WP,pg1: As Debt Collectors Multiply, So Do Consumer Complaints

[DeepModem Mom]

As Debt Collectors Multiply, So Do Consumer Complaints

By Caroline E. Mayer
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 28, 2005; Page A01


Embarrassing calls at work. Threats of jail and even violence. Improper withdrawals from bank accounts. An increasing number of consumers are complaining of abusive techniques from some companies that are part of a new breed of debt collectors.

They are debt buyers, outfits that acquire unpaid bills from credit card firms and other credit providers for pennies on the dollar and then try to collect....As the amount of consumer debt has risen over the years, so too has the number of these firms, growing from about a dozen firms in 1996 to more than 500 today. Industry officials say the firms provide a real benefit to indebted consumers, letting them pay off their bills at steep discounts. But industry critics -- plaintiff attorneys, consumer advocates and regulators -- say that for some firms, the demand to make a profit on the debts they purchase has resulted in the increasing use of heavy-handed, and sometimes illegal, tactics.

Year in, year out, the Federal Trade Commission receives more complaints about debt collectors than any other industry. But in recent years, these complaints have skyrocketed -- from 13,950 in 2000 to 58,687 last year. Complaints about third-party debt collectors accounted for close to one in six of all FTC complaints last year, up from 9.5 percent in 2000.

Francis Buselli of Amherst, N.H., told the FTC that a debt collector called him repeatedly about a debt the company said his daughter owed -- even though she had moved out 15 years before. On Nov. 26, 2004, the company called about six times in 15 minutes. On the final call, the debt collector recited Buselli's Social Security number, mentioned his wife by name and threatened to send thugs to get him, according to Buselli's FTC complaint....


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702473.html

[rox63]

1. This is only going to get worse

Now that the bankruptcy bill is law.

[WCGreen]

2. I was on the phone for over a half an hour

with one of these companies trying to collect a debt that I know I didn't have....

Turns out there was a guy with my name, and only one digit off fro my SS#

So they are calling, several times. I told them I had gone bankrupt and had no idea why the AllTell bill was still floating around....

Then, it turns out the guy had died....

I guess I can expect more of the same....

[Merlot]

3. Your name AND one digit off from your SS??

What are the chances of that?

You're sure it's not identity theft?

[WCGreen]

14. Well Green is a pretty common name.....

And I do taxes. And I have seen a lot of similar SS#'s in my day...

But they didn't have it on record that I was bankrupt.

I think it was one of those secondary credit companies in this story that don't always get the right person....

In Cleveland alone there are thrity five people with my name.....

But we are checking to see on our credit report....

[annabanana]

4. BOY a lot of overextended people are in

for the rudest of awakenings..Will they finally blink their sleepy eyes, look around, and figure out just who's doing thi sto them?

[progressivebydesign]

5. Overextended thanks to the new economy.

Raises are a thing of the past, jobs are never secure.

[annabanana]

7. overextended due to inflation

And I'm talkin' the SNEAKY kind of inflation..

Just try to buy a one pound can of coffee anymore..
or a half gallon of ice cream

they aren't on the shelves, kids...

[UpInArms]

10. "new" and "improved" packaging

:rofl:

Nothing new and improved for the consumer - just the corporation.

[zanne]

12. I know what you mean, annabanana

The other day, I put my newly-purchased bottle of dishwashing detergent next to my almost-empty old bottle. The new bottle looked different to me; then I noticed that it was two ounces lighter!

[Deja Q]

29. Cost of living rising; corporate execs more hungry for money...

Anti-american...

[JDPriestly]

6. Debt collector

Now isn't that a great pseudo-job for someone who is unemployed. That someone could sink so low as to scrape the bottom of the barrel for work is really sad. The guys that make the calls probably get just a tiny fraction of the amount owed and can collect very little of that.

[pitohui]

15. the guys that make the calls do very well for themselves

they make good money and are highly motivated to threaten people

the commissions are good because most people can't stomach the work

but excellent pay for relatively few skillz

[KansDem]

8. Man, does this hit close to home...!!!

Two years ago I applied for a received a CapOne Mastercard to use on a vacation. My family and I were going to rent a minivan for a two-week trip through the western US. Well, two weeks after we returned I was hit with a serious illness that laid me up for 5 weeks. I missed receiving two paychecks during this time and that put us behind. We've been playing "catch-up" ever since.

CapOne collections would call me about a payment. I would tell them I'd send one, usually the minimum, on the next payday. That would seemed to satisfy them, then they would call back the next day wanting to know when I was sending them a payment. I'd explain that I spoke with someone the day before and I'd repeat the information. Then they would call back the next day and ask the same thing. Over and over, day after day. I would tell them the same thing, over and over, day after day. Payday would come and I'd send them the payment as agreed upon, then the whole process would begin again for the next payment. I asked them why they needed to call me every day even though the payment agreement hadn't changed. They said that was their policy. I'd ask to speak to a supervisor and always was rebuffed every time. And every time I was asked to verify the same information: address and phone number. I told them this too hadn't changed from the previous day.

I didn't have it as bad as the people in this article but such hounding could get quite annoying.

[pitohui]

16. why don't you get an answering machine

don't see how they can hound you by phone these days

[Skittles]

30. why did you keep answering the phone?

f*** that

[shrike]

9. If you're disputing the debt, they can't call you

It's the law. We were disputing a cell phone bill and after a few nasty collector calls, we'd had enough. A rather shady gentleman in our area did do us some good -- he advised us of a 20-year-old law that forbids debt collection calls if the consumer disputes the bill -- i.e., you don't owe what they say you do. Turns out he was right. My husband got on the phone with the next debt collector and informed him of the law. His supervisor said she'd call us back. "You're right," she said, after a few minutes. We never got another call, and eventually the cell phone matter was resolved -- in our favor. We didn't have to pay a penny.

[Gormy Cuss]

11. A problem not covered by the debt collection regulations

If they're harassing you because you have a similar name or for some other reason they think the person can be reached at your number, there is nothing in the debt collection regulations that gives you the same protection to tell them to bug off.
The federal regs are silent on this. I learned this when I was harassed by clowns from one of the biggest debt collection agencies.
They insisted that I had to give them my SSN so they could check their records. Fat chance. The supervisor got on the phone and had a hissy fit, accusing me of all sorts of random things. I took notes. I located their home office, sent a letter detailing my interactions and suggested that if this is how they treat everyone it's no wonder debt collectors are considered scum of the earth. Oh, and I cc'ed the FTC. Last time anyone from that company has called here.

[BiggJawn]

13. Was asked once by one to "Check and see if he's there"...

This was for harrassing calls I was getting at the TV transmitter site I worked at.

"There's nobody here by that name. in fact, there's usually NOBODY here, you just got lucky and called on sheduled visit day."

"Would you check and see if he's there in the other room?"

"I'm TELLING you, there's NOBODY here but me."

"Would you check and see if he's outside? Maybe he's having a smoke in the alley?"

"I fucking doubt it. I'm in the middle of a 40-acre brush field, and there's no alley."

"Well, what's YOUR name?"

"My name is for my friends."

"Aren't *I* your friend? I'd LIKE to be your friend."

"Fuck you!" (slams phone down.)

This went on almost weekly for 6 months before they finally bought a clue that some asshole had given 'em a bogus phone #....

[Gormy Cuss]

25. LOL - you're even more ornery than I am .

I wonder if they even care how many bridges are burned in their zealous collection efforts. Me, I'm an upstanding citizen who believes scofflaws* should be pursued and made to pay up, but I will never help a debt collector because of my experiences.



*by scofflaws, I mean only those people who don't want to pay their bills, not the good people who are down on their luck and can't pay.

[Megahurtz]

17. Welcome to America!!!

The laws have now been made FOR the corporations,
and we the consumers are now practically forbidden to sue.
Our rights have been sent down the shitter by Bush & Corp.:hurts:

Big armed corporations can now pretty much do what they want, whenever they want!:evilgrin:

What a secure feeling!:sarcasm:

There's always such a thing as call block ya know.........

[Matariki]

18. someone i know had $1000 taken from their checking account

by an overzealous (and abusive) employee of a collection agency. The employee faked an electronic check. They stupidly used a check number already used and her bank is pursuing a fraud charge. Plus she no longer has to worry about this particular debt ;-)

[intensitymedia]

19. So what's the smart thing to do if you're being eaten by debt? n/t

[hamsterjill]

20. One Collection Company in Houston, Texas

Okay, so I have to relate this story:

I was contacted on numerous occasions about a debt that my ex-husband had incurred and was responsible for, but did not pay. This was a 17 year old debt - one of those situations whereby the debt had been sold, sold and sold again, etc. We had already been divorced for that longer than 17 years.

I explained that I was not the person who was responsible for the debt and that they should quit calling.

They kept calling. I sent a certified letter telling them NOT TO CALL. They called again.

I got pissed, did some research on the internet and found the name of the owner of the company in Houston, Texas. With a little creativity, I was able to locate his home phone number (under his wife's name). I kept it on hand.

The next time they called, I asked the representative if they recognized the gentleman's name. Was told "yes". I said well, I have his home phone number - and proceeded to recite the number.

I told them that for every phone call that I received from them after telling them not to call, that I was going to reciprocate by calling that man's home phone number and explaining to him that I was being called by his employees, etc. about a debt that wasn't mine. The guy on the phone said "that's harrassment" to which I replied "So is this"...

Haven't heard from them again...

[annabanana]

21. Very enterprising and clever of you!. . . . n/t

[hamsterjill]

22. Why thank you!

I'm not usually that bold, but this place just would not quit. They were rude and it was just the principle of the thing.

This company was well-known for nasty tactics, too. If memory serves me correctly they were actually THROWN OUT of the Houston Better Business Bureau!! I didn't even know you could get thrown out of the BBB.

Sometimes you have to get down to their level unfortunately. And it shouldn't be that way.

[annabanana]

33. But nonetheless..

It must have been very satisfying...

Oh, and Welcome to DU!:toast:

[DeepModem Mom]

41. Thanks for relating your experience, hamsterjill -- welcome to DU!

[sendero]

23. I almost never...

... (and the wife and kids also) answer the phone unless I recognize the number on caller id. Anyone else can leave a message :)

The wife did answer one once, where American Express was trying to collect a debt her ex husband incurred LONG AFTER they were divorced.

She was polite at first, then the rep got pushy. Big mistake for the rep :) They never called back.

[Occulus]

40. I'm even more ruthless than that

People I know and who know me are aware that they need to dial, hang up, and dial again (this little code will now chnge, by the way) when they're calling me from an unknown number.

See... I don't have an answering machine. :evilgrin: I refuse to get one. If it's important, they can call me at home. If it's really important, the right people have my (emergency) cell number. I don't call out on that, either, as it's kept in the car.... for emergencies. Better yet, it's prepaid, so if I don't buy the upgrade in time to extend service, the number changes when I finally do pay. No muss, no fuss, no bother.

And, with caller ID, no collection calls. I just ignore what I don't know, like I do with emails.

[pinniped]

24. I would tell them to come and FN try it.

--threatened to send thugs to get him--

[katamaran]

26. We had a NASTY one call us today

Someone called my my this morning and left a message with just the woman's name and phone number to call back. No company name. When my mom called her, the woman said they were a collection agency and that we were over $300 past due on our electric bill from May-June. They wanted immediate payment over the phone or they would take us to court. My mom was VERY suspicious since she always OVERpays her bills, so she said she wanted more info. The woman told her to call the power company.

Power company says we actually have almost a $100 credit on the account, that we've never had a bill that high, and that if we were that far behind, they would have cut off the power a month ago. Also showed that the last time the power bill was paid late was by three days in 1996. So everything on our account is legit.

Mom and I realized that the electricity is actually in my dad's name, so why the hell would they call looking for her? She never asked for an account number for the power company or anything. The woman was still demanding payment, so mom talked to the supervisor, who kept threatening legal action, wage garnishments, etc (mind you, my mom doesn't work, so wage garnishments are out).

I did an FTC and BBB search for the company but can't find anything. Lots of Google hits for them, but nothing that seems odd (Van Ru Credit). The only thing we can think is that there was another woman in our city with my mom's name back about 10 years ago who's credit was horrible, and her name kept coming up when my parents were refinancing the house. It's just very scary that these people have the power they do, even though the originating debt source has said they never sent anything to them.

I wish I could do everything in cash. I trust that.

[PassingFair]

28. This exact scenario happened to me about a year ago...

Got a call out of the blue from a collection agency trying to collect on an overdue electricity bill (6 years overdue!). I told them that I had always paid my electricity bills and that there was a mistake.
She acted like they never made mistakes. When she gave me the info, it transpired that the middle name of the deadbeat was different than mine, but that she'd lived somewhere with the same street ADDRESS, different street, mind you.
So the utility slapped MY S.S. number on the debt and sold it!
That was all it took, first and last names, the numbers 2900 and the city. I took me MONTHS to get it cleared off of my credit report.
Then came the happy day when I opened one of my credit card statements only to discover that my interest rate had jumped to 22%!!!!!!!!!!!
When I called to find out why, they told me it was because an unpaid utility bill had adversely affected my credit rating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dropped the credit card, but never got an apology from the utility.

The old "Tuttle/Buttle" threatens us all.

[Matariki]

36. sounds like possible fraud

you should call your state's attorney general's office immediately. they are very helpful with consumer complaints and usually have a whole department for credit and fraud issues.

[delen]

38. Word on Van Ru

They were handling bogus student loan consolidations a couple years ago.
My boyfriend and I got a call from them over supposedly delinquent student loans, when they called he was at work, the woman got really nasty and actually insinuated that there was something "intimate" between them and this was urgent with regards to this "intimacy" that could affect him medically.
I don't think such claims are legal, later on we heard that they were part of a student loan scam and were being brought to court by the attorney general in our state.

[DeepModem Mom]

42. Thanks for this info, delen -- and welcome to DU!

[alfredo]

27. I just won a fight with a bill collector. I didn't owe anything and got

my credit record cleaned.

CVS Pharmacy said I owed them $22.34 since 2000. I never received a bill, or a phone call. The cashier at the pharmacy never informed me of a debt. (they have that info and will inform you if the insurance company denies coverage) they just turned it over to a collection agency. It took two days and a lot of phone calls but I prevailed.

You can win with honest collection agencies, but the punks you described need to be hauled before the law.

[depakid]

31. Consumer protection could have been a great Democratic issue

If only the leadership would have pressed it over the years.

Oh well, yet another of the 999 reasons the Dems have become irrelevant and lost their working class base.

[earth mom]

32. A solution: Screen your calls and/or use caller ID

And as long as you pay something toward the account, there's nothing they can do to you.

Here's a great book on getting out of debt-it follows the Debtors Annoymous program, but isn't overly preachy as I recall though it's been a few years since I read it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553283960/qid=1122597115/sr=8-4/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl14/103-5629345-6394222?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[oscar111]

34. RECOMND FOR GREATEST PAGE and ,PS ban bill collectors

entirely.

they are inhuman in concept.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. Have your hospitals bills audited by a state auditor

before they are turned over to a collection agency. Some states have auditors that will intervene to contact the hospital and do an internal audit of the billing, to make sure there's no abuse. This scares the hospital and collection agencies probably won't take the account while an audit is ongoing. The abuses by hospitals are amazing. Many of them don't want to give you an itemized bill. They can pile up hidden charges, like $120 for a box of kleenex. It's outrageous.

My cousin who is uninsured spent 3 hours in the emergency room and received a hospital bill of over $18,000. The hospital charged him over $4000 for a CT scan alone. When he got the bill he was stunned, as the hospital did virtually nothing except give him a CT scan and stitch him up. He found out that in Nevada there is a government agency that will step in and audit the hospital's billing under certain circumstances just to make sure the consumer isn't getting ripped off (which they invariably are).

[tblue37]

37. Whenever I get a bill from a doctor or the hospital,

I go over it with a fine-toothed comb.

I have decent insurance, and they bill them (and me) far beyond what they should Recently, a cardiologist's office billed me for an office visit on July 16, 2004. I had suffered a mild stroke on July 19, 2004, and the doctor had ordered up a bunch of tests. My first visit to the cardiologist was on July 21, yet the billing office insisted they had the doctor's signature on a notation that I had been seen on July 16.

Obviously it was an attempt to pad the bill by adding in an extra visit.

They assume you won't go over the bill, so they do crap like this and usually get away with it. They also make you do a ridiculous phone dance for hours, over days, to straighten anything out, and they know moist people will just give up and pay, especially if it is just a relatively small amount.

I spent a lot of time on the phone straightening that out. It was only $34.00, but in the first place, I am not exactly rich, and on my budget, $34.00 is more that I like to throw away. But mainly it just pissed me off enough that I was willing to do what I had to do to get that bill removed. One thing the billing office did was they kept transferring my call to people who had absolutely nothing to do with the disputed bill issue. Once they transferred me to the nurse's station at the hospital emergency room. The nurse there was totally puzzled about why my call had been transferred there. Obviously it was an attempt to make me just give up.

Finally I told the cardiology billing office that I was going to report them for insurance fraud. I said, "I assume the insurance company has already paid their share of this fraudulent bill, and I am pretty sure they would want to know they are getting ripped off like this.

That fixed it, of course. All of a sudden they were willing to accept my word that I hadn't been in the office on July 16.

I have also found that insurance companies will deny payment on bills they really should be paying. I go over my bills, which are pretty much indecipherable—and I don’t doubt that is on purpose. And I call up and question everything they say the insurance doesn’t cover. Usually I end up owing only a limited percentage of what they originally say I owe.

They know that most people can’t make sense out of those bills. I can’t either, but I call them up and make them explain everything, line by line. Also, they know most people are too busy to call, wait on hold, and do all the things you have to do to get a straight answer. I am way too busy, too, but I get so angry at being scammed that I do it anyway, no matter how hard it is to find the time and energy to do it.

[CoffeeCat]

39. I seriously advise people to buy one of those telephone tape recorders...

..and record phone calls.

You never know when something like this might happen, and if you have the calls on tape--you have evidence.

Collection agencies and your creditors--do not have the right to abuse you, threaten you, lie to you or harass you. Just because you owe them money does not give them the right to do these things. It's illegal.

Several years ago, I had an outstanding bill and I began receiving horrendous phone calls from a collection agency--while I was at work. The man would scream at me. I taped the calls. He would screech at the top of his lungs. I told him I was only able to make $25 monthly payments and he swore at me. I swore back and he proceed to tell me that I had violated FCC rules by swearing over the telephone line.

I replied, "Excuse me, but I have a degree in journalism and I'm fully aware that speech over the phone lines is not regulated by the FCC. However, are you aware, that I've been taping your abusive phone calls? Why do you think I always call you back, after you call me." <click> (He hung up. Not me).

I visited the business to which I owed the money and asked to speak to the owner. I told her that I was continuing to pay and that I would do so until the debt (plus interest) was paid. I also told her that if that collection agency EVER bothered me at home or work again--that I would sue both HER and the agency--and I told her that I had taped the abusive calls. I told her to call off her dogs, or else she would be just as liable as the abuser on the other end of the phone.

I never heard from the collection agency again.

And...I finally paid off the bill within a year.

[footinmouth]

43. I've been getting calls for my son

My son hasn't lived here in 5 years and he's in a bit of a financial bind right now. I don't like getting these calls at all. He's an adult and this is not my responsibility. I don't even know how they got this phone number.

Thank goodness for caller-ID. I'm no longer picking up the phone unless I'm sure who's on the other end. I hope he gets this mess straightened out soon because what I read in this thread was downright scary. I sure don't want to deal with those people.