Pope asks God to stay hand of "assassins"

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L24304511.htm

LES COMBES, Italy, July 24 (Reuters) - Pope Benedict on Sunday condemned violence in Egypt, Iraq, Turkey and Britain and asked God to stay the hand of terrorists.

"While we entrust to God's goodness ... the victims of these acts that offend God and man, we call on the Omnipotent to stay the hands of assassins who, driven on by fanaticism and hate, have committed these things," the Pope said in his Sunday address to pilgrims at his summer holiday retreat in the Alps.

Benedict has repeatedly condemned terrorism since the July 7 suicide bomb attacks in London, which killed at least 52 people and injured 700.

"Again, in these days of serenity and rest, I am overcome by the tragic news of the abominable terrorist attacks that cause death, destruction and suffering in countries including Egypt, Turkey, Iraq and Britain," he said to a crowd of hundreds.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. He should recite the same prayer for the hands of clerical pedophiles.

[powwowdancer]

17. darn... you beat me to it.

I was going to say, "Who's gonna pray for God to stay the hands of the church," but I like yours better. "What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin?" Indeed. Col. Kurtz was onto something.

:dem:
powwowdancer out

[Sean Reynolds]

18. I'm sure he has.

[4_Legs_Good]

23. You guys crack me up every time you come up with one of those witty

comments! Like every single time anything relating to the Catholic church is mentioned.

It's just SOOOOOOO Funny!!! Thank you so much for your sizzling wit!!!

Religious intolerance is such wonderful fun!!!

david

[arwalden]

41. So Being Critical Of Religion's Faults Is Now The Same As "Intolerance"?

Get a grip!

[4_Legs_Good]

65. When they have nothing to do with the issue at hand - yes!

It's plain bigotry at worst, intolerance at best. The pope said he hopes people that blow stuff up will change their minds. There's nothing wrong with that. It has NOTHING to do with the terrors of pedophilia which have destroyed the lives of many people. Had he said "I love kids and I think they should trust every priest they meet, and I pray that God will restore their faith in the clergy." then these comments would be perfectly valid.

Here they are not.

david

[arwalden]

67. The Pope Is Not Immune From Criticism Or Scorn... EVER!

Learn to cope.

[4_Legs_Good]

85. Will do!

Thanks for the insightful advice

:boggle:

david

[arwalden]

108. Whoo hoo!

:bounce:

[converted_democrat]

73. Get a grip.........

It was a joke, and it was funny. Stop with your intolerance crap, this isn't what this is, and you know it. Stop making the Catholic church "the victim" here, because clearly they are not. If the church had not screwed up on sooooo many different occasions, no one would be poking fun. But they did, so get over it. No one here is persecuting you, or the church. If you wanna get pissed at someone, how about the people responsible for creating the stain on the church to begin with?

[AngryOldDem]

91. Then please explain...

...to all us obviously ignorant and backward folk out here in the hinterlands, the connection between the Pope condemning terrorism and clerical pedophilia.

There is no connection; ergo, whatever point that was trying to be made by bringing it up is irrelevant. But, my mind is open enough to read any explanations of how the two are linked. And while you're at it, please cite an example of ANY perfect societal institution.

And I guess I don't have much of a sense of humor, either...again, it must be that intellectual deficit I have.

[mondo joe]

95. Here's a connection: He ought to be praying to god to stop his priests

from hurting children. You know - the take the log from your own eye thing?

[4_Legs_Good]

101. But you can concentrate on more than one thing at a time

and he should be doing MUCH MORE than praying for the priests to keep the hands off the damned kids. He should be locking them up in jail for all time - maybe pulling out some of that old school Inquisition action on them.

Anyway, I guess the "stay the hands" comment did leave itself open for a joke, though I don't think it's funny.

I can't believe I'm defending Ratzinger.

david

[VegasWolf]

107. LOL!! He should ask god to stay the penises of wayward priests!nt

[Rich Hunt]

113. ummmm

How do you know he isn't?

Do you have some inside information that we don't?

[converted_democrat]

97. I never claimed that there was a connection, you did.............n/t

[mondo joe]

75. Wonder how you'd feel if you learned the GOP had been covering up

decades of child molestation by its members. What topics could they discuss that would make that reference off limits?

[4_Legs_Good]

87. Well, when the GOP did things poorly, I would criticize them for

the poor things they did. When they did good things I would praise them.

Kinda neat the way that works. As it is, I can't think of anything good the GOP has done in the past 20 years or so, so they don't get much praise. And as horrible as molestation is (and trust me, it's horrible) - I still rank slaughter of 100,000 Iraqis, 3,000 Panamanians, etc. as worse, and the GOP has been covering that up for over a decade.

david

[mondo joe]

90. I see. So you support Bush's Culture of Life?

Is a Culture of Life a bad thing?

[4_Legs_Good]

99. Hmmmm... Well, I'd say I support *a* culture of life, but not Bush's

"Culture of Life" nor JPII's "Culture of Life" - at least not in what it's become - trying to force one group's fundamentalist ideals onto everyone.

So when George Jr. talks about a "culture of life" he's doing 2 things:

1. He's passing a code-word to conservative Catholics that he's on board with their pro-life "mission"
2. He's saying he wants to restrict women's rights to choose their own moral beliefs.

If he meant that he was interested in reminding Americans that we should respect all life - from old growth trees, to the 7th Generation humans, to cows, to chickens, to Iraqis, then Yeah, I could get behind it.

But I guess, I have to admit that I also don't trust a word the guy says, and I suppose I can understand why some people would think the same of Ratzinger. Personally I can't stand Ratzinger and I'm disgusted that he's the pope, but I still think that this IMMEDIATE descent into molestation talk that happens EVERY TIME anything Catholic is mentioned is rediculous. I mean he could save 15 screaming elderly people from a blazing fire and people would ream him for Cardinal Law's (and many others) coverup.

I will say that there have been a couple things that George Jr. has done that I actually did applaud him for. Almost always they turned out to be empty promises, but for a brief moment I did say "Finally you do SOMETHING right!" - always to be proven wrong.

But GOPers who've stood up to Bush, and particularly Jeffords get my highest praise!

david

[mondo joe]

106. Well there you go - just as you mistrust Bush and what HE means

when he talks about these things, so do many about the Pope.

His own crimes are so many and so deeply felt that for many of us his every act and statement are tainted by them.

[RPM]

47. don't confuse religious intolerance with intolerance of criminal groups

as long as they are covering for the priests, the chain of command, all the way to the pope, is for all intents and purposes a criminal organization.

[mondo joe]

70. Is it Intolerance when we criiticize Bush or Rove?

Why do you think some political figures are immune?

[progressivebydesign]

78. So we should be tolerant of institutional pedophelia? yeah right n/t

[Zhade]

109. It's not "religious intolerance".

It's intolerance of someone who covered up child rape.

Don't like it being brought up? With all due respect, too damn bad. I'm thinking of all the kids his policy hurt, not the oversensitivity of some who don't like uncomfortable facts coming up when the pope is discussed.

[Emendator]

42. Get off it

and just accept and appreciate a statement of sympathy for what it is. Some people act like that is the worst scandal to have ever afflicted humanity. What do you do to make the world a better place? Try looking in the mirror.

[BrklynLiberal]

50. For the victims of the church, it IS the worst tragedy. If the church

were not such huge hypocrites and liars about it in addition, it would not be the focus of so much negative attention.
One should not go around preaching against and condemning the very things that you yourself are guilty of doing, and then trying to cover up.

Here's your mirror.

[DemBones DemBones]

51. Well said! The hostility toward anything said by or about

the pope (any pope!), or anything connected with Catholicism, really gets very. very old.

[QC]

52. The word "pope" is like a ringing bell to Pavlov's dog.

I'm not Catholic and don't like Benedict much, but there's something really freeperish about threads like this one.

[DemBones DemBones]

56. Exactly, it's freeperish behavior. nt

[mondo joe]

76. The automatic defense is the Pavllovian response.

On DU we can criticize politicians, journalists, pundits, private individuals with political leanings, evangelical groups and more without a problem.

But as soon as the political figure is in Catholic leadership they become special, and criticism of their political or criminal actions becomes religious intolerance.

[QC]

79. When criticism is kneejerk, when one refuses to give credit where it's due

and drags in off-topic issues in order to score easy points, which is what happens here about 90% of the time, it's reminiscent of how freepers were acting back during the Clinton years. Like I said, I'm not Catholic and certainly not a fan of Ratzinger, but I prefer thought over slogans and impotent, sputtering rage.

Look elsewhere in this forum and you will even see Benedict catching hell for refusing to condemn Islam for terrorism. A few months back JPII was condemned for saying--clutch the pearls!--that Westerners were too materialistic and should spend more time with their families, a sentiment that would have been welcome coming from, say, the Dalai Lama or the Grand Mufti of Outer Franistan, but was automatically bullshit because it came from the Pope.

[mondo joe]

80. I don't see why this criticism is kneejerk or why humor is ignored.

And when I start seeing the "clutch the pearls" argument applied more broadly I'll believe in its sincerity. As is, it is almost only applied to the Pope. You'd have to look long and hard to find a "clutch the pearls" stance on Jerry Falwell or GW Bush.

[QC]

81. So you think the Pope should encourage terrorists? Should he

condemn all Muslims for the acts of extremists? Should Americans buy more and spend less time with their families?

When one cannot give credit when someone, even an opponent, is right, then yes, we have entered the realm of the kneejerk. If people get off on that, then far be it from me to deny them their pleasures, but I cannot take the "arguments" of such people seriously.

[mondo joe]

86. Those are the alternatives? This or support terrorists? Talk about

kneejerk.

How about the Pope get his own House in order and make some statements about how to prevent Terrorism from starting?

How about cutting down on his own hypocrisy?

Now for the sake of consistency I'll expect you to be out there defending Jerry Falwell and George Bush and finding their praiseworthy comments.

[QC]

88. If Bush or Falwell accidentally say something that is manifestly true,

then I will admit its truth. Otherwise I am letting them do my thinking for me. If it's raining outside, and Falwell says, "It's raining outside," are you going to insist that, despite the fact that drops of water are falling out of the sky, it is not raining? That's what we're talking about here.

How about the Pope get his own House in order and make some statements about how to prevent Terrorism from starting?

He strongly condemned the Iraq War, and war in general, and yet people here still jump up and scream, "Yeah, but when is he going to speak out against the war?" so why on earth do you think it would make any difference? For what it's worth, the previous pope had plenty to say about social justice, more than our party leadership, but that never counted for anything here.

[mondo joe]

89. Don't confuse pointing out hypocrisy with kneejerk disagreement.

Or are you out there praising Bush for talking about a "Culture of Life"?

[QC]

96. Don't confuse sloganeering and straw men with argument. n/t

[Bo]

102. pedophile priests should be inquisitionized

anyway

[barb162]

61. amen

[AngryOldDem]

94. And I stand by my frequent observation...

...that if the Vatican would remain silent on these events, some here would be heaping criticism and insults against the Pope and the Church for THAT.

They can deny it all they want...it is intolerance.

[Psephos]

98. So true.... n/t

[TankLV]

100. But the "church" HAS remained silent on the issue of ITS priests abusing

children - woefully SILENT!

And it's policy is that if it sweeps it under the rug, and disconnects every and anything associated with its wealth from justifieably being touched by legitimate claims against it by hiding that wealth behind legalisms that maybe it will just "go away", and finally if it sets up a LOBBYING organization to lobby GOVERNMENTS to support its views, then YES I'd say we have some pretty basic and BIG beefs with this horrendous stance!

But YOU apologists are always out in force, defending the crap out of - well - CRAP!

[mondo joe]

72. Of course covering up sexual molestation of kids is not a big deal

to some. But to others it is a pretty big deal.

So when I look into the mirror instead of criticizing, do I have to do the same about Bush, Rove, Falwell, Novak and Santorum - or only Catholic figureheads?

[Catt03]

119. It is the worst scandle to afflict modern civilization

Where have you been?

[SquireJons]

125. Singling out one group does not make the world a better place.

It's mud slinging and you know it. American military forces have caused more deaths in Iraq, most of them innocent civilians, than all of the Middle Eastern despots and insurgents ("freedom fighters?") combined. Now that he is Pope, where is his vocal condemnation of these crimes?

I'm waiting...

Maybe I'll just hold my breath...

[SquireJons]

126. A step in the right direction...

Yesterday, the Vatican issued a remarkable statement regarding Israel's actions in the conflict with the Palestinians.

In a 1,300-word communique, the Vatican said: "It has not always been possible to follow every attack against Israel with a public declaration of condemnation."

It said one reason for this was that "the attacks on Israel were sometimes followed by immediate Israeli reactions not always compatible with the norms of international law ... It would thus be impossible to condemn the terrorist operations and pass over the Israeli retaliation in silence".

While I am gratified with the truth of the statement, I wonder as to it's motivation. Is it the beginning of a stance against the murder of civilians by government forces everywhere, of simply an opportunity to criticize and alienate Jews? Only time will tell.

[Gato Moteado]

2. ok, right on popey..........

....please be consistent and condemn the bushco assassins and terrorists, too.

[Todd B]

10. Exactly

Why doesn't he stay consistant and condemn the terrorism and violence being carried out against the Iraqi and Afghani people?

I mean, you could certainly criticize Pope John Paul for some of his conservative leanings, but at least he was consistant at bring peace to the ENTIRE world and not just a select bunch.

[powwowdancer]

21. but then he'd have to...

condemn the Nazis he helped out at the flak gun emplacement for all their crimes, which means, his crimes, and... ah, forget it.

:shrug:
powwowdancer out

[NYC Liberal]

66. He was very much opposed to BushCo's little adventure in Iraq

"There were not sufficient reasons to unleash a war against Iraq. To say nothing of the fact that, given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a 'just war'."

[Warren Stupidity]

3. I just heard from god

she says she is all over it, didn't know there was a problem till benedict spoke up, but its all good now. She's got our back.

[GoSolar]

83. LOL!

:D

[Schema Thing]

4. From your pointy hat to God's ears, brutha self-important man!

[oneighty]

5. This Pope is very brave.

If the killings and hate and bad people do not stop being bad people and killing and hating then God does not hear, does not care or does not exist?

Or will it be a simple "Test of faith"?

180

[okieinpain]

14. well see after the next bombing he will say that the people that

died did not have faith. see he will never be wrong or questionable.

[Dr.Phool]

6. Evil

An omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (all knowing) being who would allow this type of thing to happen, and do nothing to stop it, is pure evil and not deserving of worship.

You may now light your flamethrowers!

[truth2power]

69. I said the same thing to a friend yesterday.

Told her there couldn't possibly be a god to let all this shit happen.

No flamethrower here.

[NYC]

117. Upton Sinclair said

God cannot be both omnipotent and beneficent.

[goclark]

7. Pope Bush needs to look in the mirror at the Boys

who have no life because of the abuse of his Buddie Priests.

I knew they were going to "select" him.

They must have installed DIEBOLD in the Vatican.

[Trevelyan]

8. There is a very good article on the plans to begin the nuclear attack on

Iran and some things we might help to stop it.

Veterans for Peace also has a petition to Impeach with a 6 page PDF download which is the best summation of Bush/Cheney War Crimes along with links and Laws broken.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/impeachment/petition2.htm

Thank You!for signing our petition to impeach George W. Bush for crimes committed in the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

I want my representative in the U.S. House of Representatives to vote to impeach President Bush for the high crimes described in the case for impeachment made by Veterans For Peace, and have the case prosecuted and tried in the U.S. Senate. Signatures on this petition will be delivered to the Chair of the House Judiciary Committee and to the ranking Democrat on the Committee. - THAT WOULD BE REP. CONYERS. Please visit his blogsite day after Downing Street Memo Parties - http://www.conyersblog.us/

[Massachusetts]

9. "Pope asks God to stay hand of "assassins""

Massachusetts asks Pope to ask God to make his lottery picks hit.

No word back yet from Pope or God.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

11. Doesn't appear to remember what The Inquisition did in its day

Small minds, short memories, broken mirrors... :cry:

[dArKeR]

12. Pope Tells Journalists To Search For 'Truth'

Pope Tells Journalists To Search For 'Truth'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/04/23/AR2005042301372.html?nav=rss_world/europe

The Vatican has sought the intervention of the U.S. State Department to declare Pope Benedict XVI immune from a sexual abuse lawsuit filed here, according to court documents.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3201751

Vatican said Monday there was no investigation under way of allegations that the Mexican founder of a conservative religious order sexually abused seminarians
http://www.winktv.com/x466.xml?URL=http://localhost/APWIREFEED/d8a8vi600.xml

Vatican Reportedly Clears Priest
Vaca, a former priest, is one of at least eight men in Mexico and the United States who have accused the Rev. Marcial Maciel Degollado of molesting them when they were teenage seminary students in the 1940s, '50s and '60s.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/22/AR2005052200966.html?nav=rss_world/europe

Despite the horrific drumbeat of child molestation revelations, however, sensible Catholics hoping for a more transparent and less sexually repressed church shouldn't hold their breath. The new pope is not only a longtime leader of vicious church attacks on "evil" gays, he also has shamefully blamed the molestation scandal on the media.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/thenation/20050524/cm_thenation/20050606scheer0524_1

Vatican Accused of Child Molestation Cover-Up
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/098516.htm

Survivors Network says the overwhelming majority of its members have never sued and are too traumatized to do so. They say they adopted their tactics after bishops promised for years to take action against guilty clergy, then never did.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7463011/page/2

Pope's Nazi past
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7576505 /

[randr]

13. I quess the headlines on the next terror attack will read

God Ignores Pope.

[goforit]

15. I haven't heard him condem the Iraq war either.

[QC]

20. Hmmm. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention.

On one occasion before the war, he was asked whether it would be just. "Certainly not," he said, and explained that the situation led him to conclude that "the damage would be greater than the values one hopes to save."

“All I can do is invite you to read the Catechism, and the conclusion seems obvious to me…” The conclusion is one he gave many times: "the concept of preventive war does not appear in the Catechism of the Catholic Church."...

"There were not sufficient reasons to unleash a war against Iraq. To say nothing of the fact that, given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a 'just war'."

http://www.catholicpeacefellowship.org/nextpage.asp?m=2252

[NNN0LHI]

22. That is from over 2 years ago. Have anything more recent?

I Googled but couldn't find anything.

Don

[CBHagman]

30. So far, just a general reference to continued criticism of the war.

I don't have a full-length quote, just the assessment of an article published in the Houston Catholic Worker, which I'll quote from below:

http://www.cjd.org/paper/benedict.html

"Even after the war, Cardinal Ratzinger did not cease criticism of U.S. violence and imperialism: 'it was right to resist the war and its threats of destruction...It should never be the responsibility of just one nation to make decisions for the world.'"

I've poked around a bit and not found a clear, definite reference to other statements, but perhaps I don't know just how to narrow the search. :shrug:

[Emendator]

43. Good post.

That's more than Kerry and the majority of DC Dems can claim.

[TankLV]

103. Nice try - wrong pope.

We are talking about the current former NAZI pope here.

[QC]

104. Nice try, but you're wrong.

Read the link. It's talking about the current pope.

[raysr]

16. Ha Ha LMAO

Fuckin right, "hey God stay the hand of the republicans"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. It's about time.

I was wondering when he'd get around to that.

[4_Legs_Good]

24. We ask His Help and His Blessing, but know that here on earth God's work

must truly be our own.

J.F. Kennedy, January 20, 1961.

[Chicago Democrat]

25. This Pope is an IDIOT!

(groan)

[0007]

27. ...make that government stamped bona fide idiot

[Domitan]

26. Fine

so now for every assassin's hands that succeeds after the Pope made this prayer is an indication of the Pope's failure. So be it!

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

28. Pope asks God to stay hand of assassins, beginning with THIS man:

http://icasualties.org/oif/

Latest Coalition Fatality: Jul 23, 2005

TOTAL COALITION CASUALTIES: 1969

TOTAL US CASUALTIES: 1775

TOTAL US WOUNDED: 13,559

[pinkpops]

34. Give the mike to the fat lady, maybe she'll sing.

[DanCa]

29. I see nothing wrong with what he said

Infact hopefully he'll condemn all acts of violence be it, war, guns , and the death penality. I will give credit were credit is due.

[4_Legs_Good]

31. Thanks.

I'm no fan of Ratzinger and he's turned me into a non-practicing Catholic (along with the Cardinals who elected him), but credit where it's due is a good philosophy.

As you say, hopefully he'll be vocal on the rest of the important issues as well.

david

[pinkpops]

33. I agree with you guys, but, really, is he talking to God or man when

he says stuff like that? If he's talking to God he doesn't need to tell the world about it. Otherwise God might think the Pope is some kind of politician. Or by praying out loud is he trying to get others to pray with him, as if God is taking a poll or something.

In summary -
How about deeds, not words?

[DanCa]

37. I am not kreskin :D)

So I can't answer. I don't know what goes thru the hearts or heads of men or women. Personally I am a practicing episcopal now and never belived that the pope was sucessor to peter. No offense to the catholics on this page.
Oh I also think that your final statement is correct . Deeds and not words brilliant. Have fun and keep cool. It's a beast today.

[DanCa]

35. Np

There are three issues I strongly disagree with the church on, and in fact was excummunicated, but I will give credit where credit is due. If you want to talk pm me. Ill try not to cheap shot.

[pinkpops]

32. God sees all, knows all, and does what he pleases.

Him also bless whomever him wants to bless.

[sonicx]

36. If god wanted to do this, he would have already...

guess he's not home (or doesn't exist at all).

[SquireJons]

38. I think y'all are missing the point

It's all about buzz words and the 'New Coalition.' The key to this statement is his use of the word 'assassins.' That term was first coined during the Crusades by Europeans to describe the followers of a particular muslim cleric who doped his followers with hashish and sent them out to kill specific targets. Unfortunately, there is an alliance going on between the neo-cons, the religious right and certain elements of the Catholic Church. This Pope is one of them and he is inciting the flock in subtle ways. He is vehemently anti-Muslim and will never say a peep about the actions of Bushco or their lackey's.

[Emendator]

44. That's ridiculous

The neocons were vile in their expressed hatred of Pope John Paul II for opposing the war. Go to David Horowitz's website and look it up, they called the Vatican a state sponsor of terrorism for not agreeing with Bush. But that's not the only place. They will be even more vile against Benedict XVI when he opposes any potential action against Iran.

[SquireJons]

59. Whatever...

Not sure whose reality you live in. Maybe Mr. Roves?

[Emendator]

111. Here

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=5441

Stop wallowing in uniformed ignorance. Raimondo's articles are loaded with links to other sites, so this will be good enough. Since you probably don't have the attention span to actually read the whole thing, about two-thirds of the way down there is a link to Joseph D'Hippolito of FPM saying the Vatican should be placed on the list of state sponsors of terrorism.

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SquireJons]

120. And the Patriot Act is for Patriotic Americans.

What's in a name? In this case nothing. Deeds are far more important than who you name yourself after, and if you look at Ratzinger's published works and actions, it can only make a progressive person cry.

Here are a few highlites:

"During this time (1968), he distanced himself from the atmosphere of Tübingen and the Marxist leanings of the student movement of the 1960s, that in Germany quickly radicalised in the years 1967 and 1968, culminating in a series of disturbances and riots in April and May 1968. Ratzinger came increasingly to see these and associated developments (decreasing respect for authority among his students, the rise of the German gay rights movement) as related to a departure from traditional Catholic teachings. Increasingly, his views, despite his reformist bent, contrasted with those liberal ideas gaining currency in the theological academy."

"On May 18, 2001, Ratzinger, as part of the implementation of the norms enacted and promulgated <8> on April 30, 2001 by Pope John Paul II, sent a Latin language letter <9> to every bishop in the Catholic Church reminding them of the strict penalties facing those who revealed confidential details concerning enquiries into allegations against priests of certain grave ecclesiastical crimes, including sexual abuse, reserved to the jurisdiction of the CDF. The letter extended the prescription (statute of limitations) for these crimes to ten years. However, when the crime is sexual abuse of a minor, the "prescription begins to run from the day on that which the minor completes the eighteenth year of age." <10> Lawyers acting for two alleged victims of abuse in Texas claim that by sending the letter the cardinal conspired to obstruct justice."

"In 2002, Ratzinger told the Catholic News Service that "less than one percent of priests are guilty of acts of this type." <16> Opponents saw this as ignoring the crimes of those who committed the abuse. A report by the Catholic Church itself estimated that some 4,450 of the Roman Catholic clergy who served between 1950 and 2002 have faced credible accusations of abuse."

"his speech, "Relativism: The Central Problem for Faith Today," the document condemned "relativistic theories" of religious pluralism and described other faiths as "gravely deficient" in the means of salvation. The document was primarily aimed at reining in liberal Catholic theologians like Jacques Dupuis, who argued that other religions could contain God-given means of salvation not found in the Church of Christ, but it offended many religious leaders. Jewish religious leaders boycotted several interfaith meetings in protest."

'in 1987, Cardinal Ratzinger had stated that Jewish history and scripture reach fulfillment only in Christ—a position critics denounced as "theological anti-Semitism"

"In March 1997 Cardinal Ratzinger predicted that Buddhism would over the coming century replace Marxism as the main "enemy" of the Catholic Church"

"In an interview in 2004 for Le Figaro magazine, Ratzinger said Turkey, a country Muslim by heritage and staunchly secularist by its state constitution, should seek its future in an association of Islamic nations rather than the EU, which has Christian roots. He said Turkey had always been "in permanent contrast to Europe" and that linking it to Europe would be a mistake."

Doesn't sound too much like a loving man to me, but of course, you are free to believe what you want. My point was that this pope will back the neo-cons all the way and I stand by that assessment. He has all through his career and there's no reason to think he will change now. To your credit, at least you know I'm talking about the current pope, not the last one.

[QC]

48. Yes, but what is the role of water flouridation in this alliance? n/t

[SquireJons]

60. Why don 't you tell me?

While you ride the bomb waving your cowboy hat.

[BrklynLiberal]

54. Not ridiculous. True. It was Ratzinger who advised against Turkey

being allowed into the EU since they are not a Christian nation.

Ratzinger asserts Vatican stand against Turkey EU membership
Reflecting the Vatican view that Europe must fight to retain its Christian identity, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger has said that bringing Turkey into the European Union would put European culture at risk.

"Europe is a cultural and not a geographical continent," he said.

<snip>

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/CatholicNewsRatzinger.shtml

also in http://www.cathnews.com/news/408/96.php

RELIGION:
EU Greets Ratzinger's Election, Turkey Concerned
Stefania Bianchi

BRUSSELS, Apr 20 (IPS) - Europe has cautiously welcomed the election of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as the new pope, but there are also concerns over his view of Turkey's bid to join the European Union.
http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=28386

[SquireJons]

63. Glad someone is paying attention

Thanks for the links for the ostrich crowd. And btw, that is not the only time he has spoken out against Muslims. He has been very outspoken against Turkish immigrants, has slammed Jews, and even non traditional Catholics. He actively wants a smaller, more devout flock of true believers. Not to mention his being on the board of directors of a phony 'non profit' business concern in Switzerland, where he met with fellow con man Jeb Bush.

The man is a neo-con nazi. One more nail in the cross for the Catholic Church. BTW, I am, or was Catholic, and was rather fond of John Paul II, but he was an aberration, not the norm. Now it's back to business as usual.

[Emendator]

110. he's right

to oppose Turkish membership.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SquireJons]

123. That sounds awfully bigoted

Care to back that up with reason? It's a very short step to go from saying that Turkey should not seek it's future with European nations, to something like opposing interfaith marriages, or racial integration. And don't forget the backdrop of his remarks on Turkey. Not long before he said them, a Turkish woman and her daughter were deliberately burnt to death by neo-nazi's. That was in addition to many other Turkish directed hate crimes throughout Germany. His remarks were completely out of line and devisionist in their very nature. But then again, so is Ratzinger.

[xxqqqzme]

92. my first reaction as well.

The statement is out of the 'Handbook for a Successful Crusade'. It is dissing Allah.

[VegasWolf]

39. This might work if there were a god. nt

[VegasWolf]

40. I hope god's advice to the pope is better than his advice to bush about

Iraq.

[DemBones DemBones]

49. Don't forget that Pope John Paul II told *

that if he went into Iraq, he'd go without God.

[VegasWolf]

55. Yes, but Bush said that the christian god told him to go and that

there would bew few casualties. Obviously bush was not listening
to the catholic god.

[DemBones DemBones]

57. But the point is that the pope told him not to make war.

And I think even Bush knows that Catholics are Christians and don't have a different God.

[VegasWolf]

93. Yes, and Bush did not listen to him. Instead, Bush said he directly

listened to God. Here we have two leaders, each claiming to
talk to god. Obviously, one was wrong. Falwell says he talks to god
directly too. I guess all these people are speaking
a modified quasi ex cathedra.

[TankLV]

105. Different pope - different time. Tha's soooo pre (insert date here).

Yeah - Like I should trust what a former Nazi says!

[daleo]

45. Too bad he didn't say that before the four bombs failed in London

That would have led to some interesting discussions.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Pope going to meet with Muslim leaders at Cologne

At the same time, Benedict’s spokesman said the pope was placing immense importance on a scheduled meeting in Cologne, Germany, next month with members of Germany’s Muslim community.

The pope, who is traveling to Cologne for the church’s World Youth Day, added the meeting with Muslims to his itinerary after deciding to visit Cologne’s synagogue, clearly trying to make a statement about the need for dialogue among religions during his first foreign trip.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8689078/

[DemBones DemBones]

53. Thanks for posting this, Indy. Some of us

appreciate what this Pope is doing in trying to build bridges with other faiths.

[Emendator]

112. Unfortunately

Some other faiths don't want to build bridges back. But the Pope is right to keep trying. While his efforts may not be getting through to many Muslim clerics, I hope they have an effect on some of the followers.

[LiberalFighter]

58. Why did pope wait til now to implore god to stay hands of terrorists?

[burrowowl]

62. He forgets that

God gave Man Free Will!
B XVI is dumber than JP II

We need another John XXIII!

[MountainLaurel]

71. And that applies

To assassins like John Salvi, James Kopp, Eric Rudolph, Clayton Waagoner, and Neil Horsly as well? Or are we just talking about the brown-skinned heathen ones?

[SoCalDem]

64. Stay, as in steady?

Bzzzzzt Benny..try again

[The Stranger]

68. And in other news, the Pope's arms became mysteriously paralyzed.

The Vatican had no comment.

[raccoon]

74. This kind of goofy remark ticks me off

"we call on the Omnipotent to stay the hands of assassins.." the Pope said

If even the POPE portrays God as a celestial parent that we implore to bring about desired outcomes in our lives, no wonder that so many regular people--not just regular Americans--think so.

People have free will. Even "assassins" have free will.

[grumpy old fart]

77. Gee, I wonder why this never works??

Cain slew Abel Seth knew not why
For if the children of Israel were to multiply
Why must any of the children die?
So he asked the Lord
And the Lord said:

Man means nothing he means less to me
Than the lowliest cactus flower
Or the humblest Yucca tree
He chases round this desert
'Cause he thinks that's where I'll be
That's why I love mankind

I recoil in horror fro the foulness of thee
>From the squalor and the filth and the misery
How we laugh up here in heaven at the prayers you offer me
That's why I love mankind

The Christians and the Jews were having a jamboree
The Buddhists and the Hindus joined on satellite TV
They picked their four greatest priests
And they began to speak
They said, "Lord, a plague is on the world
Lord, no man is free
The temples that we built to you
Have tumbled into the sea
Lord, if you won't take care of us
Won't you please, please let us be?"
And the Lord said
And the Lord said

I burn down your cities-how blind you must be
I take from you your children and you say how blessed are we
You all must be crazy to put your faith in me
That's why I love mankind
You really need me
That's why I love mankind

Randy Newman/God's Song

[dhinojosa]

82. "the victims of these acts that offend God and man"? WTF?

Why do the victims offend God? I think we have another language champion like Bush.

[iamjoy]

84. Why Not Soften The Terrorist Hearts?

Why "stay their hand" - why not enter their heads to tell them murder (even in God's name) is wrong? Why not ask God's love to fill the terrorists' hearts so they are not so driven by fanatacism and hate?

[jahyarain]

114. or stop separating each other

with ignorant, hateful, fake, man-made, Godless religions (yes, all of them)

[geckosfeet]

118. Thank you pope. Hey, can you explain to me how a guy that old

can get his head so far up his ass?

[Deja Q]

122. "God's goodness"? Just what is God to him, a whole grain muffin?!

:eyes:

I think God abandoned us after we killed Jesus' corporeal form; saying His words were treason. (anyone in the right wing who claims to be "Christian" ought to re-read several noteworthy passages of the Bible...)

Like these!

* Ecclesiasticus 13:3-8 (1)
* Ecclesiasticus 13:16, 18-23 (1)
* Ecclesiasticus 20:1
* Ephesians 2:8-9
* James 2:14-17
* James 5:1-6 (paralleling today's economy)
* 1 Timothy 6:10
* Proverbs 22:16
* Deuteronomy 24:5
* Mark 12:38-44
* Matthew 5:44
* Matthew 7:1
* Matthew 25: 31-46
* Luke 6:31
* Luke 14:12-14
* Luke 17:21
* Revelation 3:17
* Revelation 22:12

(1) The New Jerusalem Bible, Doubleday Publishing, 1989. This is the fun part about organized religion. So many people have translated the original texts in so many ways, no two versions are alike. Then there's the validity of the "original" text to consider...

Which reminds me: Michael Powell of the FCC wants to restore dignity in the media. While this is overall a good thing, why not look up Ezekiel 23: 1-27 and ask just how far back Mr. Powell should go. Preferably from the New International Version, as the King James Version has some unintelligable censorship in that passage. Which is ironic, as some of the KJV's passages seem less fettered with a political agenda and speak of the truth (e.g. greed and unruly selfishness being the cause of a city's demise rather than a purported orgy)! And Genesis 19:31-36 is good for a chuckle too.

[raccoon]

124. Hey, Pope, how 'bout praying for

"... the Omnipotent to stay the hands of who, driven on by , have committed these things.."