Bayh: Democrats face security threshold

[sabra]

<<SNIP>>
http://newsobserver.com/24hour/politics/story/2609653p-11068999c.html

Bayh: Democrats face security threshold

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Democratic Sen. Evan Bayh, a possible presidential candidate in 2008, said Thursday that his party lacks credibility on national security and needs to convince Americans that Democrats are willing to use force when necessary.
Until the party can persuade voters, it will be unable to move the debate to issues that work for Democrats, Bayh said in an interview with The Associated Press.

"Unless the American people know that we will be good stewards of the nation's security, they're unlikely to trust us with anything else," said the two-term Indiana senator. "That's a very important threshold we have to get over."

Bayh said there are legitimate grounds to criticize President Bush's approach to fighting terrorism, but until Democrats establish more credibility on the issue, many voters won't listen.

<</SNIP>>

[Clark2008]

1. Yep - and that's why I'm backing Wes Clark.

There won't be a problem with national security threshholds if he's the nominee.

The Dems already hold the lock on econominc issues (still need to spout them, though).

[davidinalameda]

3. bingo!

no one can question Clark's national security expertise

I'm sure they can try but it won't work

[Crunchy Frog]

14. You said it baby!

That's one of the best endorsements that I've seen so far for Wes Clark. I wonder when Bayh will be getting on board the Clark campaign officially (though I do find him a bit too conservative for my tastes). :evilgrin:

[Pithy Cherub]

15. Let the word go forth...Clark has 'em in abundance!

And no currently elected Dem is in a position to acquire those national security credentials/expertise during the Bush misadministration. Being a senator and sitting on a committee won't cut it!

[wicket]

20. amen!

:kick:

[Raiden]

44. Well said!

Clark '08

:hi:

[Boo Boo]

48. Oh my God!

Why would you trust Clark, a man who has never even been Mayor of a small town more than Bayh, a distinguished Senator and New Democrat? Bayh has sat on many boards and committies; he understands security issues.

:silly:

[Clark2008]

53. LOL!

You DO prove a point - that you do! :hi:

[dArKeR]

59. Back Bayh is the same as backing Zell Miller

[saigon68]

2. Never ending War --millions killed

Ya that sounds about right-- Bayh--

Its a good thing YOU GREW UP with a SILVER SPOON in your mouth.

The poor as always-- will fight YOUR WAR

[5thGenDemocrat]

57. And, let me ask...did Bayh ever serve in the military himself?

Reading his short biography, the answer seems to be "no." Great choice for a point man on this military credibility thing.
John
The poor fought his war, indeed. Seems, judging by his vote on the IWR, they still are.

[saigon68]

68. You have it correct

A DINO Chicken Hawk RATTLING HIS SWORD

LOL

[Gloria]

4. You don't establish your "security threshold" by voting with Bush all the

time and talking war on their terms!

You talk about how the GOP didn't want any sort of Homeland security measures (coopted the idea after ignoring it) and then didn't really fund them properly or focus on things like port security; you talk about how diplomacy worked better than "preemptive war"; and you remind people of all the ignored intelligence about 911 and how they blew off Berger's warnings a out Al-Q in 2001. In other words, you establish the GOP patterns of neglect and stupidity and tie it into the consequences of it. You also remind them that it's Clinton's army that they're screwing up now...

In other words--you also have to DEBUNK the GOP aura of being so great on security issues, which they are NOT!

[Skwmom]

35. It just makes the Democrats look like sheep who fall in line behind

the Republicans.

[bvar22]

5. Evan Bayh, Proud member of the DLC, ....

doing the heavy lifting for the Republican Party by attacking the Democratic Party and repeating the Republican Talking Points. The DLC is making sure that if they don't get elected, the seats go to their friends in the Republican Party and not their enemies in the Democratic Party.


There is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED TO REINFORCE the Republican Talking Points and repeat the Republican LIES.

If BAYH had been a Democrat, he would have simply addressed the Republican LIE by calling it a LIE and pointing out that the Democratic party:

* WINS WARS, and the Republican Party LOSES WARS!

* That the Democratic Party is led by heroes who SERVED in the Armed Forces, and the Republican Party is led by cowards and War Profiteers!

*That is is time to face REALITY and call the Iraq Occupation a HUGE FAILURE and FIRE those responsible for the FAILURE!

BUT NOOOOO! Bayh attacks the Democratic Party!!!!
Thanks Bayh!
Thanks DLC!!!!

[Iowa]

22. Excellent post by bvar22!

You summed it up perfectly.

[Iowa]

33. Not that it will do any good, but I wrote to Bayh...

and I lifted some of your excellent comments. Maybe his staff will listen to an Iowan this early in the process, since he seems to have set up camp here. A portion:

"Many Democrats are on to politicians like you, Mr. Bayh. No longer will we fall into the trap of supporting DLC candidates simply because the alternative is so much worse - because it is the very presence of a weak, uninspired, "me-too" opposition that enables the other side to be so bad in the first place. We finally understand that we are living in a country with only one party - the corporate party - and we understand that it is the DLC's role to prop up the illusion that the people actually have a "choice". It is a sham, and we are sick of it! Therefore, we will oppose your type at both the caucuses and the voting booths, even if it means devastating Republican victories, in the hope that a true opposition party will eventually emerge from the damage created by years of corporate excess. Perhaps then the country can begin to dig out of the mess we're in. Many of us have simply lost hope for the present and have made the difficult choice to set our sights on the long-term at the expense of the present. In short, the DLC wing of the Democratic party does not represent the people, and we will abandon the party when DLC candidates, like yourself, are put forth. You are a part of the problem, not the solution...".

"...As a Democrat, I will plan to oppose your nomination here in Iowa by writing letters to editors and expressing harsh criticisms when you make appearances in my area...".

[Mr. Peanut]

37. You’re right. Bayh is a sellout.

Check out Warner’s attitude:

Governor Warner sits down with Salon.com

... when I'm talking to Democrats, especially with the hardcore Democrats, they want to tell you what they particularly dislike about President Bush. And my feeling is this: There are a lot of things I disagree with the president on. But I think the president's biggest mistake, and I think he's made it twice, once right after 9/11, and once after the Iraq war started, is that he never called on this country for any level of shared sacrifice.

He never called on us to greatness. He never called on us to say, "We are at war, our nation is under assault, and here's what we're going to do." It could be energy independence. It could be "We're going to be the best educated workforce." It could be "We're going to rebuild this infrastructure." It could have been anything. People all across this country were yearning to be called upon. Instead, we were told, "We're going to give a tax cut. We're not going to worry about the nation's finances." And the only people who have been asked to sacrifice are our men and women in the Armed Forces, and they're disproportionately our Guard and Reserve, who make up about 52 percent of our people on the ground in Iraq.

And I think, again, Americans know that. They know that in their gut. Whether it's finances or whether it's, "If we're going to be in this war for some time to come, we're going to have make some level of sacrifice to maintain not only our own national security but our global position in the world." And I think Americans are ready to step up. A little bit of truth telling goes a long way....

http://www.salon.com/news/lotp/2005/06/13/virginia_governor/

[Raiden]

46. Warner is my idea of a GOOD Democratic moderate

Evan Bayh is the paradigm bad moderate Dem ---Zell Miller and Evan Bayh--- The only two contemporary Dems I can think of - that I will NEVER vote for!

[krkaufman]

38. thanks for expressing my thoughts. Bayh is a DLC schmuck. n/t

[me b zola]

65. Perfect response, I applaud you.

All indications are that the mood of the nation is to get out of Iraq, stop talking about how scared we are supposed to be and address our needs here at home.

Even the lame media is picking up on the mood of the nation after Hackett's showing in southern Ohio. But Bayh's response to Hackett's telling race is to play to the neo-cons talking points. :argh:

Incredible.

[Lorien]

66. Amen bvar22!

Right on target, once again! :thumbsup:

[quiet.american]

6. Will Bayh EVER learn?

For years, his M.O. has been to start every point tearing down Democrats and/or praising Bushco.

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. Thank you Evan Bayh!

You've just confirmed another one of the mischaracterizing labels pasted on Democrats by the opposition.

Quit feeding into "the problems with Democrats" line and come out FUCKING FIGHTING FOR US!!! Stand up and SHOUT, "DEMOCRATS ARE THE BEST CHOICE FOR THE NATIONAL SECURITY OF THIS COUNTRY!"

Then, repeat it again and again and again and again ad nauseum!

[brentspeak]

18. Exactly

Bayh seems to forget that Wilson, FDR, and Truman were all Democrats who were competent Commander-in-Chiefs. As was Bill Clinton (who learned after Somalia, and then later did a good job with Kosovo).

Evan Bayh is not going to get the Democratic nomination. He should sit down, shut up, and support the Democrats.

[bvar22]

8. Nominating

because the cancer within the Democratic Party needs to be exposed.

[Zhade]

21. Indeed.

Needless to say, I will not vote for this man if he is the nominee. I will not vote for ANYONE who wants to continue the illegal war in Iraq. PERIOD.

Anyone who doesn't like that can fuck right off - I have to sleep with myself.

[Talismom]

25. Right on! Right now! n/t

[AlCzervik]

9. Why does he want to reenforce that incorrect stereotype?

that doesn't help his own chances one bit. Put a cork in it Evan.

[xxqqqzme]

10. WTF is he doin' in IOWA!

I know it starts w/ an 'I' so maybe he's lost.


Why can't these dinos just keep their mouths shut! There R a number of dinos that need 2 B kept an a very short leash. Bayh is one of them.

[Jokerman]

11. Evan Bayh needs to convince me he's a Democrat.

During his recent campaign he ran adds boasting about his support for invading Iraq and how the Indiana HumVee plant has benefited from the increase in military spending. Made me want to hurl.

[BillZBubb]

12. The good ole' DLC stinks up the place again.

"We'd better be more like the Repugs on (insert issue here) or else!" Instantly gives backing to Repug charges that the Democrats are weak on (insert issue here).

Jeez, I'm tired of their bullshit.

[LincolnMcGrath]

43. GOP Accuse DLCdems Agree

Please go AWAY DLC!

[theHandpuppet]

13. Oh yeah... the country's been so secure under Bush!

I feel like I'm in the damned Twilight Zone.

[Robeson]

24. I feel the same way. Up is down, night is day, and wrong is right.

[Puzzler]

16. Hey Clinton used force...

... and the Repugs screamed.

-P

[ibegurpard]

17. Fool

They'll just turn it against you like they did with all of Clinton's military endeavors.
People will respond to someone who seems REAL, who FORCEFULLY stands for values they believe in, and who presents a CLEAR alternative to a situation they are unhappy with.

[depakid]

19. Oh, your Daddy must be so proud of you Evan...

More likely, old Birch is rolling over in his grave....

Yet another Dem undermining his party and reinforcing Republican spin.

It just amazes me how ignorant some Dems are about the principles of rhetoric- particularly as they relate to framing issues....

[rucky]

23. Why do the DLC-ers get so much press?

there are some things they run on the wire just to piss us off.

more important question: What does he/we stand to gain by making a public announcement of his strategic musings?

[Talismom]

26. Because the corporate media like them almost as much as they

like the repukes!

[Goldeneye]

27. We do need to establish credibility on

National Security. We've been painted as pansies. I don't know why everyone is so upset about Bayh saying this. The only line I have trouble with is the last one.

"We've got a few voices out there who would be a little bit more on the fringe," Bayh said. "Unfortunately, too often they define the entire party."

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with that. I think its the centrists that have been running the show.

[VegasWolf]

28. I could care less about more war-mongers, I want someone to fix the

economy here at home.

[gatorboy]

29. It's a tragedy that Democrats are constantly considered weak on this issue

Wasn't it the Democrats that really pushed Homeland Security? That is defense.

The real difference is Democrats are all about military defense and Republicans are all about military offense. They can't defend shit and would rather someone's lower class son or daughter do the work for them.

[KittyWampus]

30. Two Words- Wesley Clark. And Interesting DU'ers Can't Be Bothered To

address the valid point he makes.

The Left has successfully, if incorrectly, labeled as soft on defense.

Of course Clark has the best comeback (I paraphrase), "the GOP supports expensive weapons systems and the Democrats support the troops".

[Raiden]

49. You aren't supporting what Bayh says are you?

Granted, I agree with the fact that we have *wrongly* been labeled as soft on defense, but Bayh undermines the party with the way he points it out. DLC supporters have claimed "Well, Dean says the same thing." That's only somewhat true. Dean acknowledges that we have been wrongly labeled, but he says that the method to remedy that is not to attack Dems and rally behind the opposition, but instead to reframe the debate. And at the same time Dean does not attack the Democrats for opposing the Republicans. In other words, Bayh is a shameless Republican posing as a Democrat.

I also support Wes Clark, but the fact that he was a general is only a fringe benefit (a very, very SWEET one). He is a mainstream populist Dem who clearly articulates his positions. That's why I like Clark. If I liked him solely because he was a general, that would be rather shallow.





Peace

[dback]

31. You mean, besides Clinton's work in Bosnia, Haiti, Ireland, etc?

Right wing Repubs have gotten entirely too good at spinning this myth that Clinton did nothing for 8 years but get a bj from Monica, when in actuality he was taking the lead in trying to establish peace worldwide (including his near-successful efforts in the Middle East, trumped by Arafat). He bombed the hell out of Bosnia because it was the right thing to do to stop the ethnic cleansing--and if I'm not mistaken, not one American died in that mission.

[Skwmom]

61. If I recall, it took Clinton a long time to intervene in Bosnia.

Albright and Clark pushed for the U.S. to stop the ethnic cleansing. Furthermore, he did nothing in Rwanda while close to a million people were slaughtered (oh he did have the U.S. pressure the UN security council to stay on the sidelines while the slaughter took place). What a guy. Of course he now says Rwanda is his "biggest regret." I guess he's worried about the black vote for Hillary.

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

32. Since when has the Bush Administration been a "good steward" of ANYTHING?

Yeah. We're a bunch of pussies who would let Canada invade. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

[Q]

34. What a pompous loser...

...Democrats ARE willing to 'use force' when necessary. They shouldn't be willing to go along with those who use force unnecessarily and then lie about it to cover their political asses.

Bayh is either a political dolt for helping to reinforce RWing stereotypes...or he is a Republican in Democratic clothing.

[november3rd]

36. This sob should change parties. Slash DoD!

I think the issue is, "Can the democrats rein in the Pentagon?" The hijacking of the US into a military police state is the main issue in American politics, even in front of terrorism, energy and health care.

Anybody who says democrats are soft on defense has their head up their schnozzle.

The Pentagon is running the country, and running it straight into the ground!

[ourbluenation]

39. Wesley Clark...hellooooooo!

[hopein08]

40. A question for Senator Bayh...

"You say that the Democrats must establish more credibility on the issue of national security, but HOW THE HELL ARE THEY (AND YOU SUPPOSED TO DO THAT WHEN THE DEMOCRATS DO NOT CONTROL ANY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT THAT DEALS WITH NATIONAL SECURITY?"

Bayh really needs to pick a new issue. This one isn't going to fly. At least with me.

[annabanana]

41. Question: How the HELL could ANYONE the Dems put up...

be WORSE for national security than wrong country invading, al-qaida determined to attack in US memo ignoring, homeland security shortchanging, chickenshit, chickenhawk, crime syndicate princling commander cuckoo bananas!!!!

Jiminy Christmas people!!

[Raiden]

51. By putting up someone who shamelessly follows Bush's example

To quote Ben Kenobi "Which is worse: the fool or the fool who follows him?"

[K-W]

42. Idiotic. EOM

[Raiden]

45. Bayh's strategy *Sticks finger in the wind*

"Hmmm, this statement will make me popular" (meanwhile he's pissing off his base)

I am a pretty hardcore yellow dog Dem, but I will never vote for Evan Bayh, he's a Rebublican in Dem clothing.

[cosmicdot]

47. did Evan run this by the DNC and its Chairman first?

since he's all concerned about the Party and its image and such ... wouldn't hurt to coordinate things, eh, Evan?

... or maybe he cleared it with the DLC American Dream Initiative Director who is tasked with establishing an agenda for the DNC -- is this part of the agenda???

Who is Bayh trying to convince? We grassroot and life-long Democrats who know better? The growing numbers wising up to Bu$hCo who, also, know better? Or Freepers who will likely appreciate his effort on their behalf? Perhaps his corporate logo base?

This, imo, is designed to help set up who the DLC wants us to nominate in '08.

It's wrong (historically and otherwise); and, he should be called on the carpet. Howard??


P.S. Evan, if you wish to address security, there's nothing more threatening to it than Election Fraud. Unless you want the Democrats to lose another one that we actually won. Let's hear some strong oratory on that subject from you; and, while you are at it, call for an HAVA spending moratorium ASAP before too many more millions go down the BBV drain. Unless of course, Diebold, ES&S have a 100% refund clause and/or you support the fraud.

We need real leadership.

[Jim Sagle]

50. Buh-BAYH!!!!

:boring:

[AusTexDem]

52. I heard Sen. Bayh say " Illregardless", in an interview once.

That was it for me.

[IndianaGreen]

54. Needless to say, but Bayh is a chickenhawk

and his knowledge of foreign policy and national security issues extends no farther than the DLC Talking Points that he read.

Bayh, a child of privilege that never served one day in uniform, and whose idea of national defense is intertwined with levels of testosterone.

Fool!

[Vadem]

55. And he is full of shit! You tell me which party has gone to war...

more often to protect their country! Certainly not the chickenhawk Republican party! They are the cowards, not the Democratic party! The Democrats have always enlisted to protect their country! The republicans are cowards (in most instances). I agree that there are a few republicans who enlist to support their country, but a whole lot less than their Democratic comrades!

[Rex]

56. Bush has no credibility so Evan can stfu.

Hey Dem idiot, why don't you tell us all about 911 and what you think about this FAKE war that Bush started. I want to hear you on national television talk, in length, about the 911 investigations and the citizens being held, WITHOUT due process. Is it worth it? Tell us or just stfu!

[BiggJawn]

58. Evan, if i wanted to vote for a ReTHUGlican, i'd vote for a REAL one...

...not one of you DLC ReTHUGlican LITES...
Lessee, now....
FDR got us through WWII. Truman finished the job and presided over the first war that we lost.

JFK got us involved with DeGaulle's tar baby, Clinton went to Bosnia, all the while Chickenhawk Newt Gingrich was screaming "Wag the DOG! Wag the DOG!"

I think the Democratic party knows War...

[leesa]

60. This guy's an idiot.

[Robbins]

62. Bayh

He supported Bush 100 percent on Iraq,and even voted for all the Bush
Tax Cuts. On the other hand Clark has been speaking out against Iraq,and campaigned for Hackett In Ohio. Yes Clark did admit to voting for Nixon In 72,Reagan In 80,and 84,and Bush In 88 but at least he
doesn't pretend to be a Dem. And I would like to know what experience Bush had to deal with National security. He was a chicken
Hawk too drunk to fly,and missing for almost a year.

[Bluebear]

63. As the flight attendant said, "Buh-BAYH now!"

[Telly Savalas]

64. Bayh is an irrelevant clown.

The 2008 primary fight will likely already be saturated with conservative Democrats like Biden and Senator Clinton. The guy needs something to distinguish himself as a superior candidate to these two if he hopes to have any chance. I'm just not seein' it.

[femmecahors]

67. Use force?

Aren't we the party of World War II? The last "good" war.

Aren't we Vietnam? (with a little push from Eisenhower)

He needs to read his history books!

[TheDonkey]

69. well bitching about it is definetly building our credibility

stuff like that pisses me off. Bayh is in the national spotlight, if he wants things to change he's the one to do it.

[suegeo]

70. 3000 people die on Republican's watch

3000 people died in NYC, Penn, and DC right under Gee-Dubya's nose. Warnings were everywhere.

And the Republican's are strong on national security?

I could go on and on about the armed robbery in Iraq, the mess in Afghanistan, and all the awful things Poppy Bush did to set us up for this mess, but why bother, when so-called leaders like Bayh further illusion that Republicans are somehow tough guys. THEY'RE NOT. They're incompetent (at best) or complicit (my belief) in the crimes and murder.

[yurbud]

71. what a dumb fuck. send him Gen. Smedley Butler's "War Is a Racket"

Hillbilly Hitler art:



Blog:

[mike_c]

72. "security" is code-speak for aggression, imperialism, facism, and...

...war without end. No thank you. Democrats need to COUNTER that message, not try out do the republicans.

[Barkley]

73. You're right on the money mick_c

UN sanctions killed 500,000 Iraqis
Shock and Awe killed another 100,000
Abu Ghraib humiliated the Iraqis
Falluja decimated the Iraqis

and we now need MORE 'security'?!?!?!

Unfortunately, too many democrats are going
along with the the notion of 'stronger than thou'.

We need to get our troops home to their families.

We need to increase our homeland security.

We need to play a contructive role in bringing about
stability in peace in the middle east and the world
without aggression and grand plans of imperial empires.

[54anickel]

74. What'd ya expect from Bayh - The asshole who teamed up with McCain

to basically ruin the Peace Corp.

Oh yeah, that was a good idea - NOT! :eyes: Bastards never even let the Peace Corp know what they were doing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1669910#1669983

[startingnow]

75. Are You Kidding Me?! I feel better protected with the Democrats in Power!

Democrats would not wait around to protect us. They wouldn't be giving tax cuts at time of war, and they would take every necessary precaution to protect us fully. Republicans are too much into how to make a quick buck and protecting people without spending any money. Give me a break! They're the reason we got into this mess in the first place!

Democrats would bring everyone to the table, and would ensure that are rights are NOT trampled on. This is a "smart" war, and Republicans ARE NOT smart! You need people with a few brain cells in their heads to fight this thing. This isn't like we're fighting countries, (although we are.) This is about Islamic fundamentalists who could care less about blowing themselves us. They're everywhere! You're dealing with psychological warfare. You can't just go into countries and blow people and places up. Republicans want to make a profit at any cost and cut corners for those who are coming back home who have fought for our country. They're a disgrace to the United States! :grr: