NYT: Bible Course Becomes a Test for Public Schools in Texas

[DeepModem Mom]

Bible Course Becomes a Test for Public Schools in Texas
By RALPH BLUMENTHAL and BARBARA NOVOVITCH
Published: August 1, 2005


HOUSTON, July 31 - When the school board in Odessa, the West Texas oil town, voted unanimously in April to add an elective Bible study course to the 2006 high school curriculum....(h)undreds of miles away, leaders of the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools notched another victory. A religious advocacy group based in Greensboro, N.C., the council has been pressing a 12-year campaign to get school boards across the country to accept its Bible curriculum.

The council calls its course a nonsectarian historical and literary survey class within constitutional guidelines requiring the separation of church and state.

But a growing chorus of critics says the course, taught by local teachers trained by the council, conceals a religious agenda. The critics say it ignores evolution in favor of creationism and gives credence to dubious assertions that the Constitution is based on the Scriptures, and that "documented research through NASA" backs the biblical account of the sun standing still.

In the latest salvo, the Texas Freedom Network, an advocacy group for religious freedom, has called a news conference for Monday to release a study that finds the national council's course to be "an error-riddled Bible curriculum that attempts to persuade students and teachers to adopt views that are held primarily within conservative Protestant circles."

The dispute has made the curriculum, which the national council says is used by more than 175,000 students in 312 school districts in 37 states, the latest flashpoint in the continuing culture wars over religious influences in the public domain....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/education/01bible.html?hp&ex=1122868800&en=ca634381bfcb9311&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[jmm]

1. My favorite line

"When the type of urban legend that normally circulates by e-mail ends up in a textbook, that's a problem," Mr. Chancey said.

[bluestateguy]

2. The Lemon Test

See Lemon vs. Kurtzman (1971), which established this test to evaluate whether or not a law violates the first amendment's establishment clause.

1) Must have a secular purpose.
2) Must not favor one religion over another, OR religion over non-religion.
3) Must not excessively entangle government in religion.

[graelent]

3. I hate it that these people are usurping a legitimate class

While it needs to be strongly secular, there are very valid reasons for a Bible studies class in high school. It is almost impossible to fully understand some of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries great works of literature without knowing the religious parables those works are referencing. Moby Dick, East of Eden (hell, any Steinbeck), Shakespeare and many others all benefit from the reader being familiar with biblical stories. The trick is teaching them as stories and not as the word of God. But I want to be very careful not to cast so wide a brush that a Bible studies class is 100% outlawed from public schools.

[Lecky]

4. Hmm...I got through High School just fine without Bible study

[Fire Walk With Me]

59. And you'll go to hell for it. Happy?

Kidding, joke, laughter.

[shraby]

6. Bible studies do not belong in public schools.

If a person wants to use the bible as an adjunct to his/her literature studies, they can do it in college when they are old enough to use their judgement on what is related to literature and what is religion. The bible has no business in public schools. If the parents want the children of school age to learn more about the bible stories, there are churches that teach those lessons.

[HockeyMom]

15. I spent 12 years in Catholic School

and we didn't read the Bible, but now they will in PUBLIC school?

[Igel]

17. Does the same hold for other mythologies?

We studied Greek and Roman, even Native American myths in high school.

It would have been a real bummer reading some of the Greek literature we were forced to sleep through without having it in previous grades.

On the other hand, in freshman literature, it was fairly obvious that some of the students *didn't* study such things. In the week that we had for Homer, the professor had to cover such things as who Poseidon was. As it was, many were out to lunch when we raced through the Inferno: there wasn't time to actually cover the Biblical allusions, the historical allusions, *and* actually discuss the work itself.

[graelent]

27. If you want students to succeed at literature

You should teach them some of the stories great literature derives from, ie, the Bible. Again, it should be reading the expulsion from Eden of Adam and Eve as a creation story and not as the word of God, but the literature that students are taught references the Bible too much to say students don't need it.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating this as a required course, just as an elective, taught by an English teacher, that uses Biblical stories to expand on literature the class has already read or will be reading in the future.

And sorry, I have never seen a church offer Bible study as a series of stories that relate to modern literature.

[renaissanceguy]

32. I had an English teacher that did this just fine.

He was secular himself, but he wanted us to understand the bliblical allusions in other literature.

However, he did piss off a lot of fundies when he called the bible "just another piece of mythology."

I have no problem with a bible class, as long as electives for other belief systems are introduced. How about a World Religions course?


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.20383992

[knitter4democracy]

41. Me too.

That's why I did it in my World Lit class. We covered some of the ancient texts just to make sure that everyone knew what the references were.

[DeepModem Mom]

7. Good point. I took "The Bible as Literature" in college - an excellent...

and quite valuable course.

[deadparrot]

8. The Bible as Literature would, IMO, be extremely interesting,

especially for anyone interested in Western literature, culture, history, or philosophy.

You don't have to look at it as a religious document, but as a historical object, one that has been responsible for a wide range of far-reaching effects.

[Coastie for Truth]

55. I went to a Presbyterian oriented college

(majority Roman Catholic and Jewish) - and we studied the Bible as "a view of western history" and "a stage in classical literature" - with references back (in world history) to all of Europe's wars and to the Crusades and the Inquisition, etc.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. And it can be taught as literature.

At the high school level the bible should certainly NOT be the focus of an entire course. What other literature book is taught at that depth (an entire class on one book) in high school? On the other hand, my senior english class included selections from the bible and it was a great class (and a great teacher) and I remain enriched by that experience. As you note, you cannot understand much of western literature if you don't get the references.

We are under assault from so many fronts. It is a bit discouraging. I find myself day dreaming of emmigration. Is there some reason why the devout cannot satisfy themselves with forcing their own kids to attend bible school? Why do they insist on forcing the rest of us to share their nonsense?

Here is a radical thought: keep your damn bible class in your damn church where it belongs.

What would Jesus do?

[XemaSab]

47. The Bible's huge

it's really a collection of books. It's about as much material as the complete Shakespere.

Someone above suggested a World Religions class, and at the high school level, you'd never learn anything about any of them. I took a world religions class in college that never really actually made us read anything... the whole class was just big-picture concepts.

I think if you were going to get anywhere meaningful with the Bible, a whole course would be appropriate.

[Warren Stupidity]

62. Yes it has a lot of words in it.

Which is why, at the high school level, it is not appropriate to teach an entire course on it, regardless of the 1st amendment issues. You also would not teach a course on the entire works of shakespeare. This is high school.

Much of the bible is not great literature and much of it is not really needed to understand the references in western literature. So I'm a little confused about your point. Perhaps you are suggesting that religion ought to be taught in public school?

[XemaSab]

64. I'm not suggesting religion be taught

I'm saying that at a high school pace, it would take the whole semester to get through Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, some of the historical and prophetic stuff, the Gospels, and some of the Epistles.

I agree that it could be taught very badly, and in an indoctrinary manner, but I also think it could be a really good class if you put the material in a cultural, historical, and literary context.

[Maven]

13. Many good English teachers integrate Bible stories as texts in a secular

fashion.

Mine did, and I agree that the study of the Bible as a source narrative is valuable.

But a separate class is unnecessary, unless the purpose is sectarian.

[graelent]

28. I think a separate class in needed

So that students who do not want to read the Bible can have that option. But then, such a class should also be strictly sectarian.

[knitter4democracy]

40. I did, and it was a Catholic school.

When I taught World Lit, we did an Ancient Texts unit on the Torah, the New Testament (I know, not that ancient), the Koran, and the Rig Vedas--all of which were in the crappy text book for once. We would've done Greek and Roman mythology, but that'd been covered the year before.

One of my students was (is still, I suppose) Muslim, and it was amazing to hear her recite the Koran as it is meant to be heard. She even wrote it out for us to see what it really looks like. I'll never forget that day in class--I saw many eyes opening on how beautiful Islam is and how what they've heard isn't the whole truth.

[Autumn Colors]

20. No way

Not with MY tax dollars will something like this be taught in public school.

You want your kids to study the Bible, send them to Sunday school or evening Bible studies classes at your CHURCH that is funded with its members private donations.

You want a course in public high school that teaches about a religious text? Fine... then the same course must also teach about the Koran, some Buddhist writings, and why don't we throw the Book of Mormon in there for good measure?

No EFFING way will my tax dollars pay for a Bible class in my local PUBLIC high school.

I live in a blue state so I'm not overly worried about this happening, but if it does, rest assured, I'll be the first one to start organizing a local revolt.

[graelent]

29. Again, churches do not study the Bible as literature

Churches study the Bible as "The Truth", not a series of narrative stories. You would be depriving students of learning where and how to reference the thousands of allusions made to the Bible in modern literature. A Bible as literature class does not teach religion, it gives students a deeper understanding of why and how authors created their text.

Any serious study modern literature (not for every study, but every student who want to seriously study modern literature) must learn to reference the Bible.

This is not teaching religion, this is teaching a series of stories that have shaped literature since the 15th century.

[Autumn Colors]

36. Fine

then make these types of courses available at the university level only - where they're paid for with tuition.

Someone mentioned students not having sufficient background knowledge? Require a prerequisite to the course then so that everyone starts out on the same page.

I still say that anything relating to a religious text does NOT belong in a public school that I fund with my tax dollars.

Obviously you and I disagree on this. Let's leave it at that.

[XemaSab]

43. I think it could be a really neat interdisciplinary class:

English and History/Geography/Social Studies, but in order to be such a class, you have to have a teacher who is willing to admit that a lot of the stories are metaphorical, or are ganked from other cultures, and the fundies would never allow a teacher who, say, introduced the Sumerian flood story into the classroom, or discussed the influence of Egyptian mythology on the story of Jesus.

God forbid.

[Warren Stupidity]

That is comparitive religions

and the fundies would blow a gasket.

[saigon68]

44. These are Hateful Fundie Nut-Jobs out to REMAKE amerika.

[Coastie for Truth]

54. Thomas Jefferson's Abridgement of the Bible

<><><>

There are several versions of Thomas Jeferson's Bible - which (according to Unitarian Universalist Theologian Forrest Church, Sen. Frank Church's son) is the New Testament stripped of "blind faith" and "superstition" and "miracles".

Forrest Church's edition is at http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0807077143&itm=3.

with the UU discussion of Jeferson's Bible. http://www.2think.org/tj.shtml

I hate to think what he fundis would think of this abridgement.

[jobycom]

5. Texas. It's like a whole nother country. Sigh.

[mbperrin]

10. Wanna know something funny? This story is not even mentioned

in the local rag. I know Newman- good guy, tough mentally and rigorous in his course.

Raymond Starnes, in the story, responsible for picking the course, is retiring in November, by the way.

And since this course is the King James Version, rather than the Geneva Bible, which would be the one Shakespeare knew, gonna be tough to make all those links!

Don't know why anyone thinks Odessa is religious, though; there are and always have been about 3 bars for every 2 churches....

The real religion around here is football, anyway.

(Yes, THIS is the Odessa of Friday Night Lights)!

[DeepModem Mom]

12. Interesting! Thanks for a close-up view, mbperrin. nt

[murielm99]

25. Have you always lived in Odessa?

I loved that book. I liked the movie, too.

I understand that Odessans resented the hell out of the book. Do they still feel that way?

[mbperrin]

60. I've lived here (except for college and some work years away)

all my life. Now the answer to the other question is a little tricky, because there are two high schools here, and I went to the "other" one, and people over here on the west side thought that the book was absolutely right on and great, but many or most of the Permian die-hards were really ready for a lynching of some sort.

Saying all that, when the movie folks came to town , they were so nice and so generous with casting extras and so on, that I think everyone pretty much sees it as a plus for the town now!

BTW, the only trustee to vote against the Bible course is Bill Rutherford, who actually taught the course the only other time it was offered, in 1979. He says it is a huge can of worms, and that proselytizing by class members could not be stopped.

(For more silly stuff about Odessa, look up our giant jackrabbits, our reproduction of the Globe Theater, and Stonehenge. (It's wacky here, but sometimes fun!)

[Rainscents]

11. Maybe we can it this way.

Once whole state of Texas become Bible tumper... They might actually learn something from the Bible and become LIBERAL! Because, Bible is God and Jesus words and they're a true liberal with their words. Feed the hungers, help the poor, etc...

[XemaSab]

48. Yesterday in church the text was

"As you do to the least of these, so you do unto me."

(It's also the "sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell" verse!)

The teenagers went to a reservation in Nevada last week to paint houses, build porches, etc, and they got up and talked about their experiences.

Good stuff.

[Doremus]

14. American madrassas

Rocking back and forth and chanting will be next.

Catch the young and impressionable while they're still pliable. Fill their heads with superstition, their hearts with hatred and send 'em out into the world ready to lead us into Armageddon.

Lord, protect us from your disciples.

[TahitiNut]

16. Can the FAITH of these people be any WEAKER?

This constant infiltration of coercive governmental systems to propagandize a brain-damaged, cartoonish version of "Christianity" betrays a complete absence of faith in any form of higher Truth or God. Never and nowhere have I ever seen such a demonstration of an arid conscience.

If these people had the slightest comprehension of faith, love, and conscience, it's light-years away from this:

[LeftyMom]

19. Hey, could you please warn people before you post an image like that?

Some of us are getting ready for bed. I for one have a hard enoughtime getting to sleep without images of flaming monks burned into my retinas.

[TahitiNut]

45. "an image like that"?

For me, it's an image of Conscience and Commitment to Morality. :shrug:

[Erika]

18. Texas yearns for theocracy

Do away with the Consitution. The Bushbot idiots enabled by W.

[genieroze]

21. These people are idiots.

[wli]

22. oh crap not more goose-stepping neonazi biblethumping fascist Klansmen

This is just the first step. They'll be burning atheists at the stake by this time next year, and throwing shackled homosexuals on the pyres along with us.

[estherc]

23. Read ezekial 23:20

I think they should be allowed to teach the bible as long as they're required to read this passage: For she doted upon their paramours, whose member is as the member of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.

Are they going to be teaching that kind of shit in the schoolhouses of Texas. Its all about two sisters who went to Egypt and acted like whores.

This is a very useful verse to know to pull out when people start talking about banning obscene books etc. Ask them if the bible should be banned. There's lots of bad shit in there but this really stands out. I haven't read much worse than donkey dongs and horse jism in modern literature.

[XemaSab]

49. Ah yes,

studying the etymology of the word "faggot" firsthand.

You forgot the coming Amerikkkan Inquisition.

And Poland.

[genieroze]

24. I wonder if they will teach the real words of Rabbi Jesus?

"After my departure there will arise the ignorant and the crafty, and many things will they ascribe unto Me that I never spake, and many things which I did speak will they withhold, but the day will come when the clouds shall be rolled away, and the Sun of Righteousness shall shine forth with healing in his wings" ~Jesus; The Gospel of the Holy Twelve

[Bridget Burke]

26. Check out the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools

Here's there website; actually, this is their "links" page:

www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp?pg=links

Wallbuilders (who want to take America back to its Christian roots), Creation Evidence Museum, Creation Science Evangelism, etc.

These people definitely have an agenda. Truly secular teaching of the Bible is the last thing they want.

If one wants to show Biblical influence on literature, mention it in when that piece (or period) of literature is being taught.

[graelent]

30. They have an agenda, but only is you use their curriculum

A secular class focused on the Bible as World literature can and should be offered.

And hey, it might annoy the religious wingnuts even more...

[Bridget Burke]

35. This is the group pushing for Bible classes in Public schools.

Teach literature--including sources & influences. Christian & other mythologies would be covered.

Yes, the wingnuts would be appalled if a truly secular course was offered. But that's not the goal of the people behind this campaign.

[XemaSab]

50. I think ignoring the Bible

won't make them go away, and sharing our interpretation is the best way to counter it.

[Skittles]

31. IGNORANCE IN TEXAS SCHOOLS

STOP THE PRESSES

[GOPBasher]

33. "The sun standing still"??????????

You have GOT to be kidding me. :banghead:

[priller]

34. That refers to an incident in the Old Testament

where a battle is raging, the Israelites are winning, but the day is growing long. So they pray to God and he makes the sun stand still while they finish their slaughter.

That's what the mean, basically, that God temporarily caused the Earth to stop rotating. Not that the sun stands still at all times.

[Ambrose]

53. he just pulled the magnets off the poles. LOL n/t

[Ambrose]

37. Texas

I've said for years that my children will never set foot in Texas as long as they are underage. Creeps me out just thinking about that place.

[Bridget Burke]

38. The Odessa schools do not represent the whole state of Texas.

I'm from Houston, where we've got an exceptionally diverse population. Rumor says that parts of Illinois are not as liberal as Chicago & its suburbs.

By forbidding Texas to your children, do you realize that you're making the state more attractive to them? Watch out when they want to go to Baylor. Or Texas A&M.

[Ambrose]

39. They can go anywhere they want...

As long as they realize there Dad will never visit the place. Sorry you live in Texas :)

[Bridget Burke]

42. I'm doing fine in Texas.

Sorry you're so close minded.

[Coastie for Truth]

56. Is Odessa near CRAWFORD, Midland, and Waco? NT

[mbperrin]

61. 20 miles from Midland; town mottoes:

Midland: a good place to raise your children.

Odessa: a good place to raise hell.

[XemaSab]

51. There are counties in south texas

that are bluer than San Francisco.

It's a big state with a lot of different people, some excellent birding, and some OFF THE HOOK mexican food.

[Ambrose]

52. maybe...but still...

there are to many bad laws, excessive capital punishment, murders, and more. Let's not forget the news stories a few years back about cops along an east-west highway that would pull people over and drop them in jail so they could keep their cars.

Also, my wife has relatives in Texas that I would never want to associate with.

To each his/her own...I for one prefer to stay as far away from Texas as I can. ;)

[Bridget Burke]

58. The Texas Freedom Network is the reason this is news.

This "secular" Bible curriculum has been adopted in 37 states--including Illinois. The effort has been ongoing for some time.

What's new here? Strong opposition--by Texans!

As a national debate rages over the proper place for religion in public education, more and more public schools are adding elective courses in Bible literacy. When taught with credible materials and from a nonsectarian perspective, such courses are an appropriate and even laudable way to help students learn about history and literature. However, a report commissioned by the Texas Freedom Network Education Fund and prepared by Dr. Mark Chancey reveals that the country’s most aggressively marketed - and perhaps most widely used - Bible curriculum fails on both counts.

www.tfn.org/religiousfreedom/biblecurriculum/

Of course, avoiding scary in-laws is a good reason to avoid a state.

[stepnw1f]

46. Religious Extremism

They can't get everyone to come to their churchs, so they force their way into the legislative process to bring their insanity to everone else.

The American Taliban.

[Zhade]

57. "documented research through NASA" - BULLSHIT.

Utter bullshit.

There is NO proof this ever happened. NONE. AT ALL. PERIOD.

STOP MAKING SHIT UP, ASSHOLES!

[Deja Q]

63. I am a Christian. Public schools are PUBLIC, not PRIVATE. Keep it out.

Ditto for ANY religion.

Allow them all. Deal with them all. Or have none of it.

Period.

Can't thse jokers do ANYTHING?