All Quiet on the Home Front…Some Soldiers Are Asking Why

[kskiska]

WASHINGTON, July 23 - The Bush administration's rallying call that America is a nation at war is increasingly ringing hollow to men and women in uniform, who argue in frustration that America is not a nation at war, but a nation with only its military at war.

From bases in Iraq and across the United States to the Pentagon and the military's war colleges, officers and enlisted personnel quietly raise a question for political leaders: if America is truly on a war footing, why is so little sacrifice asked of the nation at large?

There is no serious talk of a draft to share the burden of fighting across the broad citizenry, and neither Republicans nor Democrats are pressing for a tax increase to force Americans to cover the $5 billion a month in costs from Iraq, Afghanistan and new counterterrorism missions.

There are not even concerted efforts like the savings-bond drives or gasoline rationing that helped to unite the country behind its fighting forces in wars past.

"Nobody in America is asked to sacrifice, except us," said one officer just back from a yearlong tour in Iraq, voicing a frustration now drawing the attention of academic specialists in military sociology.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/politics/24troops.html

[liberaliraqvet26]

1. No they are just buying more hummers...

and putting $3 Made in China "support oor troops" ribbons all over them

[Noxmtbnk]

24. exactly...

[Seabiscuit]

50. Think of all the Humvee armor one could buy for the price of one Hummer

[calimary]

102. TELL ME about it! I have an elderly neighbor down the street whom

I sometimes drive to various doctor appointments, and she and I were talking about this very thing - months ago. She was becoming disenchanted with "her" party. An ardent, lifelong Republican with some gnawing and accellerating buyer's remorse. I asked her if she didn't have some kind of victory garden during the Second World War - which she and her husband lived through - and didn't she have to give up her nylon stockings and ration sugar and gasoline and buy war bonds and all this other stuff to TRULY AND GENUINELY support our troops? She was furious about this and vigorously agreed. She was furious that people would still care more about their own selfish, chincey little buck-98 tax cuts.

Another DUer here spoke of owning a bumper sticker that I LOVED - "is your yellow ribbon buying them more body armor?"

[WorseBeforeBetter]

122. Great bumper sticker - just stumbled upon this one...

"I Got My Tax Cut, You Got No Armor".

P.S. That's great to hear re your neighbor. A former coworker, die-hard Republican gun nut is beyond disgusted with this current crew, so maybe the tide is turning.

[calimary]

123. She is disgusted. But more about what the idiot bastard wants to do

to Social Security. She was beside herself about that one.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

131. Yes but will she continue to vote Repub?

[Burried News]

2. The weather in Baghdad today Hi 113 F Low 89F RH19%

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day_f.shtml?world=2047

[Burried News]

5. Crotch pot cooking weather...

[Jacobin]

6. Scattered mortar attacks likely in the evening in Baghdad

60% chance of small weapons fire tonight and into the morning. Early afternoon IEDs likely in and around Fallujah.

[Burried News]

8. Yes weather to earn an Iron Cross - ooops same shit wrong war.

[Rebellious Republican]

16. Jacobin you have always had a very dry witt slanted...

on the dark side in your humor.

I like that in a DU'er. :evilgrin:

[NYC]

It will be 120 degrees F on Thursday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day_f.shtml?world=2047

Sunrise 6:12 (AST), Sunset 20:06 (AST)

120°F Daytime High

95°F Nighttime Temp.

15% Relative Humidity

Wind NW 15 mph

Visibility: excellent
Pressure in Millibars: 998

[havocmom]

3. So, slapping a magnetic pretend yellow ribbon on the SUV isn't enough?

Who knew?

We knew. We shouted it from streets all over the nation and world in marches and protests before the invasion and since then. The neocons and their corporate media hand maidens do not want that message out. They figure the masses might object if the war effort got personal.

Our military personel are basically being held hostage in a war designed solely for that purpose. The ransom we pay goes to the corporations the war mongers are in bed with.

When is enough enough, America? When do you stand up and become involved? We're getting there. Take the damn magnets off the cars and support the troops by demanding moral and competent leadership!

[Burried News]

15. Two of mine have 3 tours "Over There" so far.

Same shit for still another war. Imagine how many wars there would be if we weren't a God Fearing Christian Nation?

[shanti]

18. i'm so sorry to hear that

:hug: my son will be deployed "over there" in september:-(

[Burried News]

27. Harder on a mother than a father. God bless and keep them safe.

May all the bullets miss their mark and all the shells be duds.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. We'll be thinking about them, BN...what a stupid war.

[shanti]

137. thank you

for the kind words...:hug:

[AwakeAtLast]

43. {{{{{HUGS}}}}} to you and your family.

My husband landed there recently. Is this your son's first deployment? Let me know if you need to vent.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

[Burried News]

Both are home now - one is my daughter

They have a fair number of years to go to meet their commitments - could see 2 more tours easily. So far no injuries. But their training here in the states is also quite hazardous.
Prayers for your husband. Very hard on your family - thank you (and him) for serving.

[calimary]

105. Ay-yi-hi - your husband's over there? Man...

I'm so sorry. GEEZ, what a nightmare...

[shanti]

135. yes, the first

he's af in germany, desk job. he says he's going to one of the "stans", but can't tell me exactly where. my sis seems to think it's to the newest base in afghanistan.

i'm very scared - he's my oldest son.

[ninkasi]

60. I pray that he will remain safe

and return to you whole, in body and soul. This illegal war is a travesty of everything I ever held dear about our country. Bush and his gang of thugs are ruining our country, and everything else they touch. They cannot be gone soon enough for me.

[calimary]

104. I'm sorry to hear that, too, shanti. HORRIBLE!!!

Our prayers are with him - AND with you.

DAMN how we tried to stop this utter madness... We TRIED! HARD!!!

[shanti]

136. thanks

:hug: this will be a trying time.

[leesa]

39. Well, being "God fearing Christians" is part of the reason we are there

To kick the evil-doer Muslim butt. It will be part of the reason we go on to Iran and Syria and Lebanon and so on...

[w8liftinglady]

49. Mine is on his 2nd

well...third if you count Afghanistan...I'll think positive thoughts for all our kids...

[Burried News]

62. Prayers for you and yours.

Lotta work invested in those guns I see. Look like 120mm cannons from here. :)

[calimary]

106. We'll be thinking positive thoughts and sending prayers to yours, too.

I'm so sorry your family has to endure this. I'm sorry ANY American family has to endure this. Just as long as our darling bush family doesn't have to...

[calimary]

103. Aw DAMN. I'm so sorry - I hope and pray they come home to you

unscathed. Thanks for the sleepless nights, george, for American parents EVERYWHERE. :grr:

[Supersedeas]

142. I can image....

[DeepModem Mom]

34. The magnets were my first thought also -- not what our troops had in mind

apparently.

[ordinaryaveragegirl]

84. I agree...

It seems like a way to capitalize on the troops, not support them. If people are paying $3 or $4 for one of those things, unless you get it from somewhere charitable, the $$$ is probably going to the Waltons or some poor other schmuks who don't need the money.

[calimary]

107. Welcome to DU! I saw a lot of those stupid yellow ribbon and

red-white-and-blue ribbons with the "Support Our Troops" and "God Bless America" buzz phrases on them - at one of those big home-repair emporiums. Turned one of the packages over, and sure enough - "Made in China." THAT'S who's getting the money. China and its various business brokers. Nice patriotic thing to do, ain't it? Sorta GITS ya, right HERE...

What a disgrace!!! Glad you're here, ordinaryaveragegirl. The more of us the better to work on stopping this war and the bastards who keep pushing it. So our troops can COME HOME!!!!!!!!!!

[amber dog democrat]

94. Its not a true analogy but...

Your observation:

" Our military personel are basically being held hostage in a war - "

I am wondering about how unpopular wars have a tendency to bring about political change, or in extreme cases revolutions. Once a flash point arrives its too late to spin, obstruct or hide the truth.


I believe we are headed in this direction. At the very least some fundamental changes are likely, but how and of what nature I can't even guess.

[kestrel91316]

4. Because "the American way of life is not negotiable", silly

[Solly Mack]

7. No, what they are asking for is a country that approves of the war

When they say "sacrifice", they really mean "approves"

If they want the nation to back a war that many feel is illegal, they will be wanting for a long time to come.

I don't support Iraq (or Afghanistan for that matter) and I don't support those in the military that have opted to become war criminals....but that doesn't mean I don't care what happens to the rest of the troops. However, I'm not doing a single solitary thing that lends an ounce of legitimacy to the war.

I'm not planting a victory garden. I'm not supporting a draft. I'm not buying war/saving bonds. Fuck that. Ain't happening.

If anyone thinks living under the Bush regime isn't sacrifice enough....fuck them.

[saigon68]

63. The ones who volunteer in the FUTURE ARE FOOLS

The Ones who re-enlist are bigger fools.

No sympathy here--- most amerikans in a few years will feel the way I do.

We are suffering at home because a stupid CHIMPANZEE War Criminal attacked a drunken man. who was in a wheel chair (Iraq).

Now the rest of the Muslims are out to kick a little CHRISTIAN ASS.

[alarimer]

70. You're right

I don't support this war; I won't buy savings bonds or anything like that.

[Voltaire99]

81. Solly has nailed it.

The NY Times piece is an attempt at cultural blackmail.

The right wing demands that its vanity war should become a popular event, supplying all the hero worship, mythic ritualism and melodramatic grandeur of invasions past.

No chance. The war is illegitimate in every respect, and while I wish for the safe return of the troops, it is not my war.

And that is increasingly true in a nation that is shaking off the spell of 9/11 and asserting that it is not its war, either.

As for this Civilian Reserve idea, ha ha ha! Bet there's simply an unlimited supply of "bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, electricians, plumbers and solid-waste disposal experts" willing to go to Iraq, eh?

[Solly Mack]

82. Exactly.

"The right wing demands that its vanity war should become a popular event, supplying all the hero worship, mythic ritualism and melodramatic grandeur of invasions past."

Beautifully said!

[calimary]

108. Speaking of beautifully said, Solly Mack,

"If anyone thinks living under the Bush regime isn't sacrifice enough....fuck them."

YES. That is MORE THAN SACRIFICE ENOUGH. I feel like a frickin' HOSTAGE. I want my country BACK! I want the war STOPPED!! I want bush's ass IN JAIL!!!

[Solly Mack]

127. We have lost so much because of him

and not just jobs and stuff.... that man has wounded Americas soul.

[IndianaGreen]

83. and most of those troops still love Bush

and think they are doing GAWD's work in Iraq.

Let them lose their faith in the false idols they are worshiping.

For our part, our only responsibility lies in our efforts to oppose this war and bring all of the troops home, alive and safe, even those that still have a plastic Jesus on the dashboard of their Humvees.

[liberaliraqvet26]

85. you would be surprised...

most have awoken, they are keeping the dissenters (like myself) out of the media though

[Skwmom]

95. And where did you get this information from?

Thousands of soldiers have been sent to Iraq. So please tell us how you know what thousands (most) of the troops are thinking?

[IndianaGreen]

96. They haven't done what the Russian army did in 1917

Throw their rifles down and return home to topple the Tsar.

Did you read the story posted elsewhere in DU about the increased reenlistment rates? Looks like larger re-up bonuses are enough to silence their consciences.

[MindPilot]

124. what choice would you make when faced with the decision to

re-up for a fat bonus or stay in anyway under stop-loss? Of course re-enlistment figures are up; they have no choice.

[IndianaGreen]

128. Tell their CO they are gay!

The military will have them on the first plane home. Better gay than dead!

The military is so homophobic that they won't even challenge a gay assertion, they think that any hetero that would make such a claim is too disturbed to be permitted in uniform.

[MADem]

117. I disagree

Discontent is evident from E-1 to 0-10. They've had it up to here. From the same article:
Members of the military who discussed their sense of frustration did so only when promised anonymity, as comments viewed as critical of the civilian leadership could end their careers. The sentiments were expressed in more than two dozen interviews and casual conversations with enlisted personnel, noncommissioned officers, midlevel officers, and general or flag officers in Iraq and in the United States.

And then, there's this: Army Likely to Fall Short in Recruiting, General Says http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/24/politics/24recruit.html?ei=5094&en=724df10ec5c825fc&hp=&ex=1122177600&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1122221411-1YTrIp64Cabc6ASB/uAbpA

And if they are so happy and supportive of this misadventure, why is the Zero (drug) Tolerance, All Volunteer Force having an upswing in drug use in Iraq? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/23/wirq23.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/07/23/ixportal.html

...Aside from random urine tests and barrack room searches, commanders have asked their troops to inform on colleagues. In the past month a soldier has been arrested for selling cocaine and two per cent of the troops from one brigade have been charged with drug and alcohol abuse.

According to US army figures, out of the 4,000 men of the 256th Brigade Combat Team, 53 faced alcohol-related charges and 48 were charged with drug offences.

Since the overthrow of Saddam's regime the borders that have been so porous for insurgents have been equally open for heroin and hash smugglers from Afghanistan and Iran providing a cheap market for troops. With colleagues being killed or wounded on a daily basis, some US soldiers have turned to drugs to escape the horrors of fighting insurgents.

In one case, according to Stars and Stripes, the in-house US forces newspaper, Sgt Michael Boudreaux was found with drugs, four bottles of whiskey and 22 videos of Iraqi pornography. He received a seven month confinement, was demoted to private and given a bad conduct discharge.

In another case, Pte Emily Hamilton told a court martial that she used a hashish pipe belonging to a colleague because "it helped me go right to sleep". She was given a year's confinement and a bad conduct discharge.

The military is starting to fray, badly. They've stopped kicking people out for failing physical readiness tests, it's only a matter of time before they stop getting harsh on drugs and giving them the boot, simply because they need the bodies so desperately. The climate is sort of like the 70's post-Nam, where the troops feel underpaid, unloved, disrespected from without and within, but with a war as the icing on this horrible cake. Morale sucks. These servicemembers are just too professional to spout on about it publicly, but they are not happy campers.

If they resume drafting, all bets are off--you'll see a lot more complaining from uniformed personnel in the press, on the record, and for attribution. Draftees don't feel the same level of allegiance, because they didn't CHOOSE a service career, it was foisted on them like a punishment of some sort.

[llmart]

88. I'm with you......

I don't want anyone to think I support this criminal action of the neocons. I never supported the Afghanistan thing either. I knew it would do no good and I was right.

My bumper sticker I've had on my car since then is "War is Not the Answer" (courtesy Marvin Gaye).

[calimary]

109. So's mine. My "War is Not the Answer" bumper sticker is all puckered

and sun-damaged. I'm proud of the thrashed way it looks - because it looks like a bumper sticker that's been there a LONG time. Because it has. It's actually inside, taped to my rear window, smack-dab in the middle. Safe, so nobody can vandalize it. I got it at one of the local anti-war rallies.

[llmart]

130. Got mine from a couple of Dominican nuns.......

and it's on the outside of the window and never been touched. I'd just replace it with a new one anyway. I've never been afraid to speak my mind, I don't care who likes it. If those of us who are smart enough to see the criminals in the WH for what they are are intimidated by them and those like them (aka freeper types) then we are just as guilty.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

9. I got news for the officer that believes "nobody in America is asked....

...to sacrifice" except the military. Maybe he needs to look around and take note of the fact that the vast majority of Americans are definitely feeling the increase in the cost of just about everything, and being paid far less than they were in 2000.

The NeoCons got the military into this mess, the military is going to have to get themselves out, one way or the other.

And if anyone wants a tax increase, tell them to take it from the top 1% who got the big tax break...the rest of us are tapped out.

[rzemanfl]

11. It is real important that the military understands this so they know

who to target when the coup comes.

[rodeodance]

20. of course we were not asked-our Congress forced in on us-the wars-

the tax the rich less, the effects such as increased gas prices, etc etc.

[WhiteTara]

73. our sacrifices here at home are more for

the tax cuts for chimpy's friends and family. The sacrifices of our nation's military will take a toll for generations to come.
IMPEACH BUSH AND SEND HIM TO THE HAGUE

[raccoon]

140. In my state (SC), funding for state agencies has been cut

--Department of Mental Health is really hurting. Most public schools have funding problems too.

[daleo]

10. Bush said the best way to participate was to go shopping

According to this logic, maximum sacrifice is demonstrated by the purchase of luxuries. Sure, it seems like a paradox, but the rich understand.

[mcscajun]

28. When I heard that...I nearly puked.

See my post below for I really HAD expected to hear. Silly me.

[MasonJar]

12. If Americans had to sacrifice for this useless preemptive war, the

troops would all be home.

[Bullwinkle925]

13. I can't remember who said this but it really stuck in my head.....

"if you go out today anywhere in America, the malls, city centers, grocery stores, ANYWHERE, and look around, can you tell this country is at war?".
I am probably not quoting exactly but that was the gist. And it's true. People are shopping, driving their cars, taking their kids to movies, sleep-overs, shopping, etc - but nothing is apparent that we are at war. The only people who are aware are those who have lost loved ones. Hell, we can't even see the bodies coming home. Just names quoted on different shows (i.e. "This Week" w/George Stephanopolous). It's outrageous not too mention disrespectful to those who have given their lives.

[Jara sang]

31. Was at Arlington this past week.

Saw the new Operation Iraqi Freedom site. Several nice little rows about 200 grvae markers in all. Ten of those had fresh dirt and didn't have the markers up yet. Fuck Bush. I've been to those graves I've seen them. He hasn't even been to a military funeral. he is a coward.

[Mythsaje]

35. Jerry Springer...n/t

[Bullwinkle925]

59. Was it? I just can't remember - but I don't doubt it.

It indeed stuck in my head. And I look around when I go out and mingle in the 'public'. Everyone is having a good time it would seem.

[vogonjiltz]

14. Members of the armed forces are volunteers,

they are paid to shoulder our sacrafices. They are mere tools of our fascist kleptocracy.

[ikojo]

100. But if they are shouldering our sacrifices, why is it only

working class kids who, for the most part, are shouldering the sacrifices? Shouldn't children from more well off families also be asked to shoulder sacrifice?

[Jacobin]

17. Well, its a start...the fact they are asking questions is a good sign

Once it hits them how they have been used, it'll be the late 1960's all over again.

And about time.

[depakid]

19. Take a good long look in the mirror NY Times

Your senior editors- and the rest of the cowardly senior editors in the so called "mainstream media" are more to blame than anyone in this country- and I hope it brings each and every one of you all the karma you deserve.

[goforit]

22. Way to go depakid!!!!!

You tell those A**Holes!!!!

[calimary]

112. You said it, my friend.

The media could have shortstopped this with the barest bit of effort. They were all so afraid of losing their precious "Access." Hell, the Knight-Ridder news service never was invited to the grown-ups' table and never got any of the good interviews - so guess what they got instead? They got all the scoops. They had no one available to talk to except the people among the opposition, including scientists, weapons inspectors and other folks lower down in the State Department and Pentago who said all along that this whole crap-shoot was bogus. They're the ones who also brought us the Downing Street Minutes story first while the other lapdogs stayed asleep.

[MountainLaurel]

115. Especially considering

That Judy Miller's lies about WMDs, courtesy of her friend Chalabi, were one of the justifications for invading in the first place.

[IndianaGreen]

129. Don't forget Tom Friedman and Judith Miller

two of the most culpable war cheerleaders.

[goforit]

21. The NYT just sucks!!!!!................

America doesn't want Bush!!!

They don't want war!!!!

They don't want a racist or religious war!!!

They don't want NYT propaganda!!!

They want their rights back!!!

[okieinpain]

23. doesn't look like they are unhappy to me. hell looking at this

picture I thought they were having the time of their lives.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4173752&mesg_id=4173752

[Rose Siding]

126. That photo is hard to take

:(

[delete_bush]

25. maybe they should phone-in to pig-boy's

radio show, which I believe broadcasts on Armed Forces Radio, and ask him to help in the recruitment of some of the following:

In an interview, Douglas J. Feith, the under secretary of defense for policy, said that discussions had begun on a program to seek commitments from bankers, lawyers, doctors, engineers, electricians, plumbers and solid-waste disposal experts to deploy to conflict zones for months at a time on reconstruction assignments, to relieve pressure on the military.

I bet limpballs, hannity, o'really, britt, savage weenie and the rest of the patriots would drive Hum-Vee's or anything else required if our country needed their service. After all, they're all experts at solid-waste disposal.

[teknomanzer]

69. Acutally they just create solid waste...

and no one has disposed of it yet.

[Gormy Cuss]

132. There is the stench of an unclean stable in that statement.

I'll bet Feith is talking about the already allocated consultant contracts for infrastructure restoration when he mentions bankers, lawyers, doctors, and engineers. The other tradesmen will work there under the Halliburton umbrella. Nowhere in Feith's statement is a suggestion that all these skilled people will go to Iraqnam on a military pay scale.
If anyone heard the whole interview and can say that he did say this these folk would work at military pay scales, please correct me. I'd rather be wrong about this than chalk it up to one more Rovian lie.

[mcscajun]

26. This is the same question I was asking in the weeks after 9/11

No, I was never a Bush supporter...Never. Yet I was raised on historical movies, Capra films, historical novels and documentaries; I expected that if America was attacked, we would unite behind our military and yes, share the sacrifice.

I waited for a call that never came...from a President who had and indeed still has NO COMPREHENSION WHATSOEVER OF HOW TO TRULY LEAD A NATION.

I expected sacrifices...I expected AT LEAST, a call to make this country energy-independent. Nope...we can't do that...BushCo is in the pockets...the very deep, dark pockets, of the oil cartel.

It's little wonder our military is feeling increasingly distant from the rest of us. Whose fault? Bush's fault.

[goforit]

32. It's evident that they #1 priority is to raid American blind.

No questions asked.

[wildwww2]

29. This is not a war. But a war crime. And I as a veteran and an

American will not support it. In a free country it should be my right to oppose this abortion of a war crime. And anyone who does not like it. Can get over it. I am sorry that the troops think they have to follow the criminal leadership. That the supreme court and voting fraud has wrought them.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[H5N1]

42. That is a great quote: "This is not a war. But a war crime."

[ninkasi]

64. You are so right...

This is a war crime, and we have become the most cruel and brazen of criminals under our so-called president's dictatorship.

I feel like apologizing to the rest of the world for what we have let our country become, and the pain and suffering, the death and torture, that we have brought to people who were never a threat to us, and didn't attack us.

This will go down in history as the most depraved, evil, corrupt regime to ever sully America's history.

[Gregorian]

110. We're not at war.

Very well stated. My sentiments all along. Unfortunately, being a government employee means not being able to say no.

[calimary]

113. Should be a bumper sticker, wildwww2. This is not a war, but a war CRIME.

Like it! Well said! And thank you for your service, by the way.

[Tahkcalb]

30. Is it time to "Americanize the War" yet?

:sarcasm:

[osaMABUSh]

36. I'd like to see "What have you really done for a US soldier?"

as a bumper sticker to counteract those ubiquitous (and useless) yellow ribbons. Heck, I even saw a yellow ribbon with "Pittsburgh Steelers" on it - WTF? They kinda have the value of those knock-off 'live strong' bracelets. You know, like the blue ones that say 'volleyball' or some other useless 'cause'.

[stanwyck]

55. My liberal friends

are the ones who have continually "supported" my son during his previous tour in Iraq and his current one. They send him packages and letters. Our more conservative friends and family members seem to have forgotten about him...and the war. You can't imagine how grateful we are that people send my son letters, books, magazines, and photographs. We really know who our friends are, now. They're the ones who don't just slap a decal on their car and then blithely drive away.

[Burried News]

65. Our more conservative friends and family members seem to have forgotten

Same here - they didn't even ask about them till I gave them the evil eye and a snide comment to one of them. Not a card, not a package, not an email - nothing.

I live in a Bush/Cheney neighborhood and bring the war up whenever I can. For those with kids I mention how many years into the future this could go on and that we will need a draft. Most can do the arithmetic.

They say payback is a bitch - nope it's a bastard and I are one.

[calimary]

114. I hope he comes home, SOON! Tired but relieved, and uninjured.

n/t

[MADem]

120. I tell the GOP magnet displaying, flag waving jerks

...to send a soldier one of those goofy things you see on late night TV, that go around the neck to cool you off, if they REALLY want to support the troops. They work really well in arid environments like Iraq. They're like a portable swamp cooler. Handy when it's 120 degrees F....

[joneschick]

37. what factories in your hometown have gone into wartime production

for anything needed to support the military? Ask anyone from WWII era that lived in a city.....it was damned noisy. Every factory line that could be converted to military production was converted. People picked up scrap metal to be used, many things were rationed for the good of the troops. There was work to be done that did rally the people. Is that all Halliburton now? OUr industrial cities are dying and none of those empty factories and innumerable unemployed factory workers can help? What's wrong with this picture?

[leesa]

40. There were two companies that made armour for Humvees that WANTED

too, but the orders never came from the Pentagon. One went out of business, I think.

[kath]

74. Yep, there are very few factories left in this country - most of the

manufacturing jobs have gone overseas (unless you count cooking a burger, slapping it onto a bun and adding condiments as a manufacturing job, which is what the Bushistas want to do). :-(

[leesa]

38. They were told to go shopping. What do you expect? Besides, Bush

said the war was over 2 years ago.

[Cha]

41. That's right and I'm glad

they finally noticed.

It's a schizoid nation.

Do ya think the military speaking out on this will change anything?

Will we be asked to sacrifice for bush's lies along with the military?

[bassman79]

44. We've sacrificied our civil liberties, isn't that enough!

[calimary]

116. Welcome to DU!

That IS a huge sacrifice that we Good Guys are making every day - prisoners of a fascist, greedy, stingey, murderous, lying, cheating, thieving, ANTI-AMERICAN regime.

[alfredo]

45. We need to organize an effort for the soldiers. Sure ending the war

is the best we can do, but until then we need to do something for our brothers and sisters.

Any ideas?

[Zorra]

52. A nationwide general strike until our fascist leaders agree to bring the

troops home.

[alfredo]

56. That's well and good for the future, but we need to get middle

America involved in the plight of the soldier now. We need them to do more than pay lip service. If the average American has to sacrifice, they might get a clue.

[lyonn]

76. We could start by honoring those coming home

in caskets and taking better care of those coming home needing special care. Congress can barely spare a dime for the injured it appears. When I think about those coming home with flags over them and even the parents cannot meet the plane my mind gets fuzzy. The public seems to agree with our great leader that we don't need to be concerned about this loss!? This is one sick country!!

[alfredo]

101. But what personal sacrifices can we make for the soldiers?

What can we do as citizens for those soldiers and their families who are trapped in bush's war.

[calimary]

125. Try the Military Families Speak Out website

I think it's www.mfso.org but I could be wrong - and see what they're saying. Frequently they have charity and care-package drives asking for help for the troops.

[bassman79]

57. Expose 9/11

It's the best way to end the war and set things right in this country. It would be a massive watershed moment for the anti-war movement, not to mention it's our only shot.

[agincourt]

46. I'm going to say this again,

if 80% of the troops voted for Bush what the fuck did they expect?
Bush is a political operative not a wartime president, some get tax cuts,some get screwed. If you are in the military you get screwed with Bush and belligerent bunch of ditto monkeys in pigboat ads don't change that. Did they actually think the Iraq war was more than a political op and a haliburton looting? Why these guys can't see the enemy is beyond me. Bush is not FDR for crying out loud if anything he is the antithesis.

[bassman79]

53. It's not totally their fault

No one knew the full extent of the horrors Bush had planned for us in 2000. Now if they voted to re-elect him, yeah, it's kind of hard to feel sorry for them.

But don't forget, once these guys get back from the murder's playground 99% will begin a carreer as your local policeman.

[agincourt]

72. I hope they wise up,

when they get away from a non-military media.

[Carni]

97. A LOT of us knew of the horrors of bush in 1999

And we screamed our heads off about it but no one would listen.
We were called conspiracy theorists and Christian bashers.
Nothing he has done has surprised me in the least.

[w8liftinglady]

54. where did they get that number?

My kid didn't vote for him,and I can't believe his friends did,either.My Dad-who is a veteran,swore off repubs when Bush ran-He even acknowledged that Bush has sold us out.My male patients,most of the WW2 and korea vets,are overwhelmingly against Bush-they think he is a coward and a liar.I'm not saying no soldiers voted for Bush-But I have a hard time believing it's 80%(just my opinion)

[agincourt]

71. It was CNN where I had heard it,

80% of the troops IN Iraq had voted for ratshit. If this is a bullshit figure, please correct me , I'd sleep much better at night.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

47. Limbaugh is sacrificing several million liver cells a day

popping one oxycontin after another in support of our troops.

[Zorra]

48. I'm not asking anyone to sacrifice. Come on home and I'll buy you a

beer, and we'll discuss how we can best get rid of the asshole chickenhawk republicans that lied y'all into this war.

[bassman79]

51. Nice one.

[StaggerLee]

58. I second the offer of a beer and conversation

They've obviously been listening to the wrong people.

Maybe it's all that Rush Limbaugh they've been getting indoctrinated with from Armed Forces Radio.

Duers can enlighten them, they just need to listen.

Maybe we need the DU activist corps to write a ton of letters to Star & Stripes??

sL-
USN 1985-1990

[spooked]

61. Who do they think is paying the $300 Billion?

That money comes from TAXES off of OUR hard-earned money. All of the parents and students who can't afford college anymore due to cuts in federal grants and loans are making a HUGE SACRIFICE.

[Sparkly]

67. Those are NOT paying for the war.

Our taxes are not paying for current expenditures. The result is the rising federal debt and the country being sold out to other nations.

That's because BushCo has never balanced the budget -- they've been giving windfalls to the extremely wealthy and to corporations through tax cuts, deregulations, and other means (such as Halliburton's "bonus").

The cuts to state colleges and student aid are a result of THAT. The economy has stimulus to the point of life support in low interest rates and tax cuts. But there's no *investment* in anything that will actually expand and build up a solid middle class, which is where it has to start -- something Clinton understood and explained very well. Urban renewal, mental healthcare, job training, incentives for business, veterans' services, head start, "midnight basketball," whatever -- BushCo wants no part of it. Ken Lay needs a new pair of shoes.

As for the soldiers, they DO struggle to buy gas, heat homes, and feed their families -- especially given the circumstances many are facing now.

[spooked]

68. Yes, I understand that military families are sacrificing THE MOST

It makes me sick that anyone has to for this phony war.


My biggest sacrifice is the loss of the pride I used to feel in the American Flag, and in being an American.

[Skwmom]

93. We're borrowing the money to pay for this war.

It's our children and grandchildren who will pay for this war.
As far as college goes, many soldiers go into the military in order to pay for their college so they are making a HUGE SACRIFICE in order to pay for their schooling.

On edit: Do you really think they needed a war to cut student loans and grants?

[Sparkly]

66. They are right.

BushCo has saddled the US with enormous expenses and commitment in Iraq without ANY counterbalance here at home to pay for it, without the diplomacy and strategy required to solve it, without adequate support from the government.

Their only references to the war are to cover their asses, make excuses, pretend it's not a quagmire, or bang the drum in a fake show of "strength" for political points, period.

[buckfush_in_2004]

77. Quagmire photos. Gruesome!!!!

Horrendous waste of lives.

This should make you anti-war. If not you are a sicky or maybe just a mainstream Republican.

[wli]

75. impeach Bush, Cheney, and Rummy, then to the Hague with them!

[SoCalDem]

78. The average 'Murkin does not have to sacrifice

because we have "volunteers" doing our dirty work.. That's why "modern" wars are so "easy" to start..

When there's a draft, the net gets cast WIDE, and kids who artists, musicians, writers, poets, etc..and the kids of the just slightly upper middle class get caught in that net as well..

the ones who are truly "safe" are the upper-crusties who are not only rich, but well-connected..

THAT's when the shit hits the fan..


as long as we have "war-lovers". macho-men, soldiers of fortune, and poor folks just trying to get an education or health care for their kids, the general public does not sacrifice.

When a soldier dies or is maimed, the general public can just shrug and say.. "Well they KNEW the risks when they signed up"..

[Voltaire99]

79. Not so fast, Mr. We're The Only Ones Sacrificing

"Nobody in America is asked to sacrifice, except us," said one officer just back from a yearlong tour in Iraq. . .

Oh, really?

Let's count the ways, shall we, buddy?

I'm running errands for my elderly frightened neighbor in the absence of her son who was shanghaied by the National Guard years after completing his contract and then whisked off to Iraq to drive unarmored trucks; so I'm sacrificing my time.

I'm disgusted by my lying corrupt government; so I'm sacrificing my faith in lawful rule.

I'm aghast at the torture and murder of innocents by your colleagues in uniform; so I'm sacrificing my peace of mind.

I'm watching my freedoms at home vanish; so I'm sacrificing my birthright.

I'm living in post-democratic America, where uni-party rules mocks the vanished ideal of political pluralism; so I'm sacrificing hope in the future.

I'm watching billions pour down the pisshole in Iraq; so I'm sacrificing the likelihood of an economically fit nation.

And I'm listening to you bellyache, pal, instead of hearing you come clean on illegally invading a sovereign country for no damn good reason at all. Yeah, you've sacrificed. Check it: there's a lot of it going around.

[IndianaGreen]

80. No one put a gun to their heads and told them to go to Iraq

As a matter of fact, I clearly recall how many of our troops were chomping at the bit just prior to March 2003. You got the war you wanted, now if you don't like it, why don't you pray to Jesus or better still, walk into your COs office and tell him/her that you are gay and want to go home.

You are not in Iraq defending my freedoms back here! My freedoms are already in the shit can thanks to PATRIOT.

[Skwmom]

92. If I recall

many Americans were gung ho on the war in March 2003. Plus if I recall, after 9-11 many Americans (including many who post on DU) were rallying behind Bush.

[calimary]

118. Happy to report that I am not one of those.

Many of us were disgusted by bush after 9/11, when he ran all over the Sun Belt looking for a place to hide, when he took all week to go to NYC to view the damage, and when he made his little speech on the rubble pile, that contained NOTHING in it about steering this country on a new course - AWAY from our addiction to fossil fuels so we wouldn't have to bother with any involvement in the Middle East EVER AGAIN. He had the chance, on that Friday after September 11th, to lead - REALLY lead. It would have been the same thing as "only Nixon could go to China." He of all people could have weaned us off of oil. It would have been his JFK moment, just as JFK moved us as a nation to reach for the moon. bush could have done the same thing with reaching for energy independence. And he WOULD have had the country behind him because no one would have dared to question that, either. But no, we were simply told to go shopping. I was disgusted. I wanted to wait to hear what he said. I heard. I was then MORE disgusted.

But remember, souls CAN be saved. Most, if not all, of us here, are of the same mind now - against the war, realizing clearly what it is - a big, fat, mortal sin of a LIE. Those of us who didn't see this back then, I'd venture to guess, DO see it now.

[FlaGranny]

143. Sure, because they were showing ALL the gung ho

soldiers on TV. I can't imagine them showing us all the NON-gung ho soldiers though, can you?

[FreeStateDemocrat]

86. Reenlistments are up, many must like that style of life it;s their choice.

Fool me once, but if they decide to volunteer during the repuke’s "Holy Crusades" and you take the money then you have to accept the risks that obviously go with the job. I am a lot less sympathetic since seeing the large numbers that are re-enlisting and asking for more (including money). I believe most are doing it based on a purely economical decision if they could make more money and benefits in the private sector they wouldn’t choose to be in the military.

[Skwmom]

91. Well many soldiers can make a lot more money in the private sector.

They could go to Iraq as contractors and make a lot more money (or work for a defense contractor in the states). Furthermore, soldiers are faced with a forced reenlistment (with no bonus) or signing up for reenlistment and receiving a bonus. That's what most people would call a no brainer.

[Roland99]

87. A friend of mine's fiance just returned from Afghanistan this weekend

I told her to plan on having an immense amount of patience with him and don't expect him to fit back into daily life for some time. (He's been in Afghanistan for a year.)

He's already told her much the same and has said he doesn't want to talk about what he's experienced over there (other than to tell her he's been involved in chasing down some "bad guys".) I told her to even watch his driving as going from driving a military vehicle for a year while armed to the gills is a lot different from driving the typical car to the grocery store.

[Seabiscuit]

89. They're asking the wrong questions, but at least it's a start.

[Love Bug]

90. I don't think billions of dollars added to our deficit is

"so little sacrifice," but I get their point and agree. Unless you have someone over there, the average person can pretty much go on with their life and not even think about Iraq.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

98. just a pic

[SlavesandBulldozers]

99. just a pic

[Gregorian]

111. The American people need veto power.

We need to be able to stand down our government when it goes the wrong way. We need to be able to say NO. We need the last word. Not some politician.


edit- Because this isn't a war. I tried to say no by marching in the streets. But that doesn't hold water, legally. The people have the power, but it seems to be held in the right to bear arms. Well a lot of good that is. When you bear arms, it's already too late.

[Jade Fox]

119. If Bushco raises taxes or instigates a draft, they will be toast.....

and they know it. Americans only support the war in Iraq to the extent
that minimal sacrifices are made for it by the populace as a whole, and
even that support is eroding fast.

The Neocons and their supporters are mostly all chickenhawks at heart
who want feel-good patriotism and no cost to themselves.

[deadparrot]

121. Tax increases? RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!

Those poor men and women. Somehow I don't think they're getting the facts while they're overseas.

[Imagevision]

133. Hey! - just don't forget the DSM and Rovegate - lunatics in charge

at the White House!!!!

[wookie294]

134. kick

Love this article. It's great ammunition against the lunatic Republican FREAK show in America.

[enough]

138. kick

[Supersedeas]

139. no serious talk of a draft....but re-enlistments are up (allegedly)

[Bragi]

141. The best army we can buy

Good comment piece on this subject in today's NYT:

"The implications are deeply unsettling: history's most potent military force can now be put into the field by a society that scarcely breaks a sweat when it does so. We can now wage war while putting at risk very few of our sons and daughters, none of whom is obliged to serve. Modern warfare lays no significant burdens on the larger body of citizens in whose name war is being waged."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/25/opinion/25kennedy.html