Elusive sniper saps US morale in Baghdad

[leftchick]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1542824,00.html

They have never seen Juba. They hear him, but by then it's too late: a shot rings out and another US soldier slumps dead or wounded.

There is never a follow-up shot, never a chance for US forces to identify the origin, to make the hunter the hunted. He fires once and vanishes.

Juba is the nickname given by American forces to an insurgent sniper operating in southern Baghdad. They do not know his appearance, nationality or real name, but they know and fear his skill.


"He's good," said Specialist Travis Burress, 22, a sniper with the 1-64 battalion based in Camp Rustamiyah. "Every time we dismount I'm sure everyone has got him in the back of their minds. He's a serious threat to us."

[bemildred]

1. Another bit:

Thursday's New York Times reported that the techniques used by Hezbollah in Lebanon were increasingly being seen in roadside bombs in Iraq.

An unnamed senior American commander quoted by the paper said bombs using shaped charges closely matched the bombs that Hezbollah used against Israel.

"Our assessment is that they are probably going off to 'school' to learn how to make bombs that can destroy armoured vehicles," he said. - Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005

[leftchick]

2. who could have predicted???

this is so very sad... :(

[bemildred]

4. It's eerily like they have human intelligence ... nt

[okieinpain]

52. really who would have thought the war on terror would be like a

trade schoold for future terrorist. wow I'm really amazed that those sand n***ers can think and adapt to the situation at hand. totally amazing I would have thought they would just bow down to the greatness of the white man.

Wow, go figure.

[LiberalFighter]

61. Greatness of the white cowboy in the white house

[midnight armadillo]

7. I say bullshit to that American commander

There's plenty of Iraqi former military personnel who would know how to make a shaped charge.

I'll bet I could find descriptions and diagrams on teh Internet in 10 minutes using Google. Or maybe the Iraqis fiddled around with explosives and figured it out themselves. Of course, with the pervasive racism towards Iraqis that would never be considered, eh?

Blaming Hezbollah (supported by Iran) is a little too convenient.

[rodeodance]

9. Hezbollah --don't we know 'accept' them as a political party--in Lybia?

Perhaps I have the countries mixed up?

Blaming Hezbollah (supported by Iran) is a little too convenient.

[wakeme2008]

13. He could be US trained.. At the School of the Americas in GA

under ReaGun, back when Saddam was our friend.

[MetaTrope]

16. Or check the Blackwater employment rolls

Bet they've got a schedule for troops patrols too.

[Briar]

18. Check out Juan Cole

for a thorough debunking of these Hezbollah, Iran being in cohoots stories. Feith and co at work again...

http://www.juancole.com/

[leftchick]

20. and Bolton

:grr:

[MisterP]

48. On to Iran! (it rhymes, you see)

[NNN0LHI]

3. Wonder how many apprentices he has trained? n/t

[leftchick]

5. indeed

:(

[Im_Your_Huckleberry]

43. more to the point, who trained him?

[NNN0LHI]

55. I would imagine they had a lot of well trained snipers in the Iraqi army

I think that would be SOP for any military.

Don

[jody]

6. Dupe see earlier thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4266652

[SidDithers]

8. Same article, different forum. nt

Sid

[jody]

10. I know that. n/t

[DivinBreuvage]

11. Never fear, US will send top sniper school expert to shoot him dead

or at least say they did (this is an allusion to a famous sniper story concocted by the Soviets during the Battle of Stalingrad in World War II. I bring it up because the US military has already shown that it is both willing and able to broadcast Soviet-style propaganda.

Wait, I know how they'll get that sniper! They'll send in Jessica Lynch with guns a-blazin'!

[bemildred]

12. Did make me think of Stalingrad, and the joys of urban combat. nt

[DivinBreuvage]

14. Speaking of which, in response to your remark in post #4

One historian of the German-Soviet War pointed out how German soldiers' writings reflected how their perceptions of the enemy changed as the war progressed.

Letters and journals from the summer of 1941 mock the stupidity, cowardice, and poor military performance of the Russians.

Letters and journals from the fall of 1941 express unease about Russian endurance and tenacity, and exasperation with "people who do not know when they are beaten".

Letters are journals from the winter of 1941 despairingly refer to the unstoppable Red monster that can never be overcome.

[bemildred]

15. An old story, many times repeated. Arrogance makes you stupid.

One of the flaws in demonizing and dehumanising one's enemy is that it leads you to also underestimate them. That works well enough if one truly has an insuperable advantage, all things considered, but it is never the most efficient approach, and it is always wrong in the larger sense. We are all as alike as peas in a pod, and would do better to accept that situation.

[Pystoff]

21. Pulease

The military couldn't send a sniper out to get him and my reason is this...

A US sniper team couldn't move through those neighborhoods because the Iraqi public would skin his ass in a single hour LOL. They'd need a battalion to even try to get a 2 man team out there to even try. And sniping from a fixed base isn't going to make a difference either....cept make a high level target for a sniper with advantage of cover and ability to change angles.

[DivinBreuvage]

44. I wasn't saying that they would REALLY send in an ubersniper

but that they'd be likely to invent a glamorous story like that to sell to the public, as they've already done with Jessica Lynch.

My talk about the "sniper school expert" referred to a story the Soviets made up in WWII. They really did have a great sniper named Vasili Zaitsev, who preyed on the Germans at Stalingrad, but that wasn't dramatic enough so they concocted a story about how Zaitsev demoralized the Germans so much that they sent their best man to hunt him down, and Zaitsev bested him. In fact a recent big-budget movie, "Enemy at the Gates", was all about this alleged incident.

That being said, you do make some very interesting points in your post.

[louis-t]

63. Phenominal movie

One of my new favorites.

[iconoclastic cat]

17. Apocolypse when?

Oh. Right. It's NOW now.

[Pystoff]

19. This isn't surprising at all

I can't remeber which city it was either Fallujah or Rhamadi.

Last year in a span of 2-3 days 18 marines got killed by a single sniper anyone rememebr that? Well that sniper wasn't just any old sniper...Chechen rebel AQ backed sniper he was. See the Chechens have Russian military training from years before that mess even started and are among the best snipers in the world. This particular sniper did the very same thing and all were headshots just below helmet level or in the neck (kill shots all). The only reason the marines got him was the city was in the middle of an invasion by the marine so eventually he ran out of hiding places by virtue of them being taken by the marines and constant observation.

Problem here is this is the army not the marines and also they are making easy targets by virtue of Bahgdad not being under seige and losing hiding places. This will continue for a very long time unless the sniper makes an ignorant mistake or bad luck befalls him.

My guess is either Chechen mercenary or hired former Russian sniper needing a job. Dragunov sniper rifles make a very distinctive hard cracking sound when fired.

[KansDem]

23. I remember that story

At least I think it was the same one. I remember reading about a "legendary" sniper who was creating hell for the Americans. I thought his actual existence was discounted by news/military reports that made him out to be nothing more than a propaganda tool for the Iraqi "insurgents."

Was his existence verified? Is this the same guy? I remember reading he was very good at what he did.

[Pystoff]

26. He was real

Buddy of mine right before he did his tour near the base in Fallujah told me about this guy. He had to go to Pendleton for pre-Iraq training (marine) and they told them about this guy in detail probably to warm them and prepare for possibilities in the feild. The guy was a Chechen-al Qaeda operative and trained by the Russian army from before the civil war in Chechnya. He was using a Dragunov sniper rifle a really nasty rifle using a 7.62 round with a major punch to it range about mile and a half easy. Took them about 2-3 weeks to even get a chance to get him and that was in combat with artillery to use.

Sniper had blonde hair and blue eyes btw.

[Romulus]

27. I found a story that mentions the incident

As former USMC, I try to follow what is happening over in Iraq, but I managed to miss this story when it came out!

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0324/p04s01-woiq.html

from the March 24, 2005 edition

In Iraq with 'reservists that fight'

Expecting to pull security duty, the reservists of Bravo Company became battle-hardened marines.

*snip*

"It feels good to just play my part, help everybody get back home safe,'' says the father of four, who grew up hunting squirrel and deer in Texas. "A sniper's worst enemy is another sniper, and an enemy sniper can paralyze your operations,'' he says. In Fallujah last April, before Bravo was here, two Chechen snipers killed 15 marines in one day.



Caption: SNIPER: Sgt. Byron Hancock from Bryan, Texas, rests after sleepless nights in March in Hit, Iraq. Sergeant Hancock is one of the Marine's top snipers.

[Pystoff]

35. My bad

I said one and 18 killed.

Good search there man kudos to you.

[Ilsa]

22. "Enemy at the Gates"

WWII in USSR snipers. Violent but good film.

[QuettaKid]

24. sniper rifles stolen....

those 6 dead marines killed on Monday were snipers and the insurgents took all of their weapons.

[Tesha]

29. What diference does it make? They could buy weapons at US gun shows! (NT)

[Pystoff]

37. True but

Good sniper rifles that have the best scopes a coutry can make are a big catch. And those rifles use a common .303 round which has been in production since the late 1800's so a VERY good pick up for the rebels. Even better would be a few hundred .50cal sniper rifles easily bought on the US market then they could pop holes through lighter armoured vehicles as well. Then we'd have major probs but the NRA doesn't want those off the market...geniuses.

[H5N1]

25. Didn't Saddam train snipers?

Isn't it just as likely this single sniper
is many people, trained and pissed.
If I were an Iraqi sniper, I would be sniping
for sure. And I would patiently set up every kill - time is all they have.

[nolabels]

28. Snipers also set up people who put up other traps

If they go on the hunt for him other ambush is sure to follow

[H5N1]

31. I didn't know that. Makes sense.

[nolabels]

40. This nonsensical invasion / occupation is rife with contradictions

Mostly just a kick with that post, but that flick "Enemy at the Gates" is vivid reminder that old style colonization is no longer viable in todays world. The longer the US stays there the more difficult it will become.

My 19yr old Nephew is scheduled for a tour of duty in Iraq and I hope it gets better not worse over there. I am realistic though and really have to wonder. Escalating deaths of servicemen and the propagandist saying things are getting better.

Iraq and the US are the same in some ways though. It is when the need for public good. When it becomes greater and more important than the needs of individuals or government desires then it takes center stage

[Tesha]

30. Every army trains snipers. It's stupid propaganda to claim "there's one"

Every army trains snipers. It's stupid propaganda to claim the
equivalent of "there's just one and we'll get him." There are
doubtless plenty more waiting.

Tesha

[donsu]

32. agree - there are probably snipers in every block, neighborhood,

town or village.

[Shipwack]

38. Not to necessarily disagree...

...but there's a possibility that the army does know what they are talking about when they say there is only one sniper - by analysis of the bullets, they could determine if the same rifle fired all the shots. If they were all fired from the same rifle, it is likely that there is only one sniper. Granted, it could be several snipers handing off the same rifle to each other, but that sounds overly complicated in comparison.

Someone earlier said not to underestimate the enemy. The corollary of that is to not underestimate our own troops, either.

Of course, neither one of us has enough data to have a sound opinion, though I think Occam's razor cuts more toward the theory of multiple snipers...

[Tesha]

41. The only claim that could assert based on that evidence is...

The only claim that could assert based on that evidence is that
there is one *ACTIVE* sniper right now. There could be hundreds
who "have his back".

Tesha

[daleo]

50. Cheney said this sniper was in his "final throes"

So, that should be it, then.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

34. Remember the Republican Guard...

and how they seemed to just "vanish" in April of 2003? Not as vanquished as we had hoped.

[alfredo]

33. I wonder if they have any of these?

american made and available nation wide.



A 50 cal round makes a terrible mess when it hits flesh.

[BrotherBuzz]

42. Steyr in Austria makes one, too

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn64-e.htm

Same .50BMG round....and it should be noted they did sell 800 to Iran last year.

I'm just saying....:shrug:

[alfredo]

45. I know the Barrett is all over the world now.

They did a spot on 60 minutes.

Almost a carbon copy of the Barrett.

[BrotherBuzz]

51. I remember that 60 Minutes piece...

PBS's P.O.V. (Point of View) did an excellent documentry titled "The Brooklyn Connection " on that Brooklyn Businessman/roofer that was buying all those rifles. Worth keeping an eye out for it if PBS decides to replay it...

http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/thebrooklynconnection/about.html
\
<snip>


Krasniqi didn't start out a political man. Though he came from one of the world's most fought-over regions - the Kosovo province of old Yugoslavia. The Brooklyn businessman was more focused on his prosperous American life than on festering legacies of Balkan political strife. A US citizen and owner of a roofing company, Krasniqi's most characteristic posture was at the backyard barbecue. That changed in 1997. Florin's cousin, Adrian, was killed in an attack on the Serb-dominated Yugoslav army, as conflict between Kosovo's Albanian majority and its Serbian rulers escalated into war - and to charges and counter-charges of "terrorism" and "ethnic cleansing." Florin's return for Adrian's funeral proved a shattering experience. He dedicated himself to bringing about the Kosovo Albanians' long-frustrated dream of self-determination.

<more>

[alfredo]

56. That's the one I was thinking about.

[DS1]

47. That would be really dumb

It's far too big to move easily, isn't suited for urban operations, and the dust cloud it would kick up would be too difficult to hide.

Better to stay with a standard round - they're easier to find and much lighter.

[BrotherBuzz]

53. From a mile away?

32 lbs and 57 inches long sounds like it could disappear quickly enough in most any vehicle. :shrug:

[DS1]

54. Which makes it all but useless in an urban environment

[Baclava]

58. It's not so much the weapon...it's the shooter behind it...

Ludmilla Pavlichenko...309 confirmed kills.

[Zorra]

36. The Audie Murphy of the Iraqi Resistance. n/t

[leesa]

39. So this one guy is what is destroying morale in Iraq?? That's a stretch.

[henslee]

46. He's the Rooster (Alice in Chains)

[Dr Fate]

49. I always picture a chicken wearing a Dracula cape when I hear that tune.

Bok-bok-ba-GAAA!!!

"Oh no-here comes the demon chicken again!!!"

[Pachamama]

57. "Blew out his spine in one clean shot"....

....that there is/are snipers like that and who only shoot once is a danger that is near impossible for our military to stop...

Wow...how scary...one shot and spine is blown out through the crevice in body armor...our kids are walking targets in a shooting gallery w/ someone who shoots once and doesn't miss...

[Kralizec]

64. This and other comments by soldiers made me shudder. n/t

[neuvocat]

59. There's probably more than one Juba.

I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

[Aristus]

60. Here it is: The 'Stalingrad' the right-wingers smugly insisted

would never happen in Baghdad.

[GregW]

62. Dayum ... if only Carlos Hathcock was still around ...

:-(

[cliss]

65. The prognosis: not good.

It would seem that the U.S. should have the advantage in this war. In fact, we don't. The chance of us succeeding in Iraq are about 1 million to 1. Here's why:

This Juba is probably a hardened mujahedeen, in his prime. He could have been one of Saddam's republican guard or a sniper, after "Einstein" L. Paul Bremer fired all of them at the start of the war.

There could be one, or several sharpshooters.

American troops are no match against this kind of an individual. Stan Goff wrote that "American troops, used to living soft, pampered lives from a consumer culture which caters to their every whim, are no match against Iraq insurgents.

We're the visiting team, here. The local population will shield all the insurgents. They simply melt into the crowd. The locals look the other way. We, on the other hand, are always on display. Our every move is observed. We're the ones with the pale faces & the flak jackets.

We need to stop creating these Bad Guys. It seems like the Spin Machine always has to create new bad guys, in order to polarize Us vs. Them, like Baskin Robbin's Villain of the Month. It's really simplistic propaganda; we have Al Zarkawi, Saddam, Bin Laden, Uday and Qusay, who did I miss?