumstances are surely different. I can't recommend finding a good doctor strongly enough. There are a lot of doctors who aren't worth anything so you need to keep looking for the one that works for you.

We need a social change where people have enough time to eat properly. When people have two jobs or are rushing kids from one activity to the next, then they don't have time to eat properly. Isn't it a shame that every hour must be billable such that you can't eat properly? Isn't a shame that your kids must be loaded up in activities in order to get into college so that they don't have time to eat properly?

[Rex]

62. My problem is

Pizza & ranch dressing...oh yeah, and this dam PC.

[ElementaryPenguin]

70. Yikes! An empire, er, nation of lazy, boob tube/"freedom fries" addicted,

Ridiculously easy to manipulate, fat head, coach potato, ignoramuses -increasingly without health insurance, and, after ChimpCo - soon to be devoid of social security!! Just slightly depressing!

:puke:
:puke:

[ElementaryPenguin]

71. And to think how we've always laughed at the Chinese on their bikes!

If only our cities should be so lucky to be filled with people powered bicycles - rather than our stinking dinosaur-juice-propelled smog producers!

[R Hickey]

79. As the skinniest person here, I'll tell you what I know.

When I was young, In the 1950's, my father would sometimes drive us kids across town to our school, and occationally, along the way, Dad would pick up a retired chemistry professor, who would walk several times a week, to his chemistry building, near my school.

Sometimes the professor would be walking along, and my dad would pull over and offer a ride, but strangely, the old professor would refuse my Dad's offer, saying he needed the exercise. That professor, old Dr. Cornhog, is currently 146 years old!

Of course, he probably died about half a century ago, after we moved away, but the point is that he was 94 then, and looked like he'd reached his advanced age mainly by walking a lot.

Now that I am getting old, I force myself to take walks.

I have extremely scenic places to walk, and try to take walks several times a week. I've found that for me, the best paths to walk on are pre-selected paths, within a ten minute drive, so that my time is not waisted.

My personal walking trails consist partly of bike paths, combined with abandoned railroad tracks, foot-bridges, and scenic park trails. On the paths I select, I encounter wildlife more than people. It requires time, but I'd rather walk now, to prevent a stroke, than later, to rehabilitate myself from one.

[sendero]

90. LOL...

.... well there is more heat than light in this thread, and a lot of stuff I vehemently disagree with, but, I'm staying out of it. Mostly, because most of my life I was a scarecrow. At 6'1" and 140 lbs (up until I got a clue about 6 years ago) I looked like a walking toothpick and was not happy about it at all.

I'm to a reasonably lean 180 now and I'd like another 10 lbs of lean weight but that's hard to come by. But one thing I'm am absolutely sure of. If you don't have some outlet for physical exercise, preferably one that causes a reasonable amount of exertion, you will not be healthy. Because our bodies are made to be used and if you sit on your ass all day, your body will not be happy and ultimately neither will you.

[inthecorneroverhere]

96. check out volkssporting ....

To see if there's a club in your area. They have a LOT of clubs in Washington and Oregon and others scattered around. Volkssporting means walking-for-fun-that-anyone-can-do, basically.

I like rails-to-trails, too! Too bad there aren't any near my house!

http://www.ava.org ... or Google the word "volkssporting" (no quotes) and your state.

Congrats to that 94 year old chem teacher!

[Malva Zebrina]

86. We do not need as much food as we have been taught that we need

the USDA is a farce. It is a lobby for the agriculturalists and the meat growers and anybody else with an interest in selling food and making money.

We do not need as much food as we think --because we have been taught that we need that much food, mothers are feeding their kids entirely too much food right from infancy. We do NOT need coke and soda machines in schools or in every public place--they are there, but we do not NEED to chuck money into them on impulse, for no other reason than that we thing we NEED it--we do not NEED juice machines in schools. We do not NEED any SNACKS in schools. One eats three times a day--and that is more than enough. We do not NEED sugar in practically every marketed food. Check the labels--sugar in almost everything we buy--it is NOT necessary. NOT--we do not NEED sugar in our canned green beans.

[belab13]

89. while I am sympathetic to those with thyroid or other medical conditions

that make it very difficult to lose weight, there are an awful lot of lazy people in this country. The weight problem will be solved when oil reserves diminish to the point that our still dependent (thanks to its shortsighted and greedy leaders and lobbyists) economy is in complete shambles and the standard of living plummets. Imagine bicycling that 45 minute commute. Is it doable?

[corarose]

93. I weighed 290 last year before my gastric bypass surgery

I bet the United States is going to be known as the gastric bypass country because of our weight problems.

[Tuf Tuf]

100. Everyone is different

I've always have had empathy towards fat people. I should weigh 400lbs the way I eat but I'm only 20 lbs. overweight.