NYT: Some Bombs Used in Iraq Are Made in Iran, U.S. Says

[Pirate Smile]

WASHINGTON, Aug. 5 - Many of the new, more sophisticated roadside bombs used to attack American and government forces in Iraq have been designed in Iran and shipped in from there, United States military and intelligence officials said Friday, raising the prospect of increased foreign help for Iraqi insurgents.

American commanders say the deadlier bombs could become more common as insurgent bomb makers learn the techniques to make the weapons themselves in Iraq.

But just as troubling is that the spread of the new weapons seems to suggest a new and unusual area of cooperation between Iranian Shiites and Iraqi Sunnis to drive American forces out - a possibility that the commanders said they could make little sense of given the increasing violence between the sects in Iraq.

Unlike the improvised explosive devices devised from Iraq's vast stockpiles of missiles, artillery shells and other arms, the new weapons are specially designed to destroy armored vehicles, military bomb experts say. The bombs feature shaped charges, which penetrate armor by focusing explosive power in a single direction and by firing a metal projectile embedded in the device into the target at high speed. The design is crude but effective if the vehicle's armor plating is struck at the correct angle, the experts said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/06/politics/06bomb.html?hp&ex=1123300800&en=78849d462a599fdc&ei=5094&partner=homepage

[Fovea]

1. It makes little sense

for the Iranians to be helping the Sunnis, who would just be enforcing rule on the Iraqi Shiite natives again, were they to aquire actual soverignity.

[krkaufman]

7. No matter their success against US, the Sunnis won't take over.

*IF* the Iranians *were* aiding the Sunni insurgents (which I doubt), it would merely be to weaken US forces and keep us occupied in Iraq -- lessening the risk of a US offensive against Iran. (Sorta like us siding w/ Saddam against Iran, back in the good ol' days.)

[achtung_circus]

2. Possible bullshit.

The technology around shaped charges is simple. It's been around for over 80 years, some of the best practitioners are oil drillers and information is widely available, viz:
<http://www.google.ca/search?q=shaped+charges&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official>

An Iranian connection is not necessary and smells of agenda.

[deeperpolitics]

27. Let's talk 'false flag terrorism' before its too late

Let's talk false flag terrorism before the shit hits the fan again.

I have been concerned from the day that the World Trade Centre project on 9/11 just happened to be coinciding with an airforce drill that was 'a mock hijacking and response scenario' ....the drill was taking place on the same morning as the WTC attacks. See www.prisonplanet.com or www.infowars.com
Hundreds of millions of dollars of insider trading on United and American airlines one week prior to the 9/11 project went uninvestigated--no one was interrogated or charged with aforeknowledge. See www.fromthewilderness.com

The White House spin on these attacks was used to garner the support of the reluctant public to war on the "axis-of-oil" nations. Next came the lies of weapons of mass distraction and the falsified documents used to claim Iraq was nuclear capable.

Interestingly, it just so happens that 'mock terrorist drills' were also taking place on the same morning as the recent London bombings of 7/7/7. It has gone virtually unreported that the Pound fell 6% in the 10 days before the London terror attacks, a clear indication of prior knowledge on the part of London's financial establishment. See www.prisonplanet.com
And we now also have an admission by Israeli authorities that they did indeed receive prior warning of the attacks and warned Benjamin Netanyahu to stay inside his London Hotel.
If Israel knew it was bombs before they went off then why wouldn't British police?

Again, in Britain, we see the effect is to manufacture consent of the public to war on the scapegoat axis-of-oil nations through these so-called terrorist bombings.

My recent finding in the August edition of www.larouchepub.com and other sources (see www.globalresearch.ca) is that another set of "mock terrorist drills" are scheduled to occur in mid-August/05 in the southern United States...however, the alarming concern here is that these exercises involve a nuclear device of some kind.

The drive to take out Iran by nuclear attacks needs justification...A false flag terrorist operation pointing the finger at Iran as scapegoat is on the agenda of the US Administration's Middle East foreign policy. See www.larouchepub.com

I suggest concerned citizens do some serious thought on the coincidence of "mock terrorist drills" occurring on the very day as real terrorist operations...and then do what you can to alert the community to this madness...a madness which wishes to perpetuate the never ending imaginary war on terror and grant affiliated weapons/industrial contracts in the process.
Also see my blog on examples of false flag terrorism at http://www.gnn.tv/B07329

[hedda_foil]

28. I'm afraid you may well be right.

All the signs point to another false flag op on the "homeland." BTW, you've got a great site. Welcome to DU!

[deeperpolitics]

30. hedda_foil

It would be great if someone who has the proper response time could put this little info here on "nuclear false flag op coming soon" up as a front line thread and get us going on some more feedback, instead of just letting this topic sit as a reply to a reply under a different titled topic.
Any takers here in the DU land?

[burrowowl]

32. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

Bookmarked your blog.

[krkaufman]

3. I'm not from Missouri but my Mom is.... SHOW ME!

Our Dear Leader and his Pentagon toadies don't have much credibility on this front.

(Nice to see that the NY Times isn't missing a step in echoing Admin propaganda, even w/ Judy Miller safely tucked away.)

[Pirate Smile]

11. I was going to point out that it wasn't even a Judy by-line.

I was born in Missouri so I can definitely go along with the Show Me sentiment.

[tocqueville]

4. Which is denied by the guy that caught the stuff

Dutton is commander of a multinational coalition force in an area of Iraq where the Shiite branch of the Muslim faith is predominant, as it is in Iran. Much of central and western Iraq, by contrast, is predominantly Sunni Muslim, and it was the Sunnis who ruled the country under former President Saddam Hussein.

Dutton was asked what evidence he has seen of harmful Iranian involvement in Iraq since the fall of Baghdad in 2003.

"The question of Iranian involvement is always a difficult one because there's a lot of speculation about it and not many facts," Dutton said. He said, for example, that it is unclear whether Iran is moving weapons into Iraq.

Dutton said Iraqi authorities 10 days ago made a large seizure of illegal weapons on Route 6, which runs north from Basra to Amarah in Maysan province.

"We don't know exactly where that came from," he said. "We are keen to find out and investigations are ongoing. There have been suggestions that they could have come from Iran, but I certainly can't prove that."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050805/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_iran;_ylt=AhHldsjmSpAkSYq1rHyiBBSShMgF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

don't they get AP at the NYT ?

[tocqueville]

24. once again : the British DENY it

Dutton said Iraqi authorities 10 days ago made a large seizure of illegal weapons on Route 6, which runs north from Basra to Amarah in Maysan province.

"We don't know exactly where that came from," he said. "We are keen to find out and investigations are ongoing. There have been suggestions that they could have come from Iran, but I certainly can't prove that."

Dutton is commander of a multinational coalition force in an area of Iraq where the Shiite branch of the Muslim faith is predominant, as it is in Iran

is Maj. Gen. Jim B. Dutton of the British Royal Marines a complete nut ?

[Gronk Groks]

5. They had to come up with something for the upcoming war...

...after all WMD and terrorists where not going to cut it this time.

Besides, what is another lie to this bunch? They're pathological already.

[Skittles]

20. LET'S BOMB IRAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

isn't that what these warmongering bastards want us to say? I don't believe a g.d. thing these liars say.

[Gronk Groks]

25. Of course they want to bomb Iran...

...and their timetable is way off. It makes it much easier to have an Empire when all the territories are contiguous

Example: Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq

Be afraid. Be VERY afraid. The Republic has fallen, the Empire is here!

Star Wars theme now playing in a White House near you !!!

[Benhurst]

6. I've heard that some of the bombs used in Iraq

are made in the United States. But, naw, that can't be true. Nothing much else is made there anymore.

[Up2Late]

12. They were made here when we actually had manufacturing...

...jobs and a Middle Class.

[Up2Late]

8. Yeah, but the crate they originally came in, says Made in the U.S.A.

A lot of the bombs are made from old artillery shells we sold them back in the 1970's and 80's!

[BlueEyedSon]

9. We must attack immediately.

We must fight them over there (Iran), so we don't have to fight them over there (Iraq)....

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

10. Bolton's in place at the UN...time to hype public into the next WAR.

And...so begins the timeline for the pre-2008 Iranian invasion to bolster and maintain the Repuke power grab.

JB

[krkaufman]

15. Unfortunately, we don't have the strength for a full-on war.

Look for missile/air strikes, and a stray nuke or three.

Joy to the World...

[tocqueville]

13. crude or sophisticated ?

"The bombs feature shaped charges, which penetrate armor by focusing explosive power in a single direction and by firing a metal projectile embedded in the device into the target at high speed. The design is crude but effective if the vehicle's armor plating is struck at the correct angle, the experts said."

"These are among the most sophisticated and most lethal devices we've seen,"

in the same article !

[oneighty]

35. Sophisticated and lethal devices

Shaped charges are rather simple and easy to make.

"Like wow man they using the dreaded shaped charges."

or

"Like wow man they using the dreaded C-4."

These things are hyped now to replace the dreaded WMDs.

IMHO.

180

[Fridays Child]

14. What next? Some are made in blue states?

Come to think of it, that might actually be closer to the truth.

[Mika]

16. Juan Cole does some debunking on this..

.. here

[Kelvin Mace]

17. Juan Cole debunked this bullshit

arlier in the article it was alleged that the supposedly captured shipment came from northeastern Iran. Yet by this later paragraph, the US military intelligence guys can't tell whether it came from the west or the east, or whether it came from Iran or Hizbullah. But if you don't know whether something comes from Lebanon or Iran, then you really don't know where it came from at all, do you? Lebanon and Iran are not like each other. One speaks Persian, the other Arabic. Why, they aren't even close to one another.

Do you notice how Hizbullah (Hezbollah), which is Shiite, is in southern Lebanon, way over in the west of the map, on the Mediterranean? Do you notice how northeastern Iran (also Shiite) is way over to the east of the map, near the Caspian sea? Do you notice how there isn't any way to get from Lebanon to Iran except through Syria and then Turkey? Do you notice how there isn't any way to get from Lebanon to Iraq except via Syria or Syria-and-Jordan? (You could fly, but if the Lebanese government is permitting air transport of 500 pound bombs out of Beirut, we have other problems than just some Iraqi arms smuggling).

Do you notice how there are 250,000 tons of missing munitions in Iraq, such that it is not necessary for the Baath military intelligence to import very many from elsewhere?

http://www.juancole.com/2005/08/fool-me-once-shame-on-you-fool-me-cant.html

[firefox]

18. The warmongers have no credibility

It may or may not be so. Just because the NYT repeats government statements in no way means they are true.

The big picture is that Bu$h started an illegal war. If he had not done that or admitted his blunder, we would not be wondering if this is true or not.

[mikehiggins]

19. Just off hand? FIrst imprssion? LIES LIES LIES LIES etc eom

[mike_c]

21. I wonder how many were made in the U.S...

...or were made from munitions supplied by the U.S.?

[AtomicKitten]

22. Thanks NY Times --

for taking up the slack while your head propaganidist is in jail.

I guess this is a head's up that we'll be invading Iran soon, and then Syria ...

[NNN0LHI]

23. When did Judith Miller get out of the slammer? This has to be her story nt

[Gronk Groks]

26. Can you post from a Jail Cell ???

Or maybe it is just done over the phone, like the old days.
Or maybe Judith Miller was just the propaganda outlet of the day.

[iconoclastic cat]

29. Come on, let's twist again!

Like we did that summer!

[still_one]

31. for the sake of argument lets say it is true

that is weapons being used by the insurgants are supplied by Iran

If that is so, then the war is over. Iran is a Shiite country, and sixty percent of the Muslims in Iraq are Shiites. We would NEVER be able to occupy or win. We are in the middle surrounded by hostile forces

If the neocons, and the bush administration believe that by expanding the war into Iran would help resove the war, they are sadly mistaken. It would unite the Shiite's as we could NOT imagine

Would Congress be just as STUPID as they were by giving bush the authorization to go into Iraq, to go into Iran?

[zippy890]

33. NYT = US Military propaganda

This article is not written objectively with a critical view of the sources.

I am getting angry about such so-called journalism, as the NYT continues to repeat 'US military and intelligence officials' statements without questioning such information.

The focus of this article should be the highlighted phrase:

But just as troubling is that the spread of the new weapons seems to suggest a new and unusual area of cooperation between Iranian Shiites and Iraqi Sunnis to drive American forces out - a possibility that the commanders said they could make little sense of given the increasing violence between the sects in Iraq.

A good journalist would take this information, and with an open mind pursue and investigate this very fact -- that it doesn't make sense ---and see where it goes.

Why does the NYT continue to lower the bar on journalistic standards?

[kohodog]

34. The drum beat is getting louder

I hear the wheels of rationalization starting to turn. Fortunately iran doesn't have an evil leader on the level of Saddam to villify. It's going to be a bit harder for the neocons to sell this one.

[annabanana]

36. Eric Schmitt's most recent articles

at the NYT, don't scream mockingbird.. but THIS one sure looks like he's taking up Judy's mantle. Is there any reason this ordinance COULDN'T have come from Al QuaQua?

[enough]

37. Folks, we have to refute this bogus story, with Cole's help.

It is getting lost on DU in the excitement of other stories. We can't let them run this global scam again.

READ THIS:

http://www.juancole.com/2005/08/fool-me-once-shame-on-you-fool-me-cant.html

[Joanne98]

38. Wayne Madsen says ask Dick Cheney about the new bombs....

Thanks to the wary eye of a reader of WMR, it is important to note that the "shaped charges" the neo-cons are accusing Iran and Hezbollah of supplying to Iraqi insurgents are, according to Lawrence Livermore Labs, most extensively use in the oil and gas industry where they open up the rock around drilled wells.

http://www.llnl.gov/str/Baum.html

Perhaps someone should ask Mr. Cheney where the insurgents are acquiring the shaped charges in Iraq. Halliburton, perhaps?

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

Which dovetails nicely with this report....

By Jason Leopold -- World News Trust

Scandal-plagued Halliburton -- the oil services company once headed by Vice President Cheney -- sold an Iranian oil development company key components for a nuclear reactor, say Halliburton sources with intimate knowledge into both companies’ business dealings.

Halliburton was secretly working at the time with one of Iran’s top nuclear program officials on natural gas related projects and sold the components in April to the official's oil development company, the sources said.

Just last week, a National Security Council report said Iran was a decade away from acquiring a nuclear bomb. That time frame could arguably have been significantly longer if Halliburton, whose miltary unit just reported a 284 percent increase in its second quarter profits due to its Iraq reconstruction contracts, was not actively providing the Iranian government with the means to build a nuclear weapon.

With Iran's new hardline government now firmly in place, Iranian officials have rounded up relatives and close business associates of Iran's former President and defeated mullah presidential candidate Hashemi Rafsanjani, alleging the men were involved in widespread corruption of Iran's oil industry, specifically tied to the country's business dealings with Halliburton.

(more)

http://worldnewstrust.org/modules/AMS/article.php?story...


Is Cheney and Halliburton selling the insurgents the "shaped charges" that they are killing all the Marines?