New 9/11 tapes show mass confusion

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=ca9fa3d71b40145f

Big News Network.com Saturday 13th August, 2005 (UPI)

An audio archive of Sept. 11, 2001, released by the city of New York has unveiled a lack of planning for an emergency of that scale.

The archive released Saturday is an account of the terrorist attacks from the perspective of paramedics, emergency crews and their supervisors, The New York Times reports.

The recordings of interviews, dispatches and phone calls paint a picture where no one was in command, the radio system didn't work, and rescue workers were on their own to help victims.

more...

Paints a different picture than what the news media propoganda fed America!!! We can handle it like thats BS!!!

[NVMojo]

1. the real tragedy is the confusion the Bush administration has created

over who the hell did this to us!!!

[TomClash]

5. Isn't that the truth?

It was mass confusion on the ground that day.

[leesa]

14. The confusion was planned. BushCo did it.

[lovuian]

2. I found some stuff from the tapes which I seriously doubt our

news media will print!!! This is an out of country source but I feel we need to know

these are some excerpts from the tapes

I warn you guys this is horrible stuff and might give nightmares

Don't read this if you can't handle it!!! Seriously*****

*****************************************************************

excerpt

A firefighter sees people falling from the twin towers. “I felt like I was intruding on a sacrament. They were choosing to die, and I was watching them and shouldn’t have been, so me and another guy turned away and looked at the wall and we could still hear them hit.”


another excerpt

A rescuer expresses frustration with the coordination of the emergency operation. “I’m getting four different chiefs giving me four different command posts. …Somebody at the scene has got to help me out and consolidate this.”

Another excerpt

• “I’m trapped,” says a civilian on a Fire Department radio dispatch tape. “I can’t breathe much longer. Save me. I don’t have much air. Please help me. I can barely breathe.”

The main thing is they were warned to get out but they never heard it!!!



Its so sad and we still haven't learned a damn thing!!!

[Dogmudgeon]

7. This actually has been reported in the American media

It was all over the news internationally earlier this past week; it's not a "secret" any longer.

Most of the fire and rescue personnel had been issued radios that didn't work, and some of them had to deal with oxygen bottles that were empty, first-aid kits that had been turned into trash recepticles, etc. Some of this came out in the hearings.

Unfortunately, it seems like our press and public media are more interested in how terrible it is that lawsuits are being planned and that there are some "conspiracy theorists".

Of course, very little has been done to improve our emergency responsiveness since 9-11, and our border entry vulnerabilities are worse than ever. But we're addressing the border problem -- by encouraging anti-Mexican bigotry and making informal border guards out of junior Klansmen with guns.

Yeah, when that pilfered 30 kT Pakistani nuke goes off in Los Angeles or Washington or Houston, we'll be able to give Lou Dobbs an interview with our heads held high.

--p!

[nodehopper]

16. question

do you happen to have the link for either transcripts or audio? I can't find it...thanks!

[lovuian]

22. I don't have the transcripts or audio when looking through

the other countries newspapers I found these excerpts...

Has anybody from excerpts from the transcripts at US Newspapers!!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. The two Frenchmen who did the documentary on the NYFD...

...documented the crashing bodies from inside the lobby of one of the WTC towers. It was horrendous...very loud crashes onto the concrete.

The guy who was trapped was a civilian who was trapped inside a NYFD vehicle under the debris.

[keopeli]

3. These are important tape recordings of American Heroes

Every rescue worker involved in 9/11 that gave their lives also gave us a glimpse of what that tragic moment was like.

To say that America was unprepared for the scale of that terrorist attack is an understatement. There are many lessons that the Fire, Police, and Medical Response will be able to learn from these tapes.

But, there is an added layer of tragedy that these tapes reveal. The reality is that many of the lessons that our American Heroes gave their lives for us to learn were shielded by our media almost universally.

I'm curious if Rescue Operations nationwide have been upgraded to deal with these types of issues, or if the image of America being safe superseded National Security?

American media has worked hard to make Americans feel safe. But, the trauma of the initial attack is over and National Security is at stake.

If we must have a Federal Government which is totally Republican, then we should expect them to address our current needs.

We need better National Security.
We need gas prices to stop rising.
We need health care and the cost of medicine to be addressed.
We need to fix the Iraq debacle.

And, Cindy needs an explanation.

We need a media that will respond to the people and not the government.

We must start admitting our mistakes, learning our lessons, and building this country back into what it is supposed to be.

Damn, this stuff fires me up!

Keo

[lovuian]

4. Keo that was awesome!!! I just got a call from Homeland Security

actually it was an agency working for them. I can't say what I do for a living but I am medical profession. They want names for First Responders...

Yes people the government is getting ready and as a medical personal person they know where I live. and my telephone number.

I have to think about my family and then do I really have a choice in this administration!!!

lots of Issues here!!!

[moodforaday]

9. Can you say more?

What are you saying exactly? That the gvt is preparing for some major emergency? Do you know and can you say what kind?

[lovuian]

23. Ok I got a phone call 2 days ago from a Homeland Security

agency that works on contract. They told me they needed me to call and register as a First responder for possible Bio or Nuclear disaster. They didn't make it sound voluntary... in fact they only gave the option to register. I know better. People are asking me where on the emails. Its the Dallas office that called. That must be a major FEMA HDQ. Because people I don't live in Dallas. Actually pretty freakin far away. Now I ask ya how am I going to be a First Responder when I'm freakin lots and lots of hours away. My guess is they will gather up all First Responders and transport us to where the disaster is.

Any medical personal may well be drafted if Martial Law happens...
You ask how will they find you??? If your licensed the state knows where you live. I have been telling people our Healthcare system is NOT prepared for disasters of overwhelming proportions. They should have long ago made healthcare professionals federal employees.

these are crazy times...

:crazy:

[Carni]

25. Nothing personal... but I hope you are a fake persona!

I was just reading another thread about a nuclear drill on August 17th and how the general that was canned for adultery had tried to stop the drill (I think?)

WTF are they up to now?

[lovuian]

27. I wish I could say I was fake but I'm the genuine article and I

played the Homeland Security message on my tape recorder to a fello DUEr. So I have a witness and I kept the recording... If I get a chance I'll have her confirm my message for ya...

They are up to something and they have to do it soon because Fitzgerald is getting ready to indict their butts!!!

[Carni]

31. Unfortunately I was being a smart ass and doing some wishful thinking

I have no doubt in my mind that bush is going to need some kind of a diversion--how nefarious that diversion would be is anyone's guess.
I believe what you posted but I am not happy to hear it.
I have been paranoid feeling the other shoe was about to drop for months.

[kestrel91316]

26. Well if you get shipped to Los Angeles when we get nuked ...........

you can come for a visit and I have a spare room. LOL

That is, IF my house is still standing.

[knitter4democracy]

36. I'm scared for my hubby.

He's an internist, and he's been saying for years that we're nowhere near prepared for anything big like a flu epidemic or a huge disaster. I think they should've made all of you federal employees ages ago, too. It'd be better for the big stuff and even the littler stuff.

[lovuian]

40. knitter4 ... You are so right and your hubby too

Yes we should have long ago been federal employees!!! then there would be none of this!!!

I will make a point
if you had a nuclear disaster

you can't send a young possibly pregnant aged women dealing with Nuclear stuff and also Bio terror!!!

so its going to be a certain type of First Responder

Get my point!!!

[knitter4democracy]

43. Oh yeah.

My dad was an engineer at a research lab that dealt with radiation as a by-product of the experiments. He made sure I knew the dangers (while mostly ignoring them himself) as his daughter.

They'd send my hubby right away, and he'd go. I know him--he'd want to help the victims and want to be there to help the other doctors. It just scares me, though, to think of what-all he could be exposed to.

[loudsue]

19. louvian: please check your e-mail...I just p.m.'d you.

Thanks! :hi:

:kick:

[lovuian]

24. Loud Sue its Dallas Office... but that doesn't mean much

cause I can tell ya your probably closer to Dallas than I am.

this is for National Security...they will probably transport us to a facility...

Military Health personal are strapped for Iraq casualties. Its going to get down to the people here in the US.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

34. My guess is that they are preparing for the predicted Avian Flu...

...pandemic. There is a lot going on in Asia, specifically China. Birds carrying the H5N1 virus have already begun to migrate out of China, and human cases are also being reported. Other diseases in India, Pakistan, Australia, and New Zealand are already at epidemic proportions. Hospitals are being overloaded.

Currently, the transmission of Avian Flu from one human to the next is not that effective, but with the number of Avian Flu variants already in existence (144 at last count), that won't last long at all.

Migratory birds are believed to be spreading the disease...domestic ducks, chickens, and geese are dying all over Asia. And it is also been infecting mammals with alarming frequency...and with equally alarming results.

Check out this webpage and scroll down to the replicating map:

The Agonist Message Board. Replicating Asia Map
<http://discuss.agonist.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=22028>

By the way, despite what you may have read or heard in the media, there is NO vaccine for the current variants of Avian Flu. The current mortality rate is about 55%.

[amerfayed]

45. Check out the Sonic Memorial for original audio about 9/11

thousands of unique clips:

http://www.sonicmemorial.org/

[KiwiLiberal]

6. I wonder...

If they will release the video footage of the Pentagon attack? Don't hold your breath...

[bribri16]

8. If you saw any of the previous tapes released you saw firefighters

standing around on the ground level of WTC11 not knowing what to do before the building collapsed. It was a picture of no-one in charge and terror and confusion. Yet Guiliani and Bush could parade around like they were in charge in the aftermath. I think if Guilani had not politicized the aftermath of the first WTC bombing under Clinton and moved most of the important functions of the city into the WTC towers and away from Wall Street and the political districts and set up headquarters elsewhere things might have been different.

THEN HERE IS THE BIGGIE THAT NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT BUT IS TRUE (and don't slam me for truth) A lot of the jobs for firefighters and policemen who worked the Wall Street beat and WTC area beat were plum jobs handed politically handed out. The jobs were not as intense and training a little looser than the jobs that fireman and police face in the inner city areas. Yes, there was racism, nepotism, favoritism involved and a knowledge that everyday events would not be as difficult as the events facing those in the more rough areas of NYC. Guiliani's goons handed out these plum jobs to families whose votes and loyalties they could count on. Corruption was and probably still is rampant in NYC but Guiliani could take extreme measures to rid the streets of vandals (a good thing) but often violating the civil rights of minorities and tacitly allowing some of the most heinous abuses of them to take place at the hands of "law enforcement" with back-door assurances that nothing would happen to the guilty while using that accomplishment to cover the many other heads of corruption of his government. These are the facts. There are real reasons why so many at the site of the 9/11 attacks seemed so dis-coordinated and ill-prepared yet many were able to perform great acts of heroism just by their own human spirits. God bless their souls.

[mtnester]

11. No one, no matter their training, experience level, or confidence level

of their ability to perform the job, could have anticipated what went on that day. You could have drilled your ASS off, and still not been prepared to stick to a "game plan."

And most agencies have drilled their asses off since on likely or possible scenarios, and believe me, if you are standing there watching people fall to their deaths by choice, you can DRILL that in advance all day, but everything changes when it happens. Our first responders are not robots. No one can ever, with any amount of training, speak to the emotions that will, because we are human beings, drive us in a tragedy like that.

WHEN it happens again, there will still be the command redirections, snafus no one anticipated because you cannot pre-think another human being's mind and actions, communications glitches, and there will still be heavy casualties, INCLUDING first responders, because, no matter your opinion on how favoritism, etc. play, those first responders will STILL risk and SACRIFICE their lives to try and save another. From the rough area assignements to the plum assignments, that is the way it is. And my friend, it will always be the bottom line for them, regardless of how "plum" their last working fire or EMS incident was. A working fire with victims trapped is the SAME in the rough areas as the plum areas.

Every Fire, EMS, EMA, and critical care facility in this country has trained for the next WHEN, having admitted they were ill prepared for this tupe of event, and every one of them has admitted also this training will still not prepare them. And the worst part is, the federal government is the one that ties their hands many times.

[bribri16]

12. The government didn't tie Guiliani's hands with the decisions he made.

His graft and corruption were a blank check. No, 9/11 could not be prevented but some of the actions or lack there of could have been.

[Neecy]

13. well...

If you read the book 102 Minutes by NYT reporter Jim Dwyer, you'll see the problems on that day go beyond the lack of drilling (although lack of drilling was a crucial failure) to an almost complete state of pre-event negligence on the part of the NY fire department.

Two major problems: in an area with 2,000 highrise buildings, the fire department - despite lavish funding - lacked even one helicopter to allow the command center to evaluate the fire zone in both towers. They had no idea that that upper floors of the south tower were beginning to shift - information that was available to the police department, since they did have a helicopter on the scene and the word went out immediately for police personnel to evacuate the south tower. The firefighters in the tower - over 100 of whom were resting on the 19th floor, since civilians below the fire zone had already evacuated, had no idea how short time was since their 15-year old radios didn't work and in any event couldn't pick up the police frequency. Could THAT have been avoided? Of course. Guiliani put out the myth that these firefighters were engaged in rescue - and they weren't. These were senseless, avoidable deaths.

Joint drilling between the fire and police departments prior to 9/11 most certainly would have made a difference in the fatality rate of firefighters. There's quite a bit more in the book, and I highly recommend it.

[bribri16]

21. I just wish more people would investigate and learn the truth.

Instead of praising Guiliani for being a hero they would almost ask for prison time.

[mtnester]

49. What it really sounds to me more than lack of preparation

was the appalling lack of modern, up to date equipment, which is a funding issue, so I will be happy to lay that in Guillani's lap.

[OzarkDem]

47. Thanks for confirming my suspicion

When listening to the tapes (and I listened to nearly all of them) I had the same impression - the leaders of the WTC based units seemed to know very little about SOP, etc. They all seemed to be running around in circles (with their chauffers driving them of course) didn't have all their equipment, etc.

OTOH, you could readily pick up on the professionalism of some of the other fire departments from outlying areas. Brooklyn had their plan together very quickly.

[ramapo]

10. Guiliani the "Genuis"

You didn't hear much blowback about the moronic decision he made to put the emergency operations center, constructed for millions of dollars, in the WTC.

Any person with an ounce of common sense would realize that you don't put your disaster command center in the midst of a complex that was already attacked once. But it was sexy and showy and proved to be completely useless. A smart decision would've to put the center in a warehouse in Queens.

[nodehopper]

17. yeah, no kidding!

or anywhere that wasn't, like, you know, a terrorist target.

[VADem11]

28. Yeah

The decision was stupid. I don't understand all of the Giuliani worship anyway. I can't believe some people are thinking he should run for president.

[MADem]

48. Gee, the timing of this is interesting

Perhaps they are marginalizing the thrice-married former Mayor just in time for the run-up to 08?

The story isn't really new, even though it did not get enough play in the US (gotta always be heroes who do the right thing, no mistakes or omissions, deliberate or otherwise, allowed!).

I always wonder about motive--with all of the crap going on the WH, perhaps they fear that the Mayor could stage a primary coup and take the GOP nomination...???

[Igel]

15. I must say, the picture it painted looked stunningly like the picture

that was painted a week after 9/11. Anything else is hype.

New radios. Radio/cell towers that were down. Incompatibility of the systems used by various emergency responders. Having first responders rush to the scene and not having commanders on the ground that knew what to do. The emergency command center being one of the things destroyed in the WTC. No efficient system of triage: set up too far away, be useless; set up to close, be killed. EMS vehicles after the first building collapse being operable. Streets so clogged that first responders had trouble getting through.

People jumping and falling from the building. Large pieces of aircraft reported on the ground by eyewitnesses (demolitions theorists, enjoy!).

All because of a newly revealed lack of planning? Lack of planning, yes. Newly revealed? Hardly. Wouldn't putting the chief emergency command center *inside* the WTC show a rather distinct lack of planning for this particular scenario?

[speedoo]

18. This shows what most of us already know about Giuliani.

That he, his crook police chief BernieTheGoonKerik and his incompetent Fire Chief deserve much of the blame for the failures on coordination, communications and leadership that took so many lives that day.

Unfortunately, Giuliani still carries a very positive image because of the way he was so visible that day, as compared to the Crawford Coward.

[Pastiche423]

38. "demolitions theorists, enjoy!"

What do plane parts have to do w/whether the buildings were imploded? One does not negate the other.

[Igel]

42. Not logically.

But on the ground, there's sometimes a difference.

There are a few people out and about that try to say that it was all demolition.

[Roland99]

20. And * cut funding to our 1st responders and sent many of them to Iraq.

[shanti]

41. well, isn't that convenient?

:hide: :scared:

[MountainLaurel]

46. Millions of DC's $$ for first responders

Were used to pay for the security and police overtime at Shrub's inauguration because the feds refused to cover the entire bill.

Living smack dab between Chez Cheney and Homeland Security headquarters, I sure the hell feel safer. NOT!

[lovuian]

29. What is freakin me out am I the ONLY one here who got the call

if anybody knows medical personal can ya ask if they got a phone call a couple of days ago... I actually wonder if they are looking at age and wonder what other criteria they are looking at...

Nobody else has thats so wierd!!!

[loudsue]

32. You may want to start a thread on this, lovuian

Maybe it would alert people who aren't reading this thread.

Frankly, I'm a little curious about this myself. I'd like to know how many people have been called, and put on alert.

Did they give you any time frame?

:kick::kick::kick:

[0007]

33. This is indeed strange.....I would like to know more.

I do know doctors and PA's here in Texas, but haven't heard anything as of yet.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. Check out my post #34. What I failed to mention is that the states....

...have been told to prepare a plan to deal with the coming flu pandemic, and to have it ready by the first of the year.

[lovuian]

44. But Media why of all the times did they call this week???

They have had plenty of time to do this earlier!!! I think this is to show that Homeland Security was doing their job when right now they are scrambling to meet deadlines!!!

very suspicious!!!

I did get a email of a person who said there town council meeting was discussing this and had to meet deadlines. So it looks like all cities are scrambling to get stuff in place... that makes sense!!!

[moodforaday]

30. kick, see posts 4 and 23

nt

[VegasWolf]

39. Ghoulani didn't have much control, unlike his later media spin. nt