Senior General Is Relieved of Duties

[emad]

Senior General Is Relieved of Duties

Tuesday August 9, 2005 3:31 PM


WASHINGTON (AP) - The Army said Tuesday it relieved a four-star general of his command after an investigation into unspecified ``personal conduct.''

Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes was relieved as commander of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command on Monday by Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker, according to a brief statement issued by Army headquarters at the Pentagon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5199951,00.html

[meganmonkey]

1. Here's a link with a little more info

But still no detail about what this 'personal conduct' was...Hmmm...

http://www.sacbee.com/24hour/politics/story/2620210p-11092705c.html

[emad]

2. Thanks. Wonder if there's any connection to that Pentagon

bust of Larry Franklin the other day?

[havocmom]

4. No info on the reason? How about this is step one of the next Purge

of anyone who supportes the Constitution and OFFICE of the President more than any single squatter sitting in it? Will be interesting to see what else comes down. There has to be some brass with brass left somewhere who knows CIC stands for Coward in Crawford now.

[FloridaPat]

13. Step 1 occured years ago when * got rid of everyone at the top

who wouldn't support nuclear option for invading countries.

[havocmom]

35. That's why I said "next purge" There have already been a couple of them

[Mr. Peanut]

64. Remember the Admiral who committed suicide?

This could be over something ‘military’ and not ordinary. For example, Admiral Mike Boorda. He committed suicide because Newsweek was investigating him because of some of his medals:

Navy's top officer dies of gunshot, apparently self-inflicted

Letter left behind offers clues

May 16, 1996



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The nation's top Navy officer, Adm. Jeremy Michael Boorda, died Thursday from an apparently self-inflicted gunshot wound hours after learning Newsweek magazine was raising questions about the legitimacy of some of his combat medals.

...Sources said that in the typewritten note to the sailors, Boorda explained that he took his life because of the questions raised about his wearing of "V" for valor medals on his combat ribbon from Vietnam.

...According to Navy sources, the magazine claimed to have uncovered evidence that Boorda had for more than 20 years inappropriately displayed "V" for valor on the medals....

http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/16/boorda.6p/

[BulletproofLandshark]

65. I met Admiral Boorda once

He came to Naval Nuclear Power Training Command when I was going to my Machinist's Mate "A" School there. I actually had the chance to give him a hands-on demonstration of what we were studying that day. I even got my picture taken with him in the base newspaper, which for an 18-year-old who'd only been in the service for about 3 months was a pretty huge deal.

[charlie]

66. Boorda was a good guy

He could put all hands at ease, having come up from the enlisted ranks himself. Hackworth was the one dogging him when he shot himself, and I lost trust in that self-aggrandizing blowhard -- turned out that "the most decorated soldier in the history of the republic" had a few questionable medals of his own that he couldn't explain.

[Mr. Peanut]

74. Despite his suicide...

Boorda received some vindication two years after his death. In April 1998, Secretary of the Navy John Dalton inserted into Boorda's official record a letter declaring that Boorda was eligible to wear the decorations for his service in the Vietnam War. The letter does not officially resolve the questions as to whether Boorda was truly entitled to wear the pins, which would require a formal review by the Board for Correction of Naval Records.

http://www.newsaic.com/ftvjag07i.html

[Hayduke]

83. I also met Admiral Boorda

He started out as an enlisted man and never had the arrogance of most officers. It was not unusual for him to eat with the sailors in the mess instead of the wardroom. I had a lot of respect for him.

[dbeach]

90. suicides

plane crashes and mystery deaths seem to have increased since 11/22/63
but hey its amerika..can't hapen here//

[MADem]

93. I knew him and his wife very, very well

He had some emotional difficulties, but his heart was in the right place. For the record, it was the late David Hackworth who went after him, and who was damn ugly and meanspirited about it too--gleeful, frankly, up to the point when Mike went out into the garden and shot himself.

Mike was not always the easiest guy to get along with, he could be very difficult when he was being advised or cautioned about a course of action (a bit of the "shoot the messenger" attitude at times, you just had to shake it off and move on) but he really did care, and he gave his all to the Navy. You can't ask for much more than that.

I still miss him, warts and all.

[Tesha]

38. "Let's introduce my personal IED to your IUD, heh-heh-heh..." (NT)

[Tesha]

110. Aha! I got it right!

Aha! I got it right!

See:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1692823

[hack89]

71. Most personal conduct problems are zipper issues...

mainly keeping it shut around subordinates. Happens at least 2-3 times a year with senior military officers. They start thinking they are above the law.

[benburch]

3. Could he have been plotting against Fearless Leader?

Like Irwin Rommel did?

[havocmom]

5. benburch, you and I are on the same wavelength

^

[HeeBGBz]

41. That was my first thought

Usually they sweep all the sexual misconduct under the rug.

[Eloriel]

54. Would they have called that "personal" -- ? n/t

[seafan]

67. This is the most likely, IMHO. The only firings that ever seem to occur

with this administration are limited to those people who are truthful, try to expose wrongdoing or will not go along with outright treason.

That this man is a 4-star and has gotten the boot for vague "personal conduct" reasons is a red flag of * paranoia.

Something tells me that this is a watershed story that is just breaking wide open. We'll see.

[spotbird]

92. Treasury Secretary Snow

is a perfect example.

When the book about his experiences in the administration was released he was asked if he was worried about retaliation. He answered he wasn't worried because, "I'm old and I'm rich, there is nothing the can do to me." The dude hasn't done an interview since, it seems no man is an island and there were things they could do to him.

[MADem]

95. You are thinking of Paul O'Neill

He of the slipping dentures, who wrote the tell-all tome.

Snow is the drunk who currently holds the SECTREAS job.

[spotbird]

113. Right you are.

I'm getting old.

[MADem]

114. Me too!!!

Happens to the best of us. I console myself by telling myself that older IS wiser, most of the time. The odd brain fart is simply an annoying byproduct of the wisdom we accrue!

[papau]

68. He was a Iraq Abuse coverup person for those photo's getting out

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0710FA3F580C718DDDAA0894DD404482

Monday, March 14, 2005

Former Intelligence Officer Cleared in Iraq Abuse

A military investigation has cleared the former top intelligence officer in Iraq of responsibility for the policy and command failures that led to the abuse of detainees there, and the officer will assume a prestigious command next week, the Army said Friday.

The officer, Maj. Gen. Barbara G. Fast, served in Iraq from July 2003 to June 2004 as the intelligence deputy for Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the ground commander. In that capacity, she oversaw the interrogation center at Abu Ghraib prison, where repeated incidents of abuse led to courts-martial for some soldiers.

... Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, head of the Army's Training and Doctrine Command, said in a statement that General Fast would take command of the Army's Intelligence Center at Fort Huachuca, Ariz., on Wednesday.

General Fast was named last summer to take command of the center, the Army's training and doctrine headquarters for intelligence personnel, but remained in administrative limbo pending the outcome of the various reviews.

[MADem]

94. From TRADOC?? Most unlikely--I would bet NO

He would have been relieved for conduct unbecoming, insubordination, failure to obey, or because his superiors had "lost confidence in his ability to perform his duties" and the latter phrase is how they would have announced it.

Personal conduct means just that--PERSONAL conduct. As a poster astutely noted above, a zipper issue.

He was either schtuping a subordinate, gender unspecified, or a DOD civilian or contractor, or could have been bagged picking up a prostitute and the order for relief for cause came from the police report that is forwarded to the base JAG, who has no choice but to notify the chain above this guy.

If anyone from TRADOC is on this forum, I'd love to hear the gossip!

[geek tragedy]

6. I'd like to think it's something juicy, but it's probably either

substance abuse or financial kickbacks or something like that.

[tabasco]

14. Why would you like to think it's something juicy?

What exactly does "juicy" mean, anyway.

[geek tragedy]

15. Something damaging to aWol. eom

[htuttle]

19. Since when does the Bush mob fire people for financial kickbacks?

Or substance abuse, for that matter?

[geek tragedy]

42. You're probably right. He's probably gay or something like that. nt

[emad]

7. Analyst, lobbyists CHARGED in Pentagon probe FRANKLIN

http://p097.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=211.topic

[SoCalDem]

8. Did he have sex with someone?

That seems to be the biggest sin these days.

[anotherdrew]

11. that's what I'll bet on for now, sex with a subordinate

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. either that or telling Rumsfeld "no".

either is an actionable offense these days.

[ElectroPrincess]

105. IMO, most likely both ...

Gee, I've had inklings of many senior military officers bopping subordinates both at station AND on temporary duty elsewhere (TDY). Lots of horny senior officers who mirror the Type A business executive, power = hyper-active sex drive.

HOWEVER, usually these guys don't get busted except under two very important circumstances: 1) They've jumped the track and are open and overt with regard to sleazy fraternizing behavior; OR 2) They are just as discreet as the scores of other military officers BUT HAVE seriously pissed off one of *their superiors.*

Yes, payback is a MF and make no mistake the politics in the Officer Ranks is as cut-throat as the spectacles we must endure with our local and national elected representatives.

Methinks this high ranking General was BOTH having an affair and also pissed off Rummy or one of his boys (civilian PNAC pukes).

I only spent four years as an Active Duty Army Officer but it was long enough to fully understand the politics of promotion.

[kestrel91316]

20. Well then he must be a Democrat, because as we all know ............

inappropriate personal conduct is PERFECTLY OK IF YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN.

[tabasco]

18. That's my guess.

In fact, I'm already wondering what rank she was.

Unfortuately, it gives the neocons an opportunity to appoint a yes-man in a very important position. But I'm thinking Byrnes was already a yes-man anyway.

[Dover]

9. Abu Ghraib connection?

Pre-emptive to the release of the photos?

[papau]

69. He was indeed on the Iraq Abuse coverup team

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0710FA3F580C718DDDAA0894DD404482

Monday, March 14, 2005

Former Intelligence Officer Cleared in Iraq Abuse

A military investigation has cleared the former top intelligence officer in Iraq of responsibility for the policy and command failures that led to the abuse of detainees there, and the officer will assume a prestigious command next week, the Army said Friday.

The officer, Maj. Gen. Barbara G. Fast, served in Iraq from July 2003 to June 2004 as the intelligence deputy for Lt. Gen. Ricardo S. Sanchez, the ground commander. In that capacity, she oversaw the interrogation center at Abu Ghraib prison, where repeated incidents of abuse led to courts-martial for some soldiers.

... Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, head of the Army's Training and Doctrine Command, said in a statement that General Fast would take command of the Army's Intelligence Center at Fort Huachuca, Ariz., on Wednesday.

General Fast was named last summer to take command of the center, the Army's training and doctrine headquarters for intelligence personnel, but remained in administrative limbo pending the outcome of the various reviews.

[emad]

10. Update from the Guardian

In that post, Byrnes oversaw all Army training programs and the development of war-fighting guidelines.

Although disciplinary action against general officers is not uncommon, it is extremely rare for a four-star general to be relieved of command. Byrnes held the position as commander of Training and Doctrine Command since November 2002. Before that he was director of the Army staff at Army headquarters in the Pentagon.

``The investigation upon which this relief is based is undergoing further review to determine the appropriate final disposition of this matter,'' the Army statement said.

A spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Bryan Whitman, said the investigation involved ``matters of personal conduct,'' but he would not say more.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5200017,00.html

[Obamarama]

16. Byrnes's bio...

GENERAL KEVIN P. BYRNES
COMMANDING GENERAL
UNITED STATES ARMY TRAINING AND DOCTRINE COMMAND

General Byrnes assumed the duties of Commander, United States Army Training and Doctrine Command, on November 7, 2002, after serving as the Director, Army Staff.

General Byrnes, a native of New York, New York, was commissioned through the Officer Candidate School program in 1969. He was awarded a Bachelor of Arts in Economics from Park College in 1975, and a Master of Arts in Management from Webster University in 1985.

As TRADOC Commander, General Byrnes is responsible for recruiting, training and educating the Army's Soldiers; developing its leaders; supporting training in units; developing doctrine; establishing standards; and building the future Army. TRADOC is comprised of more than 50,000 Soldiers and Department of the Army civilians operating in 33 Army schools across 16 installations.

Rest of bio here:http://www-tradoc.army.mil/Bio.htm

[KittyWampus]

17. If He's Involved In Training... It's Gotta Suck Having To Push Through

unqualified soldiers and troops who won't be adequately armed and protected when they get into Iraq.

[whatever4]

21. Hmmmmmmmmm

Okay, it only stands to reason that any abuse on his part was tolerated, if not encouraged. A four star general is practically royalty in the military. As long as he put up the appropriate front, he could do just about anything he wanted. In Iraq, even the most violent of actions can be easily hidden, written off.

So, whatever he's accused of doing, or not doing, it has to be something embarassing. Something difficult to cover up. Something hurtful to the admin, for which they need to discredit him immediately.

They've got something on him. If it was your ordinary garden variety abusive/illegal activities...it wouldn't bother this admin a bit. Witness Bolton. Witness the prisons, the torture, the taking of prisoners just because they were home. This admin does NOT respect life, or welfare.

So, to me, it wasn't that he was an abusive monster or anything like that; it wouldn't bother the admin. They fairly well expect it.

Something embarassing, either he was caught and someone has proof of glaring abuse or misuse, or, he's not with "their" program, and they need to remove power from him immediately.

In my conspiracy-theory-ridden-brain, he's likely not with the Bush program. If he ever was, maybe he changed his mind. NO, they don't normally demote generals. Hell, look at Gonzales. They PROMOTE them.

If all he wanted was some kind of nookie on the side, and cash, the admin would consider it normal, and well worth the price of compensation for a four star general. Not even out of the ordinary. One phone call from the prez would have set him straight.

So perhaps he isn't listening to the prez. Hell, now I hope he comes home to the states. Hope he lives in DC too.

[MADem]

96. Embarrassing

Like: Driving drunk, duty officer had to go pick him up
OR: Sexual misconduct

No way this guy is anti-Bush. Bush gave him his fourth star, and that is a VERY personal pick (the selectees get grip and grins with the SECDEF and the Prez).

TRADOC is a cherry job, too. All the perks, but not as much strain as many **** assignments. It's out of the operational loop--you can get a good night's sleep most nights.

This guy got caught doing something wrong, either drunk or in a compromised position, and there was no covering it up. I'll bet this guy is a dyed in the wool GOP type.

Remember Shinseki? He was Clinton's guy, which is part of the reason why he had to be marginalized.

At three stars and up, it is all political. And it is a damn minefield when the WH changes parties....

[CrackpotAmerica]

22. 4 Star General "Relieved of Command" Developing Story

Get it here:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/09/general.relieved.ap/index.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. Was the commander of TRADOC critical of Bush?

[Eloriel]

55. I think you've got it -- that's my feeling, anyway

Sexual harrassment, even rape -- unless someone had him COLD on that -- wouldn't result in this. Abu Ghraib wouldn't be prosecuted like this even -- UNLESS he was turning against them.

IMO it can only be being disloyal or unsupportive of the administration.

[charlie]

56. Dunno

The commander of the Kitty Hawk battle group was pulled on the eve of heading out for the Gulf for the invasion. Busted for having an officer girlfriend.

[smoogatz]

24. "Matters of personal conduct"

It's a sex thing. Maybe he's gay. Or a sexual harasser. No general ever gets fired for incompetence.

[Taxloss]

27. That was my immediate thought.

But you never know. Maybe they found out he was a DU poster.

[RobertSeattle]

30. That's my thoughts too

He was secretely banging a Private or privately banging a secretary.

[MADem]

34. Maybe he is Jeff Gannon's special friend

http://www-tradoc.army.mil/Bio.htm

Note this bio--there is a formula for them. The last paragraph usually reads something like this: General Byrnes is married to the former Ophelia "Mipsy" Thigh of Chickenhawk, TX. They have three children, Clonehead, 22, a midshipman at the Naval Academy, Boopsie, 19, a student at Texas A and M, and Twitchie, age 12.

I see NO SPOUSAL info, and this is quite unusual, especially at that paygrade. Anyone at TRADOC posting here who has a handy dandy social roster? That will tell the tale!!!

[shanti]

36. they sure don't

what happens is that they get PROMOTED!

[SteppingRazor]

25. I'll take bets on homosexuality.

4-to-1 odds!

on the other hand, Having sex/sexual harassment of female soldiers/officers -- 3-to-1!

Anyone else wanna speculate?

[Gormy Cuss]

29. Oh, I'd guess sex or harassment is the "personal conduct" problem too.

Wouldn't want to speculate on the nature of it. There are all sorts of fraternization rules in the military.

[Eloriel]

57. No, no, no - sex and harrassment are fine as long as you're loyal

to this administration.

[papau]

26. In charge of the development of war-fighting guidelines. - torture from

the top rules sent to him - and he was about to release?

Just a guess - but sounds about right for the Bush administration.

[Changenow]

72. That's it

there likely was a live boy or dead girl diversion, but he was about to say something truthful.

Poor guy, he should have known who he was dealing with.

[Not_Giving_Up]

28. "It's policy....

not to release information about specific allegations in an investigation of an Army officer."


Really? A four star general without any comment? WHAT did this guy DO?

[RobertSeattle]

31. Don't worry - it will get out

The Pentagon is one huge gossip mill.

[displacedtexan]

33. Maybe he started blogging.

He wouldn't be the first, I'll bet.

Either that or BushCo sees a way to place a more "compatible" patsy in power.

[bushisanidiot]

32. Was he pictured on Jeff Gannon's "hot military stud" gay porn site?

wonder if president nosepicker is going to ask him for a "private consultation" before he's relieved.

[Divernan]

37. Historically, flag rank/4*s get the boot for criticizing the CIC/policies

And I'll give ya three examples (1st 2 from a WaPo article).

Please think about these before you are so quick to trash this guy's name and reputation. Because if he is getting sacked for disagreeing with Bush/Rumsfeld, you'll be playing right into the neocons' hands to start sexual rumors about him.
1. 1990. General Michael Dugan was fired as Chief of Staff of the Air Force for comments he made to reporters about the planning for the 1991 Gulf War

2. 1995. Navy Admiral Richard Macke was sacked as Commander of the Pacific for remarks he made about US Marines accused of raping a 12 year old Japanese girl.

3. In Nazi Germany, the only Germans who plotted to remove Hitler were a group of Army generals. Their plot failed and they were executed. My source for this is a retired European professor who lived through the Nazi occupation of Czechoslovakia. He pointed out that there were organized resistance groups of civilians in all the nazi occupied countries, except Germany . There, only these German generals opposed Hitler because he offended their traditional sense of mlitary honor.

Given this man's position, if anyone would be disgusted with Rumsfeld's policies and the cost in lives to undertrained, under equipped soldiers, it would be this man.

[charlie]

40. #2

The dumbbell remarked that the jarheads could've bought a prostitute for the price they paid to rent the rape van. The Japanese were livid. Macke lost his job because he was stupid.

[Divernan]

43. You're right. & Dugan lost his for talking to reporters and

upsetting numerous factions in the Middle East, including Israel, Egypt & Saudi Arabia.

I just did some more research on the very brief examples cited by the Washington Post.

Dugan was fired by Dick Chaney for leaking too many salient details of the planned US air attack on Iraq to reporters. He referred to American use of Israeli designed "Popeye" guided bombs in a B-52 attack against Baghdad. Lessons from Bush I: Don't talk to reporters and don't PO Saudi Arabia, et al.

Admiral Macke made remarks concerning a brutal rape of a 12 year old Japanese school girl on Okinawa, by three US servicement (2 Marines, 1 Navy). He said that for the price of the rental car(driven by the rapists) they could have "had a girl", i.e, whore. This remark, in conjunction with a long history of sexual assaults on Okinawan women by US servicemen, resulted in a demonstration by 85,000 Okinawan residents, and demands that the US remove its military presence from the island. President Clinton and Ambassador to Japan Mondale apologized, but this wasn't enough, and Macke had to be canned. I don't think he got the boot for being politically incorrect or insensitive about rape (which he was). He got the boot because his comments threatened US access to Okinawa for a military base.

So i think that whatever is getting the current 4 Star general fired, it's got to be pretty serious and a threat to Bush's policies/ practises in Iraq.

[MidwestTransplant]

39. I'm gonna say his bad personal conduct was questioning war planning

[Eloriel]

58. Eggsackly. Or some other form of disloyalty to this administration. n/t

[nolabels]

60. What war planning?

:rofl:

[sabra]

44. "allegations of personal misconduct of a sexual nature."

<<SNIP>>
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N09419576.htm

"He was relieved for matters of personal conduct," said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman.

An Army official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the disciplinary action followed an investigation by the Defense Department inspector general's office into "allegations of personal misconduct of a sexual nature."

The official offered no further details of the allegations against Byrnes, who is married.

As head of the Army Training and Doctrine Command, Byrnes was in charge of Army training programs, creating war-fighting guidelines and recruiting new soldiers. He oversaw 50,000 people in 33 schools and centers at 16 Army installations.

<</SNIP>>

[MADem]

97. Bet his WIFE ratted him out!!!

What the hell, she gets half his retirement and doesn't have to do that four star wife horseshit, which can be hugely draining.

You can live well on that retirement....

[guruoo]

45. U.S. Army Relieves Four-Star General Of Duties

U.S. Army Relieves Four-Star General Of Duties

POSTED: 11:53 am EDT August 9, 2005

WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon said it has stripped an Army four-star general of his command.
Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes

Military officials won't go into any more detail other than saying the move follows an investigation of "personal conduct."

Gen. Kevin Byrnes oversaw all Army training programs and the development of combat guidelines.

<snip>
AP, via:
http://www.wtov9.com/news/4828020/detail.html


Army Training and Doctrine Command:
http://www-tradoc.army.mil/index.html

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Okay, so how common is it to strip stars off a General?

sumpin's shaking.

[RobertSeattle]

47. Very rare

I bet he's done something naughty.

But they didn't strip him of his stars - only his position. He'll retire with a 100K+ a year retirement (w/Med) and then get picked up by a beltway bandit consulting company for 250K a year - he's set.

[bettys boy]

49. It has happened

About 7 years ago a retired general - the former commandant of an Army medical center - was recalled to active duty in order to stand before a court martial on grounds of having committed serial sexual harrassment, having used his position to coerce the wives of subordinates.

Upon conviction he was reduced in rank, and sent back into retirement at the lower rank. Retirement pay was reduced accordingly. To those of us who spent most of our careers enlisted this sort of thing is the height of hypocrisy - enlisteds and NCOs would be sent to Leavenworth for the same offense.

If it's sexual harrassment he'll be a pariah in the corporate world, no one will touch him with a ten foot pole. He'd bring too many liability and PR problems.

Recall, also, that Janice Karpinski was busted to Colonel after Abu Ghraib. Her enlisted subordinates are breaking rocks in Leavenworth.

[Changenow]

73. Seven years ago there were laws,

now there are only political loyalties.

[MADem]

98. You retire at the rank you last served HONORABLY at

Worst case, he retires as a three star (unless they have video of him doing naughty things back then, or conclusive proof). If he has been getting paid for more than a year as a four, odds are he will keep his four star pension, get fined half month's pay for three months, get a letter of reprimand from the SECDEF, and go home. They will stick him on administrative leave, he will cash in his unused leave, and they will probably ensure his ass is out the door by OCT, the start of the new FY.

The good news for three stars who want to be four stars is that ONE MORE SLOT JUST OPENED UP!

[etherealtruth]

48. Personal conduct ????

wonder what this guy did? :popcorn:

[sabra]

50. "allegations of personal misconduct of a sexual nature."

<<SNIP>>
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N09419576.htm

"He was relieved for matters of personal conduct," said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman.

An Army official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the disciplinary action followed an investigation by the Defense Department inspector general's office into "allegations of personal misconduct of a sexual nature."

The official offered no further details of the allegations against Byrnes, who is married.

As head of the Army Training and Doctrine Command, Byrnes was in charge of Army training programs, creating war-fighting guidelines and recruiting new soldiers. He oversaw 50,000 people in 33 schools and centers at 16 Army installations.

<</SNIP>>

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. I wonder if this is sexual or just said somethign aganist

the Dictator?

[Judi Lynn]

52. Here's his bio.:

GENERAL KEVIN P. BYRNES
COMMANDING GENERAL
UNITED STATES ARMY TRAINING AND DOCTRINE COMMAND



http://www-tradoc.army.mil/Bio.htm

[anotherdrew]

53. FYI good site = militarycorruption.com

http://www.militarycorruption.com/

good place to look in on from time to time.

[bettys boy]

59. Vile, right wing hacks

They attacked Clark's appearance on the cover of a gay and lesbian magazine, and link to Vets Against Kerry and WorldNetDaily.

[anotherdrew]

61. hadn't noticed. that sucks

[Scout1071]

62. Come on DU. You know the only reason someone is fired from

this administration is sex related. Lies, lies, and more lies = promotions. Sex = Fired. Pretty simple.

Unspecified personal conduct may even mean (dare I say) homosexual conduct. Purely speculation, but wouldn't surprise me.

[NNN0LHI]

63. In fact the only "personal conduct'' that could get a 4-star general...

...shitcanned is a seldom broke rule called "refusal to drink the kool-aid".

Don

[Joanne98]

70. He was in charge of TRAINING. They're putting a FUNDIE in there!

To move all the "Bible Brats" up to leadership positions. It's a coup!

[PassingFair]

76. This is not a joke or "tin foil" talk...

The Air force has been caught out proselytizing non X-tians and making life difficult for them in general. Preaching was going on at all levels.

I don't think it's funny or appropriate when DUers suggest that freepers and/or fundies sign up to fight "their" war in Iraq.

An army of X-tian soldiers is just what we need :sarcasm: .

They will return to flesh out and control our local police forces.

[MADem]

99. They are sending a Navy chaplain in to clean up the USAF Academy

A guy named Arnie Resnicoff, a very conservative Jew. Uncorruptible, too--he has massive stones when it comes to injustice, and no one will dare try to run roughshod over him, because they will not win. He's got more connections than Ma Bell.

A bit straight laced, but a good guy.

[spuddonna]

75. "I did not have sexual relations with that tank!" n/t

[jarab]

77. kick.

...O...

[norml]

78. General accused of sexual misconduct fired

Posted on Wed, Aug. 10, 2005


Byrnes

General accused of sexual misconduct fired

The Associated Press


WASHINGTON — In an extraordinary move, the Army has sacked a four-star general who was the subject of a Defense Department investigation into alleged sexual misconduct, officials said Tuesday.

Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes, commander of Army Training and Doctrine Command, was approaching retirement when Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, decided to relieve him of duty.

The Army announced no specific allegation against Byrnes, but a senior official said it involved unspecified sexual misconduct.

Disciplinary action against officers is not rare, but it is extremely unusual in the case of a four-star general. Records from the General Officer Management Office show no cases in recent history in which a four-star general has been relieved of duty for disciplinary reasons, said Lt. Col. Pamela Hart, an Army spokeswoman.


snip


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/12343482.htm

[Changenow]

79. It's gotta be a truth thing,

he told it.

[Kingofalldems]

80. A question

Does this mean he loses his pension?

[MADem]

100. NO, see above

Worst case, he retires as a three star. Since he has served sufficient time as a four, he has enough time in to keep the four star retirement. If he were a new four star, he would retire with three stars, but he will keep the dough.

[Demeter]

81. Why Can They Whack A General For An Extramarital Affair

and nobody goes down for torture, murder, and violations of international law and treaty?

[eyeontheprize]

84. It wasn't an affair,

it must have something to do with the attack on Iran or the leaked documents describing the nuke plan.

[CabalPowered]

82. Fort Monroe is holding an exercise this month..

http://www.northcom.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=news.showstory&storyid=C9BFBBAC-F3CA-BD2E-008C7B34AFE33114

[spotbird]

85. How would that be connected to this man losing his job? nt

[renaldo]

86. Synthetic terror

There has been speculation that since 911 and the London bombings had terror drills as a cover, this could be the same. BushCo would have their excuse to nuke Iran.

[CabalPowered]

87. No explicit connection ..

Fort Monroe is the headquarters of TRADOC. Just thought it was coincidental that Byrne is released nearly the same time SR 05 is to start.

[earth mom]

88. Anyone have a specific date on that? TIA. nt

[CabalPowered]

116. I'm not sure if this is SR 05 but a drill is planned for 8/17

http://tradoc.monroe.army.mil/casemate/stack/080505exercise.htm

[earth mom]

89. self delete

[Booster]

91. This is very bad PR on the Army's part as far as recruiting goes,

and it seems to me that it's going to be a very lean Army if everyone in the Army is "relieved" because of "personal conduct". I'm not casting stones here, but aren't there half-American children and very old children all over the world right now? This was just a really stupid move on the part of some right-wing nut high up in the Army.

[MADem]

101. No, this is NOT new, in fact, it goes back to ABERDEEN

That was when all the USA male trainers were screwing the young female trainees fresh out of boot camp. Sexual conduct guidelines went through a HUGE retooling back then, and there has subsequently been ZERO tolerance WRT screwing around.

That is not to say it does not still happen, but discretion is the better part of valor.

ABERDEEN changed sexual harassment/sexual conduct policy for all the services. Other services have had their scandals as well, but that one was the tipping point--it happened, hell, eight or more years ago. Everyone gets the training (with annual refreshers), everyone knows the drill. This is not new or onerous policy, most of the servicemembers on active duty right now view it as par for the course, old hat, SOP--no surprises. You screw around with the knowledge that if your relationship is somehow prejudicial to good order and discipline, AND you get caught, there are career consequences, and those consequences can be pretty severe.

[wishlist]

102. Wayne Madsen blog says firing involves his conflicts with neocons:

Per Wayne Madsen:

"What has not been reported is that recently, one of Byrnes' subordinate commands, Fort Rucker in Alabama, had been told to stand by for an influx of 50,000 military trainees -- a level the base has not seen since the Vietnam War. Byrnes' relief of command came on the heels of the Pentagon announcing that it might permit Spanish-language entrance examinations. Byrnes, who was in charge of Army training, would not only face recruits with lower education levels, criminal records, but a lack of proficiency in English. Pentagon insiders report that it was Byrnes' policy disagreements with the Pentagon neo-cons over the new recruitment policies and the potential for calling up Army retirees and reinstating military conscription without adequate TRADOC funding that resulted in his firing. The personal misconduct charges were concocted by the Pentagon to cover up the fact that there are serious disagreements with Bush and Rumsfeld among the flag officer ranks in the military.

Byrnes was also associated with a group of officers who spent time at the U.S. Army War College at Carlisle Barracks in Pennsylvania. The Army War College has been a center of opposition to the war in Iraq and it is believed that Byrnes was recognized by the neo-cons as one of the unofficial leaders of a group of Army flag rank opponents of Bush's war in Iraq and potential military action against Iran.

August 10, 2005 --

There is much more if you scroll down to this article:

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

[VegasWolf]

103. Boy, I smell a draft! Glad I'm not 18-40 anymore!!! nt

[wishlist]

104. Defense Dept must believe recruiting non-citizens is better than a draft

As long as they can truck in enough volunteers from Mexico and other countries, draft could be postponed. I am sure Bush & Co considers this strategy more politically acceptable for several reasons, especially since the Iraq war is increasingly unpopular.

[lovuian]

108. Bottomline he didn't play along with NeoCons

the Army has turned into the mercenaries of 2000

not the educated and American citizenship!!!

[Al-CIAda]

106. Byrnes was about to lead a coup-

Four Star Army General Fired For Alleged Sexual Misconduct; Some Say He May Have Been Ousted For Attempting To Thwart The Bush Administration Plans To Strike Iran
General Kevin P. Byrnes was relieved of his duties Tuesday, only the third four star officer to be fired in more than 15 years. Observers speculated there are much deeper reasons behind the firing of the high-ranking officer said to be against the administration's escalating war policies.
August 10, 2005

By Greg Szymanski

Sabers are rattling deep within the highest-levels of the U.S. military as for the first time in more than a decade a four star officer was relieved of his duties, Army officials announced Tuesday.

Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes was relieved for personal conduct reasons as the Pentagon Inspector General’s Office has been investigating possible sexual misconduct by Byres for several months.

“The investigation is complete but it is yet to be determined if the general will be only demoted or charged criminally,” said a Pentagon spokesman about relieving Byrnes of his duties as commander of the prestigious Army Training and Doctrine Command (TRADOC).

To understand the magnitude of the firing and its unusual nature, Byrnes, 55, was only months away from full retirement and though high-ranking officers are commonly relieved of their duties rarely – if ever – is such a drastic measure taken against a four star general.

Although the military and Pentagon officials, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, are remaining silent about the details, speculation among some military observers is that the firing of Gen. Byrnes goes much deeper than only personal sexual misconduct.

Sources close to the military who remain anonymous said Byrnes was part of U.S. military faction discontented with the Bush administration war policies in Iraq and the potential for a nuclear disaster in Iran.

In an effort to stop the Bush administration in its tracks, sources say Byrnes was about to lead a coup against the hawks in the military and executive branch determined to lead America into a global conflict, leading to devastating ramifications for the country, as well as financial and social chaos.

Con't-
http://www.arcticbeacon.com./

[Jose Diablo]

112. From Russian-Chinese news

United States Military Forces Begin Coup, Top US General Arrested
author: Sorcha Faal's article reposted


"The Army, in a rare disciplinary act against a four-star officer, said Tuesday it relieved Gen. Kevin P. Byrnes of his command after a Pentagon investigation into unspecified "personal conduct." Byrnes, a native of New York City, was relieved as commander of U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command on Monday by Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker, according to a brief statement issued by Army headquarters at the Pentagon."

Russian Military Analysts are further reporting that US Military Forces still loyal to General Byrnes and the other Coup Leaders are continuing their preparations and as evidenced by a number of large scale Military movements within the Continental United States Regions. These reports further state that the Coup Leaders efforts are being hampered by the ordering last week of 7 Armor Brigades loyal to the Coup Leaders to depart immediately to the Iraqi War Zone.

Speculation behind the reasons leading to these Coup Leader efforts centers upon the belief within the American Military Establishment that war with Iran is imminent and all that remains is the 'triggering event' forecast by many World Intelligence Organizations to occur this month in the United States. Like the rest of the world knows, should the American Coup Leaders fail in their efforts Total Global War will be the result of any American attack upon Iran, and as exampled by yesterdays article from the Uruknet News Service in their article titled "Why Iran will lead to World War 3" and which says;

<snip>

It makes no difference. If Iran is attacked they will retaliate; that much is certain. It is always the mistake of extremists to misjudge the behavior of reasonable men; just as it is always the mistake of reasonable men to mistake the behavior of extremists. We should not expect the Bush administration to make a rational choice; that would be a dramatic departure from every preceding decision of consequence. The President of the United States always has the option of unleashing Armageddon if he so chooses. Normally, however, sanity prevails. When the bombs hit the bunkers in Iran; World War 3 will be underway."


I'd say the Russians are spooked. Not sure of the reliability of the news and its source, but others around the world are very concerned about a 'possible' US-Iran nuke engagement. If Bu$h nukes Iran, the Russians and Chinese WILL respond, they have no choice.

Is Byrnes removal really about 'sexual misconduct' or is a military coup underway?
:shrug:

[HockeyMom]

107. He's been accused of Adultery

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050810201509990013

[genieroze]

109. Oh, give me a break. That's a dumb reason, but it's okay to sexually

assault prisoners like they did in Abu Ghraib. Just as long as it's not consensual I guess.

[suegeo]

111. Jesus, Don Rumsfeld, Bedroom Cop.

I think having the government dictate how consenting adults can or cannot sexually relate with each other is a very bad idea. In fact, it's an abusive of power, against our rights and humanity.

Especially since, these DoD guys are the same bastards (Steven Cambone, you big jerk) who used their perceptions of Arab sexuality against some poor schmuck goat farmers they swept up into their torture chambers.

These US military "men" are sick bastards and they are killing the country and the world.

[emad]

115. UPDATE:Affair gets general sacked and divorced on same day

Affair gets general sacked and divorced on same day
From Tom Baldwin
Distinguished military career is ruined after senior officers take moral high ground


The US Army is keen to instil a sense of morality in its recruits after two years of bad publicity, notably over the treatment of Iraqi prisoners in the Middle East. The sacking of General Kevin Byrnes is thought to be designed to set an example.

A FOUR-STAR US Army general accused of sexual misconduct has been dismissed in an apparent attempt to reaffirm the American military’s high moral standards.

The decision to relieve General Kevin P. Byrnes of his duties in charge of the Army’s recruitment and training for such a reason is thought to be without recent precedent for such a senior officer.

General Byrnes, 55, had previously had an unblemished military record. It included service in Vietnam and commanding international forces in Bosnia. He had been due to retire in November after a 36-year army career.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1730311,00.html

[MADem]

117. WAPO had the same details, and even more

Boy, oh boy! This is getting INTERESTING.

Quite frankly, if someone is legally separated, as this guy was, I have never heard of anyone being brought up for adultery in that sort of situation. I've never ever heard of anyone being chastised in those circumstances. Unless he was conducting himself in a cavalier manner (dissing his soon-to-be ex; acting like an ass at the O Club, e.g.), it just does not make sense to me. Also, the paramour in question was not affiliated with the military or USG in any way, shape or form, so there is no apparent issue of a senior-subordinate relationship.

WAPO coverage http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/09/AR2005080900515.html

It sounds to me like they wanted to move him early, perhaps because he was fighting a serious course change, and in order to get Wallace in the job to start implementing a revised direction. Perhaps, as some speculated above, he HAD been griping about policy, procedure, and operational direction of TRADOC and the US Army as a whole. Well, if they thought this move would shut him up, I rather doubt it--it usually has the opposite effect, even if you owe your rank to the "head cheerleader" at the WH. Generals, especially four stars at his place in the pecking order, are not devoid of their own hubris.

Also, the fact that his divorce became final on the day that they ripped him out of there looks really fishy. They had to know what was going on, I rather doubt he brought his separated wife to the innumerable soirees that are interminably part and parcel of life at that level. If he was bringing a date to those things (and I bet he was), then THEY KNEW.

This really IS starting to look like a "relief for cause of CONVENIENCE." Creepy!!!!

Who knows, the day after he receives his first retirement check, he could well meet with a publisher, and start making the talking head rounds on TV. You've gotta figure he still has friends on active duty and in the SES crowd (you never get that far without being VERY well connected), so if he does start singing, he won't be without updates.

I'd be surprised if this isn't just the opening chapter; not a concluding one (which is likely what Rummy, et. al. are hoping). Of course, if I were him I'd be careful crossing streets, especially if he plans on singing like a canary.

[katty]

118. dumping a 4-Star General is no small matter, Byrnes has

never been linked to the L. Franklin scandal (so far). I think, like others that have fallen before, he must have major disagreements w/a (possible)plan of attack on Iran--bush/cheney HAVE to get their hard on for Iran ASAP because GOP is ramping up for the '06 midterms--
can't have icon Cindy Sheehan, a war that is a full on chaotic mess/bloodbath, low #'s for the boypuppet, Gas $$ going up, up,up everyday and the Plame scandal get so way out of control for too much longer-or their plans will be delayed or completely screwed, re: Iran.
What they fail to see is that all this stuff is already way out of their control-it's over....