CBC: Scientists sound alarm on Arctic ice cap

[Newsjock]

http://north.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=arctic-ice-29072005

CBC News

Satellite data for the month of June show Arctic sea ice has shrunk to a record low, raising concerns about climate change, coastal erosion, and changes to wildlife patterns.

The National Snow and Ice Data Centre in the United States uses remote sensing imagery to survey ice cover at both poles.

The centre says 2002 was a record low year for sea ice cover in the Arctic, since satellite observations began in 1979.

... Now scientists fear this year could be worse. June readings indicate the ice is at its lowest limit ever for that time of year.

... Now some scientists are wondering if the melting of the sea ice has already gone beyond a critical threshold from which it can't recover.

more

[Eloriel]

1. Oh, well. In this throwaway culture,

wasn't it just a matter of time til we trashed the whole damn planet??

:nuke:

My heart can only ache so long and so hard before it breaks; I'm becoming numb.

NOMINATED

[Delphinus]

3. Eloriel,

I comprehend, understand, live, and feel exactly what you said at the end of your post. :hug:

[scarletwoman]

25. I no longer have any faith in political solutions. Earth herself is going

to get the deciding vote on how (and if) humanity survives this period in our history.

We've trashed this beautiful garden that we were given, and scorned the gift of consciousness and rational thinking by giving ourselves over to short-term attachment to material desires and tribalist hatreds.

The Earth, herself will survive the changes, but humankind may very well not. Whatever other sentient beings there may out there in the vast Universe, may they take heed of the terrible lessons being played out on this small precious globe...

sw

[hecate77]

36. It is way too late for political solutions. Hang on and ride with it.

There is pretty much nothing we could do now to reverse this thing. It is happening and we will just have to adapt. Period.

If, and this is a big, big, if, we had started in the 60s and 70s, maybe we could have had an effect, but not any more. I seriously doubt, though, that even if the US had done something major and drastic at that time, that enough of the rest of the world would have followed along to make much of a difference.

So, get out the hip boots, pull up a beach chair, and watch the oceans rise!

Here in California, in the Central Coast, we had rain in July. I am not sure if this means the rainy season ran extra long, or is getting an early start on next year. So, it looks like, for the west coast, we are heading towards wetter, which means drier for the Great Basin. I would guess that Northern Europe is in for a bit of a cool off, given that 10 of the 12 conveyors in the North Atlantic have already shut off. Bye, bye Gulf Stream. Hello mini ice age.....

As the Greenland ice cap melts, Greenland itself will rise 100s of meters due to the release of the weight of the ice. As the oceans fill up, they will press down more on the mantle raising the continents some. At the same time the water expands. Hmmm, ocean bottoms dropping, continents rising, sounds like there might be some earthquakes in there, too, and maybe a few volcanos. Your guess is as good as mine. This is all new to us.

Wheee....

[ramapo]

45. It's too late baby

Jimmy Carter was the end of the beginning. The U.S. gets much of the blame but the rest of the world follows in our footsteps, trashing and slashing whatever happens to be on their landmass.

Mother Earth will survive, adapt, and eventually repair. Our place in the equation remains to be seen. The laws of nature do not necessarily include the unbridled continuation of a society based entirely upon consumption.

[Desertrose]

52. I don't think a consumption society should be allowed to continue....

we started this mess and now we (humankind) will be the ones to pay and or clean up the mess we created...cept I think this mess is WAY bigger than anything we can do to clean it up.

Yes I think we are pretty much just along for the ride now. Should be interesting.

Wheeeeeeeeeeee..............

(Damn shame isn't it? I thought this was a beautiful and nifty world...for awhile anyhow til the greedy ones took control...or did we simply hand it over to them.......hmmmmm)

[reprobate]

56. It's not the US and rest of the world. It's the corporate minset.......

.....of profit ubber alles. If this were a just universe, there would be a bounty on corporate management. It's they that are responsible for the troubles of the earth that will end our society.

The only real consolation is that even in their gated communities they will not survive any longer than the rest of us without oxygen.

[davekriss]

57. I recall scientists and others in the seventies...

...already (then) asking if it was too late, if we had already passed the point of no return. The answer back then was generally "yes".

[MisterP]

39. why do you think Bush's got a Space Manifest Destiny?

for *, the "safety of the Shuttle" means the mechanism that stops the gatling guns from going off on the pad

[stepnw1f]

2. Yet Right Wingers STill Won't Acknowledge Tis

So those in power who have the power(All the power) won't even acknowledge Global Warming. These people are killing us all.... argghhhhhhhhhhh!

[barb162]

4. Bush has his head up

his you know what, right? I'd like to see the numbers coming out of China and Russia too though. I think they use a lot of coal and aren't really hot on using scrubbers and other pollution modifiers. Since China has really industrialized, I bet they are polluting like heck too. You always say the pictures of people in Peking wearing face masks because the pollution is so bad there. We're all in it together, screwing up the planet.

[stepnw1f]

7. Sorry But...

I could have included other corporations and political figures around the globe, surrrreeee.... but I didn't. What stops us here from doing what "WE" should be doing, are right wing assholes.

I don't give a shit about China or Russia, ok? I am talking specifically about the Republican corporate agenda in this nation! Leaders lead and don't wait for other nations to do the right thing... bad excuse for doing the opposite!

[Delphinus]

49. "leaders lead"

and that's the problem. We have no leaders. All we have is ourselves.

[Viking12]

9. USA = 4% of world population, 28% of global GHG emissions...

hard to pass it off on China and Russia....

[barb162]

14. I am NOT trying to pass it off to others

The US is a bad guy on pollution and we should have fixed this already. But it is a world problem

[Viking12]

20. My apologies

I misread the implications in your post.

[wickerwoman]

33. China has the second largest CO2 emissions

by volume but it's still less than half what the US emits and when you translate that into per capita emissions you can't even begin to compare. Cars are still a luxury item in China, whereas it would be an unusual four person family in the US that didn't have 2 cars. SUVs are almost completely unknown and most of the taxis are switching to hybrids.

Those people in Beijing are wearing face masks because of the dust storms. The city is smack-up next to a desert (which is growing every year) and heavy winds from the west create massive, blinding dust storms for a good chunk of the year. I'm not saying that Beijing isn't polluted but it's noticably less so than Xi'an, Chongqing or Taiyuan (where the people don't need to wear masks on a daily basis but seem to be dropping dead of lung cancer at frightening young ages.)

And China is investing a lot in massive hydroelectic projects, wind energy, tidal energy, etc. Whereas the US is researching "clean coal".

We're all in it together, yes, but to try and pass off responsibility for the current crisis on the developing world is exactly the kind of crap Bush used to avoid signing the Kyoto treaty.

[Psephos]

37. China's Three Gorges hydro dam is an ecological nightmare

and they are building 20 new nuke plants.

You might wish to look for other examples to contrast with the US.

Peace.

[wickerwoman]

42. I was responding to a poster

who was asking about pollution in China and Russia so it wouldn't have made much sense to contrast a different country to the US.

I didn't say that China has a perfect environmental policy- simply that it is absurd that a developed country with 11 times the per capita CO2 emissions of a developing country should blame global warming on the developing country.

I'm not a huge fan of the Three Gorges Project, but what else is China supposed to do? They have no oil, only coal and burning it has devastated the environment in the western provinces. They are developing wind, tidal and solar projects but they have only a fraction of the power needed to keep 1.3 billion people employed.

Here in Shanghai businesses and factories regularly close for weeks at a time in the summer because air conditioning is too expensive and no one can work in 110 degree heat with 60 or 70% humidity. One trip to the gas station for an SUV driving American might have kept dozens of Chinese workers employeed during those weeks.

The Three Gorges Project may be bad news for some birds and fish, but it will decrease flooding saving lives, provide power for thousands of businesses creating and securing jobs and allow larger ships to reach more remote upstream cities on the Chang Jiang River allowing economic prosperity to spread from the coastal region inland to places where indoor plumbing is a novelty.

How concerned were we about the environmental impact of the Hoover Dam or the Panama Canal? Not very much, I suspect. Isn't it at least a little bit hypocritical then to wring our hands over the environmental impact of the Three Gorges Dam? I'd love to live in a perfect world where the best interests of the planet could be safeguarded all the time, but coming from a country that had done more directly and indirectly to fuck up the planet than any civilization in history, I find it hard to criticize the Chinese with a straight face. Like I said, I'm not a big fan of the project, but I'm not going to be the one to tell the Chinese they have no right to modernize because it will destroy the planet.

[Toots]

40. I think those two countries have signed the Kyoto treaty though

They at least are willing to try and help the situation.

[Psephos]

41. Russia signed last fall, after years of opposition; China is exempt

As the world's No. 2 CO2 emitter, China is not willing to "try and help the situation," but they absolutely support Kyoto because Kyoto will cause more European manufacturing to be transferred to China due to rising costs of compliance. Under Kyoto, China is classified as a developing nation, and therefore DOESN'T HAVE TO REDUCE ANY EMISSIONS.

European plants tend to already be cleaner than those in China, so the net effect is that global CO2 emissions from this sector of economic activity will go up as dirty Chinese plants replace clean Euro plants.

Russia has its own reasons for signing, but they're not ecological. One of the most influential is that Russia will claim emissions credits for the purification of the air by Siberian forests. These credits will then be sold on the emissions markets (for around $30 to $60 per ton of CO2). Russia is claiming 900 million tons of CO2 are scrubbed by the forests. Do the math, and you'll see why they decided to sign after so many years of saying "nyet."

Peace.

[hatrack]

63. We signed it, too - we just haven't ratified it

And we never will, with clowns like Inhofe in the Senate and What's-His-Ass (Barton, I believe, of Texas, of course) in the House demanding financial records of America's leading climate experts in a last-gasp attempt to make the whole issue go away by "discrediting" 20 years of global climate science.

[Fritz67]

22. Oh c'mon...

...Any Right Thinking person knows global warming is junk science, just like tobacco's link to cancer.

And that we should teach Creationism in schools.
:sarcasm:

[davekriss]

58. Recall Bush's remark...

...that went something like this: "What does it matter, in the long run we're all dead anyway!". Such is the quality of leadership provided by those inpower today. Sad and extremely tragic.

[BikeWriter]

5. we are so fucked...

[Amonester]

12. We are. And each time I see a young kid playing with his toys,

I can't help but think to myself: "Poor kid. What kind of a trash canned world is he going to be forced to struggle for survival in when he'll get to be 30 something? And how about his own kids then?"

So sad. Life on this planet could/should be so much different, so much better. There has to be a way without that age old careless exploitation of the resources, but ignorance and greed seem to have won. At least the homosexuals can't marry, so who cares if we all die in total desolation, hey?

Science? Who needs to even bother with that?

"We're doomed anyway!" - (more or less from we know who...)

:yoiks:

[Ilsa]

13. Oh, you worry wart!

He's not going to have kids, because the pollution is going to make him sterile, and he's probably going to die young. :sarcasm:
That's probably why the rightwingers want everyone making babies so fast and furiously.

[Amonester]

17. You mean, it ain't because they want to send them to fight

and die (or lose limbs) in their endless Oil Wars of the Twenty First Century so they can be the richest Pharisees on earth before the Rapture comes and they don't get saved because they're too wealthy? (re: "it's easier for a camel to enter a needle's eye")

If not, what's the point then? Yes, I know: they are "illogical."

[BikeWriter]

18. We were a stolen election away from vast surpluses...

a President who wanted sound anti-pollution laws, and education for our young. It's so sad we were so close.

[Amonester]

21. But the Chinese and the Indians wanted to scrap the planet as

much as the industrialized countries did for the last couple of centuries, and the corporatists said: "Let's not allow the People to vote their new environmentalist President in. Hey, not only he won't cut our taxes so we can get a lot richer than we already are, but he'll even increase 'em!! Screw the Constitution, and screw the People's environment! Let's outsource their jobs!" (more or less what they did).

We've got to change something. The question is: how?

[BikeWriter]

29. I'm not sure we can any more...

I want to go camp out in front of the White House for a couple of weeks, if I can manage it. Maybe I'll know what I need to do then.

[davekriss]

59. Yes, that is an emmense tragedy... we were so close (eom)

[msongs]

6. hmm maybe bush can freeze the ocean with freezers made in china LOL

and financed on our national debt paper that belongs to the communist chinese goverment thanks to him.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Bragi]

8. Fox news headline...

"Missing white woman could be swept away with Aruba"

- B

[Zorbuddha]

10. "IT'S THE GODDAMN ENVIRONMENTALISTS"

I heard a radio host talking about the 'enviromental friendly' foam that fell off the shuttle causing the damage. The way he said it was a verbal eye-roll. Smarmy. I can just hear his ilk blaming the melting sea ice on environmentalists and Liberals.

This is some serious shit.

[don954]

11. bush admin response:

<img src="">
enough said

[Erika]

15. What legacy are we leaving to our children?

But as long as Bush gets his Bushbots believing there is no problem, little can or will be done.

[roguevalley]

16. I would read this in its entirety but I live 300 miles south of the arctic

circle and it scares me too much. :O

[Erika]

19. I visited Alaska a few years ago

with a friend who had been stationed at Whittier. The reduction of the glaciers to almost nothing also scared the heck out of him. The wildlife, the rookeries, etc. will soon be gone.

Bush's concern? "Let's get that oil".

[barb162]

26. I have been there too, twice

I was surprised to see photos of Portage glacier really receding as are the others. It was way closer to the visitor center when I was there about ten years ago.

[ramapo]

46. I've missed it

Always wanted to get to Alaska. Was somewhat close 25 years ago. Should've gone. I used to joke about going to see it before it melts.

It's not a joke.:(

[phusion]

23. fuck.

We are so screwed...

:(

[CabalPowered]

24. Temperature anomaly maps from NOAA.. *graphic heavy*

7 Day Surface..


30 Day Surface..


90 Day Surface..


7 Day Sea Surface..


30 Day Sea Surface..


90 Day Sea Surface..

[BeHereNow]

27. We have NO right to do this to the rest of life on earth.

This is so distressing to me. ONE species is destroying
the entire planet for the BILLIONS of other species.

I have no doubt, eventually the earth will shake us
as a life form, but look at what we will leave behind for those left
to try and survive in the wreckage. Poisened water, soil and
air- toxicity everywhere, disasterous weather patterns.

I think about nuclear things rotting and wiping out
what ever is left eventually.
When there are no humans left, there will be no one
to maintain the nuclear crap we are so
fond of making. Eventually, the stuff will leak and
wipe out whatever has survived us.

The human race is the most destructive force in
the universe in my mind, and I fear our destructiveness
will continue to unfold long after we are gone.

BHN

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CrispyQ]

53. Our legacy,

"I fear our destructiveness
will continue to unfold long after we are gone."


-cry

[BeHereNow]

28. We have NO right to do this to the rest of life on earth.

This is so distressing to me. ONE species is destroying
the entire planet for the BILLIONS of other species.

I have no doubt, eventually the earth will shake us
as a life form, but look at what we will leave behind for those left
to try and survive in the wreckage. Poisened water, soil and
air- toxicity everywhere, disasterous weather patterns.

I think about nuclear things rotting and wiping out
what ever is left eventually.
When there are no humans left, there will be no one
to maintain the nuclear crap we are so
fond of making. Eventually, the stuff will leak and
wipe out whatever has survived us.

The human race is the most destructive force in
the universe in my mind, and I fear our destructiveness
will continue to unfold long after we are gone.

BHN

[noamnety]

30. Fair and Balanced Caption

"Melting sea ice can make it easier for Arctic shipping, but can have a devastating effect on shorelines and wildlife"


Um. Wow.

[Amonester]

31. Many seashores will need dikes, dams, and water pumps

someday soon, it seems...

Another source for short-term (and huge?) profits for the corporations
while they'll add even more pollution to the actual stockpile!

Umm. Wonder who will design and build that stuff. Dutch, maybe.

Construction employees will get how much? Below the minimum wage?

I'd be surprised if not.

Not to mention the damages from the increasing number of hurricanes.

And all this wouldn't spare the air we breathe....

We're screwed. :(

[progressoid]

32. I would love to blame just the bushes for this

But the reality is that during the 90's, America just basked in the glory of the ever rising stock market and technology boom.

Clearly the RW love affair with big business and oil is blinding them to reality, but Democrats need to regain the moral high ground and soon. No more pussy footing around to avoid pissing off some big contributor to the slush fund.

We can no longer afford to let the Rushes and Roves control this subject. We need to be vocal and clear about this. Americans need to know the consequences. Global climate change is going to mean a radical paradigm shift in our lives regardless of how we respond. Democrats should be at the forefront of tackling this and not just be the ones that ignore it a little less than the RW.

[Amonester]

34. Is it true President Gore had (the beginning of) a plan

to start dealing with this? If so, the robber barons delayed it's implementation for at least 5 years already (amongst many other 'improvements' they "short-circuited" in favor of their short-term insatiable greed).

If they think they'll be saved, they must have it all wrong, IMHO.

[ramapo]

44. Doubtful

Vice President Gore helped trash CAFE standards. The Clinton admin talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.

[Gregorian]

35. Hell, this has been going on for fifty years or more.

It's really all about population. But noone sees nor is willing to see that. And that doesn't matter anymore anyways since we're all here now. It's not new, but something that has been going on for a number of decades. And noone is going to stop it. Noone is going to start taking cold showers, as I say.

[Psephos]

38. You are right on the money about population being the ultimate cause n/t

[smirkymonkey]

60. Perhaps Mother Nature will see fit to correct that imbalance.

The earth's survival depends on it, unfortunately.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WCGreen]

48. Get thee to Venice and quickly....

Or settle for that crap in Vegas.......

[symbolman]

50. There is One thing we can do

and I had thought of this about 20 years ago in college, people scoffed at it but I think it will still work..

We need to create greenhouses all over the entire planet and stock them with as many species of plants (at least) from all over the planet.. sort of like a Noah's Ark scene..

When the shit hits the fan at some point we bust all the windows and see what takes ROOT as the plants live or die in the "new" environment.

That way if Cactus can now grow in Fairbanks along with other desert plants then we will have plants that will FUNCTION instead of dead plant life ALL OVER THE PLANET due to rapid changes.

If someone could sell that to the public and get funding we may be able to save at least some areas on Earth from total disaster - creating Zoos all over the planet with ALL species we can tend would also be helpful - if nothing else we need to freeze some eggs/fetuses, sperm, etc to populate areas with creatures that would normally come from another latitude..

There would be a lot of loss, but maybe a LOT LESS than if we didn't do something like this..

Wait until the earth is relatively stable (who knows, 100 years?) then Bust out all the windows, open the cages and see what lives :)

Of course by then Bush & Co could have outlawed WATER ("When Water is Outlawed, Only Criminals will have Water..") so everyone is a criminal, then set us all up in Corporate prisons, eating a bowl of oatmeal a day and earning "freedom" or 50 cents an hour, sitting at computer terminals working as travel agents for the Really Really Rich.. :)

Operation Noah's Ark: kinda catchy, with a new scientific twist on an old message, eh?

[aion]

51. Ave Gæ, morituri te salutamus! n/t

.

[bluedog]

54. question>Is cbc news and world international off U.S.stations?

I heard this morning.that today was their last day.....why....they said we could get their web site..but they can't or were not going to broadcast in the United Staes......again why?

[sakabatou]

55. And they say global warming is false...

[anotherdrew]

61. they'll say, the bible says god will destroy by fire, this is punishment

for our evil ways, before the last people die, they may be found living in a christian dictatorship hell.

[hatrack]

62. Nature bats last - which is basically all you need to remember

And what does the US offer? Why, the Magical Techno-Mystery Tour, masquerading as environmental action. :eyes:

[Viking12]

65. Blasphemy!!!

You anti-American!!! Technology will save us all!!!























Just in case: :sarcasm:

[wildcat78]

64. Fuckin Bush!

The Bushies want that the northern sea route open. It's good for business - just like change the rules of keeping time.

<Sarcasm>
To hell with the environment!
Whatever is good for business is good for us!
</Sarcasm off>

The Repukes can go and rot in hell!