Breaking: Plane skids off runway in Toronto, in flames

[greyl]

CNN

[Hokie]

1. Looks bad

The picture looks like it is from one of the freeway cameras that they have all over the 401 and QEW.

I sure hope they had a chance to get out. Lufthansa 737 with 200 persons.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Watching - fuselage is in flames - Lufthansa - 200 passengers on board

:(

On edit: It's much bigger than a 737 - MSNBC saying it's a 767 or 777...

[havocmom]

3. Bad day for air travel

Plane from Tucson to Dallas/Fort Worth had smoke and was evacuated upon landing.

[intheflow]

41. My boyfriend in is grounded in CT because of this.

His company grounded all air travel by employees until they determine if it exploded on purpose or by accident. :wow:

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. Looks bad

I hope they were able to get the passengers out.

[malaise]

5. Hope those poor people got out

before it burst into flames. How horrible.

[rainbow4321]

6. 20th anniversary of Delta crash at DFW is today

.. and the same word is being used for this Toronto crash..microburst (but you all know early reports can go)

[merwin]

7. Headline just showed now up on all the major networks websites

no details though

[malaise]

8. oronto police reports just stated that it is Air France

and it was landing. Either way it is awful. Must be tons of students and peeps returning from vacation.

[sabra]

9. Air France jet skids off runway at Pearson airport; no word on injuries

<<SNIP>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8801092/

Air France jet skids off runway at Pearson airport; no word on injuries

BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 4:43 p.m. ET Aug. 2, 2005

TORONTO - A plane was on fire after apparently running off the runway at Toronto's Pearson International Airport, CP-24 Television said Tuesday.

The television showed pictures of flames and smoke from the fuselage of the jet, apparently a large, wide-body jet. CNN said it appeared that there were 200 people aboard.

“This would appear to be a very serious accident,” said Paul McCarthy, a former airline pilot, speaking Tuesday with MSNBC Cable's Chris Jansing. "The rain may cause great directional problems.

There was no immediate word on casualties.

Police said the plane was an Air France passenger jet that was trying to land when it ran into trouble.



<</SNIP>>

[rainbow4321]

11. News conference at 5 pm EST

200 passengers/crew on board. Paris to Toronto

[linda d]

12. passengers

you don't see any evidence of passengers on the ground. there's no ambulances/emergency personnel other than a couple of trucks. i suspect they had no chance to get out. what a horror.

[Pirate Smile]

17. Air France - waiting for disgusting John Gibson quote to show up on

Media Matters. :eyes:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

63. 5 to the noggin?

"If we lose five planes, so be it. That means that all other planes will be better off. And frankly who cares, because it was Air France, after all."


JG is an ass of ever growing proportions.
Pretty soon, there won't be a toilet big enough to handle his shit. Not even within the environs of Faux.

[brentspeak]

10. Were the passengers and crew hopefully able to evacuate? n/t

[malaise]

14. I suspect those at the back got out

as the tail section broke off. My fear is that those in front were not likely to make it. So painful.

[yodermon]

13. streaming coverage here

http://www.pulse24.com/Plugins/CP24Live/popup_player.asp?speed=56

[Catherine Vincent]

15. I hope there are no casualties.

[Renew Deal]

18. I wouldn't count on that.

There's a lot of smoke.

[Bluebear]

20. I fear there may be many catgirl

Huge plane, probably windshear? Things don't look good. :(

[HEyHEY]

16. Shit

Watching on CBC newsworld

[malaise]

31. Good news

lots of survivors got off using emergency exits.

[darkism]

19. There are survivors, according to MSNBC and Toronto radio n/t

[gardenista]

22. I hope there are many, and that they're not too injured. nt

[HereSince1628]

23. I hope that turns into many survivors

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

21. We just flew home from there on Sunday

Glad we didn't succumb to the family's entreaties to stay longer! I hope things aren't as bad as they look.

[K8-EEE]

24. OMG!!! Talk About A Close Call

Prayers for all on the ill fated flight :cry:

[linda d]

25. there are survivors

the local abc affiliate in nyc just reported there are survivors and some were found wandering the highway.

[applegrove]

26. Let's send our prayers, energy, vibes, the strength of our ancestors,

one and all to Toronto.

[DemoTex]

27. Air France. Strong thunderstorms near CYYZ (Toronto).

[darkism]

28. "Two busloads" of survivors. See MSNBC.

[progressivebydesign]

37. Thank God... I hope everyone got out okay. n/t

[pitohui]

29. air france flight 358

reports of confused passengers wandering out of the gully, there will be some survivors

[Obamarama]

30. This is the plane that crashed in Toronto....A340-300

Just communicated with someone whose brother works at Pearson. He reported that he did not see any of the escape chutes deployed from the exits. This is not good news.

[Renew Deal]

33. The Airbus is a great plane

at least on the inside. I heard someone else say that emergency doors were opened.

[malaise]

34. Apparently lots of people with broken legs

which suggests many jumped.

[Up2Late]

39. Can you imagine the scandal this will cause if the Airbus escape...

...system prove to have been defective?

[Obamarama]

42. I wasn't thinking of it being defective...

I thought it might be a sign that there weren't people alive inside to activate them.

Just heard reports that indicate some DID deploy, and that many pax seem to have gotten out alive.

[Up2Late]

32. Oh great, looks like the Fire is getting bigger...

I wonder what happened, Brake failure? Runway Over-shoot (due to weather)? Computer failure?

Most Airbus Jets are very Computer dependant (fly-by-wire).

[malaise]

36. Many passengers picked up on highway 401

lots of survivors. Looks like blinding rain and perhaps a lightning strike. Aircraft was too high says a friend of a passenger and landed really hard. Aircraft broke in half.
<edit-sp>

[Flagg]

35. No doubt the scumabgs over at freerepublic are celebrating

[ronnykmarshall]

38. I was wondering if they were.

[Hav]

40. .

Actually I don't see them doing it.

[Up2Late]

52. If you happen to be over their, you can remind them more than 1/2...

of the passengers could have been Delta or Alitalia passengers, due to "Code Sharing" arrangements.

The last time I flew to France, we flew an Air France Jet, even though we booked the Flight with Delta, and another time to Italy on Alitalia.

[KamaAina]

43. In the midst of all this, a definite "What the...??!!" moment

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/02/pearson-plane050802.html

At mid-afternoon Tuesday, a spokesperson with the Greater Toronto Airports Authority said lightning was causing technical problems with the airport's lightning-detection system.

Let me see if I've got this straight. They have a lightning detection system that breaks down around lightning?!

Ye gods. It would be funny if it weren't so tragic. :(

Also news conference now scheduled (remember, the 'c' is silent up there) for 6 PM EDT.

[Lisa]

115. I nominate this for "most Canadian news story of the week"

On the plus side, nobody was killed.

But ... you have to wonder what kind of people would order equipment like that. Our government? Or someone picked by our government? I'm relieved that there weren't any fatalities, of course ... but all we need now is a Royal Commission investigating the very issue you pointed out, KamaAina.

[muriel_volestrangler]

44. Oh no, my cousin and family

were due to fly from Paris to Toronto today - I don't know what airline ...

[pitohui]

45. it looks like the passengers did get out

this was air france 358

hope your cousin and family are well

[HereSince1628]

53. Msnbc says crew members also got off. I think that's a good sign

It seems unlikely crew would be evactuating with passengers left on board.

[beam me up scottie]

54. We're here for you, Muriel.

Good thoughts and well wishes for your family.

[muriel_volestrangler]

93. Thanks, bmus

The reports are looking hopeful for everyone. It's also possible they were on a different airline - they had said their flight out had gone via either Montreal or Quebec, I can't remember - which, as far as I can tell from the web, looks more like an Air Canada flight. Still don't know - we're trying to get news from relations in Canada to make sure.

[darkism]

46. Unconfirmed reports saying EVERYONE survived.

As relayed on MSNBC. Again, unconfirmed.

[pitohui]

47. may it be so EOM

.

[Lena inRI]

49. Yipppppeeeee! Thank you God!

:grouphug:

[ronnykmarshall]

59. I hope it's true! Thanks big G!

:bounce:

[RebelOne]

114. No, thank the flight crew for their quick action. n/t

[90-percent]

51. Stock Tips

Any newscasters giving out stock advice based on this tragedy yet? It's time to buy what?

-85%

[Straight Shooter]

74. OMG. darkism, your post gave me chills

Tears in my eyes. All survived? There are still miracles in this world.

[Billy Burnett]

48. Wolf Blitzer is an incredible idiot...

Just heard him ask a Toronto area firefighter if the foam being sprayed onto the plane by fire trucks was to put out the fire.

:think: :wow: :banghead:

[Up2Late]

56. This Just In! Wolf Blitzer IS, In Fact, An Idiot!

What a Morain

[rainbow4321]

109. King of Idiots

He asked a survivor over and over where and when the flames started vs when the passengers got out and kept pressing for specifics <how many minutes, exact location>..til the survivor finally said "I was too BUSY RUNNING AWAY from the plane, actually, so I have no idea"!!

Then the other CNN interviewer asked if the crew had the doors open in 90 seconds like they are supposed to during an emergency and if the people seated by those doors did what is required, blah, blah, blah...almost like since no one DIED, they are looking for things that went "wrong" to report.

[Gormy Cuss]

61. I heard that too.

The fire captain didn't know how to respond for a second there. No, Wolfie, we just like using the neat equipment on our trucks to make a big mess.
:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

What a nasty fireball. If the reports that everyone got out alive were true, it is a miracle. Confirmed stories are more in line with two busloads which would be about 80 people, and the plane carried up to 290 passengers.

[trof]

68. Jesus, the sucker is STILL burning?

30 minutes after the crash?
Good god.

[elehhhhna]

86. next thing ya know all the highrises will fall down simultaneously

"from the heat".

It could happen.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

50. major storm in area, and possible

fight between the pilot, the autopilot and the weather.

They skidded off the runway, and burst into flame.
up to 290 people on board. unk. if any survived. Same as to any survivors.

[LisaL]

55. netscape says all 200 people feared dead.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/default.jsp

[greyl]

57. ? "Survivors taken to Toronto hospital" nt

[malaise]

58. cnn is very wrong but no surprise

they usually get it wrong.

[linda d]

76. you got that right

miles obrien was going on and on and on about the cause being windshear and some pilot friend was yammering on about everyone but the pilot/crew being responsible. then a witness came on and described conditions that indicated other causes.

oh. never mind.

[Up2Late]

60. I guess they haven't Checked with CNN Television

They just had a graphic that said "Survivors taken to Local Hospitals."

AND they have One of the Passengers on the Telephone RIGHT NOW!

[Puzzler]

64. Yes...

... I'm listening to one of the passengers right now (Roel Bramar)... apparently the second person out of the plane.

According to him, it seems that people survived the impact OK. The question was if everyone got out OK.


-P

[rodeodance]

65. CBC reporting there are NO fatalities.

[rodeodance]

67. pilot and co-pilot are alive also.

[rodeodance]

69. survivors being interviewed (canadian broadcasting)-via cnn. edit to

correct-- via msnbc.

[NeoConsSuck]

70. A Wonderful Miracle!!

God Bless the Canadians and French!!

[RebelOne]

87. Miracle? No miracle. Just quick thinking by the crew. n/t

[malaise]

88. unbelievable efficiency

clearing that aircraft before the explosion. Congrats Canada and Air France - I am impressed. 14 minor injuries noted so far - amazing.

[greyl]

71. Same with Fox and Global no fatalaties nt

[ronnykmarshall]

75. Oh thank god!

I'm tearing up now.

I hope this is true.

Let's hope the people that were hurt are not serious.

[HereSince1628]

77. Great!!

[trof]

62. The A-340 is an electronic, computerized "marvel".

Many pilots don't like it because in some situations the flight control computer "knows best" and cannot be overriden.
I imagine a lightning strike, as has been reported, would be devastating to the aircraft systems, including braking.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

66. The F-14 had a slight programing problem

Apparently, when inertial navigation, crossing the equater caused major systems disruptions until they fixed the computer code.
Then again, we don't use the F-14 anymore.

[rodeodance]

73. survivor said all lights went out just before crash.

[malaise]

81. latest reports say

everyone survived. Amazing, but very pleasing indeed.

[Up2Late]

80. One of 2 of the Eyewitnesses, a Commercial Pilot, said the Jet was...

...hit by Lightning as it was about 1/2 way through its roll-out. He said, and some surviving passengers just confirmed, that the Jet appeared to lose ALL power at that point.

Are the A340 (Breaks, thrust reversers, etc.) fully electric power dependent? (a.k.a. fly-by-wire)?

[trof]

82. I think so.

But I've never flown one.
Just Boeings for me.

[Puglover]

84. The bus

is a great airplane. But man, do they make some funky noises.
:)

[Up2Late]

106. What do they call the little wing-tip wing-lets?

:shrug:

The CBC Video shows one of them was apparently sheared off, sitting next to a chain-link fence, a few feet from the main wreckage.

[mn9driver]

102. Don't know about the A340 specifically, but

the A320 depends on fly-by wire technology for just about everything. The electrical system and computer control systems are extremely redundant. Even a lightning strike shouldn't have caused a total electrical failure-Airbuses have been struck before many times without a failure of this magnitude.

That being said, if they did somehow lose ALL electrical power, it would cause them to lose control of the nosewheel steering, brakes and thrust reversers (assuming a design similar to the 320).

[Up2Late]

108. I've only ever flown on one or two Airbus Jets, and prefer not to...

...after seeing the video from one of the Paris Air shows from around 1990, when they did a low speed, fly by at about 100 ft, then, I think because of a Software bug or Computer failure, the Jet stayed right on course, plowing into the tree tops at the end of the air field.

Or the story about the Airbus that misinterpreted an "out of service" Air Approach beacon in Columbia, and when it picked up the next working beacon, it corrected the jets course, right into a mountain, and the Pilot couldn't override the Jets Computer.

[mn9driver]

113. Digressing, but

The airshow video (not Paris, but somewhere in France) was a good example of how the Bus software protects against pilot errors: the pilots of that aircraft deliberately disabled the "Alpha floor" protection so that they could fly an extremely high angle of attack (in this case, very slow and very nose high) fly by.

At the end of the runway, with the engines at idle, the pilot saw the trees. He pushed the power up, but modern fan engines take a few seconds to accelerate from idle, so he pulled back on the stick. On a normal airplane, the video would then have shown us a fully stalled airplane crashing out of control into the trees. Instead, the Airbus did what it could-it maintained controlled flight, waiting for the power (that it would have automatically added much earlier if Alpha floor had not been disabled). It hit the trees wings levl, still under control. The trees wrecked it of course, but nobody died. Without the flight contol computers it would have been a very different story.

The Colombia incident involved an American Boeing 757. The problem involved a database glitch that allowed the navigation system to select an NDB with the same identifier as the one they wanted, but located in a completely different part of the world. It was dark, bad weather, and the pilots didn't catch the error, which would have been obvious if they had looked at the proposed track before they executed it.

Even when they were headed for the mountain and the GPWS was screaming at them and they were trying to climb out of the trap, they would have made it if they had retracted the speed brakes, which had been deployed earlier to help their hurried descent. They hit about 200 feet from the top. We now have EGPWS, which uses a GPS synchronized terrain database, to give us more warning in situations like this.

Hope this helps,

[Up2Late]

117. Thanks, I hadn't heard those "reasons" for the accidents

For some reason, they don't publicize the results of the investigations when it turns out to be "Pilot Error."

Seriously, I think I will feel a little better about my next AirBus flight knowing these things.

So, You think you're going to apply to fly the new Mega-Jumbo AirBus?

What is it, the A380?

[Up2Late]

72. What the Hell? CNN just had a Close Up if the mid-section of the Jet

Burning, than they cut back to the Lame Long-shot

[rodeodance]

78. well, something is burning in the distance (msnbc).

[rodeodance]

79. EMS said to be on the scene in less than a minute.

[Puzzler]

83. All survived!

According to a news conferrence at Toronto Airport.

-P

[SlavesandBulldozers]

101. great news

:thumbsup:

[RamboLiberal]

85. Web Story and pics from CTV

An Air France jet burst into flames after skidding off the runway while attempting to land at Toronto's Pearson International Airport in a thunderstorm.

Peel Regional Police say a pilot and a number of passengers were taken to hospital.

Sgt. Glyn Griffiths told the Globe and Mail that some injured passengers were seen walking around the crash site.

"A pilot has gone to hospital and they were picked up on the 401 and a number of other passengers were wandering around the area so we're trying to head them off,'' said Griffiths.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1123014388624_118423588/?hub=TopStories

Hoping all got out. This is reason I hate flying in thunderstorms. Microbursts and this kind of accident.

[Endangered Specie]

89. edit

because conflicting reports on casulties.

[ronnykmarshall]

90. CBC reports all OK!!!!

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/02/pearson-plane050802.html

:bounce:

[DemExpat]

92. Thanks! I've been waiting for this great news....

:scared:


:bounce:

DemEx

[ronnykmarshall]

98. 309 people

they really did a great job getting out of that plane.

:toast: To the crew!

[Endangered Specie]

91. delete, wrong story.

1 year old, thanks for point that out.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

94. i have heard "no fatalities"....nobody dies...yet

[DemExpat]

95. Different flight?

DemEx

[ronnykmarshall]

96. Wrong story

that was from October 2004.

[Puzzler]

97. Wrong date! Wrong news story! (nt)

-P

[malaise]

99. that's a different crash

The seven died when the Ghana-registered MK Airlines Boeing 747 crashed in Halifax, Canada, at about 0355 local time (0755 GMT) on Thursday.

[daleo]

107. That reads quite differently than the other stories

I guess it will become clearer with time.

On edit - yeah it was a different event.

[Canuckistanian]

100. Strong Thunderstorm in Toronto

[Up2Late]

103. Now CNN graphic says 14 Minor injuries

That's not too bad.

Oh and by the way, MSNBC is using the CNN Video Feed, but with about a 20 to 30 second delay.:wtf:

Oh, and they just showed one of the Wingtips, sitting separated from the rest of the Jet. Must have been sheered off, which would be make sense, seeing the how the fire looks fuel driven.

[malaise]

112. poor MSM

they now have to deal with no deaths and the amazing efficiency of both the French crew and Canadian airport emergency staff. Life is hard.
edit -sp

[panzerfaust]

104. Remember this one?

"The last major jumbo jet crash in North America was on Nov. 12, 2001, when American Airlines Flight 587 lost part of its tail and plummeted into a New York City neighbourhood, killing 265 people. Safety investigators concluded the crash was caused by the pilot moving the rudder too aggressively."

Unlike Flight AA 587, AF 358 seems likely to have been a true accident.

It is amazing and wonderful that there seem to have been no fatalities.

[Endangered Specie]

105. From the sound of it...

they ran out of runway before they stopped and crashed into the vicinity.

My question is why the hell did the pilots land in such bad weather, Ive been on flights that have been delayed over moderate (heavy, but not severe) t-storms.

[hyphenate]

110. It appears to be good news:

Toronto crash reverberates in Winnipeg
Last Updated Aug 2 2005 05:21 PM CDT
CBC News

Flights were diverted to Winnipeg Airport Tuesday afternoon after a passenger jet crashed and burst into flames at Pearson International Airport in Toronto.

The Air France jet skidded off a runway while landing and burst into flames beside a major highway as rush hour began. All 309 people aboard the jet survived the ordeal, according to fire officials on the scene. More than a dozen people suffered minor injuries.

http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View?filename=mb_toronto-crash-20050802

[Up2Late]

111. You're may need to update your signature graphic...

...Sadly, we just passed 1800 (1806) U.S. and 2000 total "Iraq Coalition" soldiers.

[hyphenate]

116. Yeah

I know. I'm going to be changing it sometime this week. I may quote Joe Biden when he said (tonight on TDS) that Bush didn't give a damn about the American people. Oh, so very true.

[90-percent]

118. thank God

Thank God everybody survived!

Canadian Karma rocks!

-85%