Suit: Residents harassed into Bible study

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-suit09.html

Residents of a Westmont public housing complex for seniors said in a federal lawsuit filed Monday that they were coerced and harassed by management into practicing Christianity and pressured to attend Bible study classes.

Five former and current residents of the complex, along with housing advocate Hope Fair Housing, are suing the complex and its property manager, saying they used "coercive, harassing and restrictive rules and regulations to impose their 'Christian' beliefs upon current residents."

Hope Fair Housing, based in Wheaton, also alleges the complex only invites low-income Chinese tenants and discriminates against any other potential residents.

The defendants in the case include the Illinois Chinese American Residence for the Elderly, 501 N. Cass Ave. in Westmont, Angela Yuan, president of the board of directors, and Providence Management and Development Company Inc.

[Wetzelbill]

1. that's weird

Harassing people is really bad. I can see if they are religious and want to share with others, but harassing goes too far.

[Bluebear]

2. Exactly the problem with "faith-based charities" receiving tax dollars

This will be going on all over the place.

[rodeodance]

3. they hid in bathrooms so would not be forced to attend. Whow.

.......Elderly non-Christian residents of the 60-unit complex said they live in a "religiously hostile and intimidating environment," where they are barred from using common rooms for anything non-Christian, including card playing, according to the lawsuit.

Plaintiffs Shen Tong Bea Tu, 87, and Yue Ru Lee, 86, who are non-Christian, say they hid in their apartment bathrooms with the lights off every Wednesday so they wouldn't be forced to attend Bible classes.

Other tenants claim in the lawsuit that Yuan visited them individually and demanded they kneel down with her and pray after she learned they had played Mah Jongg, a Chinese game similar to dominoes, in the building.

Yuan was not available for comment, but her husband, reached at home late Monday, said his wife volunteered her time at the complex for 20 years with the intention of helping the needy........

[Clark2008]

4. Mah Jongg is evil now? Why pray after playing?

Cripes. These fundies don't want even an ounce of fun, do they? To them fun=evil.

[Klapaucius]

6. Fun as evil...

That is exactly what some of them think. I recall several years ago a fellow agnostic and I having a spirited 'discussion' with a street preacher shouting at the top of his lungs in the middle of Pioneer Square ( Portland OR ). Eventually we got around to asking a few other questions, and the mans spouse unequivocally equated fun with evil. Scary thought.

K.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. I know which street preacher you mean

He harangued the demonstrators at the counter-inauguration in Pioneer Courthouse Square in January 2001, and when some of us liberal Christians formed a circle around him and prayed aloud that he be delivered from the demon of hatred he freaked and started screaming that we shouldn't touch him (we weren't) and that if we touched him it was assault.

One of the other people in the circle commented, "He acts as if he does have a demon."

[Klapaucius]

31. we were there for that, too...

nt.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

12. are you still in Portland?

We had a MeetUp last week, another is being planned for next month...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4285043

:)

[TlalocW]

26. Ha

I tricked a Latina friend of mine (who used to own a discotech) into dancing with me in front of a preacher who showed up at our college to call us all fornicators and whore-mongers. It was perfect timing as he had just finished up talking about the evils of just about all genres of music as well as dancing, and I spotted her coming and asked her to show me once again the salsa step she had been trying to teach me. So we started dancing salsa in front of the guy and amidst dozens of other students, and he started freaking out and yelling at her (not me). She figured out the joke (thought it was funny, thank goodness) and argued with him for a while before going to her next class.

TlalocW

[Chovexani]

29. Ha ha!

Here in NYC we have those guys too but mostly we have preachers that like to get on the subway and go from car to car telling everyone they're going to hell unless they find Jesus. One night my then-gf and I were coming home from a goth club (so we were all done up in makeup and elaborate outfits, etc), and there was this particularly obnoxious black preacher going on and on about how Satan is destroying the black family with homosexuality, and abortion, and interracial marriages (not necessarily in that order, I guess) and black women need to return to our place and have babies for the race, etc. My girlfriend was the whitest white girl ever...I mean she was like this six-foot tall Nordic valkyrie, blonde hair (though she'd bleached it bone white at the time), blue eyes, etc. So when the preacher was going on and on about lesbians, he was right in front of us, and gf looks dead at him and shouts "I LOVE MY NUBIAN GODDESS!" and frenches me right there. :D

Shut him up but good...he spluttered something about demons of lesbianism and then ran to the next car. Everyone was laughing their ass off.

[TlalocW]

32. Ha-Ha-Ha!

I became known as Gay-Monkey-Man because at one point when he was discussin homosexuality, I yelled at him to explain why homosexuality is seen in other animals. Since if they have no souls, they can't be sinning. He thought for a second then said, "God gave man dominion over the earth, and man's sin covers the earth..." so it was basically mankind's fault.

I replied, "So there are two gay monkeys in Africa going at it right now, and it's our damn fault? Are you on something?"

He then chose to ignore me, but I would periodically yell out, "Tell us about the gay monkeys, damn it!"

I would hear, "Hey, Gay-Monkey-Man," on a routine basis when walking through the food court in the Student Union. When I moved to Tulsa (all this took place at Oklahoma State University), I went to a lecture by James "The Amazing" Randi, and I was the fourth person in the room before the lecture started. Randi was setting up, and there was a couple already in their seats. They looked at me as if they recognized me, and after a while, the girl said, "Excuse me, but are you Gay-Monkey-Man?"

:)

TlalocW

[muriel_volestrangler]

8. It's got dragons in it

It's the Harry Potter of China!

[Chovexani]

28. As best I can tell

I guess it's because there's a lot of gambling associated with mah jongg. But it's not like these folks were going to mah jongg parlors or anything, they were just a couple of old folks trying to have a good time.

And anyway even if it was the most evil thing in the world, who the fuck are these people to be all in their grill about it? That's probably the number one reason why I can't stand fundies, they are constantly trying to get in other people's business.

[BiggJawn]

18. Gee...Hiding in Bathrooms...

When people in the Soviet Union did that to read Bibles, it was called oppression. Wonder what THIS could be called?

This is what will happen when social services are all outsourced to "Faith-Based Organizations".

Just like the homeless shelters run by churches in Indianapolis. No "Sinner's Prayer", no Soup and Sammich. It's just THAT SIMPLE.

[mopinko]

10. yup

that's the whole point of faith based initiatives, to spread the faith. their denials of this are pure bs. and even if they weren't, there are no safeguards against this shit. except lawsuits like this.
and we can count of plenty of faith based theft, where the faithful would not dream of turning in their 'man of god'

[Judi Lynn]

5. Many people are totally non-confrontational.

They could go through absolute hell before they'd decide for sanity's sake to get a lawyer.

I have a feeling people who have been driven to have to turn off their lights and hide have been tormented way too long.

Their tormentors are sadists, not "good-hearted." I've seen more than enough busy bodies like them. I hope they get smacked down but hard legally.

[ananda]

7. they prolly operate..

.. by the Dubya Standard.. one standard for xtians and another for everybody else.

[ArthurRuger]

14. God's Favored Few

"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
Jerry Falwell

More of the favored:

"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."
Bailey Smith

"The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise. Those who refuse to submit publicly to the eternal sanctions of God by submitting to His Church's public marks of the covenant-baptism and holy communion-must be denied citizenship."
"This is God's world, not Satan's. Christians are the lawful heirs, not non-Christians."
Gary North (Institute for Christian Economics

"When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."
Gary Potter (Catholics for Christian Political Action)

"We are to make Bible-obeying disciples of anybody that gets in our way."
Jay Grimstead (Coalition on Revival)

[YOY]

15. Garry Potter isn't even a clergyman

He's just a parishoner with a political agenda.

Good Catholics ignore him.

Personally, I try not to hate him, but it is not easy.

[AndyTiedye]

27. They CAN'T AFFORD a Lawyer! They are Poor!

That is why they are in low-income housing in the first place.
Since they finally did get to bring it to court, they must have
found someone who would do it pro-bono. Maybe the ACLU helped
them out.

[JNelson6563]

9. If they tried that here

they'd leave crying after a bible-study with me. ;-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. Wheaton, Illinois

home of one of the biggest evangelical (not quite fundamentalist) colleges in the country.

[Qanisqineq]

17. is that anywhere near the gigantic cross in Effingham, IL?

I lived in Illinois for over 4 years and have no idea. But I've seen the enormous cross. Good grief that thing is a monstrosity.

Edit: I googled it and the cross is 198 feet tall.
http://www.route40.net/culture/attractions-il.shtml

[Lydia Leftcoast]

22. I'm not up on my Chicago suburbs, but Wheaton College is

one of the few evangelical/fundamentalist colleges that is considered academically respectable.

[Walt Starr]

16. Ahhhh, finally. The melding of Church with privatized government

I knew this would not be long in the offing.

[Supersedeas]

25. Exactly what I was thinking--want benefits: then simply attend meetings

[ArthurRuger]

19. How Dare You Laugh?

We need to teach our kids not to laugh. So as the world turns according to Dobson ...

I should train them from childhood with the imposition of the following imagined reality:

Kids, the world is a dangerous place. I can’t tell you why God made it that way but He did and the path is hard, cruel, dangerous and strictly unforgiving if you should make a misstep and don't feel guilty and repent. You can’t see it, but all around you in the spiritual world (it’s the world where God, Jesus and Satan dwell) there’s a war going on. In that world, it’s a war just as mean as the war you see on TV, as the video games where you can pretend to shoot and kill people and the movies about war, drugs and sex. It's not funny kids so no laughing.

Sometimes, when we least expect it, that war gets too powerful and that causes God, Jesus and Satan to have to reach across the spirit boundary and try to get more of us human beings on their side.

God and Jesus try to get our help by sending us wise preachers who will tell us all we ever need to know about righteousness and spiritual warfare. Satan, on the other hand, sneaks up on us when we least expect it and tries to make us laugh and trick us into doing things that make bigger bombs that explode for him in the spirit world.

God and Jesus will be easy to help because all you have to do is go to church, listen to what the wiser religious adults tell you, don’t ever disagree with them, don't make jokes and don't laugh at those who do.

But it will be easy for Satan to get your help because he will trick you into doing bad things that hurt God’s feelings, like laughing, and break God’s rules. When you do that, you set off bigger bombs for Satan in the spiritual warfare world.

Now remember that God and Jesus are tougher than Satan in that spirit war but victory really depends on how many righteous bombs or sin bombs get sent into the spirit world by what we do here. I don’t know why Satan can so easily get us to launch sin missiles in the spirit war, but it is easy for him. In fact, if you listen to the wise guys who do the preaching stuff here, they will tell you exactly how.

That’s why everyone at church is so serious. This is scary stuff and we don’t laugh about any of it.

But you ask, If God is tougher, why are things easier for Satan here?

I don’t rightly know. But the wise preachers will tell you that all earthlings have a path to walk that is like walking along a very narrow trail in the jungle where you don’t dare step off, even if there are lilies and other flowers you want to smell. They tell you that you must not look, must not stop and keep marching - and make sure you keep all those on the path with you in the line because it’s also your job to be a trail sheriff.

So just like you might be afraid that there are snakes under your bed at night when the room is dark and you’re worried about something, you need to be afraid - be very afraid - and vigilant your whole life that you don’t fall asleep and let the snakes climb up into bed with you.

If you think a funny thought, you will make a path from under your bed to right under your pillow. So don’t think funny thoughts.

It’s really a tough world kids. I’ve been a warrior for God now for 40 years and I’ve got scars that you all will get. Like me, you should grow up afraid, constantly on the watch for evil and ready to have God’s tattletale angels make note of your every mistake, no matter how tiny.

Like me, you may wind up with all the things that happen to people who grow up being vigilant and afraid. You might have high blood pressure, a short temper and not be willing to tolerate anybody who disagrees with you about the truth of what the wise preachers have taught you all their lives.

And above all, laughing is a sin. It’s evil, kids, and every time you feel a smile is going to get away from you and burst into a chuckle, remember, God is watching you and the angels are taking notes.

[ArthurRuger]

21. Apostrophe?

Sorry about all those. I didn't know an apostrophe is a sin.

What the heck did I do?

[ken-in-seattle]

23. did you..

cut and paste from a unicode enabled wordprocessor or web page?

[ArthurRuger]

33. "did you.."

I must have. I took it from an article I wrote a while back about Christian soberness.

[DanCa]

20. 1st ammendment rights

People have the right to practice religion, or not too as the case may be. What the repubs are doing is unconstitutional and unchristian.

[whatever4]

24. And so it begins, or would that be continues

Makes me so sick. Now they even have to harass the elderly.

Christians christians christians...they're so hell bent on saving us, but their faith interferes with their logic. After a while, even their humanity.

Know what I can't stand? The fact that there are so many people I know that are Christian that I HATE insulting, hate hurting their feelings or having them feel hatred toward me. But, at the same time, they feel free to be friends with OTHER types of Christians that would gladly STONE me, boot me out of the country, lock me up for my very thoughts.

So it's not so much that I want to take their religion from them, but, they simply cannot see that their "side" would see fit to take FAR MORE than my religion from ME.

Is it selfishness on their part, to hold on to a believe system and side with others who hold such horrid beliefs, and is it time for me to abandon any pretense of...friendship with them? How can I trust their feelings and their motivations when their OTHER friends are so, so, so hateful toward not only the likes of me, but of our entire nation and it's ideals?

I cannot find a meeting place, anymore. I used to be able to. And it really made me happy, back then, to even be able to discuss issues with devout Christians, as I was able to do after a few years of developing trust. It was nice, it really was. It gave me something back, after being honestly persecuted growing up, it made up for some of that. I began to believe in their forgiveness.

Then came Bush. The ultimate divider is he.

And far too ironic that, in the end, he's likely taken their religion from them. Because when it's all said and done, who will be proud to be Christian? In a crowd? I think they'll fairly well hide their crosses and pray silently; if Bush stands for Christianity, and the world hates the US, how will they keep their majority when he falls? How will they defend their actions? Christians will be seen as NOTHING but liars.

I tried to tell them that. They don't believe me.

They have faith. In Bush. The biggest liar of all. It's so god damned sad.

[demnan]

30. I hate Illinois Nazis