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Osolomia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:13 PM
Original message
Senate poised to lift ban on travel to Cuba

15 September 2003
By Bob Cusack

For the first time, the Senate appears ready to pass legislation that would lift the 41-year-old travel ban to Cuba, despite strong opposition from the White House.

The move will raise the stakes in the debate about U.S. policy toward Cuba.

Over the objections of its leaders, the House last month passed an amendment to a Transportation-Treasury appropriations bill that seeks to lift the travel ban. It was the fourth time the House passed such legislation, but support for the bill had eroded in the wake of Cuba’s crackdown on human rights activists earlier this year.

Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.) will offer his Cuba travel amendment to the Senate’s version of the Transportation-Treasury spending bill when it reaches the floor in the next several weeks, according to congressional aides.

The White House has vowed to veto any bill that relaxes U.S. travel restrictions on Cuba. Last week, President Bush held a Rose Garden ceremony announcing enhanced enforcement of travel restrictions to Cuba. Bush said, “Illegal tourism perpetuates the misery of the Cuban people.”

More...
http://www.thehill.com/news/101503/cuba.aspx
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xray s Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. So strange
Edited on Tue Oct-14-03 08:18 PM by xray s
In the 70's, Nixon opened detente with the Soviet Union and went to China to visit Mao. Interaction seems like a good idea. Breaking down walls and all.

But the right is still afraid of little 'ol Fidel?

Nawh..they are just pandering to the extreme right Miami crowd.
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Osolomia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The 2004 Dem presidential candidates pander to the Miami extremists too

It's rather hypocritical to be bashing the Bushistas for something the Dem candidates do themselves and have nothing better to offer don't you think?
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. funny how corrupting a nation worked before, even with such a big one as
the USSR. and we can't corrupt cuba? silly little bush. sure we can! you just want to win florida using a lot of your brother's angry, illogical friends.
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diamond14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. bush*'s cuba policies are more failures...damaging to USA
businesses, as noted in the article....

"Other nations trade with Cuba, and their producers benefit from that trade. The U.S. policy places our farmers, workers and companies at an international competitive disadvantage. By some estimates, the United States loses out on an export market of nearly $1 billion a year.”"


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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is a nice little slap in Bush's face
Is his repub Senate being influenced by *gasp* Dems With Spines?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the news
on the impending Senate measure to life the outlandish travel to Cuba ban on American citizens. Bush may try to block it, but he'll pay a price politically, I would hope.

For readers who haven't heard much about Cuban views on US/Cuba relations, here's a piece I just found, answering the stupid bullying postures Bush has been affecting towards that island:

(snip) Faced with the failure of more than 40 years of economic and political warfare, the application of a blockade unequalled in history, the sanctions and draconian measures that have brought tremendous suffering to the Cuban people, the U.S. government is now lending itself to taking even stronger measures against Cuba.

The terrorist Miami mafia’s thirst for vengeance and its hatred are infinite and we are certain that it will pursue its electoral blackmail by demanding further action against Cuba. It would not surprise us if new aggressions will occur as we approach November 2004. Given that possibility, our only alternative is to have more confidence in our principles, in the strength of the Revolution, in socialism and in Fidel.

With the arrogance that characterizes him, President Bush noted in his speech that Cuba will not change by itself, but that Cuba has to change. The President of the United States should know that his words do not frighten anybody in this country. We decided 44 years ago to embark on the hard but also worthy road of sovereignty and independence and we are not going to renounce it.

The transition dreamed of by Bush and his Miami mafia acolytes will never occur in Cuba. Our country is in transition, yes, but in a transition towards more Revolution, towards a more just society, towards a society where men and women can attain the full development only offered by socialism.

Nobody should be mistaken, neither our enemies abroad nor their discredited domestic mercenaries. As it has done to date, Cuba has the total capacity and disposition to confront and overcome with intelligence, maturity, firmness and courage this or any other extravagancies and aggressive escalations on any terrain. Mr. Bush should know that, as always, any aggression against our country will founder against the dignity, steadfastness and integrity of the people of Cuba.

Havana, October 13, 2003

(snip)

http://www.enlace.cu/actualidadingles.htm


The Bacardi House
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-14-03 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pithy letter to the editor
(snip) Jose Marti, the revered poet of Cuba once wrote, "Only oppression should fear the full exercise of freedom." In an ironic twist these words now seem to apply to the United States with regard to its ban on travel to Cuba.

The freedom to travel anywhere has been an historic right of all Americans since the origin of the republic. Many argue that the founding fathers never specifically included this right in the original Bill of Rights because they thought it so ludicrous and unimaginable that any nation of free men would ever attempt to limit travel of its citizens. Such a presumption of power and attempted over-control by any government was probably anathama to men like Jefferson and Washington. And, as time has shown, it has certainly been the ploy of tyrants and dictators to try and limit the freedom of travel of their citizens. In the past, as a nation, we have roundly condemned other countries for such practices, and rightly so. Yet we, as free citizens, have allowed this injustice to be perpetuated in our own time and to our own selves.

The Supreme Court declared as "unconstitutional" the original Eisenhower ban on travel to Cuba, to their enduring credit. Yet, as they will, certain individuals in power, by their cleverness and cunning, evaded this dictate by then making it illegal, through treasury department regulation, for a U.S. citizens to spend an American dollar in Cuba. In so doing they insulted both the spirit of the law and the intent of the court. More importantly they abrogated a declared constitutional right. And please remember, men and women have died defending these rights and ideals, and still do.

To be made a federal criminal, to be prosecuted for traveling to Cuba, which involves spending money, is a travesty of the law. "Unpermitted travel" sounds a lot like the old Russian talk to me. To now hear national leaders use the term "illegal travel" is a bit disconcerting. It is to mimic the very behavior that we say we oppose in others.

The Cuba travel ban is an overreach and abuse of power by the federal government and was brought about by questionable and somewhat scurrilous means. Of such things tyranny is born.... and precious liberties lost. For as Marti noted, it is only oppression that fears the full exercise of freedom. (snip/)

http://havanajournal.com/politics_comments/P912_0_5_0/

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7th_Sephiroth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. last i heard
asskkkroft was prosecuting a 70 year old woman for visiting cuva through canada
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Was that the retired school teacher who went to Cuba
on a bicycling vacation with her friend, and discovered, when she got back that she was expected to pay a huge fine to the U.S. gummint?

Senator Byron Dorgan spoke about that case in the Senate. There was also a case of a man who wanted to return to Cuba to scatter his father's ashes there, was kept from going. There was also a man whose father was dying in Cuba, and the gummint here WOULD NOT let him go to his bedside in Cuba. There are tons of cases, all of them just pathetic.

Doesn't sound sensible. :dunce:

Oh, yeah. There's the case of an elderly couple who outfitted their boat, and sailed into the Caribbean, got caught in a storm, had to go into Cuba for repairs. They had the ability to fix it without buying anything, smf some Cuban men HELPED THEM.

They spoke with a U.S. official by phone, and was told that the HELP they received from the men had a monetary value, and there was some bogus charge they had on hand to cover THAT! The U.S. gummint also told them to leave their boat right there, along with their dogs, and return to the states immediately.

I can't remember what they did, ultimately, or if they got their dogs back. That's just way, way too much. Totally diseased behavior for a great big nation.
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. Dorgan's statement about Bushies latest anti-Cuba initiative
(WASHINGTON, D.C.) --- U.S. Senator Byron Dorgan (D-ND) described President Bush’s new plans to step up efforts to bar Americans from traveling to Cuba, as “counterproductive, especially for America’s farmers” and ill-advised. “It is obvious that politics, not any policy that makes sense, is driving the President’s plan,” he added.

Dorgan is a leading sponsor of legislation in Congress to lift the ban on U.S. travel to Cuba and for increasing the sale of U.S. farm products to Cuba. He also said he hopes to offer an amendment this fall barring enforcement of the current travel ban.

“This is an absurd policy,” Dorgan said. “At a time when the Department of Homeland Security still is unable to inspect most cargo on ships and airplanes, the President plans to divert its resources to try to track down and penalize American tourists and business men and women who travel to Cuba.”

“In addition the President is cracking down on Cuba travel in a way that will make it difficult, if not impossible for American farmers to sell their products in Cuba.”

“An example of what President Bush wants to do more of is the Administration’s action against Joan Sloate of San Diego, an American grandmother who went on a bicycle tour of Cuba. The Administration tracked her down and slapped her with a huge fine. This policy may be an attempt to take a slap at Castro, but in fact, it only hurts Americans.”

http://dorgan.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=213331
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Byron Dorgon should be able to get that amendment through
He has worked so hard on bringing this nonsense to an end for years.

I've heard some people think they could get a veto-proof majority in the Senate. Good, for many reasons. Would also love to see the pResident have to stuff his veto.

It's going to happen, soon, if not now. Republicans are involved in this, too. Only pandering and spite have prevented it.

From an article concerning Wisconsin would-be Cuba travelers:

(snip)"These things are concessions the president and the administration is making to the Cuban lobby and the Cuban exile groups in Miami for political purposes," Gonzalez said.

"You and I know, everybody knows, Bush was elected in 2000 because of Florida, and we all know 80 percent of the Cuban vote in Florida is registered Republicans. So it's payback time." (snip/...)

http://www.madison.com/captimes/news/stories/58851.php
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Interesting letter to the LA Times
<clips>

World Still Looks to Cuba as an Alternative Model

"Bush Steps Up Effort to Destabilize Castro's Regime" (Oct. 11), on the Bush administration's plans for further restricting visits by U.S. citizens to Cuba, quotes President Bush as saying tourists support an "illicit sex trade" encouraged by the Cuban government that exploits "innocent women and children." This is a falsehood. As visitors to the island for research and educational instruction over the last 30 years, and specifically once a year for the last four years, we can testify that this organized "trade" simply does not exist.

The vast majority of the Cuban people remain supportive of the present system. Cubans value their sovereignty, and most resent the increasingly overt way in which U.S. officials based in Cuba, including the head of the U.S. Interests Section, are instructing and materially supporting dissidents.

Even U.S. opponents of the current policy often claim that Cubans need to be able to enjoy the "benefits of capitalism." The results of U.S.-dominated capitalism in most of the countries of the Third World have not proved beneficial for the majority of their citizens. Fidel Castro is a figure paid attention to and admired in nations whose peoples are seeking alternative models for progress. In the U.S., changing Cuba is the objective of most of the leaders of both our ruling political parties; the disagreement is on how to do it. Why is this? They do not recognize that Cuba is a still-vibrant and credible challenge to an unjust and destructive world order.

<http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-le-bray15oct15,1,4109565.story>
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Yet another couple comes forward bearing the same information
so many Americans share with others when they discuss their trips to Cuba.

The letter from these two Cuba travellers is a prime example of what Bush is trying to choke off. He and his Miami Mafia-friendly cohorts don't want any more Americans coming back with real stories about Cuba. Makes the propagandists look downright evil!
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Lieberman and the cuban americans
Many of you might not remember that Lieberman first came to office by defeating Senator Lowell Weicker. Although Weicker was a republican he battled his own party over the Nixon mess and recently endorsed Dean for Prez.

Weicker led a group of legislators in an effort to stop the cuban embargo and travel restrictions. Lieberman campaigned (obviously funded by anti casto cubans) against Weicker's position on lifting the embargo or travel restrictions. It was almost a one issue campaign (as I remember.)

Weicker is one of a small group of republicans I always admired. We don't have anyone like him now. I've always thought if we had more republicans like Weicker maybe we wouldn't have such divisiveness in our country. Or...maybe I'm dreaming.

Anyway, I've always HATED lieberman for taking on Weicker and being wrong about the cuba issue.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank you Hamlette
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 06:21 PM by Mika
Thanks for reminding us just how sleazy some of our Dems can be (of course, repukes too). The list is long.

As I remember the Lieberman/Weicker campaign, Lieberman was out of money and was forum/special interest shopping for some campaign money.. Mas Canosa & the CANF were happy to oblige.
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guajira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Guess how Florida Senators Graham and Nelson will vote??
It would be shocking if either of them grew a backbone and voted against the Repuke Batistianos!! I don't expect to be shocked!
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Study details how Cuban exiles have aided key U.S. lawmakers
Edited on Thu Oct-16-03 10:13 AM by Say_What
Interesting article from the Dallas Morning News last year. Of course when they were contacted by phone, spokesmen for each denied that politics or contributions had anything to do with the way they voted---yeah, right :eyes:

<clips>

... The contribution amounts range from very large to small.

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., a member of the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, received $80,700 from individuals, corporations and Free Cuba PAC.

Rep. Henry Bonilla, R-San Antonio, who has consistently voted against trade with Cuba though farmers in his district have joined the Texas Farm Bureau in lobbying for it, received a total of $6,250.

Sen. Joe Lieberman, D-Conn., the 2000 Democratic vice presidential nominee, received about $40,400 from both individuals and Free Cuba PAC from 1999 to this February. He's a favorite among Cuban-Americans, who consider him a staunch foe of communism. During the 2000 campaign, Mr. Lieberman even visited the grave of the late Jorge Mas Canosa, the Miami leader of the anti-Castro movement.

<http://www.dallasnews.com/world/cuba/stories/052002dnnatcubapac.a72db.html>




On edit: and then there's Graham who, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, gets more dinero than Lieberman.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pubs/cubareport/appendix.asp
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. What we haven't known doesn't hurt us?
Edited on Thu Oct-16-03 10:17 AM by JudiLyn
This is truly ugly info. on these ex-Cuban magnates:

(snip) Ms. Thomas said that few foreign citizens play a more active role in seeking to influence U.S. foreign policy than the Bermuda-based Bacardi Martini rum company and sugar barons Alfonso and Jose Fanjul. The Cuban-born brothers, better known as Alfy (a Democrat) and Pepe (a Republican), are Spanish citizens but have homes in West Palm Beach, Fla.

Of the $1.8 million contributed between 1999 and 2002, the Fanjul brothers; their corporation, Flo-Sun Sugar; and Bacardi contributed $1.34 million, or 71 percent of the total.

"The debate on this delicate and important issue is being colored by people who can't even vote in this country," Ms. Thomas said. She noted that the contributions also serve to help them gain access to lobby for federal price subsidies."

What a damned pity!

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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Remember that well and Lieberman has since then, like other
corrupt pols, been bought-and-paid for by the CANF. He is still high on their payroll and panders to them every chance he gets. It is truly disgusting. The Free Cuba Pac, CANFs vehicle for funneling NED money to politicians, continues to be one of his top contributors.

<http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?cid=N00000616&cycle=2002>


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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. Here's a small set of photos of Frank Calzon
with Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright, and George H. W. Bush, yecch. Whatta grubby gusano!

http://www.cubacenter.org/about_us/cffc_supporters.html

Yeah, they're doing very well for themselves in his realm, at our expense.
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Osolomia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nothing for pandering Dems candidates to be concerned about eh!
Edited on Wed Oct-15-03 10:26 PM by Osolomia
Bush Bashes Cuba: The 2004 Election Must be Nearing
October 15, 2003

It's a tired old horse, but the Bush administration never tires of beating Cuba with its bully stick whenever the political opportunity arises. That's what President George W. Bush did with his announcement last week of a laundry list of tough new measures to clamp down harder on the U.S. embargo on Cuba.

These would include a crackdown on illegal travel, more thorough inspections of people and shipments going to and from Havana and the stemming of an "illicit sex trade" surrounding Cuba's tourism industry. Bush says his tougher line is "intended to hasten the arrival of a new, free, democratic Cuba." And if Bush truly believes that, he is smoking something more illegal than Cuban cigars.

… The Cuban embargo lost all validity a long time ago and retains only a vestigial function as a relic of the Cold War. But it remains a political evergreen as long as presidential candidates feel they need to pander to South Florida's Cuban-American voters.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-vpcub153495457oct15,0,1956811.story?coll=ny-editorials-headlines

This is the wrong time to close doors to Cuba
October 15, 2003

The departure of a freighter from the Port of Corpus Christi loaded with hard red winter bound for Cuba represents the best future for U.S. relations with Cuba, not the tightening of travel restrictions to the island nation announced this week by President Bush.

… The White House announced that the Department of Homeland Security would be instructed to increase surveillance and increase its questioning of the few thousand Americans who each year travel to Cuba under the exceptions allowed by the embargo. Many Americans, however, also get to Cuba illegally by going through third countries. Homeland Security, under the new guidelines, will start cracking down on this end-around, a nice repressive move that would be admired by any thug nation intent on restricting the free travel of its own people. Say, like Cuba.

Would it be too crass to say that there is a certain amount of politics here? Well, no. The tightened restrictions no doubt play well with the get-tough-with-Cuba crowd in Florida and New Jersey, key states in the 2004 presidential elections.

http://www.caller.com/ccct/editorials/article/0,1641,CCCT_840_2348772,00.html

Restrictions against Cuba not answer
Oct 15, 2003

… Unfortunately, the president said one of the first steps would be to step up enforcement of existing restrictions on the communist regime, including trade embargoes and a ban on tourism by Americans.

That is exactly the wrong approach to bringing freedom to the island nation, which has suffered for many years under the economic restrictions. These restrictions are hurting the people of Cuba, not Castro, who simply uses them to propagandize his people about how uncaring America is toward Cuba.

Freedom and democracy for Cuba lie along a different path, one which seeks to encourage free trade and the infusion of American ideals. Trade restrictions and tourism restrictions should be lifted rather that enforced.

http://yumasun.com/artman/publish/articles/story_7744.shtml

October 14, 2003
Foster dialogues about democracy in Cuba

The most logical way to bring about a country's yearning for democracy is to expose greater numbers of its people to the freedoms Americans enjoy. Permitting more Americans to travel to Cuba, in addition to letting more Cubans visit America, would go a long way toward this end. And besides, what kind of preparation does America need for a democratic Cuba? Existing trade agreements and diplomatic practices already work successfully throughout the world. Let them be models for a post-Castro Cuba.

http://www.mcall.com/news/opinion/all-editorial3oct14,0,581942.story?coll=all-newsopinion-hed

Tue, Oct. 14, 2003
Sen. Norm Coleman is wrong about Cuba

We, too, have visited Cuba for significantly longer periods than Coleman's weekend trip. We believe that engagement — trade and travel, and real dialogue between Cubans and U.S. citizens — is far more likely to have an impact on the situation than is continuing our current failed embargo. We have met with members of religious communities, academics, ordinary citizens and both Cuban and U.S. government representatives in Cuba.

In fact, continuing current U.S. policy seems more like cutting off our nose to spite our face than anything else. Minnesota farmers, travel agents and business people are losing opportunities; and researchers, academics, and ordinary citizens from Minnesota and across this country are being denied the opportunity to visit Cuba and draw their own conclusions about the country, simply in order to continue an embargo that no one else in the world supports. That's not improving the human rights situation.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/news/opinion/7005262.htm

Bush wrong to target Cuba travel
October 14, 2003

This is wrong in principle. Absent compelling reasons of national security, clearly not at issue in hapless Cuba, Americans should be free to travel wherever they want.

… Bush says he will instruct the Department of Homeland Security to increase its questioning and surveillance of American visitors to Cuba and "target" those going through third countries. So this is what Homeland Security is for? To monitor a free people's movements? Say it isn't so.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/opinion/article/0,1299,DRMN_38_2345111,00.html

Travel, trade, not another crackdown, can aid Cuba
Tue Oct 14, 2003

The Bush administration's reasoning for tightening travel restrictions to Cuba needs a reality check.

... Illegal travelers to Cuba (about a third of the roughly 200,000 Americans who visit annually) aren't propping up the Castro regime. Most of the dollars that end up in Cuba come from Americans largely, Cuban-Americans who travel there legally and from people in the U.S. who send legal "remittances" of up to $1,200 a year to family members and friends. The State Department reports that those remittances total $800 million to $1 billion annually.

If Bush is serious about fostering change in Cuba, he will end both the restrictions that keep most Americans from traveling to Cuba and the long U.S. economic embargo. The vast majority of Cubans I've met during reporting trips to the island long for a better life there. Many even say the Castro government could do a better job. But most of them like most Americans are patriotic. They rally to support their government in the face of the United States' decades-old effort to topple Castro.

Even many of the dissidents and so-called independent journalists I've talked to in Cuba oppose the embargo. While it offers false hope to the aging vanguard of anti-Castro Cubans in South Florida, the embargo holds little promise of ever actually dislodging the island's communist government.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=679&ncid=742&e=14&u=/usatoday/20031014/cm_usatoday/11900585

Top Senate Democrat slams US crackdown on Cuba
October 14, 2003

WASHINGTON, 14 (AFP) - The US Senate's top Democrat rejected White House moves to tighten sanctions on Cuba, calling instead for a policy on engagement with the Communist-ruled island.

"I think that it's important for us to recognize that as we trade with China, with Vietnam, with countries around the world with whom we have disagreements, that it's equally as important for us to find ways with which to do it with a country 90 miles (145 kilometers) off our shore," Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle of South Dakota said.

http://www.cubanet.org/CNews/y03/oct03/15e5.htm
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Eight great Cuba embargo/trade stories from just two days
Anyone who can't see that Americans aren't serious about getting rid of them would almost be refusing to see what's in front of his/her eyes, wouldn't you say?

Really admired this great remark from the Norm Coleman article:
"....ordinary citizens from Minnesota and across this country are being denied the opportunity to visit Cuba and draw their own conclusions about the country, simply in order to continue an embargo that no one else in the world supports."

I'll bet there is another reason Bush and his Miami Mafia want to lock us out of Cuba, although the Miami gusanos are free to come and go from Cuba as always. That is they fear a backlash coming at them when large enough numbers of Americans are coming back with first hand accounts of what they discovered to be true about Cuba.

Could foster a whole lot of bad feelings, to say the least.
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CShine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. This is the one issue where I support Bush, because............
.........I want to see Castro gone. I'm for pressuring Cuba to liberalize their policies before we ever go back to normal relations with them. Their record on human rights absolutely sucks. That needs to change now!

I don't care what other countries have had normal trade with them, the Cuban government is evil. That has to change, and as a solid supporter of human rights I am going to stand behind our government when we say that Cuba's political environment is 100% unacceptable. I will NOT accept the way they continue to abuse their own people.
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fla nocount Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. So, Cubans are treated worse than Americans?
Vets, the aged, the poor, the poor aged Vets? This country treats select populations abysmally. The self selected elite such as Shrub the 1st thinks of individual citizens as OFU's (one fodder unit).

This country has a long way to go in human rights before it can start pointing fingers. In fact, Cuba's strongest trading partners are those countries with the best human rights records. So Castro executed some guys for the armed hijacking of a ship full of tourists in Cuba to spend much needed MONEY. Hasn't been tried again since though and the tourists keep coming. I want to go.
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Osolomia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-15-03 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. The worst that human rights reports say about Cuba

Is that Cuba harasses and jails “dissidents” and “independent journalists”. What the propagandists don’t tell you, even though it is well documented, is that these “dissidents” and “journalists” are financed by the US government courtesy of US taxpayers.

Considering that the US arrests foreign financed “dissidents” too what “abuse” are you talking about that justifies denying Americans the freedom to travel and trade in an attempt to economically cripple the people of Cuba? How do you justify trading with any country that doesn't meet the standards you demand of Cuba?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Now newspaper articles are calling the "dissidents" out!
Rhetoric on Cuba self-serving


JUAN PUERTO, Immokalee
Published by news-press.com on October 16, 2003


Mr. Bush recently promised to apply more economic pressure on the 11 million people on the island of Cuba. This economic pressure will help Mr. Bush keep the approximate 360,000 Cuban-American votes he received in Dade County during the past presidential election.

The U.N. vote last year revealed that 175 countries voted for the United States to remove the Cuban embargo while only three voted to continue the embargo. The majority of American people, the U.S. Senate and the House of Representatives are also against the Cuban embargo. The only reason the U.S. embargo on Cuba has existed for approximately the last 40 years is that no U.S. president has dared to lose the Cuban-American vote in Dade County. The loss of the Cuban-American vote would mean that a presidential candidate would probably lose Florida’s 28 electoral votes, making it highly probable he would lose the election.

We need a president who has a backbone and does what is right and not what is in his self-interest.

Mr. Bush recently regurgitated what some Cuban-Americans in Dade County have been saying for decades. However, the president should be more assertive when speaking to the country on important issues. We the American people want to hear the facts about the issues and expect a just approach to these issues. When the Cuban-Americans say, and George W. Bush repeats, that the Castro regime puts dissidents in prison, they left out important information. Fidel Castro claimed that these dissidents were put in prison because they were getting their instructions and support from a foreign entity.

President Bush recently stated that the Castro regime gets paid in tourist dollars, but that it pays its Cuban employees with cheaper pesos. However, he failed to compare what the American-owned corporations in Cuba paid their Cuban employees, approximately 500 percent less than they paid their American counterparts who were doing the same job. The point is that the U.S. corporations would take the money out of Cuba and Castro redistributes it among the Cuban people. (snip/...)

http://www.news-press.com/news/opinion/031016letter1.html
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guajira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. You don't understand B*'s Cuba "policy"'
The Miami Republican batistianos threatened B* that if he didn't tighten the embargo they wouldn't vote for him!

B* then took more freedom from AMERICANS to pander to Miami Repukes.

BTW, who are you to decide what political environment is "100% unacceptable"? I would much rather live in Cuba where women have equality than many other countries in the world. I would rather live in Cuba where there are no homeless kids roaming the streets like many other countries.

If you think Cuba should be changed, you should go there and find enough like-minded Cuban citizens to change it!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. You put your finger on it!
Simple, direct, and 100% TRUE:

"B* then took more freedom from AMERICANS to pander to Miami Repukes."

Truly flagrant disrespect of the American population. Even many Republicans don't like this stupid outrage.
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Superfly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-03 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
28. Finally, a *decent* Cuban sandwich
....
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