High Court OKs Calif. Gov. Redistricting (back on the ballot in CA)

[Rose Siding]

SAN FRANCISCO -- The California Supreme Court ruled Friday that Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's attempt to change the way the state's legislative districts are drawn should be placed back on November's special election ballot.

The ruling overturned an appellate court decision earlier this week that the initiative should remain off the ballot because of a wording dispute.
....
The state Supreme Court, however, said it wasn't convinced the two versions had different meanings.

"We conclude that it would not be appropriate to deny the electorate the opportunity to vote on Proposition 77 at the special election to be held on November 8, 2005, on the basis of such discrepancies," the majority wrote in the court's 4-2 ruling.

The appellate court, in a 2-1 decision, had determined the supporters violated constitutional and statutory procedures "by their own negligence."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR2005081201767.html

[AlCzervik]

1. Ugggghhhh!!!

[Cha]

2. It's a good thing then that

the shovelnator's polls are way down and people are realizing just how badly he sucks.

[wli]

3. yet another end-run around the people

[NV Whino]

4. Shit

Just shit.

[Daftly]

6. How is this an end around the people?

I don't care for the current gov, and I will be voting against this. However, how is letting the people vote on something like this an end around the people? The redistricting in Texas was an end around the people because it was done despite huge opposition.

[NV Whino]

7. Redistricting happens every 10 years after a census

I have no problem with redistricting under those conditions, which, by the way, is the law. Not only is this breaking the law, it's costing California a shit load of money, which it (we) don't have for a special election.

[xxqqqzme]

25. And the Prop is written that the

districts get re-drawn in 2010 anyway!!! And who gets 2 pay 4 the special census 2 re-draw the districts if this POS passes - which it will because there is now a rethug SOS and we don't have VVPB until 1/1/06. So this 'special election' will B rigged!

[Mountainman]

11. It is a repuke tactic to try and change the makeup if districts because

they can't get control of the state without it. If there were no change then the Dems who are in control could set up the new districts just as the repukes did in Texas.

Basically this is a attempt at a power grab by the repukes just as the recall was. They just can't win in an honest election here because of their attack on prop 187 during Wilson's term.

This will probably pass just as the recall did and the people will get shafted by the repukes just as arnold their sock puppet is doing to us now. Where is the 2 billion in education funds that arnold took and promiced to give back? Why did Enron get off the hook of repaying the 9 billion they took from the people with the energy scam? The repukes are the worst kind of scum that walks the earth here. Self interested greedy pig fuckers.

[Daftly]

13. Hold the phone. Isn't California Very Blue?

No matter the situation or how it is getting on the ballot, the people will have to ok it for it to become the new law. Yes, it is a Repug tactic to change the manner of redistricting. However, if such a thing should ever be shot down, it should be shot down in California. We should have no fear of it being on the ballot as such a heavily Democratic state should reject it outright.

Yes, the governor was elected due to the recall. But again, the state is overwhelmingly Democratic. Yet, the Dems ran no decent candidate. We couldn't even beat Arnold with McClintock splitting and grabbing a good portion of the right wing vote.

I hope the people of California have learned their lesson, and the Dems mount a competent challenge when he runs for reelection. Likewise, redistricting is an issue we need to win on merit, not due to a legal technicality. If not, it is our own stupid faults for not putting up a decent challenge to argue the issue. We should never fear a vote of the people.

[Mountainman]

16. Being blue has nothing to do with it. People will not understand what

they are voting for. Just like the propaganda machine that blamed the blackouts on Davis the propaganda machine is already at work supporting the initiative. There is never any rebuttal to this propaganda which is on the radio 24/7. People never hear the whole truth and that's why the repukes can do this. If the people were fully informed as an electorate should be than maybe there would be a fair election and honest vote.

The repuke noise machine is all people ever hear. I live near Bakersfield and I NEVER! NEVER! hear the Dem side of anything on local radio which is all you can get here.

[Daftly]

17. Our lack of organization is no excuse.

It is our downfall. If we don't express our views and fight for the issues, of course the other side will win. They have a loud noise machine because they have been building it for years. What have we done as a party? We've sat around with our thumbs up our butts complaining it isn't fair.

The Dem party is still the dominant party in California. There are plenty of people who can and should go to the media and fight these types of things locally every day. Hate radio is only one form of media, and it is one that most people do not bother listening to. Most people come home from work, flip on the evening news, say "oh, that's what is going on," and from that base a decision. They don't have the time or energy to do politics when they are eeking out a living.

Dems still have alot of access to the media in this state. We must win the battle of ideas with the people. Otherwise, as the courts persuasion shifts we will continue to lose power in that area as well. As they say, it is a battle for the hearts and minds, but I say that battle needs to be fought here first.

[Mountainman]

20. If you turn on your radio in my area as you drive to work you hear

either Laura Ighram or Imus or NPR unless you want to hear mindless dj's on music stations. Then when you stop for your donuts they have Fox news on the TV. At work they have Rush and Hanity and Dr Laura and a few more. Then driving home you have Savage, a local right wing nut and a couple more national wing nuts. Nothing else to listen to. People get saturated for a couple of hours with this stuff daily. Even John and Ken in LA support the repukes in everything they do. If it isn't some local trial or a dog bite it is pro repuke talking points for 3 hours.

I'm not saying this is any kind of excuse. I'm telling you how it is and why this is not a fair election. There use to be such a thing as equal time. The right owns the media here. Our paper the Californian endorsed Bush and said that the things that went wrong in his first term were not his fault but things he had trust on him.

[Daftly]

28. We're in the same boat.

I'm between San Jose and San Francisco. I'm not saying that the radio is not saturated with hate. Rather that most people do not listen to it. They would rather listen to what ever dj of the moment.

Sure we should work inroads to radio, but we could still have a large impact on local telecasts and newspapers.

[xxqqqzme]

27. the CA democratic party is asleep @ the wheel

State party chair is lazy cuz 'dems control the state' & they have been lulled N2 inaction. Got news 4 U Torres, the rethugs R spending bucks 2 turn this state red.

[Daftly]

29. And if the Dem party does nothing, who can we blame?

At least the Repugs are willing to fight and take a stand.

[anotherdrew]

32. what party? where's the beer?

keg line forms where?

[krkaufman]

35. The airwaves are a matter of money...

... and not organization, regarding the degree to which right-wing talking points saturate the "conversation."

[Daftly]

44. You cannot say Dems don't have money.

There are plenty of us who have it. If talk radio were a priority, they could get in on the game if it is all about money. At the very least it would be another outlet for us.

[AndyTiedye]

40. But They OWN the Media

If we don't express our views and fight for the issues,

We have been expressing them, but nobody can hear us.

of course the other side will win. They have a loud noise machine because they have been building it for years.

They have a loud noise machine because they own the media. That means
our voices, however loud, will not be heard outside of shouting range
of wherever we are standing.

The Dem party is still the dominant party in California.

But we're on the ropes. Our party clearly represents the views of
most Californians, but that doesn't matter anymore. We represent
the views of most Americans according to all the surveys as well,
but we have practically been run out of Washington.

There are plenty of people who can and should go to the media and fight these types of things locally every day.

Go to the media and do what? There's nothing we can do to get our
side on TV, is there? Run a few seconds of ads in the middle of their
wall-to-wall support for the gerrymander?

Most people come home from work, flip on the evening news, say "oh, that's what is going on," and from that base a decision. They don't have the time or energy to do politics when they are eeking out a living.

You have stated the problem quite succinctly. All of those people
will make their decisions based on what the TV networks tell them.
They will present only the Bush/Rove/Arnie side, of course, while
the opposition will get no TV coverage whatsoever.

Dems still have alot of access to the media in this state.

Only print media, and not very much of that. People who read are
almost all on our side already. Repubs own the TV stations, like
everywhere else.

We must win the battle of ideas with the people.

How? Our ideas don't get through the media filter.

They only have to get within 15-20% in the polls to make it believable.
The machinez can do the rest.

I have no idea how to begin to fight this.

[depakid]

18. Yep- Californians are about as uniformed a citizenry

as there is anywhere. I suspect that a majority be suckered into voting for this.

While I lived there, it just amazed me to see what stupid things they'd vote for- usually with even stupider reasons or doing so...

Since the media campaign is sure to be totally one sided, I'd say this has a pretty good probablity of passing.

[AndyTiedye]

45. We Have the Most Informed and the Least Informed

We have San Francisco and Berkeley, but we also have FreeperRepublic down in the Central Valley.

[AndyTiedye]

38. With Groper's Hand-Picked S.O.S and Paperless Ballots...

...it doesn't really matter what the people think of this proposal.

The saturation media campaign is just to make the theft credible.

[flyarm]

19. ahhhhh you are getting diebold right?? or es&s..welcome to

the new screwing of the country..you now join us in fla..we are fighting to change bushy boys redistricting us that got shoved down our throats..before 2000!
you better fight to take this all the way to supreme court!

[Daftly]

21. I'm hesitant on the Diebold thing for one reason.

If the elections are rigged, why is the party not screaming bloody murder about this issue. If the elections are rigged, this would be the most important issue to any politician that is not Repuke. There are plenty of Dems with clout in this country but there is a deafening silence. There has been no real outcry by any real politician with a stake in this.

If Kerry was cheated why isn't he screaming about it? If Dean is the party chairman why is this not the only priority on the agenda? If Hillary, Biden, Kusinich, Gore, or any of the others want to be president, why do they say nothing? If the Dem senators and congressmen want to keep their jobs, why are they not raising holy hell? They would have to know that you cannot win when you opponent has fixed the game.

In my mind there can be only one of 2 answers to this question.

1.) The Dems are in on it and foolish enough to believe they will be allowed to regain power. Not likely though one or two presidential hopefuls could be convinced to go along with it in order to be selected.

OR

2.) Diebold is a red herring for the left. If you think the election is rigged, why would you bother to vote? If enough people think this way, you have a self fulfilling prophesy because opposition voters won't bother to turn out.

My suggestion is to quit harping on this and work as if it matters even if you do not believe that it does.

[leesa]

37. Duh! How do you PROVE it when the computer patches are

undetectable? How do you prove it when they use a thousand different vote stealing tactics at once.

Are you frickin' waiting to hear about it in their media??

[Daftly]

47. Not the media, but every Dem politician would make it THE ONLY

priority. Even if you can't prove it, you would squawk. You would scream at the top of your lungs that there must be reform.

Even if you knew it but couldn't prove it you would cry for a paper trail as a "preventative measure." The fact that they are not screaming about foul play and for reform tells me that they do not believe there was significant or wide spread fraud. They may not even believe there was any voter fraud at all.

OR

They are in on the fraud and know they are safe.

Those are the only possible answers in my mind. If they believed the game was rigged they would cry for change just to make things transparent. The fact that they are not tells me that they are happy with the current system.


Guys. I've read the evidence on this. To me the evidence would be quite compelling. However, if the politicians that would be effected are not bothering to fight, i'm coming to believe there is nothing there. A paper trail is a good idea to keep things honest, but where is the noise from the politicians.

Perhaps the loss in Ohio was legitimate. It is just a hard pill to swallow.

[AndyTiedye]

43. Another Option

3) They can't DO anything about Diebold, because hey haven't got the
votes. Besides, there is no way to prove anything, other than a bunch
of impossibly improbable statistical anomolies. Since they can't fight
back against Diebold, they are laying low and hoping that they can
keep their jobs for a few more years.

My suggestion is to quit harping on this and work as if it matters even if you do not believe that it does.

Of course it matters! The only way we can win this or any other
election they care about is to be so far ahead that it will be too
obviously rigged if they steal it. Anything that comes within 15-20
points can be stolen. We need to be ahead by more than that.

[natrat]

22. please

the supreme kangaroo court

[AndyTiedye]

24. Because the Election Will Be FIXED. No Verifiable Votes Till Next Year

There is a reason that Groper insisted on having the vote this year.
We don't get verifiable ballots on the DRE machinez until next year.

They want this bad. They'll probably spend over $100M on advertising
in favor of it. That won't convince many people, but it will make
it easier for them to explain it away when the measure "passes" despite
massive opposition.

[Daftly]

30. I doubt the opposition will mount anything massive. N/T

[Al-CIAda]

39. Yes sir, 'democracy' is over in America. It has been stolen by the

corporatists. The game is rigged and by their silence, our 'leaders' are complicit.

[leesa]

36. Because they fix the vote...it's not a real vote. You don't think Arnold

won the Governorship honestly, do you?

[proud patriot]

5. Well that's BOGUS

x(

[bribri16]

8. The folks in CA should not give Arnie ANYTHING he wants. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

9. They're systematically dismantling all threats to an "all-red" nation

[6000eliot]

10. This is what getting the gropenator elected was all about anyway.

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. That and cutting down the Enron judgement...

[Daftly]

14. And if we as a people are stupid enough to vote for it...

we will get what we deserve.

[shanti]

15. oh, i'm pissed!!!

how does an appeal get heard so quickly? this doesn't seem normal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. GOD

[AtomicKitten]

26. That is just outrageous.

Be sure to let the Republicans know that those liberal, out of the mainstream, activist California courts just struck a blow for the opposite of a democracy.

[anotherdrew]

31. insane. No sane court would permit this. They must have been bought

recall every judge.

[K8-EEE]

33. This Will Go DOWN IN FLAMES as will AHNULD....

OMG>>> ARNOLD couldn't get ANYTHING passed at this point, he's the most hated man in CA.

[KeepItReal]

34. This is how the freaking recall happened. Same folks in action:

These are the group of folks who *illegally* collected signatures (using out-of-state help) for the recall of Gray Davis. Now they illegally circulate another petition (with incorrect language in it) and *still* get their measure on the ballot.

"The Davis Recall.committee is a special project of People's Advocate Inc.

People's Advocate is a California non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation. Its mission is to be a government watchdog on matters of taxation, government spending and other issues of importance to the public.... In the last 20 years People's Advocate has qualified 12 statewide initiatives for the ballot; and People's Advocate has never failed to qualify a measure it sponsored. A complete history of People's Advocate can be found on its website Peoplesadvocate.org" "


http://www.ahrc.com/new/index.php/src/govt/sub/initiative/action/viewComments/mediaid/4

[brentspeak]

41. You know, people talk about how Red-staters are "ignorant"

But what does it say about the people of California when they support a barely-legal coup to install Arnold Schwarzenegger as their governor?

Didn't Arnie run as an "I won't accept special interest money" guy, and yet that is exactly what he's become (and always was)? Why aren't there mobs of California residents with pitchforks outside the Governor's Mansion demanding to know why Arnie let Enron off the hook re. the $9 billion it owes the state of California?

[AndyTiedye]

42. We're a Bit Short on Pitchforks, But We've Got the Mobs

Every time the Groper shows his face in public there are crowds of protestors.

[Al-CIAda]

46. Elections: Fascist regemes have them too-

THE PROJECT FOR THE OLD AMERICAN CENTURY

  The Project for the OLD American Century is a grass-roots organization that strives to protect and strengthen democracy primarily by disseminating unreported and underreported news stories from a perspective untainted by political or corporate sponsorship. 

  The Project was founded in 2002 in response to a rigged election, reduced civil liberties, a hijacking of our domestic and foreign policies by the energy/defense industries, and a compliant corporate media that refused to make these problems prominent in our national consciousness.  We felt it our duty as patriots to create a web-based independent media outlet where we can not only debunk the myth of the liberal media but expose the corruption and cronyism taking place at the highest levels of government and corporate power.

  The Project for the Old American Century conducts its own research and compiles dossiers made available to the public both via the web or in print free of charge. Topics include conflicts of interest inside government agencies, specific profiles of top public officials, data acquired through the Freedom of Information Act, and much more.


http://www.oldamericancentury.org/about.html