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NYT: Bush Remarks Roil Debate Over Teaching of Evolution

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 10:46 PM
Original message
NYT: Bush Remarks Roil Debate Over Teaching of Evolution
Bush Remarks Roil Debate Over Teaching of Evolution
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: August 3, 2005


WASHINGTON, Aug. 2 - A sharp debate between scientists and religious conservatives escalated Tuesday over comments by President Bush that the theory of intelligent design should be taught with evolution in the nation's public schools.

In an interview at the White House on Monday with a group of Texas newspaper reporters, Mr. Bush appeared to endorse the push by many of his conservative Christian supporters to give intelligent design equal treatment with the theory of evolution.

Recalling his days as Texas governor, Mr. Bush said in the interview, according to a transcript, "I felt like both sides ought to be properly taught." Asked again by a reporter whether he believed that both sides in the debate between evolution and intelligent design should be taught in the schools, Mr. Bush replied that he did, "so people can understand what the debate is about."

Mr. Bush was pressed as to whether he accepted the view that intelligent design was an alternative to evolution, but he did not directly answer. "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought," he said, adding that "you're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, and the answer is yes."

On Tuesday, the president's conservative Christian supporters and the leading institute advancing intelligent design embraced Mr. Bush's comments while scientists and advocates of the separation of church and state disparaged them. At the White House, where intelligent design has been discussed in a weekly Bible study group, Mr. Bush's science adviser, John H. Marburger 3rd, sought to play down the president's remarks as common sense and old news....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/03/politics/03bush.html
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bush cannot comprehend science - he is a proto-man, has not evolved
like the rest of us.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. he is a proto-man, has not evolved
MORE LINKED TO THE LOWER ANTHROPODS
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. If anyone doubts humans evolved from apes,
Edited on Wed Aug-03-05 06:37 AM by entanglement
they should take a look at Chimpy
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blindpig Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. easy on the apes
I suspect that they disown the whole lot of us. As for bu$h, he gives credence to the concept of de-evolution.

bu$h is DEVO.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Ah YES THE AWOL CHIMPANZEE
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. "I felt like both sides ought to be properly taught."
Edited on Tue Aug-02-05 11:08 PM by BattyDem
That statement proves the intent of * and the RW: they want Christian beliefs taught in the classroom. To them, the two sides are the Christian side and the non-Christian side, so how can they deny that it's all about religion? And what about other religions? Will their "side" get to be taught in public schools as well? :eyes:

Exposing children to different ideas is not a problem. Exposing children to RELIGIOUS beliefs in a PUBLIC school is a BIG problem!


I love this part:
Asked again by a reporter whether he believed that both sides in the debate between evolution and intelligent design should be taught in the schools, Mr. Bush replied that he did, "so people can understand what the debate is about."

Excuse me, Pinhead ... people ALREADY KNOW what the debate is about: will a child in a public school be taught science or faith and do parents have a right to keep their children from being exposed to religious beliefs while attending public school?



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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. i.e. he's endorsing a full-bore takeover of schools by the religious reich
The courts, federal government, BOE, etc. are gone. Now the schools, too.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Why is it that the poorest students always think they know more?
That moran couldn't even get through school with decent grades with the best test-takers and paper-writers money could buy.
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Sub Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. maybe the answer to all of this
is to just have classes on world religion.

make them as mandatory as math, english & science.


i think it would probably do the world a bit of good.


but that's just my two cents.
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lumpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I agree teach all philosopies
and all religions. I've always thought this wouldbe a great idea.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Classes on "World Religions" or "Comparative Relig." would not fly
I agree that comparative religions classes would be a great addition to the high school curriculum; also classes that explore the importance of religious belief in our nation's history. Properly taught, these subjects would encourage critical thinking and understanding.

However, such proposals will never get off the ground because to ultra-fundamentalists "religion" means only one thing: Christianity and THEIR interpretation of it. In their worldview, Christianity doesn't "compare" with anything. It's the One True Faith and everything else is just a mistake at best and Satanic at worst.

Likewise, any discussion of the importance of religious belief to our nation's history would end up revolving around God's Divine Plan and Manifest Destiny, which is not the point we are trying to make, is it?

Make no mistake, religious belief has been very important here -- from the Pilgrims onward, small bands of believers came to America to establish the New Jerusalem; Quakers and others founded communes and utopian communities; and the social justice aspect of Christianity has had a workout from the earliest days of the Abolition Movement right on through the Civil Rights Movement of the 20th century and beyond. Understanding all of this and more would allow high schoolers to gain some perspective on our current climate -- but perspective is the last thing ultra-fundies want them to gain.

Too bad, isn't it?

Hekate
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mare Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. I was wondering about that for a while now...
So if I'm getting this right, there are no classes on religion in US public schools? I wasn't sure about that and I just couldn't figure out how "intelligent design" could even find its way into US biology classes if there's religion classes to take care of it and to provide for both sides to be taught in school.

I don't know how it is in other European countries but here (Germany) we've got religion classes taught all through school. You don't have to attend if you don't want to because they also offer some philosophy classes instead. I also don't really remember it being "Bible study groups", more like discussion groups. Of course about christianity but most of the time also about all kinds of other religions and their belief systems.

That system seems to be working fine here, so yeah, I agree that it might work for the US, too. And maybe it would stop the whole intelligent design nonsense. Frankly, it's turning the US school system into a laughing stock.
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-02-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. A return to the Dark Ages
It's pathetic that we live in a country where primitive nonsense like "creationism" is embraced by not only your average red-state moron but also by the president.

One nation under God? More like one nation undereducated.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. "More like one nation undereducated."
You said a mouthful there, jsw. And that is just the way that the repugs want it. He has to put his two cents in about this, about the Palmieri (sp?) steroid story, and that lousy bastard Rove. I wish he would just shut the hell up and go on vacation already.

If you want to learn science, go to school. If you want to learn religion, go to church.
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BattyDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Can you imagine the next generation of Americans?
The rest of the world will be finding cures for every disease known to man because of advances in stem cell research, therapeutic cloning and gene therapy ... and Americans will still be debating evolution! What's next ... "proving" that the Earth is flat? :eyes:
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Gemini Cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yes, and the ultra weathy will run to the rest of the world
for the various cures for their various ills. They'll use science then. Meanwhile, the rest of us will die YOUNG after we've worked our asses off and the life has been sucked out of us, because of them. :mad: The science won't be there for us only the weathy, but never fear the fristians will prey on pray for us anyway. :grr:
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
12. so i guess Privilege is part of the Intelligent design..??
:dunce:
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
13. So what happens during geology class in college?
Oh well.
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stanwyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Geology's next on the hit list
then, "both sides" of geogaphy, and "both sides" of grammar (Bush's and standard), followed by "both sides" of geometry.

Unbelievable. You know who I truly detest? The "fiscal conservatives" who voted for Bush who said "all that other stuff" doesn't matter.
It does.
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. Good point! Since no rock can be more than 6,000 years old, I guess
Edited on Wed Aug-03-05 12:56 PM by VegasWolf
we need two geologies! Two physics and biochemistries too!
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. this is how Islam declined, it replaced rationalism with mysticism
In the 13th century islam spanned eurasia, but the schism in Islam was between rationalism and mysticism, with the latter winning out over the following three centuries. as a result in muslim lands there was no Enlightenment, no triumph of rationalism or new science.

as a scientist, i am appalled that the nation is lead by such a fucking moron.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. Interesting point, kodi -- I think you're right. nt
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 05:30 AM
Response to Original message
15. The universe revolves around the earth theory should be taught
...as well. Children should hear both sides.
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SleeplessinSoCal Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'm trying to imagine the kids trying to understand people....
who live to be 900 and that we all came from two people, Where did Kane and Abel's wives come from again?
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bcoylepa Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
22. different schools of thought eh?
try teaching this one too

"Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster."
http://www.venganza.org/ - great site enjoy!
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
24. Is the plan
to keep most folks in a state of turbulence and agitation, the motive behind these asinine statements?
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