Official Chinese Statement on the Launch of Shenzhou V

[Emperor_Norton_II]

JIUQUAN, Gansu, Oct. 15 (Xinhuanet) -- China's first manned spacecraft, the Shenzhou-5, blasted off from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in the northwestern province of Gansu at 9 a.m.
Wednesday.

The spacecraft, atop a Long March II F rocket, was piloted by Yang Liwei, 38, a lieutenant colonel of the People's Liberation Army (PLA). Yang, a member of the PLA's Astronauts Team, was trained at home.

The Shenzhou mission, if successful, will make China the third nation to send a man into outer space, following the former SovietUnion and the United States.

Update: �@JIUQUAN, Gansu, Oct. 15 (Xinhuanet) -- China's first astronaut Yang Liwei was reading a flight manual in the capsule of the Shenzhou-5 spacecraft and looked composed and at ease, sources at the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center said.

The spacecraft blasted off at 9 a.m. Wednesday and was on its way to its preset orbit.

[Maple]

1. Thank you!

OOooh go baby go!

[IndianaGreen]

2. A home schooled astronaut?

Yang, a member of the PLA's Astronauts Team, was trained at home.

I think something was lost in the translation, either that, or this guy trained by reading Popular Mechanics at home.

[Emperor_Norton_II]

3. Nothing's impossible

...though I suspect that the context is "not trained at Russian, American or European facilities."

[Maple]

4. Home = China

.

[Vitruvius]

5. Good for China & CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

And the best of luck to them in all such endeavors.

And a certain complacent superpower could certainly use some constructive competition -- in space and in so many other areas as well... If this helps shake us (as a nation) out of some of our complacency, that's all-to-the-good as well.

Again, congratulations and best of luck!

[w13rd0]

6. Fantastic...

...the more striving for the sky, the better. I look forward to the day we evolve into a genuine space faring species...

[Maple]

7. A space-faring species.....

now THAT is something to aim for......!

A glass raised to China tonight.....!

[angka]

8. smile

gonna go read arthur c clarke in celebration. congratulations!

[billbuckhead]

9. I wonder if Bush will congratulate them and then........

warn them?

[Maple]

11. Bush won't be warning China

about anything.

Or they'll send another one of his planes home in crates.

[kcwayne]

10. I hate to rain on everyone's parade

but this is a worrisome development. While China can be proud of the accomplishments they have made, it is foolish to believe this is a benign event with intellectual curiosity as its prime motivator.

What this proves is that China can now deliver ballistic missles anywhere on earth. China is a totalitarian state lead by a militaristic governing body, and this event is signalling a new escalation of the nuclear threat to mankind.

The US will certainly counter with increased military spending to contain China, and this comes at a time when our economy is being undermined by Chinese imports accelerating uncontrollably, fueled by the greed of the corporate West that is all too eager to discard domestic industry.

Toast if you will, but I fear you are toasting a dangerous and impoverished future.

[Maple]

12. I hate to inform you of this

but China has had ICBMs for years.

That is old news.

And no war has been declared...even tho they've been provoked on numerous occasions.

Hey...you've had 30 years to go back into space.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.

[kcwayne]

15. Incorrect

China has had ICBM development programs since the 1950's but it wasn't until the 80's that they developed the ability to fly 10,000 miles which would make them capable of reaching the US.

Even so they still only have around 10 of these missles, and their accuracy is highly suspect.

Of course, with the US willingly giving the Chinese all manners of technology that propel their ability to develop accurate guidance systems, it is clear that the numbers will US strike capable missles will increase.

This space flight is news because it signals the development of core competence in guidanance and control mechanisms that by definition apply to advanced ICBM capability, which the US will certainly move to counter in an escalated manner.

And we have been in space for 30 years, in case you missed the shuttle and skylab programs, not to mention exploration of Mars, Jupiter, Neptune, Saturn, and Pluto with unmanned craft.

[Maple]

39. Wow are you behind the times!

China has done unmanned earth orbit many times....and no one gave them the technology.

ICBMs have been Chinese property for ages.

Pretty much everything you use everyday was invented in China...

And no, you are not in space...you're killing time running space buses.

When you get to Mars...don't forget to stop in at Customs...they speak Chinese.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

62. Wrong.

China put it's first satellite into orbit in 1970. An ICBM warhead is basically a fractional-orbit satellite. Thus China has had the technology to build an ICBM capable of hitting anywhere on the planet for over 30 years.

[kcwayne]

64. Not necessarily

Launching a sattelite into orbital flight is one thing, targeting a specific location is another. I have attached some data on Chinese missle inventory:

You will notice that the ICBM category estimates range from 4 to 25 missles. There are several things one might deduce from this:

1) That China has no real interest in ICBMs.
2) The missles have not worked, and have a low cost/benefit
3) China is still working out the design

Given that China is estimated to have built as many as 1000 nuclear warheads, I would conclude that the interest in ICBM technology is high. The ability to orbit the earth and return to a precise location is demostration of their advances in control systems that are directly applicable to ICBM targeting and delivery. I would expect that the next time this table is published, there will be a much higher inventory of ICBMs. Especially since the military posture of the US is certainly giving (and without a change in leadership going to give) them serious concerns.


1. Chinese Land-Based, Longer-Range Ballistic Missile Deployments
By Selected Sources


Baseline Force Projections Alternate Force Projections
Nuclear Weapons
Databook Arms Control
Today 11/94 Jane's
1989 Report
System

----------------Deployments----------------
DF-21/21A MRBM 36 25-50 -
DF-3/3A IRBM 50 40-80 100 a
DF-4 IRBM 20 10-20 35 b
DF-5/5A ICBM 4 4-10 20-25 c


TOTAL 110 79-160 155-160+ d



Table Notes

a. 20 DF-3 and 80 DF/3A. Ascribes one warhead to the DF-3 and three warheads, or potentially three warheads, to the DF/3A yielding a potential total of 260 warheads (20 DF-3s and 240 DF/3As) for this system. Another source places the DF3/3A force at 100 missiles. See Kuang Chiao Ching, "Latest Development of CPC Missiles and Nuclear Weapons." According to a classified report by the U.S. National Air Intelligence Center obtained in July 1997 by the Washington Times, China currently deploys 40 DF-3/CSS-2 missiles at six field garrisons and launch complexes. However, this force is being reduced and replaced by more modern DF-21/CSS-5 missiles.

b. Ascribes three warheads or potentially three warheads to the DF/4 yielding a potential total of 105 warheads for this system.

c. Ascribes ten warheads or potentially ten warheads to the DF/5 yielding a potential total of 200-250 warheads for this system.

d. Another five missiles based on the CZ-3A SLV could be available as strategic weapons, with 10 warheads or potentially 10 warheads, yielding another potential total of 50 warheads for this system. A further ICBM, based on the CZ-4 booster, may also be available, with three warheads or potentially three warheads, yielding another potential three or more warheads for this system.

[mbperrin]

13. Hate to piss on your Post Toasties

But we are the people talking about militarizing space, attacking other countries on suspicion, pumping military spending to the sky.

Please show when China has fought an offensive war since the US has been a country.

Bush worries me! Those mail-spammin' Republicans worry me!

The Chinese don't worry me.

[MattNC]

18. that was his point

this move will only further U.S. agression in this area.

[Maple]

20. There won't be

any US agression in this area.

The world doesn't come to a halt because Bush doesn't like something.

Bush is very small potatoes on the world scene.

[kcwayne]

21. All space investment is military

Whether it is us, the Soviets, or the Chinese.

It doesn't matter that China has not fought an offensive war, because the US response will be to use the Chinese threat to escalate military spending at the expense of our domestic economy.

The Soviets had not fought an offensive war either when they started and excelled at space. The launch of Sputnik was a call to arms by our congress that sent us on 30 years of massive spending on the military.

So don't worry about the Chinese. They have been threatening Taiwan for decades. With a sufficiently sized nuclear deterrent to the US, they may just choose to go ahead and invade. Along the way they will probably nationalize all the US companies that have relocated to their homeland. Then the US companies that have abandoned us will call on their Republican buddies to rally the troops and let us die in large numbers to reclaim the property they so imprudently put over there. I guess as long as its someone else's kids, husbands, and fathers, you don't need to worry.

[Maple]

24. No it's not

The US is the only one that is keen on war.

Don't assume others think like you do.

Nobody wants you...simple as that.

The world does not revolve around you.

Get over it.

[kcwayne]

34. Nobody wants us?

Good, we can quit spending billions on foreign aid, and eliminate our military since nobody wants us. I'm all for that.

"No its not"
Brilliant analysis. Show me one space program that is not ultimately managed by a military wing of the government, and whose main technology components are not used in weapon systems.

"Don't assume others think like you do."
I don't.


"The US is the only one that is keen on war"
What horseshit. Are you really that ignorant? There are wars going on all over this planet, constantly.

"The world does not revolve around you."

I am not suggesting that the world revolves around us, I am pointing out what the US government response is going to be.

"Get over it."
Get over what? That you don't have any expertise or ideas to offer and can only result to insults? That's your problem, not mine.

[Maple]

36. Please do

and 86 the paranoia while you're at it.

Most space programs have zip to do with the military.

Canada...the EU... do not....only yours does really.

No there aren't wars going on all the time...a few minor local brushfires...and you seem to be behind a lot of them actually. Hmmm.

The US has nothing to respond with. Not even to N Korea that is mooning you, and waving nukes.

Get over the fact the world does not revolve around you, and that no one is keen to invade you. Get over the fact you are not the center of the universe.

Clear enough now?

[kcwayne]

48. What is clear enough

Is that you make statements without backing up anything you say, and that you clearly do not know what you are talking about.

It is clear that you hate Americans and the US.

It is clear that this conversation is going nowhere and all you have to offer are insults. So goodbye, say hello to Montreal for me, one of my favorite cities.

[kcwayne]

57. It's not military eh?

Quoted by Chinese media just before he blasted off into space, Yang said he would "gain honor for the People's Liberation Army and for the Chinese nation."

Too bad the "People's Liberation" Army doesn't liberate the billion slaves that toil away in poverty its the totalitarian regime.

[Emperor_Norton_II]

25. Yep, you're absolutely right

It's just like when the Soviets launched Sputnik and then with their nuclear deterrent launched an invasion of West Germany...

Oh. Wait. I forgot, that didn't happen. Silly me.

Unless you have something better than stock FUD to back up your assertion that China will now immediately launch an assault on Taiwan because they can keep the US at bay, I humbly suggest you zip it.

[kcwayne]

43. OK O'Reilly

Shut UP! Shut UP!! Go ahead and say it, you'll feel better.

The Soviets used the nuclear deterrent to play chicken over Cuba didn't they? As we have since learned, they were vastly overstating their nuclear arsenal, and knew they were vastly outnumbered. They were not axious to go up in a mushroom cloud, so an invasion of West Germany would have been stupid on their part. They were smart in that regard.

If you think that the US government won't go into a military spending frenzy by convincing Americans that the sky will rain Chinese nukes if we don't do something, then fine. You can pay my share of the taxes they will unleash on us.

Also, in case you had not noticed, this is a forum for the expression of ideas. I won't zip it, and I suggest you come up with some ideas of your own if you don't like mine. The O'Reilly approach to debate works best on www.freeper.com.

[Maple]

45. Apparently you are unaware

that the US gave up bases in Turkey so the USSR would give up a base in Cuba. No showdown at the OK corral happened except in your imagination.

Do you just swallow this stuff whole with your baby formula or what??

[Emperor_Norton_II]

47. It's like a old friend of mine used to say...

You do not have a right to an opinion, you have a right to an informed opinion. In this instance, you are not informed. QED, your kung-fu is weak, here endeth the lesson. Go out and learn a little, then come back.

You also seem to be backpedaling your official line. Originally you were claiming that the Chinese, using their newfound ICBM capabilities (and never mind the Long March series rockets which have been flying to orbit since 1970) would keep the US at bay while they invaded Taiwan. Now you seem to be claiming that Bush will use the threat of a Chinese invasion to continue his halfassed striving for global dominance, etc.

Can you please make up your mind? Is it sinophobia or classical DU cynicism?

[kcwayne]

52. Some information

Here is some information on Chinese Ballistic missle capability. If you bother to get informed by it, you will see that China's ICBM's are overwhelmingly regional in capability. These weapons are tactical.

http://www.cdiss.org/chinab.htm

With the demonstrated ability to perform manned space flight, China is confirming that it can operate strategic weapons, which is a large scale upgrade from what capabilities are identified in the above report.

I don't recall hearing propaganda that Chinese missles are aimed at New York. Once we start hearing that, then you know what is next. Maybe I am wrong, and the US government views China as an irreplaceable friend and trading partner. That would certainly go a long way to avoiding nuclear escalation, but count me as a cynic on that.

The points I am making are not mutually exclusive. The threat of Chinese agression will cause the US government to escalate military spending. The act of Chinese agression will increase it exponentially.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

59. You don't know what you are talking about!

This may be China's first MANNED mission, but it is by no means the first time China has put anything into orbit:

Launch of first artificial satellite, 24 April 1970. A CZ-1 rocket launched the first Chinese artificial satellite DFH-1 marking China's entry into the "space age".
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-00u.html

This is the watershed moment that you are trying to point to. Putting a satellite into orbit proves that you are able to put ANYTHING into orbit, and THAT is the determining factor for ICBM designs.

A nuclear warhead is simply a satellite designed to come back to earth after only a partial orbit.

So everything you are saying is over 30 YEARS too late.

Now, ask yourself why, if China is threatening agression against the US, and if they have been able to create ICBM's for 30 years, why they still do not have many of them?

Could it be that China IS NOT as agressive as you want to paint them? Could it be that the Chinese have enough trouble trying to run a nation of over 2 billion people, without increasing those troubles by getting beligerent with other nations?

Or could it be that you simply do not know what you are talking about?

[kcwayne]

65. Orbital launch is not equivalent to ICBM

The fact that you can throw something into orbit does not demonstrate the ability to guide it to a landing zone, which is the core technology of an ICBM. Even in the 80's the targeting capability of the Soviets was considered to be highly suspect, and they were 20 years ahead of the Chinese at that time. In fact, the first Chinese ICBM's were reverse engineered Soviets models.

I don't think I am painting the Chinese as necessarily aggressive to the US. They are agressive to Taiwan, which the US has defined a strategic interest in, and this could lead to conflict.

The Chinese will act in their national interest, and they should do so. They would be foolish to ignore US militarism.

However, the price that the entire world pays as more nations enter the high technology arena with nuclear weapons and the ability to guide them anywhere on earth is a return to living on the edge of global holocaust.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

69. They HAVE ICBMs!

If they have ONE, then they have the TECHNOLOGY to make as many as they want. It is not THAT hard to get a ICBM warhead to drop within a predictable area. In fact it is little harder than getting an IRBM warhead to drop within that area.

The difference between an IRBM and an ICBM is the ability to obtain orbital heights with a precision that puts the payload at a precise point in space. This is what you have to do with a satellite. You don't just throw it up there, it has to be where you need it to be or it is a multibillion dollar waste of money.

Once a warhead is in the correct orbit all that needs to be done to get it to land on a city is to slow it down at the right time. Once it reenters the atmosphere it is no different to an IRBM or smaller range missile.

The fact is China has ICBM technology already, and has had it for some time. This manned mission makes no difference to that fact AT ALL.

[kcwayne]

75. But it is that hard to accurately target

When the Gemini and Apollo programs were running, the recovery zone was around 100 square miles because they did not know with any degree of precision where the capsules would land. It was a real concern to be able to get to the location quick enough to prevent the embarrassment of drowning astronauts.

There are different physics involved for a controlled deceleration, but the ICBM has to deal with alot more variables than orbital placement. The missle has friction, wind, moisture, and temperatures to deal with that are not present in space. Advanced control systems make a huge difference in the ability to control the fall from space. That is why the Chinese are currently adding GPS to their missles so they can smartly guide the trajectory.

I am not an expert on ballistics. But I did work on a military project in the "Mutually Assured Destruction" arena. I know that wargaming models of destruction to the US from 1980 era Soviet missles considered wildly inaccurate strikes, such that a missle aimed at Washington DC might fall in the Atlantic, or somewhere in Pennsylvania.

The point is that I expect the US military to take the threat of Chinese ICBM's as one of increasing significance as they advance their technology in this area. If the Chinese start building significant numbers of ICBMs, I expect the military/government will become hyper about this.

Let's hope that you are right, and the military totalitarian regime that runs China will use their newfound wealth, technology, and power to remain peaceful and not escalate. The history of military regimes is not stellar in this matter. Time will tell.

[Bandit]

71. I agree with most of what you have written except for a few things

"I don't recall hearing propaganda that Chinese missles are aimed at New York"
I don't know how you could have missed this. It was a huge attack on President Clinton for supposedly selling high technology to China for Campaign dollars. Clinton re-authorized a waiver on high tech transfer for the Lorelle Group that Reagan first initiated so Lorelle could get their satellites into orbit with the Chinese as they were having problems with successful launches. It was on every Sunday talk show how now the US was being targeted by Chinese ICBMs now that Clinton had Sold them the technology. It was all bullshit. I agree the republicans are going to start screaming at the top of their lungs for more spending on military high tech to counter the Chinese threat. I think people will start waking up pretty soon and realize that they can only cry wolf for so long before we recognize the fact that there is no wolf. I think you are allowing yourself to fall into this catagory. You still believe there is a wolf. I don't.

[kcwayne]

72. Well the Chinese believe there is a wolf

and it is the US. Unless you think they wont' do what they think is necessary to counter the US, it would seem to be self evident that they will continue to create a higher level of force for defensive/offensive posture to counter our military. As they advance their technology in a highly public way, the spin machine will ramp up its efforts on the American public to fund more military expenditure.

This morning CNN stated that China had launched a "fighter pilot" into space. They didn't call him an astronaut or cosmonaut. I think it is a sign of more spin to come.

[Bandit]

76. The whole world believes and rightly so that there is a wolf

The US is a wolf have no doubt about that. Trying to terrify Americans constantly so they (republicans)can sink more and more of our national treasure into war is going to get tougher. The Chinese are no threat now or yesterday or tomorrow. They want satellite TV just like Americans have not to mention the scientific benefits of Space travel. We don't have to constantly feel every other country is a evil as the US so we have to stomp them out "Pre-Emptivly" or they will "Get Us" This pre-emptive behavior is very distressing.

[7th_Sephiroth]

56. war has its upsides

it increases technoligy development, and though people will die, when its all over the technoligy will be engineered for civilian use

[foreigner]

23. Pull your head out of the ground

Do you need to be reminded of Tibet? How bout their aggressive stance towards Taiwan? Mao Tse-Tung civil war? I'm aware that wasn't an aggressive war against another nation but it was aggressive to democracy and human rights. They were also invovled in the Korean war on the North Korean side, the North Koreans invaded South Korea.

[Maple]

27. Tibet?

You mean the tourist excursion?

When did you last hear the news?

[foreigner]

31. official status

Tibets official status is occupied. The leader, the Dalai Lama, is in exile, it's Parliamentary government is in exile.

"At the time of its invasion by troops of the People's Liberation Army of China in 1949, Tibet was an independent state in fact and law. The military invasion constituted an aggression on a sovereign state and a violation of international law. Today's continued occupation of Tibet by China, with the help of several hundred thousand troops, represents an ongoing violation of international law and of the fundamental rights of the Tibetan people to independence."

http://www.tibet.com/WhitePaper/white1.html

from the exiled government of Tibet.

[Maple]

32. Call your travel agent

and stop believing the CIA.

You think you'd know better by now.

[foreigner]

37. You can go to Cuba too

I'm aware you can go to Tibet. You can go to Cuba too (well not US citizens). Before the collapse of the USSR you could go to Moscow.

I'm not seeing your point about not believing the CIA. The link I gave is the exilde gov't of Tibet, not a US gov't site. Your the first person I've ever heard argue that Tibet isn't occupied, not including the Chinese gov't.

[Maple]

40. I've been able to go to Cuba all along

I'm a Canadian, and we don't make war on tiny unarmed islands.

Tibet is running tourist tours.

[foreigner]

41. So am I

But I wouldn't say Cuba is unarmed. They could not compete against the US but they're not unarmed.

[Maple]

44. Cuba isn't armed

and yeah they could compete against the US.

Boxcutters was all it took the last time.

[foreigner]

49. Then how did Cuba shoot down that plane?

It wasn't long ago, 95 or 96 I think, that Cuba shot down a private US passenger plane. They used box cutters and won a battle, a small battle that was a surprise attack. How long did was it before the US removed the Taliban from power in Afghanistan? Not long and Cuba wouldn't last longer if they tried something and the US decided to respond with force.

[SahaleArm]

58. Why defend the PRC?

Tibet is occupied, the PRC controls the territory, the tours, and the tourists. It's still very resitricted, with 14-day tourist visas, and limited ports of entry. Most Tibetans were forced to flee to India or Nepal including the Dalai Lama. The Tibetans who stayed live a grim life, an occupied life.

[Exultant Democracy]

77. That is so false and misleading

The province known as Tibet was incorporated into China during the early period of the Qing Empire. The Qing stabilized the region and protecting them from Mongol invasions, they also supported the Dalai Lama in his consolidation of control in the region.
The Chinese flag has 5 stars on it. Each the stars represent the major ethnic groups that have been part of china for centuries; Han, Mongol, Muslim, Manchurian, and Nepalese.
I know that this goes against traditional liberal dogma, but Tibet has been part of China for a long long time, and it will always be part of China.

[DoNotRefill]

54. The invasion of Tibet was defensive????

That's an interesting "interpretation"...

[Resistance Is Futile]

19. Stop spewing talking points

China already has ICBMs and its leadership is neither expansionist nor does it desire a global empire. At this moment, the United States is greatest threat to world peace and anything that anyone does to level the playing field is a good thing.

[kcwayne]

29. Is that your equivalent of O'Reilly's SHUT UP

As I said in another post, China has a small number of ICBM's (<10) that can reach the US, and only a couple of launch pads. This move is an escalation.

Leveling the playing field with a nuclear giant is not a good thing. I take it you are not old enough to have been concious from the 50's to the 80's when the world could end because an idiot like Bush has a vast nuclear arsenal at his command. The US will be returning to an escalation of nuclear readiness, endangering the entire world.

The jury is out on whether China desires a global empire. They are currently destabilizing the entire world economy on the backs of $100 a month labor, dumping products in all world markets with government subsidized pricing, and holding their currency at rates that insure that no western economy can fend off the onslaught to their industry.

[Maple]

30. It is a launch into space

Only Americans see everything as war.

And I was born in 1946.

Bush can go play at his ranch.

The jury is NOT out on China...China has stayed isolated for thousands of years...there has never been a move to global anything.

And they are looking after themselves on world markets...just as the US does.

Concern yourself with your own back yard for a change, and stop annoying the neighbors.

[kcwayne]

35. Agreed

"Concern yourself with your own back yard for a change, and stop annoying the neighbors."

As George Washington said when he left office "Beware of foreign entanglements".

I would love to be able to direct the government to do just that.

[DoNotRefill]

55. Then why is it building a "blue water" navy?

That's certainly not defensive in nature, it's a strictly offensive weapon used to project power far from it's shores.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

61. Because with modern missiles...

a brown-water navy is more of a last line of defense. In order to prevent US navy aircraft and missiles from attacking mainland China, the Chinese navy must be able to confront it in the open ocean BEFORE it gets within range of China.

Pretty much the same reason the US has one...

[DoNotRefill]

66. Ummm...hate to point this out to you....

but we can totally blow them out of existence entirely with weapons in the US, we don't need to move the navy off-shore to do so. Same deal with our aircraft....we can bomb them from bases in the US, just as we bombed Iraq from bases in the US.

You seem to agree that the reason China is building a blue water navy is to confront the US...

[Devils Advocate NZ]

67. Then why does the US spend so much on it's navy?

If it is obsolete, there is no point in having it is there?

The fact is an invasion comes from the sea. Confronting invasion forces at sea is a desirable defensive capability for any nation, which is why the US maintains its obscenely expensive navy, isn't it?

As for confronting the US, well isn't that a given, considering the US is the only nation interested in invading other nations at the moment?

Doesn't China have the right to defend itself against the US, or do you believe, like PNAC, that only the US has the right to self defence and the projection of power?

[DoNotRefill]

68. Because it's useful to PROJECT force far from US shores...

Returning to a state of cold-war with two superpowers threatening each other is INFINITELY less appealing than returning to a world where there are NO superpowers at all.

the world already has one too many superpowers....the LAST thing we need is another one.

[jbm]

38. I read something about this...

several weeks ago and I agree with you that there is reason to be concerned. Somewhere on the net there is a historical study that showed that the world is perfectly happy to allow a superpower to exist in their midst as long as they perceive that superpower to be a gentle giant. The minute they feel ideologically threatened,they begin the process of challenging that power. China has the resources to challenge us,and this is a step in that direction. I don't believe it was solely for the sake of adventure.

[berry]

50. I'd like to read that study--and it sounds logical.

But it's hard to argue that the US is seen as a "gentle giant" these days. "Demented, dangerous giant" is more what the world seems to see the US as (at least as long as Bush* is in, and maybe the wariness will remain even after he's out).

I'm inclined to think the Chinese space program comes from complex motives, including prestige, fear of being targeted as the US's next enemy, competition in development of new technologies, etc.

Oh--and to weigh in on the Tibet side-discussion--sure, Tibet is not a war-zone, and tourists are welcome, but it is still an occupied country, and there WAS violence done by China in achieving that. I suppose China wanted Tibet in view of its hostile relations with India. That may have changed in the meantime, but maybe not. I think China is closer to Pakistan. I don't always like China's foreign policy. But in general, recently, I think China is behaving with admirable dignity and restraint in the face of American arrogance. Right now, I trust the Chinese more than Bush* to keep things from getting out of hand in the world. So--bravo! on the launch!!

[Ohio Dem]

14. Do you have a link for this?

I'd love to send a link to a friend who would be very interested in this.

[Emperor_Norton_II]

16. That one in particular, no

I'm getting most of my news from mailing lists. Dig around news.google and you should be able to find it, though.

[Ohio Dem]

17. Okay.

Thanks.

[imax2268]

22. A Toast

Good Luck and God Speed...

:toast:

[Emperor_Norton_II]

26. I'll second that

May their journeys be long and fruitful, and their parachutes always work! :toast:

[damnraddem]

28. Let's hope they make it OK.

If the U.S. is going to abandon space exploration, at least someone will be active.

[imax2268]

33. You know what get's me...

is that we(well...NASA)haven't taken a shuttle to the moon yet...I think they should have a mission to go back to the moon...orbit a few days and then come back...what a proof positive that we are the shit...!
I think it's time to go back...and then on from there...MARS...!

[kcwayne]

53. The shuttle can't go to the moon

the shuttle was designed as a service craft for a space station that would launch solar exploration missions. The space station was axed, which left the shuttle without a real mission.

If we are going to go to the moon again, we need a different spacecraft to do it with, and there is no funding for this.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

63. What would make me laugh...

Is if China develops a moon mission, goes to the moon, lands near the old US landing site, pulls up the US flag, and plants a Chinese one, all on live TV!

Would that give NASA a red face or what?

[Chico Man]

73. I'll put money down on that

China is on the moon in 15 years. Settlements, etc..

[jbm]

42. flame me...but....

I really do believe that there is more then just adventure at stake here.


http://fas.org/spp/guide/china/military/index.html

[Maple]

46. I don't recall anyone

calling it any 'adventure'

People don't spend billions for a fun thing.

It's a race...and unfortunately you're out of it.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

60. All of those have to do with satellites...

and China has been putting satellites into orbit for over 30 YEARS. This MANNED mission is little more than a "prestige" ploy, basically trying to show the world that they are one of the worlds most advanced nations technologically.

[Ivory_Tower]

51. Link from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/10/14/china.launch/index.html

[derby378]

70. China - it's about time

China as a nation is much older than either America or Russia. They were the first to develop printing presses and gunpowder, among other things. I even read that 500 years before Christ, one of their scientists wrote in his notes that China just missed inventing photography because of technological limitations, although Chinese inventor Fo-Ti did introduce the world to the first camera obscura at that time. So yes, I'm happy China finally pulled it off.

Of course, you know the folks at the European Space Agency are probably a little green with envy. First Yuri Gagarin for the Soviet Union, then Alan Shepard for the United States, now Yang Liwei for China. So who's going to be the first ESA astro/cosmo/taiko/spacenaut?

[jwcomer]

74. this mornings post

This was front page news for every newspaper in NYC except the NY Post. Their entire article on this historic event was three sentences on page 19. Folks, won't it be great when Murdock owns all of our newspapers.

-Walton

[derby378]

78. New York Post

Here's a letter to the New York Post
Yo, ain't worth the paper it's printed on
Founded in 1801 by Alexander Hamilton
That's 190 years of continuous fucked-up news

Public Enemy, Letter to the New York Post (1991)

[guruant]

79. Chinese in space...

Kudos to China. I just hope that NASA keeps on its feet and keeps America ahead in space technology.