Myers: Possibility of third Iraq tours for active-duty troops 'always out

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=30855

The U.S. military is “good for several years” if the current troop level in Iraq must be sustained, but third tours for active-duty servicemembers might be needed, Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Tuesday.

And the Defense Department is adhering to the prohibition on placing reservists on active status for longer than 24 months, Myers told Pentagon reporters during a news conference that included Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

However, “there’s the possibility of people going back for a third term, sure,” Myers said. “That’s always out there. We are at war.”

Rumsfeld, meanwhile, scoffed at reports that many are already on their third tour.

“There’s always a risk when people grab into the middle of something, take the worst of what might be, and then wave it around as though it’s reality,” Rumsfeld said.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. They want to kill every one that they can.

Cycle those poor bastards through until there aren't any left.

[saigon68]

31. Why would anyone with a brain

Not get out ASAP ?

Or not JOIN in the first place?

[obxhead]

38. You can't get out - stop loss in force.

Thats why re-enlist rates are so high. If your going to be forced to stay in you might as well take the bonus check.

[saigon68]

49. I don't believe that for one minute.

Coerced to re-enlist.

Never happen GI

[TomClash]

2. What bull****

My nephew is going for his third tour next month.

[yorkiemommie1]

3. For combat-weary Marines, each stint adds to the strain

... this looks like three tours to me; maybe i'm missing something.

" By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
RAMADI, Iraq — The day the Marines crossed into Iraq, Cpl. James Welter Jr. killed his first man. During his second combat tour, he earned a commendation for leadership skills and coolness under fire, but he brought a nightmare home. Now, with six weeks left in his third fighting tour, his goal is simple....

..." During their first tour, Welter and his unit were greeted as liberators. During the second, they fought a growing rebellion. Now, on the third, many say they are angry to be back, shaken by the loss of more friends and feeling old beyond their years.

"I'm 22 years old. It really feels like I'm 30," Welter says. "I've seen more and done more things at 22 than most people have in 40 years."

more here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-07-28-infantry-cover_x.htm

edited to add: I bet they're using some kind of BUSHspeak to define 'tours'.

[mom cat]

24. And battle fatigue leads to more danger to the troops...they become

more numbed out, less focused and more likely to get careless.

[yorkiemommie1]

36. exactly.

i sent the USA TODAY article to estripes and we'll see if I get any response.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

4. "We are at war." Since when?

Asswipe said combat operations were over, and I don't remember Congress declaring war.

[txindy]

8. Love your banner!

I've been saying we need something like that to hold up in front of the SCLM every day. If they can count the days Judith Miller is in jail, we can certainly count the days the Coward-in-Crawford hides from a mother.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

10. Thanks... that is what I thought too... hope to keep it up

as the days progress.

[Joebert]

5. My brother is due for his second tour this fall.

Now, he says his unit has no orders yet.

But his CO's CO is fishing around for a mission, so they can go.


I repeat, they're not supposed to go, but the boss wants them to.

Somebody medal fishing?

[Stand and Fight]

7. That's not how it works.

A commander, especially an O-3, cannot just request a mission or "fish around" to be deployed again. I spent a few years in the Army. I know what I'm talking about. Sorry to come off as snide, but I really hate false innuendo or half-truths.

[Joebert]

9. I only know what he told me.

I may have the level wrong, but there's a lot of talk on the base about some of the places this guy's been showing up, and the things he's been saying.

I'm sure you're right, but to be fair, I work with a lot of ex-Army guys who keep telling me that's not how it works. And then they meet my brother, he tells them what is going on at the base now, and what happened in Iraq. They're shocked.

[Stand and Fight]

46. I apologize to you.

I misinterpretted your message and took it to mean an 0-3 rather than what you intended -- the Commanding Officer of your brother's Commanding Officer. You are entirely correct in the information you shared, as a LTC or COL can go on a hunt for missions. I agree with you that they could be doing it for their own selfish reasons. Hell, I've seen that same sort of thing happen time-and-time again when I was in the Army. Again, I apologize for questioning you.

[No Passaran]

13. I think you misunderstood him

He said CO's CO which is usually O-5 or O-6 and yes they can write and request and push for a deployment. Full Birds have that kind of pull.

[Stand and Fight]

47. Thank you for clearing that up.

I've just apologized to the poster. I would also like to thank you for being considerate and thoughtful enough to realize that there was a misunderstanding. I haven't slept well lately so I was a little off my game, but luckily there's plenty of alert people on DU!

:hug:

[jukes]

19. bullshit

go ahead and pretend there's no "good ol' boy" network. just who the fuck do you think you're kidding?


any1 else note the reek of wet earth & moldy fur?

[Stand and Fight]

45. Bullshit on you.

I resent your insinuation that I'm a troll. I simply misinterpretted the poster's message. As someone -- apparently more thoughtful than you -- pointed out to me up-thread. The poster is absolutely right -- a LTC or COL would have the kind of pull necessary to hunt for missions to go on. If you are familiar with my post at all -- and apparently you are not -- I am anything but a troll.

So stick that in your pipe in smoke it you self-righteous prick.

[tabasco]

27. I spent a few years in the Army too.

First of all you misinterpreted the rank. He's talking about a battalion commander. I'm unclear if it is reserve or active, but for you to categorically deny that commanders can look around for a mission is incorrect. IMO, it is less common in active units but in a reserve unit this is very common.

Even a company commader could do this. Very often, companies are detached and sent on missions with other units. Some CO's make it clear to the Bn Cdr that they want their company to go.

So your statement is wrong and your snideness inappropriate.

[Stand and Fight]

48. Your snideness is no better.

I was wrong. I admit that, but I'm not going to take shit from you or anyone else because of it. I've apologized to the appropriate parties, but I will not apologize to knee-jerk reactions. It was nearly 1 AM for me. I was tired. I misread the response. I responded based upon a misinterpretation on my part. That misinterpretation has been corrected by cooler heads than yours. I accept I am wrong, but I am not going to be talked down to by you or anyone else. I disagree with you on the idea of how much pull a company commander has, but I wholeheartedly concede the point that an LTC or COL has the rank necessary to hunt for missions. You snideness is misplaced and wholly unwelcome.

Good day.

[lovuian]

6. I know a kid on his second tour and will probably be headed

for third tour

He's a mechanic!!!

[proReality]

25. I know a doctor, who did one 3 months of duty as a doctor, then...

after his work in a hospital unit was sent for some intensive arms training. He was sent back to Iraq--as one of the regular troops! Talk within his unit is that they'll be there for a 3rd tour.

Instead of saving lives, he's now expected to take them. So here we have another prime example of the BushCo World of the Upside Down and Backward.

[tabasco]

28. This sounds very unlikely.

Special skills such as a doctor are in very, very high demand in the military. I find it extremely unlikely that a doctor would be used for anything other than as a doctor.

Is he some kind of specialist that the military would not need? I can't think what type that would be.

But I still have time to learn new things. I always think I can't be shocked anymore and - BOOM - the Bush cabal does it again.

[burrowowl]

11. May Rummy

“There’s always a risk when people grab into the middle of something, take the worst of what might be, and then wave it around as though it’s reality,” Rumsfeld said."
Be sent to Irak with the 'army we have' and be put on patrol.

[rodeodance]

12. the 'we are at war' mantra is getting old

[salin]

15. "Rumsfeld scoffedl..."

(per the original post)

er... gag on this Rummy: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05198/538659.stm

[salin]

16. "Rumsfeld scoffedl..."

(per the original post)

er... gag on this Rummy: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05198/538659.stm

[Sgent]

14. I would think some marines are

on their 3rd tour.

Their usual cycle is 6mos train/6mos on/6mos other. I imagine they eliminated the "other" portion and are now doing 1yr cycles.

This is different than the army which does 1yr tours I believe.

[Solly Mack]

17. Oh BS. They're switching between Afghanistan and Iraq - please read

One group that has been in Iraq for 2 tours and about to go on their 3rd in Iraq, got switched with another group going on their 3rd tour in Afghanistan..see how that works? That's what they're doing in a lot of cases.

Also, a tour=12 months....anythng less than that served is not considered a full tour.

So if you go to Iraq 3 times but always serve less than a year, you've never served a full tour. On paper, it doesn't count as a tour served.

And I know of soldiers in Iraq for the 3rd time...but not on their 3rd tour.

Not a shock I know but Rummy isn't being entirely honest about this

[leftchick]

21. Thank you for clearing that up

If rummy is opening his mouth I know there are lies spewing forth.

[Solly Mack]

34. They're playing the word game and it's highly dishonest

There are rules governing deployments. Length of time and how often a soldier can be deployed in a specific time frame - rules that war does not alter...as the rules were designed with war in mind.

They skirt these rules when they send soldiers to Iraq or Afghanistan for less than a year. As long as they pull a group out before the 365th day, the tour does not count for the soldier and they can be deployed again and again because they never reach the "safe" zone....when days mandated in country are maxed out....before they get a real break from another long deployment

It's supposed to be- if you spend 365 days with boots on the ground, they can't redeploy you for 6 months....if you spend less than that, they can redeploy you in 3 months. However, you're only allowed so many 12 month hardship (of which war is one) tours in a specific time frame(the ratio is 365 cumulative days per 720 days-meaning that in ANY given 720 consecutive day cycle, you can only be deployed for 365 days total - though anything less than 12 months is still not a tour)

This is designed to keep the soldier from experiencing burn-out and going crazy(and it even applies in a time of war - though they have suspended it)... we know that the military isn't sticking to their own rules and that soldiers are suffering because of it.....You can, however, volunteer to serve as many tours as you want...though even those are supposed to be weighed against the possible hardship to the soldier

Basically, Bush Inc is destroying the military they have to keep from admitting they were wrong. They are decimating the military that we just might really need someday.....in the event of an actual threat, we're pretty screwed right now....and for years to come.

I don't support a draft for this BS war on terror...as such a "war" cannot be won with military might. No sense adding to the problem with a draft.

It took 20 years to rebuild the military after bad military policy in Vietnam wrecked it....it'll take longer to rebuild it after Bush is done with it.

[DrDan]

18. what LIARS!

"Rumsfeld, meanwhile, scoffed at reports that many are already on their third tour."

My wife's nephew has already received orders for his third tour. He flies helicopters and his parents are already wrecks - now his third tour!

[Rose Siding]

20. He responded to a question about the request for more marines

snip>
“The idea … that because somebody wishes they had more at a certain moment suggests the total number is wrong is a non sequitur, obviously a non sequitur,” Rumsfeld said.

“There’s 137,500 U.S. forces and a good slug of coalition forces, and how they are parceled out and allocated within the country of Iraq is for Gen. Casey and Gen. J.R. Vines to determine,” Rumsfeld said.

Myers, meanwhile, said that “more troops are needed, and they are being provided by the Iraqis. There’s 178,000-plus of them.”

Neither Myers nor Rumsfeld replied directly to a question about how many Iraqi security forces are actually able to operate independent of coalition forces, a query the defense secretary dismissed as “not a useful construct.”
==============

Hear that? It's "not useful" to discuss the readiness of Iraqi forces...even though that's SUPPOSED to be the main obstacle to our departure :eyes:

[insane_cratic_gal]

22. A possibility? It's already been happening

You remember the story about the 20 year old who did 3 tours in Iraq, all of which happen to land right around his birthday. He died at 23, just after his 23rd birthday and 3rd tour of duty.

I wouldn't be surprised if 4th and 5th tours start sprouting up with this current administration.

[LincolnMcGrath]

23. 3rd???My brother is going back for #SIX you F*CKHEAD!!!!!!!

I wish someone would let me have some personal time with Rumsferatu!

[maxrandb]

26. I Can't Believe He "EFFING" Said That!!!!!!

“There’s always a risk when people grab into the middle of something, take the worst of what might be, and then wave it around as though it’s reality,” Rumsfeld said.

I'm sorry, but there in NO WAY the words "reality" and "Rumsfeld" should appear within a mile of each other in print.

This from people with a pathological aversion to reality

He's either
a. "bat-shit" crazy
b. knows that nobody will hold him accountable
c. counts on the American people having the attention span of a flea
d. is so arrogant he feels he can get away with outright bullshit
or
e. is fucking senile.

I'm going for "all of the above".

[w8liftinglady]

30. They have gone insane with their power

I watched the whole Pentagon press conference.These people are lying.They have so distorted the facts.I can tell you that my own kid has been to combat zones for almost his whole 2.5 years so far(Afghanistan and Iraq).He is looking at staying through March 2006.His active duty ends at that time,but then the inactive reserves comes into effect.He's already told me don't count on him being released in March.I hate this illegal,immoral attack on our country.In my opinion,these war criminals are the insurgents.

[tuvor]

29. rummy: "There's always a risk..." Risk of WHAT?

That you might get some bad PR in the bush-brand war of choice?

[Efilroft Sul]

32. Third deployment here for a Pittsburgh-area mother

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/pages/pdf/ptr080505.pdf

When do the College Republicans and 101st Fighting
Keyboardists ship out?

[Supersedeas]

33. Can anyone translate the above Rummi quote? Always a risk???

[wryter2000]

35. If I were a believer

I'd reassure myself that Rumsfeld and the whole crew would spend the same amount of time in hell that the soldier with the longest deployment has to spend away from home.

Remind me again why I'm not supposed to be a "Bush-hater." :mad:

[Barrett808]

37. So does Rummy mean that "not *many*, only some" are on their third tour?

Because we have several credible reports about Marines being deployed on their third tours. Right?

[VegasWolf]

39. Hope third time is not the charm for these kids. nt

[lebkuchen]

40. Myers: Possibility of third Iraq tours for active-duty troops

Myers: Possibility of third Iraq tours for active-duty troops 'always out there'

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=30855

The U.S. military is “good for several years” if the current troop level in Iraq must be sustained, but third tours for active-duty servicemembers might be needed, Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Tuesday.

<cut>

Rumsfeld, meanwhile, scoffed at reports that many are already on their third tour.

<cut>

In response to a USA Today story Monday about a Marine Corps colonel in Iraq who said he repeatedly asked for 1,000 more Marines, Rumsfeld said such a request was not an indication that there are too few U.S. troops in Iraq.

**************

Rummy is, by far, the worst Sec. of Defense the US has ever had.

[unhappycamper]

41. "Rummy is, by far, the worst Sec. of Defense the US has ever had."

He's a pretty shitty secretary of war, also.

http://i3.photobucket.com.nyud.net:8090/albums/y69/KenInBoston/savedfromweb/mutherland.jpg

[uppityperson]

42. "Work smarter, not harder" rummy

[Vincardog]

43. Isn't there a law about the Sec. of Defense having to inhabit the

same reality as the the rest of us? The Ohio National Guard that lost all those troops asked for 1000 more Marines a year ago. How is that 'not an indication that there are too few U.S. troops in Iraq.'?

[achtung_circus]

44. WTF?

Neither Myers nor Rumsfeld replied directly to a question about how many Iraqi security forces are actually able to operate independent of coalition forces, a query the defense secretary dismissed as “not a useful construct.”

Construct? Maybe a useful thing to know, though.