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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:25 PM
Original message
Cheney Opposes Detainee Legislation
The Bush administration in recent days has been lobbying to block legislation supported by Republican senators that would bar the U.S. military from engaging in "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of detainees, from hiding prisoners from the Red Cross, and from using interrogation methods not authorized by a new Army field manual.

Vice President Cheney met Thursday evening with three senior Republican members of the Senate Armed Services Committee to press the administration's case that legislation on these matters would usurp the president's authority and -- in the words of a White House official -- interfere with his ability "to protect Americans effectively from terrorist attack." Vice President Cheney told senators a bill banning "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of detainees would usurp presidential authority. It was the second time that Cheney has met with Senate members to tamp down what the White House views as an incipient Republican rebellion.

The lawmakers have publicly expressed frustration about what they consider to be the administration's failure to hold any senior military officials responsible for notorious detainee abuse in Iraq and the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. This week's session was attended by Armed Services Chairman John W. Warner (R-Va.) and committee members John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Lindsey O. Graham (R.-S.C.). Warner and Graham last week chaired hearings that explored detainee abuse and interrogation tactics at Guantanamo Bay and the concerns of senior military lawyers that vague administration policies have left the door open to abuse.

Neither Cheney's office nor the lawmakers would say exactly what was discussed at the meeting, citing a routine pledge of confidentiality. But Cheney has long been the administration's chief defender of presidential prerogatives, and at the meeting he reiterated opposition to congressional intervention on the topic of detainee interrogations, according to a source privy to what happened.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/22/AR2005072201727.html
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. What the White House views as an incipient Republican rebellion
Bring 'em on.

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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Usurp the AUTHORITY of the Usurper, that's rich...eom
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Yep. Const Art I Sec 8 [11] clearly gives the authority to Congress. eom
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jojo54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. and this is moral values?????? n/t
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. His approval rating is 17%.
Why should anyone give a shit what he thinks?
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. Usurp the President's authority...
....to determine how MUCH to torture prisoners???? If Adolph Hitler's number two had asked this the entire Reich stag would have laughed at him...Our executive branch moved today to stop the release of videos showing a male child ANALLY RAPED while his mother is restrained and forced to watch...I would purposely give my left nut to a knife to give just one of those mothers 10 minutes alone in a room with Dick Cheney....How can I say this-worthless SLUT, who had more "important priorities" than serving while my brother wandered and KILLED in the highlands of Vietnam-I assure you,we slept in the same bedroom before and none of his 19 year old dreams involved killing people that far away...The "President" flew planes over Texas-WHEN IT WAS CONVENIENT-and Dick Cheney entered college,married and impregnated his wife to avoid what another republican sent my brother to face...I am SO far past disgust I can not articulate my thoughts....
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mbperrin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Well said, and my best thoughts
to you....



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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Usurp presidential authority my arse.
The President is subordinate to the Constitution, to international law as embodied in the various treaties the US is party to, and to the will of the Congress (assuming enough votes to override veto) and courts in matters of law. It's the executive who's "usurping authority" here.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. How "Quaint"...
...from your lips to the Hagues ears...
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. One can hope, anyway...(n/t)
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
8. Dick Cheney is the REAL evil. And John McCain...jesus, after his
treatment as a POW, one would think he'd be the first to condemn this
abuse. Absolutely horrifying.
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catnhatnh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yep...
my biggest disappointment of the last several years was McCains failure to flip out over this,,,Had he done so and pr oven a hard moral core he would have HAD to come out against the current regime.He, and DEMOCRATS have seen photos and videos that, frankly, in one of the better euphemisms I've ever heard, were enough to "Gag a Nazi". All I can say is that sociopaths feel no empathy...And if a former POW feels no outrage or empathy....
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
10. IOW. They want the Senates consent to torture (implied or otherwise)
and such would make them JUST AS GUILTY of WAR CRIMES.



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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. And this is the administration
we are supposed to believe was fairly elected because they represent American "values"? Torture and abuse are now American values? Only in this distorted world of Bush, would a president be considered a good Christian because he opposes gay marriage, abortion, and stem cell research, while wanting to retain for himself the ability to order other human beings tortured and degraded.

This whole thing has gotten so far out of control,so convoluted and mean and evil, that I wonder if we will ever find our way back to being a decent society. Have so many Americans just shrugged their shoulders, figured they weren't going to be affected by being rounded up and tortured, that it's just too damn much trouble to condemn it? We have become a nation of barbarians, led by a sociopath.

For any person who really values human dignity and rights, it is our responsibility to oppose these insane policies relentlessly, and return our country to sanity.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. this tells you all you need to know about BushCo . . .
and the fascists who inhabit it . . .

"a bill banning 'cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment' of detainees would usurp presidential authority"

this is not my father's America . . .
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
14. to the Hague with him!
Fitzgerald, you are our only hope.
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Burried News Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
15. After Roberts? Gonzales?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
16. Bush administration lobbies against prisoner bill: report
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050723/pl_afp/usiraqprisoners_050723182938

WASHINGTON (AFP) - The administration of President George W. Bush is reportedly trying to block legislation that would bar the US military from engaging in "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" of detainees as well as from hiding prisoners from the Red Cross.


The Washington Post said Vice President Cheney met Thursday with three senior Republican members of the Senate Armed Services Committee to press the administration's case.

The administration is arguing legislation on these matters would usurp the president's authority and interfere with his ability "to protect Americans effectively from terrorist attack," according to the report.

The paper said it was the second time that Cheney has met with Senate members to tamp down what the White House views as an incipient Republican rebellion.



Vice President Cheney reportedly met Thursday with three senior Republican members of the Senate Armed Services Committee to press the Bush administrations case against legislation that would bar the US military from engaging in 'cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment' of detainees.(AFP/File/Jung Yeon-Je)

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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. sick sick sick bastards.
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silvershadow Donating Member (321 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. He already has more authority than all other 42 presidents combined
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sattahipdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. A Suspected Terrorist.
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President Kerry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
21. there are no words heinous enough to describe how vile this
bastard is. no words..
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The Cheney and Bush Criminal's Hand Maiden
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
23. "Usurp the president's authority"?? Hey Dickhead Cheney:
This is a bill that if passed will become LAW. The LAW defines the president's authority. Of course, they believe themselves to be ABOVE the law so his position, while idiotic, is not surprising.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
24. Administration now on record officially in favor or torture.
And Cheney personally trying to stiff anyone Republican or Democrat who opposes it.

It'll be interesting to see if they can turn up the voltage on McCain's shock collar to get him to back down. After his disgraceful toeing the GOP line regarding Rove and Plame on Hardball the other night my guess is he will cave.

This should get interesting.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
25. OK, this is getting scary. I've noticed that they are demanding immunity
for the military in an awful lot of their "contracts" with other countries as well.

I was trying to find an article I recently read that mentioned some country that refused to agree to those terms. Can't remember the particulars.

While googling for it I came across these articles related to US military immuninty. These bastards are up to no good.


Global Coalition Voices Support for Kenya's On-Going Resistance to U.S. ICC Immunity Agreement

http://allafrica.com/stories/200507210476.html

Kenya's Firm Stand in Defending ICC Integrity is Welcomed by International NGOs

In a letter sent today to Kenyan President Mwai Kibaki, the Coalition for the International Criminal Court (CICC) - a global network of more than 2,000 non-governmental and civil society organizations - praised Kenya for its continued opposition to signing a bilateral agreement with the United States that would provide US citizens and personnel accused of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes with immunity from the International Criminal Court (ICC).

The CICC is opposed to these agreements because they would violate Kenya's obligations under the ICC treaty. Given the enormous pressure exerted on Kenya by the Bush Administration since 2003 to sign - pressure that has included the threatened loss of millions of dollars of both military and governance aid - the Coalition noted in its letter that Kenya's decision to uphold its commitment to the ICC treaty and to the concept of equality of all before the law despite the threatened loss of US aid "exemplifies a victory of principle over brute power".

Across the world, Kenya joins more than 50 countries that have also rejected these types of agreements which many international governmental and non-governmental legal experts have declared to be in violation of international law and the Rome Statute of the ICC. In just the past month, Ecuador and Mexico have publicly said "no" to an immunity agreement with the United States and last week in Amman, the parliament of Jordan - a country that has provided much-needed assistance to the US in its war on Iraq - also rejected a bilateral agreement with the US, even in the face of a potential loss of millions of dollars of US aid. Of the reported 90+ agreements that have been signed, international law experts claim that less than 25 percent have actually been ratified by parliaments and that the great majority are therefore not legally in effect. In addition, a total of 45 countries have publicly refused to sign a BIA and more than half of the 99 ICC member states have not signed.

In Africa, Benin, Lesotho, Mali, Namibia, Niger, South Africa and Tanzania have also all refused to provide the two-tiered system of international justice that the US is seeking. The majority of countries who have agreed to the aggressive US immunity scheme thus far have been fragile democracies or small, economically vulnerable nations including the Democratic Republic of Congo and Uganda, who both have situations of alleged human rights violations before the Court currently.

more...



http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/1531/1/109/

snip>

Paraguay and the United States recently entered into an agreement that allows U.S. military personnel to enter Paraguay to train officials in counter-terrorism and anti-narcotrafficking measures. According to the Head of Social Communication of the Paraguayan Armed Forces Col. Elio Flores, these U.S. Special Forces units will be working with the National AntiDrugs Secretariat, the Presidential Escort Regiment and the Air Transport Brigade. The U.S. will also provide financial assistance to help stabilize Paraguayan agencies which will be collaborating with U.S. authorities and institute a military-led initiative to provide health care services to the country’s poor in the northeast region of Canindeyu. Jose Ruiz, Public Affairs officer for the U.S. Armed Forces Southern Command office, told COHA that “some military training will be operational in nature,” and the goal is to better equip Paraguayans to deal with the threats of narcotrafficking, terrorism, government corruption and poverty. A contingent of 500 U.S. troops headed by seven officials arrived in Paraguay on July 1 with planes, weapons, equipment and ammunition. This group is the first of at least 13 U.S. units set to enter Paraguay until the agreement expires December 31, 2006.

This agreement grants U.S. soldiers complete legal immunity from some of their actions while they are in the country, affording them the same privileges as diplomats as well as leaving them free from prosecution for any damages inflicted on the public health, the environment or the country’s resources. According to Servicio Paz y Justicia (SERPAJ) Paraguay, the Paraguayan National Congress passed this resolution allowing for the entry of U.S. forces with no debate, behind closed doors and with the public largely unaware of the entire transaction. Joining with SERPAJ, other human rights groups also have voiced their concern, with U.S. military instructors being criticized by human rights activists for having a history of teaching torture tactics to thousands of Latin American mid-level military officers at the U.S.-based School of the Americas since shortly after World War II.

A sense of outrage and concern has flared up from neighboring countries. The U.S. forces are using the Mariscal Estigarribia airport base, which underwent construction by the U.S. in 2000 to allow for the reception of large numbers of troops and weapons and to also facilitate the landing of B-52 and Galaxy planes. With the facility having a capacity to hold 16,000 troops and its proximity to the borders of Argentina, Brazil and Bolivia, Paraguay’s South American neighbors are questioning Washington’s intentions at Mariscal Estigarribia, fearing thatthey may include more than just drugs and terrorism. Asunción’s initiative with the U.S. is cloudy enough to put the reputation of President Nicanor Duarte at serious risk. Presenting himself as a new force in Latin America, Duarte had appeared to be dedicated to close cooperation with the South American countries pursuing a policy of autonomy from the U.S. Now, Duarte’s critics are questioning his willingness to accommodate Uncle Sam, picturing him as the South American equivalent of El Salvador’s President Antonio Saca.

Regional Powers Angered by Immunity Concession

The decision by the Paraguayan legislature to proceed with the agreement came as a shock to Paraguay’s more powerful neighbors Argentina and Brazil, who repeatedly have refused granting comparable immunity to U.S. military officials. According to the Buenos Aires daily, El Clarín, the inability of Paraguay to hold U.S. forces accountable for their actions while in the region greatly undermines the power of the International Criminal Court and the Paraguayan judicial system. Particularly unnerving is the proximity of the Paraguayan base to the highly controversial Triple Border Area, where the three countries meet. Notorious for accusations brought against it for being a staging ground for terrorist plots, this new arrangement is meant to give the U.S. military a more justified presence in the eyes of many would-be critics, and also could someday provide for a greater ease of entry of U.S. forces into Argentina and Brazil.

more...



El Salvador Ratchets Up its US Ties

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July05/Tarker0720.htm

snip>

The ILEA Mission

ILEAs -- there are four others worldwide -- have been established, usually without great controversy, in regions where the history of U.S. intervention has been marked by a much lower profile. The overarching goal of the INL in establishing these police training schools at its best is to improve transnational cooperation on security matters, democratic rule and lawful procedures in any given strategic region. The State Department’s statement of purpose proclaims that through the ILEAs, it is seeking to “buttress democratic governance through the rule of law; enhance the functioning of free markets through improved legislation and law enforcement; and increase social, political, and economic stability by combating narcotics trafficking and crime.”

Generally, the ILEA instructors are largely part of an international task force, the curriculum is primarily developed by the U.S. and costs are shared bilaterally between the U.S. and the host nation. ILEAs use a variety of courses to train police leadership with the expectation that they will in turn go on to professionalize their forces. The first ILEA was set up in Budapest by the State Department in 1995 under President Bill Clinton, in response to a shifting geopolitical scene that saw many countries emerge from Eastern Block communism without wholly qualified security forces. The ILEA Budapest has caused few problems since its founding. In Latin America, however, the State Department’s attempt to secure a site for the ILEA has been a mounting struggle, on a hill of its own making. El Salvador’s problematic newfound openness to the institution is indicative of ARENA steering the country into increasing dependency on the U.S.

The Breadth of Salvadoran Compliance

El Salvador showed its capacity for harmonizing to U.S. policy goals long before entering negotiations for the ILEA Latin America. ARENA has been institutionalizing its compliance with Washington’s policy initiatives in the country regardless of any resulting harm to Salvadoran national interests or the genuine developmental needs of its society. Dollarized since 2001, El Salvador was the first country in Central America to ratify the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) and is the only Latin American nation still maintaining troops in Iraq. Additionally, it already plays host to a U.S. military base at La Comalapa as well as an FBI installation, which both operate with the stated purpose of dealing with Salvadoran youth gangs’ links to drug trafficking in the U.S. The ILEA’s goals overlap with those of the institutions it already has ensconced in El Salvador.

Whatever Happened to the ILEA South?

The U.S. has had to search gingerly to come upon a western hemisphere country that would agree to its terms for an ILEA to be based there; strategic considerations were largely made to defer to finding a nation with the political will to host the institution. After Panama rejected the project, negotiations with Costa Rica almost came to fruition in 2002 but ultimately foundered in what could become an extremely useful case study for El Salvador’s critics of the ILEA. Tom Browne, an INL official, emphasized to the Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) that one reason for the initiative’s failure was that Costa Rica “wanted a different type curriculum, more of a theoretical type of training than a hands on type of training.” However, in 2002, the greatest source of discord was the important fact that the U.S. obstinately refused to sign a clause barring military instructors or armed forces personnel from the program. Moreover, the U.S. was in the process of withdrawing from the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court at the time and was demanding diplomatic immunity from prosecution for the academy’s U.S. personnel. The distribution of the ILEA’s costs was also perceived by many Costa Ricans as being grossly unfair.

more...


Ecuador rejects US military aid
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-06/23/content_3124695.htm

QUITO, June 22 (Xinhuanet) -- The Ecuadorian armed forces said Wednesday that they support President Alfredo Palacio's decision to reject conditional military aid provided by the United States.

"Not long ago, the president said it is not possible, in exchange of military aid, to grant immunity to US troops and lose sovereignty," said Joint Chief of Staff Manuel Zapater.

He said Ecuador has given "much more than whatever has been at its reach" with the acceptance of a US base at Manta Port and the deployment of 8,000 Ecuadorian troops to watch over the Colombian border affected by an internal armed conflict.






On a side note, I didn't know there were 20,000 private security personnel in IRAQ...all immune to any prosecution of course.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~gabdullah2/22-7-05-kurds-want-us-guard-hand-over.htm

snip>

Private security guards, most of them former soldiers, were granted immunity from prosecution by Iraq's former US administrator Paul Bremer in June 2004 and their combined forces number more than 20,000, the second largest foreign force in Iraq after the US army.

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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. So Heartless has risen from his crypt
to issue more threats and lies. I guess it's good that he is still alive so that he can face charges of crimes against humanity.
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