Richardson declares border emergency to free up funds

[Robert Oak]

Recent developments have convinced me this action is necessary _ including violence directed at law enforcement, damage to property and livestock, increased evidence of drug smuggling and an increase in the number of undocumented immigrants," he said.

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/31221.html

Just in case someone is ready with the racist spam post...good luck.

Richardson is of Hispanic descent and a liberal Democrat.

[Leilani]

1. He was just on CNN

& said the people of his state asked him to do something...the situation is out of control.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

2. Bill Richardson is a governor of a border state

If HE wishes to use his power as a governor to protect his state's border, then I am in support of that. There are issues with crime etc at the border.

What I AM against and what IS racist is blaming Mexicans for all of our economic woes.

I am also against vigilantes detaining ANYONE at the border.

Furthermore, after pointing out that the Minutemen were racists, I took an AWFUL lot of shit from xenophobic DU'ers. However, the pictures this week of the Minutemen with confederate and nazi flags and the fact that their leader in Texas resigned over the fact that the membership was racist proved me right.

[Robert Oak]

6. "Racist" tancredo

is blaming corporations...

so come on, find something wrong with that now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. Why are you supporting Tom Tancredo on a democratic board?

and if I recall correctly you vehemently denied the Minutemen were racists.

[Robert Oak]

13. because this rhetoric has got to go this blanket "racist" BS

Also, I am not someone who backs up anybody absolutely. I look at votes
and ideas and actions.

While everybody is chanting this white supremacist racist mantra red herring BS whenever this topic is brought up, I'm pointing out that
"let's bomb Mecca" Tancredo, one of his proposals is very good...and that is to punish the employers.

Not everything is bad and there is opportunity to compromise, work with these guys and get something rational, based on labor economics and also has justice for Americans as well as even illegals.

It's possible. But, it will never happen as long as a cloud of insanity is enabled over this topic and that insanity is labeling everyone who takes this issue on a racist white supremacist. It's a real issue, there are racists who rant about it and it's liberals job to look at this from an economic and fair view point and present a counter proposal that is not by and for multinational corporations and their goal to erode workers rights and have guaranteed cheap exploitable labor in whatever country they want it in.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Sorry but it IS racist to scapegoat people..and using a racist such

as Tancredo to support your argument is like using Hitler as a model for healthcare for children.

Mexicans did not underfund unions. Right to work laws voted for by primarily WHITE MALES did that.

[Robert Oak]

19. that's absurd

Just because a good idea was adopted by Tancredo does not make it a bad idea.

Do you realize that balancing the budget came from conservative Republicans? It was a very good idea. Clinton took it and make it his own.

May I give you an analogy...trying to claim that anyone who wants
reform in this area is a racist is the same as those freepers claiming stem cells are babies.

It's the same technique, same emotionalism and trying to hide the facts in order to win a point that is not winnable when based in reality.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. Find me a single post by me that claims everyone who wants immigration

reform is a racist.

There is MUCH to be desired with our immigration policy, but scapegoating against ONE nation when that nation HARDLY stresses our resources to the degree that some LEGAL immigrants do is racist.

Furthermore, Tancredo IS a racist.

Finally, I don't completely support balanced budgets. Deficit spending to spark the economy CAN be effective....it's largely how FDR led us out of the depression.

[Robert Oak]

27. Tancredo is kind of an idiot, but not a bonified racist

Sorry, budget deficits are not a good thing when the economy is operating at full capacity and this was 1996.

Keynesian economics, which uses deficits but the money MUST go directly to workers (not trickle down economics) is applicable when the economy is in recession or depression.

The use of "supply side" economics which supposedly injects capital into the economy during a recession or depression has been Reagan, Bush, Hoover and the Chimp. It's bogus. The results are the rich get more money and the injection of capital is not used by the poor and hence does nothing to reduce a recession.

I don't know who is blasting "one nation" they are blasting the southern border because a series of nations are crossing illegally.

Finally I have spent enormous time digging at Tancredo...
he's really not a Nazi or a racist...he is kind of oh...
says very stupid things...but in terms of what I consider a KKK card carrying Nazi he's not. Anyway, I have examined almost every speech he has given and found a "tinge" in some rhetoric and of course the now infamous stupid statement of bombing Mecca, which is by far the worst.

So, while you're busy digging up this theoretical KKK background..
I'll continue to read about labor economics, global economics, unionization, social mobility and creation of a middle class..

after you get all of those Nazis out of there, feel proud...your economy for the working middle class is now in serfdom.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robert Oak]

36. Que? You are now insulting me

I am not amused..if you wish to discuss things with facts, fine, but clearly you are not just out to insult me.

You have no idea of my race, sex or age. and the assumptions here are amazing.

Es una lástima.

[Kralizec]

3. I am from New Mexico and Richardson is a sell-out to the DLC

and I no longer trust his initiatives on their face. Just my two cents...

[wli]

4. probably trying to keep merkins from fleeing

[Robert Oak]

5. you people are not rational

If anything the DLC wants open borders because this is what multinational corporations want...cheap labor they can exploit...
and present other services that there customers cannot complain about because they are illegal.

[hollowdweller]

11. I agree. As long as we have so many illegals unions will be stifled.

[Robert Oak]

12. we agree then

There are people on here who are basically not dealing with the facts.
Sorry I'm kind of truly sick of that and kind of wrote a blanket assumption.

I think odds are (and I'd need to see a study to confirm) but it seems
to me amnesty is better than guest worker VISAs for those are held by multinational corporations...so if a worker does anything the corporation doesn't like (say organize?) bam they are "fired" and deported.

I don't like anmesty either but don't like this "deport everybody" thing either.

I'm hoping a set of criteria is developed that's fair (say no criminal history, length of time in US, job, contributing and all of that good citizen rot) and then each case is examined per a set of uniform criteria.

But, guest worker VISAS...smells awful bad of further worker rights erosion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

16. Really? Was it "illegals" that voted for all those "RIght to Work" laws

in the 18 states that passed them and underfunded labor unions? I thought it was white people who didn't want to pay union dues!!

[Robert Oak]

20. oh yeah,

I'm saying illegals were USED, ya know broke and desperate to eat..
of course they took the jobs.

but it's just unbelievable how America has pooped on labor when labor is what created the great middle class in the first place.

Ya know in 1980 the AFL-CIO endorsed REAGAN???? I saw that and thought Good god, are you all insane???

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Illegals did not take those union jobs

Furthermore, if you read up on Ceasar Chavez and the Farmworkers union, you could take a page from the past in seeing how one can make immigrants support YOUR cause.

I am against white protectionism. That IS bigoted. Again, more harm is done by LEGAL immigration such as visas granted to drive down wages in the tech sector.

Tancredo is using the immigration issue to wedge poor person against poor person and white males are all too happy to oblige.

[Robert Oak]

29. YES THEY DID

Read ...let me see, a LIBERAL text:

"What's the Matter with Kansas"...he talks about illegals being used to union bust all over the state.

U right on H-1B, L-1...and hence we focus on that one a lot!

But, you must care about low wage US workers if you expect them to care about high tech workers...it's the same game.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

34. Kansas has FUCKING RIGHT TO WORK LAWS

WHITE PEOPLE VOTED FOR THEM. WHITE PEOPLE SEALED THEIR OWN FUCKING DEAL...NOT A SINGLE ILLGAL PASSED A RIGHT TO WORK LAW!!!

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. Yeah I have anger problem with people who scapegoat mexicans

[Robert Oak]

41. you are out of line, posting blatant insults that are false

You can say this sort of outrageous rhetoric until your mouth bleeds dry.

Labor economics and a strong middle class is our motive, which we believe benefits overall economic health.

That has nothing to do with racism and these constant accusations are truly what they are...hot air to obscurate the real issue of illegal immigration, labor rights and good labor economic policy.

[barb162]

48. Good labor economic policy...what beautiful words

It is unfortunate that what is being practiced in this country is a free for all to the bottom of nonlivable wage for American workers or no jobs at all. Courtesy of Bush and all other administrations who can't figure out (or don't care) that this country will only thrive when American workers are valued and keep their jobs.

[xxqqqzme]

62. righto- all my New Mexico friends

do not trust him or like him very much because he IS such a DLC hack. One says she ONLY voted 4 him because he is a 'D' but she didn't like voting 4 him.

[loudsue]

65. Richardson stopped a legitimate recount in the 2004 election.

He AIN'T NO DEMOCRAT! He's an opportunist, publicity seeking corporatist, and he doesn't give a rat's ass about WE, THE PEOPLE. I lived in New Mexico, and part of the reason he garnered votes from our side was because he was Hispanic and ran on the Dem ticket. The reason he got votes from the other side, which put him over the top, is because he sold his soul to them, and they know it.

Richardson is another repuke in Dem clothing.

:kick:

[NCPatriot]

8. New Member - {Armor On for this Post}

Hi All -

New member here from the great NC! I will stray off topic only for a brief intro to myself... 40 Year Old white male, 7 kids, 2 income house, blah...blah... blah... Never really intrigued by the whole political process until 3-4 years ago. Sure, I always voted, but never really took the time to look beneath the issues and understand the implications!

I consider myself more blue than red... however I feel that the man or woman with the best message and history, deserves to represent our people.

Now to the topic... Immigration enforcement, or lack thereof.

I whole heartedly agree that regardless of what, where or when a person comes into the USA, they are still a member of the human race. They deserve to be treated with the decency and respect any of us have come to expect from fellow countrymen. About here is where I stray!

Without being labeled a troll on my first post, I feel the impact of illegal immigration is going to come back and haunt our economy much more than high gas prices!

25 years from now our Govt will be dealing with MACLU, and we the tax payers (Or our Children) will be footing the bill for reparations to the mexican american community, as our previous Corporate Govt officials (CEO Bush, and CFO Cheney) allowed and encouraged a mass migration into our country, where the greedy corporate hounds were allowed to exploit these people to stretch the bottom line! 21 century slavery, disguised as unskilled labor doing jobs that americans did not want to do!

OK... now that my toe is in the water... I guess I should just how hot or cold it is!

Welcome to me!

[annabanana]

10. Welcome to DU, NCPatriot

lol.. You didn't just stick your toe in the water... you just jumped head first into the deep end of an issue that we are wrassling with in an all out tussle.

IMHO, there are valid points to both basic sides of this argument and clearly the temp is turned up somewhat above "simmer".

I'm glad you're here, don't necessarily agree with what you say
, but will defend to the death your right to say it!
:toast:

[Robert Oak]

14. LOL Welcome to DU

you right, on your first post you stuck your toe in the ultimate hot spot on liberal blogs. :)

You have courage!

Yes, that is the issue here, labor economics and why I bother to repost and comment and post...to get it off of this "racist" rant and onto the real issues at hand.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NCPatriot]

23. WOW - The water IS warm in here!

hmmm...

"America's problems are not and were not caused by Mexicans. They were caused by White Males"

I think that may well have been the message I was pushing across! So if you find it was a bit unfair to white professional corporate CEO's, you are spot on!

US Corporate GREED is the only winner here. They are not only allowed, but encouraged by the little Rat * to continue hiring low-wage undocumented workers.

There is no easy answer to the problem, but it MUST start by securing the borders or the problem just grows as each day passes.

Ultimately, our economy is too reliant on these workers to just "send them home".

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. I agree...GREED is the culprit

but remember American were quick to vote for right to work laws so that they didn't have to pay union dues even though the unions still HAVE to represent them in a labor dispute..this noose was tied around the American workers' neck by his own self.

[Robert Oak]

28. Try trade

Trade is somewhat safer and is a major component on this issue as well..
there are a lot of "free traitors" running around on the liberal site
who don't get it...
but fortunately Ralph Nader and the Greens have been educating people for a while...

this issue is still in the dark in terms of what it means economically.

[cpamomfromtexas]

64. Corporations victimizing everyone

We have corporations intent on victimizing everyone, those here that hold jobs now and those that will take those jobs for less.

What if corporate heads had to sign off on documents certifying that they do not break any employment laws. After all, there are fines on the books, but they are never enforced. This would be similar the documents to certifying the books for the SEC. What if jail time were introduced for fraudulent employment? Only when employment laws are enforced should the visa programs be expanded.

[Megahurtz]

18. You're Funny NCPatriot!

Welcome to DU!:hi:

[NCPatriot]

32. Thanks for the wave!

[alarimer]

46. It would stop if they arrested the people who hired them

It is not the fault of the immigrants, but rather the people and companies who hire them. If there were REAL penalties for doing so, it would cease to be a major problem. But because Republicans and even some Democrats are in favor of "cheap labor" with their right to work laws, this will never happen.

[kestrel91316]

49. I support not only arresting the people who HEAD THE CORPORATIONS

who hire illegals, but I support the seizure of all assets of corporations that hire illegals if they repeatedly offend.

[Taoschick]

52. But....

What about the consumers? Our never ending quest for the cheapest goods and services contribute to the problem as well. We all talk about job losses but how many of us put our money where our mouth is and only purchase union made products?

[alarimer]

67. You are right about that too

We are part of the problem. We have come to expect really cheap vegetables and part of the price for that is really cheap labor composed mainly of migrant farmworkers ,legal and illegal.

[Castilleja]

63. That would get to the root of the problem, I think

Rather than coming down on the illegal immigrants.

[barb162]

56. Welcome!

Just wanted to mention I doubt we will be paying off reparations as this isn't a situation where slavery was involved or forced labor. If people more than willingly come here breaking our laws to do these jobs, I don't see what right they have to demand reparations. No one forced them to do those jobs and they could have stayed in their own countries.
Yes all humans have dignity, but that doesn't mean lawbreakers should be getting reparations when they willingly did the jobs. They have choices and they choose to break our laws. By the way, Vincente Fox likes the open border as much as his buddy Bush as the money the illegals send back home is second in income to that country only to the oil revenues.

"...doing jobs that americans did not want to do!" Americans used to do these jobs in construction,manufacturing, etc., and I think this is the biggest fallacy and lie of the open border proponents: that Americans won't do these jobs.

[pitohui]

9. what option does he have

this situation is serious

exotic newcastle disease brought in by illegals carrying fighting cocks caused millions of $$$ in losses in calif. a yr or so ago

border controls need to be strong to protect our food industry from introduced diseases

[Robert Oak]

22. oh but don't ya know

it's just racist white supremacists making up a bunch of shit..

you can see it on this post and why I posted it..

anything to deny this really is a serious issue and that he didn't have a choice.

You saw it..someone tried to say he sold out the DLC when the DLC wants open borders for cheap labor and guest worker VISAS to avoid any ability to unionize and have worker rights plus import much cheaper workers than the prevailing US wages.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

26. Sorry but I have visited your web site and CAIR is RACIST

and scapegoating.

[Robert Oak]

31. bs go make your own site then

There is no "CAIR" and I check out these groups constantly.

I've yet to find anything credible sources for your claim...
if I do not find anything that's too bad...I don't remove things simply because of a few people making accusations without evidence.

When I say evidence, evidence from credible sources.

I guess Bernie Sanders is a racist white supremacist, Ralph Nader,
Peter DeFazio and the list goes on and on.

What we care about is how introduces legislation to enhance the middle class and stop the race to the bottom...

[Horse with no Name]

33. Liberal Democrat?

:rofl:
He is so far in bed with the Neocons that he can't roll over without knocking them on the floor.

[Robert Oak]

35. NeoCons want open border

He can't be in bed with them on this issue for they want open border,
illegals for cheap labor for business..

Read Grover Norquist 2nd term diet for the real meat on the agenda.

[Horse with no Name]

37. I didn't address your issue because I wasn't in the mood to

argue a point that NSMA is arguing very well on.
However--was just pointing out that you said he was a liberal Democrat--couldn't help chuckle on that misrepresentation.
:rofl:

[Robert Oak]

39. ok, point taken

But, my main point was one could not claim "white man" or "Freeper"
"Nazi" rhetoric for it isn't valid..

But, truly Neo-con agenda is for unlimited worker movement plus moving workers as an "commodity to be traded" (where does this sound familiar from, could it be 1820, international slave trade?) in WTO, GATS mode 4...so they don't want to close the border..
I'd say that is obvious since they make every attempt to underfund border security.

I don't think NSMA is arguing well at all...we have alot of name calling and shouting going on.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. Oh stop. Nobody called you names.

I pointed out that your position was protectionist, that you are scapegoating one group of people for America's economic woes and that right to work laws had TEN times more to do with dissolving unions than mexicans and you, for some reason are insulted by any cause that does not lay the blame at the feet of undocumented workers.

Oh byeah..and Tom Tancredo is a racist Republican nutcase...you seem to be able to justify that though.

[klyon]

55. I really don't believe you can paint with a broad brush

some on the left believe in open borders others believe in control of some sort while you can also find both opinions on the right.

The fact remains that some groups may be racially motivated that doesn't mean they everyone with the same position is racist.

KL

[LeftyElvis]

43. Look

We should be encouraging and supportive of anyone who wants to legally immigrate to this country. Undocumented aliens are breaking the law by crossing the border, getting forged documents and working here, as are the people who hire them. Illegal immigration has gone out of control since monkey boy came into office and I believe he has encouraged it. The reason? Cheap labor and to break the backs of unions. His tacit approval of letting a literal invasion happen is one of the strongest reasons he should be impeached.

[Zorra]

44. Dude, I swear, Dole and Delmonte and every big agro company in the

world must have plants here at DU.

I have never seen another issue addressed more unreasonably here at DU than the issue of illegal workers from other countries taking American jobs. I have never seen a bunch of Democrats so intensely supportive of flooding the labor market and destroying labor solidarity.

If you oppose illegal workers from other countries taking American jobs, no matter how sensible your reasoning, how factual your information, or how logical your arguments, you get labeled as a racist, even if you are not of caucasian European descent.

Good luck, amigo, I refuse to debate this issue here any more. With some folks here, it is almost like trying to have a rational discussion with a republican. In other words, it is impossible.

When some of these folks are fighting to keep their jobs in the future, in a job market that is so competitive it makes Japan's job market look like the US job market in the 50's, you'll be able to say "See, I told you so" while you are waiting for chow in the breadline.

I doubt you'll be happy about that, though; it is really no consolation at all.

[Robert Oak]

45. ah, thank you not all DUers are this way

Many are debating the issues logically.

But, to post the latest bill and analyze from a liberal perspective is probably impossible on DU due to this constant name calling and "spamming" a post.

[barb162]

50. I just wanted to mention that your posts on this subject are

so LUCID and reasonable. I don't know how many times I have gotten into it with some posters on this subject. Rational discourse and solutions are needed as this is such a serious problem. Name-calling is not needed but that's about all you get on these boards.

[Robert Oak]

51. thank you

I take it on because I am so secure in my position on affirmative action, equality and social justice.

But it is absurd I agree. I am now saying doing this behavior is the same as those freepers who scream "baby killer" at the mention of a woman's right to choose.

But, that is the strategy, on any liberal blog one gets these "spammers"
who basically do not want the topic discussed.

It's absurd.

The good news is there are so many Democrats who raise this issue
and want something done.

The bad news is because of this "out scream" behavior the Democratic party is really nowhere, believing this small minority actually represents Democrats. It's not true, I hope they are reading the polls.

[barb162]

57. Ah yes, the "out-scream" behavior

I know it well. There's a tiny fraction of Democrats who do this and they are on this board bigtime (and even they are a small fraction of DU) and they think they represent the "true" Democratric party. Some people here on DU will look at the NM story and undoubtedly deduce that the people of NM are racists for wanting the illegals stopped. They have a little problem with reality testing and reality checking. When you look at who the people are electing, you would think the screamers would screw their heads back on straight, but all that results is they scream louder, never getting the fact that most Democrats are not as far to the left as they are and never will be.

I think most people in this country want the illegals streaming in here to stop and most people (Republicans and Democrats) want true border security. I think most people understand that state and federal taxes are not being paid by illegals but services are being used heavily, tiny little things like schools, hospitals, etc. The cost of illegals in this country is really huge as they send money back home and don't contribute to ther tax base, other than for basically sales tax.

Yes, they do not even want the topic discussed, these big defenders of the Bill of Rights and civil liberties. As soon as the topic is brought up, certain words come spewing off those keyboards: Hitler, racist, scapegoating, fascist.... Also, I think it is getting worse; any contrarian opinion is immediately, as you mention, spammed off by the name-callers

[Robert Oak]

66. more out-scream

There must be some political group motivating this strategy.

I really condemn action without reason.

Anyway, I think most Americans want secure borders. The polls come in at 80%.

The polls are so strong this is now supposed to be a major issue in 2006.

The place (except for this small "sect" of "scream spammers") where the controversy seems to really boil is on deportation versus amnesty.

Most Americans poll for deportation. I personally think that's a bad idea. I also think amnesty is a bad idea. I cannot imagine rounding up 20M people and deporting them frankly. It sounds inhumane....but amnesty on the other hand is also a disaster for even more illegals will border hop under those conditions as well as legal residence status will be given to some that truly should not be allowed in the country. Finally it's not fair to those who played by the rules and came here legally. The immigration system is a mass of bureaucracy and they play by the rules only to have someone who crossed illegally get the thing they worked so hard for. It's really a problem there.

So, for now, I lean toward a case by case basis evaluation to give "earned legal status" for illegal aliens with a uniform set of criteria.

Things like: Do they have a job and are self-supporting and have not abused the system with fake IDs and getting social services and what not. Is the rest of their family here? Do they have a college education. Do they have a particular skill? and exceptions for spousal abuse or other life threatening scenarios (this might be tricky) if they return to their home country (you ratted on a drug lord in Columbia and they will kill you and so forth).

Anyone with any felony should be deported to get rid of the criminals, gangs and what not. They should do criminal background checks both sides of the border.

I also think "guest worker Visas" smell badly for they override US employment laws and minimum wage and the worst is a employer has control over the worker's ability to stay in the country. If the employer wishes they can simply fire the worker, the Visa is revoked and then the worker is deported. Ripe with worker abuses and further erosion of labor rights in the United States.

In high tech, the H-1B Visa is being used to bring in engineers at a much cheaper rate than American engineers as well as "control" their status.

On the other hand, I believe without agriculture subsidies on labor, prices would shoot way up, so seasonal workers with some strict regulations might be ok. I don't know.

It's very tricky I think to craft policy that is fair yet stops this insanity.

Key is to craft policy from a "Pro labor" viewpoint. Borjas has some exceptional research on labor economics that I believe could help craft a policy to increase overall standards of living for Americans and could be used to create a "Pro labor" immigration policy.
(unfortunately the screamers blast the economists too).

I do know that multinational corporations and of course Bush corporation want unlimited worker movement to erode worker rights, bust minimum wage and create labor arbitrage on a global scale.

Economically this is a massive "race to the bottom" and why I am so against this "open border" "one world order" idea. Sounds good if you're 5 in terms of "the whole world can join hands and be as one"...but the economic disparities between nations will cause an economic disaster for all workers on a global scale if multinationals get their way. the PPI disparity alone..well, this is one reason we have so many illegals right now.

This "unlimited worker movement" is a very big deal. Right now in the WTO, GATS mode 4 there are proposals trying to do this very thing: make immigration policy so workers "are commodities to be traded" and takes immigration policy out of the control of nation-states and into the WTO. Then immigration policy could be seen as a barrier to trade. In this case they are trading people.

Here is the hidden motivation of multinational corporations and the very big deal. This is why I personally get frustrated with these attempts to silence any discussion on this topic. Multinational corporations wish to move immigration policy from nation-states and make people commodities to be traded via trade policies! To, me this is so reminiscent of the international slave trade and slave economics! This is why I continue to post and raise awareness on this issue. Want to discuss unjust, racist, caste system and repression? Here is the big kahuna and the screamers are helping multinational corporations out anyway they can by this current strategy to repress discussion.

There is another aspect. Free trade right now brings workers around the globe "down" and it is a huge labor arbitrage system. That needs to be changed to raise up workers around the globe. If South of the border countries had a PPI more like Canada, we would not even be having this controversy for no one would need to escape poverty. So, major reform of trade policy is another huge component.

Oops: another aspect: stop the enabling of the underground economy in the US. (This is fake IDs and ability to be a citizen in all financial terms while being illegal). It's plain unfair to real ID's people. It also undermines the economy (underground economies).

Of course Tancredo is correct in his desire to severely punish employers for hiring illegals...this is another major component (please note I did not endorse all of his ideas, but this one is dead on).

[barb162]

47. You get the picture.

A lot of Democrats can't see they are falling straight into the Bush trap and lap by supporting illegal immigration just as he does. This country does not have an endless supply of jobs and Americans are constantly losing their jobs to illegals. It has been going on for years. It has to stop. And I am always glad to see another person who can see through the illogical horseshit here that whenever anyone is against illegal immigration, that person is incorrectly and always labelled a racist. Forget basic economics, basic finance, basic border security, basic facts, deductive reasoning, etc., anyone who is against illegals is a racist.

"I have never seen a bunch of Democrats so intensely supportive of flooding the labor market and destroying labor solidarity." Well said. Maybe the only way some Democrats will GET IT is if their jobs are taken by illegals or outsourced. Either way, illegals or outsourcing= another jobless American. Thank you Bush and all the Bush supporters and lackeys who support illegals streaming into this country by the millions every year.

[Zorra]

54. Bingo! "This country does not have an endless supply of jobs"

barb, that is exactly the message that I have been trying to convey.

Thank you.

[barb162]

58. Any time, friend! And thanks for writing such an

articulate and thoughtful post.

[wishlist]

53. On CNN Richardson says Border Patrol, Homeland Security lack resources

Richardson explained on CNN interview with Kitty Pilgrim (Lou Dobbs show) that this involves much more serious incidents than just the entry of illegal immigrants. He said that ranchers and local law enforcement demanded he do something about all of the problems they are having with stolen cattle, kidnappings, drug smuggling and other criminal activities because the Border Patrol and Homeland Security lack resources to keep the border area secure. He said he is trying to work with the Mexican govt and asked them to tear down and bulldoze a vacant "town" that is uninhabited with empty buildings below the border that is being used as a staging facility for all the illegal activities.

[barb162]

59. When one looks at the list of crimes mentioned just here

such as kidnapping, stealing, etc., it is appalling. Multiply this by all the border states and beyond the border states, including some super serious issues involving some really bad gangs, such as MS13. Do you remember the discussion on the Minutemen on these boards? To some posters the Minutemen were at the AZ border looking to kill "innocent" illegals, although not one illegal was ever harmed. Too bad some people can't even take a serious look at the crime being brought in to the US and the money and lives it is really costing this country.

Oops I must be a racist. :sarcasm:

[alfred e bush]

60. self defense

illegals dont keep prices down...they keep profits up

answer is simple....go after the employers....put a couple in jail...problems over

[barb162]

61. I agree . Employers should be fined bigtime, sent to jail for a

few years and should have all of their personal assets confiscated. The penalties have to be onerous to get this to stop. Unemployed Americans will do these jobs again just as they did for years before the illegals started coming in.