Pressure on U.S. to Use More Surveillance

[Eugene]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-5161959,00.html

Pressure on U.S. to Use More Surveillance

Saturday July 23, 2005 6:46 PM

AP Photo LON829

By ROBERT TANNER

AP National Writer

NEW YORK (AP) - Pressure is building for greater use of video cameras
to keep watch over the nation's cities - particularly in
transportation systems and other spots vulnerable to terrorism -
after the bombings in London.

The calls have come over the last few weeks as British investigators
released surveillance footage of the bombers in the deadly July 7
attacks and then put out frames of suspects in Thursday's failed
attacks.

"I do not think that cameras are the big mortal threat to civil
liberties that people are painting them to be," Washington, D.C.,
Mayor Anthony A. Williams said Friday.

He's not alone. While privacy advocates question their effectiveness,
Sen. Hillary Clinton called for New York City subway officials to
install more cameras, even though officials said some 5,000 cameras
are already in use across all modes of city travel. In Stamford,
Conn., Mayor Dan Malloy said it's time to revisit a 1999 ordinance
that limited cameras to watching traffic.

more...

[Trillo]

1. If they're going to do this, should the video

recordings be public records? "Privacy" says no, but isn't privacy also used to keep corrupt secrets hidden?

[Trillo]

18. Who's going to PROFIT?

Not the people who lose privacy, if recent history is any guide.

[Deja Q]

22. Exactly. It's not about protection. It's about profit.

[mongo]

2. I am not opposed to camera's in public places

but I heard a story recently about a pilot program in Chicago, where there will now be microphones too.

I don't have an expectation to not be seen in public, but I do expect to be able to have a private conversation if there is no one within earshot.

[ovidsen]

8. audio as well as video?

The Chicago police video surveillance net includes microphones that are engineered to pinpoint gunshots. At least that's what Chicago officials say in this AP item:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/05/crime.prevention.ap/index.html

Police in squad cars can use onboard computers to direct cameras and microphones at suspicious locations. Nobody's saying anything about listening in on conversations, but the technology exists. Big brother could be watching and listening.

[mongo]

9. From what I remember

It is both the gunshot locating technology and pinpoint microphones on cameras.

[htuttle]

3. "Pressure is building", "Calls have come..."

What's with this passive voice stuff? WHO is building pressure? WHO is calling for more surveillance? They give a couple of examples of politicians wanting more surveillance, but do a couple of (mostly powerless) politicians constitute 'pressure'?

I think they go the passive voice route to avoid giving us a target to blame for it.

[Extend a Hand]

4. yes!

I absolutely hate that.

[htuttle]

5. For example,

...there are a LOT more politicians and various civil leaders who are in favor of nationalized health insurance than there are for increased surveillance. But you don't ever read, "Pressure is building for a national health care plan" or "Calls have come for national health insurance".

[daleo]

19. Or to imply the citizenry is crying for something, whether they are or not

When water boils, the bubbles come from below. I think that is the mental image they are going for.

[bennywhale]

6. Fight it. Here in England you are filmed all day every day and it is

so claustrophobic. Once the floodgates are opened there is no stopping them.

In fact where i write this from i keep my curtains closed due to there being a camera on top of a tower block about 1/4 of a mile away that sometimes appears to be pointing directly at my window.

The effectiveness of cameras is in dispute, even with the release of these images.

It leads police to be lazy and not use traditional policing methods. By releasing these images they will rely on them without using other methods, when other methods woul;d suffice.

I also remember a murder of a young student. CCTV footage of a man running across a train track was released. It was shown again and again at the time. It was then shown again a year later as a last appeal. The police had invested their entire case into this image which in the end turned out to be futile. The man in the picture was not responsible, so when they changed course eventually 18 months had passed and no one was ever caught.

I belive it restricts the lateral investigative thinking of the police.

[onebox30]

12. Interesting viewpoint.

I had never thought of it in that manner. I have always considered CCTV to be a benefit for law-abiding citizens, but thanks for bringing-up the effects it may have on policing.

[Callalily]

7. Who plans on viewing all these

tapes, and listening to the audios? More tax dollars wasted on nonsense.

[Solo_in_MD]

10. Actually they make good monkey wrenching targets

There are a number of sites on how to monkey wrench surveillance and even photo radar sites. I really don't believe the safety line (esp with the traffic).

[ConfuZed]

11. Those cameras didnt do crap to prevent terrorism in London

[darkism]

29. EXACTLY! n/t

[sweetheart]

13. That's a great idea

They should put a camera on every intersection in america, that can
rotate 360 degrees, and put all the footage on the internet. Then there
will be total transparency.

Then make a mandatory law that all citizens have a camera embedded behind
their ear, with an optical cable projecting through their temple in to
the eyebrow, so that a secret camera would photograph every single thing
that a human being sees or does.

Then put all of these videos on the internet, and everyone can arrest
everyone else, and nobody will be left outside of prisons and mental
institutions to work and pay taxes for the prisons and mental institutions. In the meantime, people who have lots of sex would
be really popular on the internet site.

:-)

Put a camera on every car, to record all the license plate numbers it
sees as it drives around. Then run a huge database engine with live
feeds from the cars, and track all the citizens as they drive around.

Or implant GPS nodules in to the tops of poeple's skulls so they can
think like real republicans. And a satellite can watch us all from
space and see all of america brushing their teeth and farting.

Or.. hmmm. plexiglass bellybuttons with cameras built in to them,
that young women in short tops could monitor crowds. I'd bet that
the president gets good porn videos already, but this would certainly
give the republicans more porn to watch when they masturbate over
fucking people.

[mbperrin]

14. Huh! I didn't know that Halliburton and Carlyle were selling

cameras now....

Be durned....

[bemildred]

15. I want a camera recording ALL public officials at all times.

And all in the public record. Then you will see some changes.

[cosmicdot]

20. surely DC Mayor Anthony Williams will volunteer to be 1 of the 1st

another great moment in the advancement of civil liberties
:sarcasm:

"I do not think that cameras are the big mortal threat to civil
liberties that people are painting them to be," Washington, D.C.,
Mayor Anthony A. Williams said Friday.

[bemildred]

21. Yep, it's all a matter of who is watched and who watches.

I'm always fascinated by the way the watchers just self-appoint themselves, and nobody calls them for their voyeuristic tendencies.

As for the practical issues, surveillance is mainly an intimidation method, you CANNOT actually watch everything and react to that parts that matter, there is too much of it, and no self-respecting suicide attacker is going to be intimidated, he or she is just going to make themselves harder to see.

[wli]

26. suicide bombers intend to be dead after attacking anyway

Why would they care about surveillance?

[kestrel91316]

24. Works for me.

[Swamp Rat]

16. Who is applying "the pressure?" John Poindexter?

CEOs from security/technology groups? Bushler's DAARPA fascists?

17. This is seriously disturbing

especially in relation to all the other fascistic crap going on.

people should help spread this statement:
http://worldcantwait.org/

[Rex]

23. Mandatory braincam implant!

"You have deviant thoughts citizen, come with us for refocus therapy."

[leesa]

25. Total waste of our money.

[bassman79]

27. Accept a police state or the terrorists will get you

I wonder if we just say "Ok, Ok, just set up the damn Police State!" if they'd hold off on killing anymore people in their staged terrorist attacks?

[cal04]

28. looks like all are on the same page, very interesting

SURVEILLANCE cameras would help Australia after a terrorist attack, but closing yawning gaps in aviation and railway security should be a priority, Labor leader Kim Beazley said today.

Mr Beazley welcomed remarks by Prime Minister John Howard that Australia might need to step up use of closed circuit television cameras in railway stations and on streets.

Mr Howard, who is in London, said he was impressed with the effectiveness of the city's cameras following the July 7 blasts which killed 56 people, including four bombers.

But the Opposition leader criticised Mr Howard for being "terribly vague" on the topic and said Australia must focus its efforts on prevention.



http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16032704%255E1702,00.html

[Solly Mack]

30. "calls have come" sounds like Fox News' "some have said"

other words....pure bullshit

[area51]

33. Exactly what I was thinking. (n/t)

[fshrink]

31. Pressure on US to use more surveillance. (AP)

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=528&e=2&u=/ap/20050724/ap_on_re_us/us_security_cameras

Nothing beats the "war on terror" to maintain and develop the control and submission of an increasing number of people.

[TomClash]

32. Oh what a surprise