Suspect's Death In Wal-Mart Parking Lot Raises Questions

[baldguy]

Stacy Driver, 30, was chased into the parking lot on F.M. 1960 East near Atascocita Road and detained Sunday at about 2 p.m.

Officials said he struggled with security guards and then stopped breathing.
...
There are conflicting reports on whether anyone performed CPR.

"I do know that the Wal-Mart employees said they did administer CPR while waiting for EMS to arrive," Martin said.
...
"Given the fact that he was found in a face-down position with handcuffs still on him, it would be highly unlikely that chest compressions had been done at that point and time," (the EMS supervisor) said.

Witnesses also said that the security guards did not perform CPR and left Driver face-down on the pavement.

more:
http://www.click2houston.com/news/4821881/detail.html?subid=22100412&qs=1;bp=t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. So the kid got the death penalty for stealing

[LisaL]

3. He was 30. I don't think he can be considered a kid.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Compared to me

that's a kid ;)

[Occulus]

20. His age is of no consequence.

We do not inflict the penalty of death for theft in America. Anyone who does, or tries, deserves to spend the rest of their lives behind bars.

[Judi Lynn]

24. I found a longer story in the Houston Chronicle......

Excerpt:

Driver lived in Cleveland, where his parents own a small business, Lindeman said. Driver was a master carpenter with a 2-month-old son and was about halfway through taking flying courses to get his pilot's license, Lindeman said.Employees told investigators Driver had walked out the store with a package of diapers, a pair of sunglasses, a BB gun and a package of BBs, Martin said.

Lindeman said otherwise. "It's our belief he was not shoplifting," he said.

Houston lawyer Charles Portz was outside the store at 6626 FM 1960 East when employees chased Driver into the parking lot Sunday afternoon.Portz said three employees caught Driver, who twisted and turned until his shirt came off and he broke free and ran.

"They chased him right past me," said Portz, who followed the chase, then saw four or five employees hold Driver on the ground. Driver was pleading with them to let him up, Portz said. "The blacktop was just blistering," he said.

The high temperature at Bush Intercontinental Airport Sunday was 96 degrees.Portz said one of the Wal-Mart employees had Driver in a choke hold as other employees pinned his body to the ground.

"He was begging, 'Please, I'm burning, let me up,' " Portz said of Driver. "He'd push himself up off the blacktop, like he was doing a push-up.

"About 30 people were saying, 'Let him up, it's too hot,' " Portz said. He said another employee brought a rug for Driver to lie on, but one of those holding Driver said he was fine where he was. "After about five minutes, (Driver) said, 'I'm dying, I can't breathe, call an ambulance,' " Portz said.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3301862
(Free registration required)

[charlie]

29. Oh, maaaan

I doubt these hardass-playing bozos will skate, manslaughter convictions for the lot of them. They cooked him in front of a crowd...

*BOGGLING*

[soup]

36. Thanks, Judi Lynn.

Still doesn't make sense, does it?

>>After Driver was handcuffed, Portz said one employee had his knee on the man's neck and others were putting pressure on his back.

"Finally the guy stopped moving" and the employees got off him, Portz said. "They wouldn't call an ambulance.<<

What the hell? Were these all Loss Prevention Personnel, or did other employees just pile on, too? When were emergency services finally called? When were the police called?

and then, this confusing bit:

>>Store employees told investigators Driver entered the store with an item marked with a sticker indicating it had been paid for, then switched the sticker to a more expensive item and tried to leave with it.<<

The diapers, the sunglasses or the bb gun? Whatever took place, he sure didn't deserve to die for it. Another one for the 'wonder if we'll ever know what really happened?' category.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

37. Can you believe the apologists on this thread saying he got what

he deserved?

[H5N1]

39. Mind boggling, isn't it?

[saigon68]

40. I can believe it

We have a lot of right wing DINOS, who love it when the cops kick the shit out of someone

Or when the troops "grease" an Iraqi

[Eloriel]

45. Heartbreaking -- even if he were guilty as sin, simply heartbreaking

And so unnecessary.

[rainbow4321]

35. TX case: "Death penalty" for unpaid parking ticket warrant

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/080905dnmetallen.d255aba.html


Two Allen police officers were placed on administrative leave Monday and an investigation was launched, four days after a man they attempted to arrest had to be hospitalized. Edgar A. Vera remained in critical condition in a brain-dead state on Monday, family members said. Mr. Vera's family said that the department's decision to suspend the officers comes after pressure and media attention over the weekend.

The two officers arrived in the 1500 block of Mahogany Drive in response to a call about a suspicious person. They discovered that Mr. Vera had an outstanding warrant from Irving, Capt. Flores said.

Police said Mr. Vera, an immigrant from Peru, resisted arrest and struggled against officers. After an "extended period of time," Capt. Flores said the officers used pepper spray on Mr. Vera in accordance to the department's use-of-force policy. The spray had little effect, and the struggle continued, he said. And then Mr. Vera stopped breathing.

"It's hard to understand," Mr. Pacchioni said. "How do you put someone in this condition for a minor violation? ... This is something that happened two years ago, a ticket he forgot to pay. Now he's lying there brain-dead."

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Excuse me? I am not justifying stealing but once someone is in someone

else's custody and not in control of their physical body, then those in control have a DUTY to look out for the well being of those in their custody whether they be police or security personnel.

This is America. People do not get the death penalty for petty theft.

[Eloriel]

43. And they don't usually get the death penalty until after

CONVICTION, either.

[CEShooter]

6. confused

Where does it say that the individual couldn't afford it? I'm not saying the outcome was adequate for the crime, but who's to say that this theft wasn't commited for thrills or greed?

Also, how can you condone stealing? I would be highly surprised if you house was broken into and someone stole your belongings you wouldn't call the police based upon the assumption that whoever stole it couldn't afford to pay for it themselves.

[Horse with no Name]

7. The guy stole diapers

Sounds to me like he was desperate.
How greedy is that? I heard the black market on "hot" Pampers is "to die for".:sarcasm:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

9. This is a social issue when we have a failing economy and

as I stated in another thread, justice is supposed to be tempered with mercy. Where was the mercy to this guy for stealing diapers for his baby?

[CEShooter]

10. Nice try

I'm sure he stole the BB gun, BB's, and sunglasses for his infant too.:sarcasm:

Thanks for throwing that little half-truth in there. It made me go back and read the article and see exactly what he stole.

Now, a quick show of hands, how many of you out there have been to the point of desperation of stealing a BB gun and BB's or else your families welfare would have suffered?

I count 3 of 4 items that I can't find even a remote reason to call them a daily neccessity. How about we settle on this theft was based overwhelmingly on greed? This person stole from others based upon greed and wound up paying the consequences. I'm still not saying that he deserved what he got, however he was guilty of stealing for his own greedy reasons and the his death was set in motion based upon a scenario that he initiated.

[Horse with no Name]

11. or...

the other items were planted on him after he died.
I'm sorry.
I don't buy your scenario.

[CEShooter]

13. Lie to yourself all you want

If you honestly believe that a Wal-Mart employee/cop went all the way to the back of the store (bypassing countless other items to "plant" on the thief) to the hunting department and picked up a BB gun and BB's and then went to a completly different department to pick up a pair of sunglasses then you have my admiration for believing in something so irrational and sticking by it. And I won't even get into that probably dozens of cameras would have had to catch an employee making those rounds to collect the "planted evidence" and that employee suddenly forgets or avoids all those cameras. Give me a break.

Sorry if I'm harsh on this one. I've had things that I worked long and hard for stolen from me before and I have no pity for those whom steal.

[anotherdrew]

14. Not easy to shoplift diapers and BBguns...

He probably just walked out with the stuff. Await toxicology report... drunk and/or meth? Still Wal Marties didn't do anything helpful for him, no way he should have been left face down on pavement... what was the heat like? Charges should be files against the employees... reckless endagerment at least.

[sendero]

16. You know what?

I don't give a shit if he stole 1000 dollars worth of stuff. If the fucking security guards did ANYTHING that caused his death, they should be tried for manslaughter.

Here is a news flash for you. The law allows for the use of deadly force in the case of a property crime only in limited circumstances, and of course it varies by state.

You do believe in the rule of law, don't you? Fine, if the guards did their jobs within the law, they should be fine. If they didn't, there will be hell to pay, and they'll get no sympathy from me, we're talking about a person's life here.

[Gemini Cat]

25. Right. Yes, of course.

A walmart employee in a depressed job market would NEVER help plant evidence on ANYBODY. Their high paying jobs are so secure as such. To suggest that such dishonesty would be asked of them by the management, is pure poppy-cock.
Therefore, the unwashed thug received exactly what he deserved. :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[acmavm]

38. Watch out. Maybe some day you'll need a good dose of pity, and

voila, you may be shit out of luck yourself.

What have you had stolen from you, what could you possible own, that's worth a human life?

[Eloriel]

48. Or, he didn't steal them at all -- it was all a mistake

My own brother was accosted in the parking lot by a Home Depot employee not long ago (thankfully not in TX or HE might be dead now), and had to show his receipt for a big ole pile of lumber. It was embarrassing since there were onlookers, but at least not deadly. MISTAKES HAPPEN. This one is under dispute. HE HADN'T BEEN CONVICTED.

And, as I pointed out upthread, even if he had been convicted, even if he had been guilty, no pile of wal-mart shit is worth lsoing your life over, and NO EXCUSES can be made for killing someone and that kind of abuse of power and use of excessive force.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tibbir]

17. It doesn't matter worth a rat's ass what he stole

If they left him face down after handcuffing him and he died the guards are the ones who did the most harm. Whatever he stole he didn't deserve to be left to die.

[Occulus]

21. He could have stole a $9000 diamond and platinum bracelet

IT STILL DOES NOT MEAN HE HAS TO DIE AS A PUNISHMENT.

Further, no private security- such as WalMart or Meijer- has the authority to mete out punishment. That is strictly the purview of the courts... unless, of course, you're a rabid free-market worshipper of capitalism, and believe the market can solve all ills. Then, you almost have to have judges and tribunals in-house. :sarcasm:

I cout 0 of 4 items in this story that rate a death penalty. Explain again why you aren't taking issue with the fact that something priceless- a life- was lost, in the name of items worth a hundred bucks or so TOPS.

Explain that to us, would you? Please? I'd love to hear how you can justify killing someone when they steal something from you.

[ninkasi]

28. If death is a just punishment for petty theft...

then Ken Lay, Dick Cheney, and * himself would have all been executed by now. Of course, being the important people they tell us they are, they are alive because they stole billions, instead of a relatively small amount.

This country's values are seriously skewed, and we need to face reality. The economy is screwed up, we are in a war that we should never have started, the treasury is being drained, and some of us get all pompous and pontificate about the law?

I am a law abiding citizen, which is more than the above mentioned can claim. The rent-a-cops were wrong, and should be punished accordingly.

[fleabert]

53. self delete

replied to wrong post...sorry

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

22. Even a bb gun is petty theft so it can't be the greed you allege

And we don't know that he is guilty of stealing. He could have had nothing on him and the store employees planted something on him since they pursued him and he died...it could happen.

[Bridget Burke]

31. Do you consider BB guns too wimpy to be a necessity?

For a "shooter"--perhaps you'd have more respect if he'd allegedly stolen something more powerful.

We have a legal system in the USA. It's not perfect, but preferable to a bunch of WalMart geeks playing judge, jury & executioner.

[alarimer]

33. So he should end up dead for it?

That is unbelievably callous.

[Bassic]

34. And so what he deserved frying on the pavement?

[TheWatcher]

27. Oh, That's Rich

"Also, how can you condone stealing?"

Well, we've allowed you to make it to 13 Posts so far. Hey, we're compassionate libruls.

Perhaps you can point out where someone on this thread condoned stealing.

[Tsiyu]

32. Don't be confused

Move somewhere where there isn't a Constitution, and where you can just execute people whenever you feel like it. If you want to live in America, you will have to get UNCONFUSED about due process.

This is a despicable way to die. WalMart is now not only a greedy, bloodsucking blight on our towns, it is now a detention/execution facility!

One more reason I will NEVER shop at WalMart again. I do not miss that nasty chain one bit. This solidifies my loathing of those who own them.

[fleabert]

55. 3...2...1....

[warrens]

15. Looks like those security guys are in trouble

Procedure is to let the guy get a couple of feet out of the store, then force him back in. Throwing him on the ground and cuffing him is not in their book. If there's violence they're supposed to let the guy go and call the cops and trail him.

[Orsino]

18. They had to clock out in the middle of CPR. n/t

[daleo]

19. A most peculiar story

I hope we hear more. I think there is more to it than meets the eye. He may have had a mental illness or incapacity of some kind, reading between the lines.

On edit - I don't mean to imply that would excuse the incident - it sounds like the security guards were negligent to me. But details are rather sparse, so that's just a hunch.

[Judi Lynn]

23. Anyone who harbors a murderous hatred toward someone

who has been stopped for suspicion of shoplifting in a newspaper story they've read is carrying a full load.

Abnormal.

Fortunately, the law STILL purports to be several steps above mad dog reactions. Death is STILL not the penalty for shoplifting. No qualifications can apply.

[area51]

30. death of Stacy Driver

Two things stand out to me. One, the fact that the Mall-Wart employees identify so much w/their corporate bosses (who no doubt are fscking them over w/low pay & prob. no bennies) that they'd leave a man to die on hot asphalt as punishment; and two, that this happens after the abuses were revealed at Gitmo & Abu Ghraib, where torture was condoned. Too many people in this country seem a-okay w/torture being meted out.

[Judi Lynn]

41. Update on this story from Houston:

Aug. 10, 2005, 1:18AM

Experts discourage using force in shoplifting cases
The tactics used on suspect who died puts focus on Wal-Mart's policy
By ROBERT CROWE
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle



Stacy Driver, shown with his father, Huey,
in this family photo, died Sunday in the
custody of Wal-Mart employees after they
struggled to detain him in handcuffs for
suspected shoplifting.

Security experts discourage the aggressive tactics used by Wal-Mart employees who struggled with a suspected thief who later died.
(snip)

When witness Charles Portz saw the employees struggling with Driver on the parking lot pavement, he did not see any of the alleged stolen items but the sunglasses.

"That's what got my attention, the employee kicked him in the back of the leg, knocked him off balance then they just threw him down to ground," Portz said.
(snip)

The company, however, is widely known for its aggressive prosecution of shoplifters, said Sgt. Jeff Stauber of the Sheriff's Department burglary and theft division.

Its aggressiveness also has led to a number of civil lawsuits for false imprisonment and malicious prosecution.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3303871

[Glenda]

42. Wow! That's insane! n/t

[HeeBGBz]

46. I hope they sue the hell out of those dumbasses

Or send them all to Iraq

[progressivebydesign]

44. I find that not breaking the law reduces my chances of dying like that..

..it's kind of a common sense thing.

[HeeBGBz]

47. You better hope you are never mistakenly accused

By some dumbfuck Walmart employee with a Rambo itch.

[Eloriel]

50. Such a shame you're content to live in a country where that kind of

situation is entirely acceptable to you. Too bad you (a) judge the guy guilty and (b) think his life is worth so damned little and (c) don't give a damn about the civil rights of anybody.

I'm not typically one to be vengeful, but in your case I'll make an exception:

I hope to GAWD some day you are in the very same situation this poor jerk was in, facing an unreasonable loss of your civil liberties, excessive force, abuse of power -- but unlike this 30-year old husband, son and father of a toddler, I hope you are able to live through your ordeal so you can learn to understand and later bear witness to the importance of our Constitutional protections for ALL who live in this country, even criminals, even "bad people," even despicable degenerates whom our Founding Fathers still thought needed to be treated humanely because WE were better than that and if the despicable among us aren't protected, the best citizens among us can't be protected either.

[loudsue]

51. And as long as WalMart employees get to decide whether you

broke the law, or NOT, is ok with you, as well? If I were you, I'd prefer to have a jury of my peers review the store tapes, question you, check your receipts, question witnesses, and determine if you REALLY DID STEAL, or if some quick-on-the-draw employees just THOUGHT you might have stolen something.

THAT is why we're a NATION OF LAWS, not a nation of lynch mobs. Are you willing to give up your freedom and your LIFE on the "opinion" of some WalMart employees? Or, if this happened to you, or someone in your family, would you want a real trial? If not, there are several countries that you might relocate to, where they will gladly kill you on the spot if they "think" you might have stolen something. And the really GOOD news is, you get to kill someone else if you "think" they did something wrong.

I'll bet you'd like that.

:kick:

[Clovis Sangrail]

49. people suck a**

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3301862
-------------
"About 30 people were saying, 'Let him up, it's too hot,' " Portz said. He said another employee brought a rug for Driver to lie on, but one of those holding Driver said he was fine where he was. "After about five minutes, (Driver) said, 'I'm dying, I can't breathe, call an ambulance,' " Portz said.
-------------

30 frickin' people watching and nobody clocked the asshole who had a knee in the guys neck?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

It's things like this that make me despondent about humanity.
Not because of what the employees did, but because of how many people just stood by and watched as the employees did it.

I hope everyone who was there (especially the employees) relives this in nightmares for the rest of their lives.

[panzerfaust]

52. (Private) Police State

Police State: a political system based upon the right and power of the police to be judge, jury, and executioners.

God Bless the New America

[fleabert]

54. having worked in loss prevention before, those employees were WAY

out of line to chase him. I would have fired anyone who risked their life for petty shoplifting, of course they would have been told this in training before they ever hit the floor to work.

That they felt it was worth it to chase this man, pin him down on the blacktop, and not relent to his pleas is disturbing. that product is but a drop in the bucket to Wal-Mart, and if the company really cared about retaining it, their folks should be trained on proper loss prevention methods. (meaning: It shouldn't ever leave the store! Once it is hidden from view and goes past the cashier, that's when you bust them! And if they hit pavement, go back inside and write down a description for the cops. period. that's it.)

A friend of mine in High School nearly died chasing a shoplifter. Was run over TWICE, trying to 'save' about twenty CD's. Utterly ridiculous.