Pope wants Crucifixes Displayed in Public/Government Bldgs

[katty]

morea t:

http://www.eitb24.com/noticia_en.php?id=82469

Crucifixes in government buildings

"It is important that God is present in public life, with the sign of the cross, in homes and public buildings," the Italian news agency ANSA quoted.

Pope Benedict XVI has backed the display of crucifixes in public buildings, saying that God should be present in public life.

"It is important that God is present in public life, with the sign of the cross, in homes and public buildings," the Italian news agency ANSA quoted the pontiff as saying during his homily in a parish church in Castel Gandolfo, the hill town outside Rome where the Vatican has its vacation retreat.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. Crucifixes are already displayed in public buildings...

...they're called Churches, and that's where they should stay!

[Fire Walk With Me]

2. God should be evident in our "government" but it's not.

[VegasWolf]

44. God and the crucifix are two separate things. The crucifix is a

manifestation of a brand of religiosity. There are many
Gods and many religions, the pope is attempting to advance his
first and foremost. What's new?

[Fire Walk With Me]

47. My point.. The principles of god versus icons

Of course, there being freedom of religion, pentagrams are fair game as well if they make progress on that suggestion.

[VegasWolf]

56. I agree, these fanatics are even pissed about its orientation, why

can't I hang it upside down, it balances better that way, lower
center of gravity and all!! The fanatics were never too good at
physics!!

[Ken Burch]

3. Why stop there?

How about ACTUAL crucifixions in the schools?

It'd certainly improve discipline.

[Fire Walk With Me]

8. I believe that some Pacific Islanders do exactly that, to show their faith

Shouldn't be too hard to get it to happen in the US since there's a precedent.

[Ken Burch]

12. They also have processions of the cross with somebody actually nailed on

in the Philippines, Spain, and Italy, among other places.

[Ilsa]

120. How about those priests & popes named as defendants in lawsuits? eom

[katty]

52. next stop: public self-inflicted floggings

[FlemingsGhost]

4. Crucifix urinal cakes ... I'm gonna make a mint! (n/t)

Flem.

[EST]

13. Uncle Bendy Dick gonna gonna get 'ya for that!

heeheehheeheehe (chortle gasp)

[Up2Late]

30. Oh I got one, we need mini-Jesus strapped into a mini-Electric Chair

Put those up and see if they get the message.:eyes:

[darkism]

5. And here I thought he wouldn't be that bad.

Boy was I wrong. What a nut.

[aquart]

38. How old is he again?

[TankLV]

77. "Hei s NOT A NAZI so stop saying that!"

Thought I'd put that in for all the DU apologists for this scum when they show up.

At least he is no longer publicly.

He was a NAZI during Hitler's reign, tho.

What did you expect from a former NAZI?

[mare]

86. Here we go again with Godwin's law.

I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of that claim. I don't like that man either, and there is a whole bunch of bad and actually TRUE stuff to be said about him. Him being a former Nazi is not one of it. As a teenager he was a member of the Hitler Youth. Unlike lots of other people he didn't even want to be a member, but like every other kid and teenager he just couldn't say no.

Hey, following your logic, every German over the age of ten was a Nazi. Thanks a lot.

[Zhade]

89. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't members of the HY de facto Nazis?

I mean, they WERE technically members of the Nazi Party, yes?

(Not that he should necessarily be held responsible for his limited role as a HY - there are plenty of terrible things Ratzinger did as an adult that actually had more of an impact than that.)

[Kellanved]

98. HY isn't the issue

The Nazi accusation stems from his time as Flakhelfer - military action while still being in school. That was somewhere between the Wehrmacht and the HY.
Neither HY nor the Flakhelfer were volunteers - the HY volunteer program was another matter entirely and Ratzinger wasn't part of it.

If you say that every German aged 10 and above was a Nazi, then - by that standard - Ratzinger was a Nazi. Wherever you place the bar to decide if a kid was a nazi, you'll include many people who most assuredly weren't and aren't Nazis. And many people who were; some who are.

It is tricky ground.

[Zhade]

123. Well, please note my point in parentheses.

I'm just interested in technical accuracy, not condemning the kid he was - the man he became has done far more damage, I think.

[Ediacara]

116. Actually he could say no

Many people did. Of course they met unfortunate ends, but if he was really the anti-Nazi the Vatican biographers are making him out to be, he really should have and could have resisted.

I also find it particularly telling that he claims to have had a finger injury that made him unable to operate the anti-aircraft gun he was assigned to, and that this injury was untreated the entire time he was assigned to the gun. Ya right, what a stupid lie...

He also claims to have deserted after being re-assigned to Hungary where he placed mines. The Vatican biographers claim it's because he saw the death camps, but it's fairly clear he knew what was going on, and deserted because the Nazis were about to lose.

He may have had a change of heart since the war, and if so, good for him! What I strongly dislike and disagree with is the notion that he was somehow an unenthusiastic Nazi, the data is simply not there for such a claim.

On top of that, he seems to have inherited a little bit of the Nazi flair for hate in his numerous publicly available writings as head of the Inquisition.

[Zhade]

88. You did?

I mean, his homophobic bigotry toward GLBT folk like myself - calling a loving relationship between two members of the same sex "an intrinsic evil", for example - pretty much told me how utterly devoid of morality and worthiness this fucknut was.

But at least you're willing to admit to being wrong! There are some diehard Catholic wannabe-victims here who STILL support this fool.

[darkism]

118. Yep. He's that bad. A Nazi, a homophobe AND a pedophile.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4369421

[donco6]

6. Oh that's right.

God isn't present unless that little plastic torture device is hanging there.

:eyes:

[Up2Late]

25. Not JUST torture! It's also a display of a Public Execution device.

Oh Gods or "Non-specific creator of the universe" help us.:eyes:

[reprobate]

45. Ah. that brings the question: which god, whose god.

[SemperEadem]

114. is he talking about in the US or in Italy?

He can hang them to his hearts content in Vatican City, where he still has a say-so... let him rule VC and leave the rest of the world to their judgement.

[madeline_con]

135. Where the hell did I dine?

I couldn't resist. :eyes:

[EST]

7. Whatever happened to "render unto caesar?"

[rodeodance]

15. well, remember that break with the jews?

[EST]

17. You mean the one with the freeps favorite rendering?

With the graphic rendition of unusual rendition?

[Vinca]

9. Where's he want 'em? Next to the Buddhas?? nt

[geek tragedy]

10. Because one just can't find any references to Catholicism and Jesus

in Italy . . .

[Zhade]

90. I like Lewis Black's remarks on that subject...

Jesus - "He's like the Coca-Cola of Italy!"

[Demeter]

11. Pope Can Stick Head in Baptismal Font

and learn to breathe water.

[BootinUp]

14. Someone show me how to get back to the year 2005 n/t

[katty]

55. hey, Get me off this planet!

[sniffa]

16. i agree that god needs to be in pubLic buiLdings

some sort of acknowLedgement to our creator, the fLying spaghetti monster needs to be in every pubLic buiLding.

[reprobate]

42. Please share origins of "flying spaghetti monster". Read about it.....

...on other forum, but don't know where it came from...I assume not Proxima Centauri.

[sniffa]

46. be saved

http://venganza.org/

[Zhade]

91. Oh MAN, that second pic really DID make me 'LOL'!

I'm still grinnin'!

[reprobate]

107. Thank you so much. I now feel vindicated.

I recently had a vision that may change my life. It was just sitting there in my dinner plate, a glorious sight of noodly appendages all twisted in the holy knot of vermaccelli, with two eyes masquarading as meatballs.

I excitedly pointed it out to my family and of course, what responce did I get?

"Did you forget to take your medication again?"

We all know what the true believer has to esperience before the world will see him as enlightened.

Of course, holy visions are not meant to last, and by the time I had finished dinner the vision had dematerialized. But it left me withe the knowledge that I was not alone.

Remember, we are all brothers and sisters in the sauce.

[CatholicEdHead]

18. Bad idea

Keep them out of public places. If you in a private building, then it does not matter.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katty]

54. Ha, best response!

[wakeme2008]

20. this is for Italian public building

and I do not know about their separation of church and state rules.

[ret5hd]

28. so do you think that he believes his god only wants the cross in...

italian public buildings?

or do you think (as i do) that he believes his god wants the crucifix in every countrys public buildings, and his followers are supposed to carry the torch in their respective countries?

[Squatch]

41. The Pope has followers?

Hmmmmm, here, all this time, I thought I was following Jesus Christ and that the Pope was just a priest charged with bringing the word to His faithful.

[CatholicEdHead]

49. The Pope is supposed to be as knowledgeable as

Simon Peter. Dogma goes he was the first Pope and each officeholder after him is supposed to be a theological equal.

[Zhade]

93. Oh, he's got a couple of diehard followers on DU...

They'll excuse ANY hatred out of his mouth.

[CatholicEdHead]

31. It is apparently in Italy's constituion

though Italy does not have a long history of it.

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/177320.htm

"Not my problem. A hard division between Church and State is not yet a familiar concept to Italians, despite its being specifically stated in the country's first republican constitution, promulgated just after WWII. This was the crucial issue behind the referendum, yet it was not understood."

[smirkymonkey]

67. I thought the Italians had one of the smallest church-going

populations in Europe? I'm sure they will wholeheartedly embrace this measure. :sarcasm:

[displacedtexan]

21. Sounds like typical Jerry Falwell crap.

"Pray to my chosen deity, damn it!"

Each Sunday on my blog, I post "Today's Sermon," which is usually about some kind of weird religious guy or group.

Surprisingly, I get a lot of positive emails about those posts.

[daleo]

22. You mean God is a little piece of wood?

Somehow I had expected more.

[Gregorian]

34. Yes. And America is a colored rag.

You've got it all upside down. We have ways of dealing with people like you. See this rack over here? Don't make us use it.

[HockeyMom]

23. Ok. Anybody here Jewish?

I live in an area (NY) that has very large Jewish population. Jesus may be a holy man, a prophet, but I don't know any Jewish person who believes that Jesus was GOD.

To put up crosses or crucifixes in public/government buildings is the endorsement of a PARTICULAR RELIGION. They like to say Judeo/Christian "beliefs", but I think even Jews would have a problem with this one.

Imagine what the OTHER religions would think? It seems to be Pope Benedict should MIND HIS OWN BUSINESS. The old quote, "Render unto Caesar" bit.

[CatholicEdHead]

33. Long history of Church-State working together

when you look at the Vatican. For hundreds of years they controlled Italian politics with the state. They were also in full support of the Spanich Franco rule for much of last century to give two examples.

They are some of the darker parts of the church history.

[deadparrot]

24. As long as it's not a government buiding (in the US, at least), fine.

I may or may not chose to patronize the services located within that building, but that's part of free speech.

Slap it on government property, however, and I'll fight it tooth and nail.

[short bus president]

26. jeez - this would all be a non-issue if they'd just impaled jesus

instead of crucifying him. Then every pencil could satisfy the apparent need of these Christians to have near-constant visual reminders of their savior's suffering. Stupid shortsighted Romans. :eyes:

[Mythsaje]

76. This is just evil...

:rofl:

[ozone_man]

126. LOL!

Inconceivable!

[sendero]

27. I don't care..

... if it rains or freezes, long as I got my plastic Jesus, ridin' on the dashboard of my car.

[Book Lover]

43. Holy crap!

I haven't thought of that song in years and years...

[slay]

110. When first brought aboard Moya

in the first episode of Farscape John Crichton tells the alien D'argo that his ship is a "four cylinder with a plastic Jesus on the dashboard." Typical earthling. :)

[Skittles]

29. I'm sure he does

:puke:

[Gregorian]

32. Crucifix curfew.

Without the crucifix, God would find it difficult to exist?

Yes, anybody found without their crucifix is deemed ungodly. All heretics will be placed in rehabilitation centers, and will be treated with rehabilitation devices. One such device tends to make you taller.

[arcane1]

35. great idea! Displayed right next to the 10 commandments monuments

where we are ordered by God not to display graven images :eyes:

[arwalden]

36. As Long As We're Displaying Execution Devices...

... why not also display hangman's nooses, gas chambers, guillotines, and electric chairs? You know... to remind people to behave... OR ELSE!

[Gregorian]

37. Is this a Blackadder episode that never aired?

Why does this remind me of this episode?... Blackadder is trying to dine with his extreme orthodox relatives while simultaneously having a drinking party next door.


Aunt: `Chair'? You have chairs in your house?

Edmund: Oh, yes.

Aunt: Wicked child!!! Chairs are an invention of Satan!
In our house, Nathaniel sits on a spike!

Edmund: ...and yourself...?

Aunt: I sit on Nathaniel -- two spikes would be an extravagance.

Edmund: Well, quite.

Aunt: I will suffer comfort this once -- we shall just have to stick
forks in our legs between courses. I trust you remember
we eat no meat...?

Edmund: Heaven forbid, no! Here, we feast only on God's
lovely turnip -- mashed.

Aunt: Mashed?!

Edmund: Yes...

Aunt: Wicked child!!! Mashing is also the work of
Beelzebub -- for Satan saw God's blessed turnip, and he envied it
and mashed it to spoil its sacred shape.

[PleadTheFirst]

122. LOL!!!

Thanks for a much needed laugh. :)

[stepnw1f]

39. Keep Your Faith Out of my Life

Proselytize in your own backyard. This is AMERICA, home of many faiths, Mr. Big Shit!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

40. Didn't Jesus say, "My Kingdom is not of this world."?

The pope should worry more about dealing with child molesting priests.

[kestrel91316]

82. I always have thought the kingdom not of this world meant

the kingdom of the spirit, ie the world inside our heads. Religion is a matter for our thoughts, not for us to force dogmatic behavior on others.

[Zhade]

97. Aw, that's not fair - he's spent lots of time dealing with those priests.

I mean, yeah, it was covering up their rape of children, but he did SOMETHING, right?

:sarcasm:

[VegasWolf]

48. The pope should go demonstrate outside Crawford in the heat like the

rest of us. Stand in line guy! No butting in!!

[reprobate]

50. Oh, my. I've just had an epiphany.

I once volunteered to pull the lever at the Hague when the march Mad George up to the gallows for war crimes.


It now seems much more fitting to use an instrument of execution more in line with his professed beliefs.

I therefore do hereby volunteer to be the one to drive the nails into at least his ankles, if someone has already spoken for the wrists.

[VegasWolf]

59. Yes!! Yes!! i see your epiphany!! Can't we do Brain?? Please! nt

[LiberalEsto]

51. Only if we can also display Pentagrams

stars-of-David, the Unitarian flaming chalice and all the many other religious symbols of the world. Is that ok, Mr. Pope?

[katty]

58. Yup, Tarot Cards, Astrological Symbols, et al...Equal Opportunity

[bleedingheart]

53. In honor of this I threw out the donation cards the local Catholic church

sent to me...

no more money...not for them...

[liberaliraqvet26]

57. I did that years ago...

the far right shift of the church is much more evident now

[CountAllVotes]

60. ya better shuddup Ratzi

People are deserting the Catholic Church and you aren't helping any at all with your stupid ass remarks Ratzi!

:kick:

[sakabatou]

61. You can can have God in the home w/o the cross

It's called other monotheistic religions, jerk!

[kestrel91316]

83. Silly sakabatou, those aren't "real" religions!

[sakabatou]

96. But, but... momma said...

:cry:

[kestrel91316]

108. Why does your momma hate America???

[Gregorian]

62. Hey, is anybody going to feed these starving children, over here?!

We don't give a Ratz ass about the cross. I just got a buzz on my pager from Jesus, and he said the cross can wait until these kids are fed.

[regnaD kciN]

63. Fair enough...

...as long as he allows us to post the First Amendment in a prominent spot in every Roman Catholic church and schoolroom in America!

Maybe include some selected quotes from Thomas Paine, too...

:grr:

[malaise]

64. Damn we're heading for

corporate feudalism with young Hitler at the helm. What the fugg is going on on this planet? May he and the other fascists burn in their own version of hell.

[DanCa]

65. It is more important to carry god within your heart

Let me tell you about the first thing about sin those who smelt it dealt it. Seriously I have a crussifix around my neck but I wear it "tucked under my shirt", why? It's bad manners to call someone else into your religion. The same reason when i say grace in public, quietly to myself with my hands under the table so i can respect other peoples privacy. There is no reason why you cant follow your beliefs with out someone jamming it down your throat.

If Pope Benedict insist on making a public spetacle of himself might I suggest that he take a job at sears optical store. You really shouldn't push religion people. Because the harder you push the more theyll push back.

[Gary Boatwright]

66. What?

Who elected the pope god's rep on earth?

[DanCa]

68. Welcome to DU Gary Boatwright

:hi:

[Gary Boatwright]

92. Thanks DanCa, nice to meet you!

eom

[CatholicEdHead]

75. Technically the "Princes of the Church"

aka College of Cardnials

[Gary Boatwright]

95. Then who elected the cardinals?

They can all chew on my short and curly!

[kestrel91316]

84. He ain't rep on MY part of earth. Go suck an egg, Ratzi.

[anotherdrew]

69. this pope can kiss my ass

[Gregorian]

70. Free Jesus Fries with every half pounder.

[TankLV]

78. You mean "freedom fries"? Did they change the name - again?

Damn! I must've missed that memo too!

[NuttyFluffers]

129. They are now Liberty through Christ Crisps

:evilgrin:

or for the unwashed masses "Jesus brand Freedom Fries". Now mixed with Jesus fish tater tots! :+

[MetaTrope]

71. This falls in the "Does the Pope shit in the woods?" category

I mean, what does anyone expect him to say? It's his job to promote the thing, after all...

[Rich Hunt]

72. not only that...

...but he said "sign of the cross". That could mean anything - it could be metaphorical. Plus, I love how people are soooo charitable toward unfamiliar news sources when it suits their prejudices.

That's a few more piles I'm sitting on....

[onehandle]

73. As a Catholic, I say...

How 15th century of you, Holy Father.

[hedgehog]

74. How functional is Benedict? He really hasn't done anything all summer.

He seems to be stuck in nostalgia for something that never was. Did the right wingers stick us with a figurehead that would allow them to keep things going as usual?

[goforit]

79. Why not place them in temples as well...WTF???

[WinkyDink]

80. That's plain ignorant

Let's make a public employees WEAR a Crucifix.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

81. Didn't read the responses but what do you expect from a Nazi child

To all those RC defenders he was in the NAZI youth movement and did as much as the buried Pope for the people of Poland, Germany, etc. (yes, I know, he quit, yea, right). Take a look at what most of the Germans say about him, and yes, the RC's are the most vocal.

Yea,I have German ancestry (which I am most embarrassed about), but, I didn't particularly like the old Pope and this one is getting close to Fascism, his time will be short lived.

[AuntiBush]

85. How About Those Desecrated Dead Soldiers Crosses in Texas?

[Zhade]

87. Fuck you, Ratzinger.

Seriously, fuck you - you're the Pope, not our grand exalted leader.

Be Catholic, whatever, but don't even THINK about imposing your beliefs on THIS atheist.

Fucking asshole.

EDIT: It appears he is referring to Italian buildings. Still, he's a fucking bigoted asshole anyway,

[dchill]

94. Good for Him!

It's about time Joey Ratz gets off his wishy-washy ass and does something that will unite the world! I'm sure EVERYONE will agree with this inspired yet harmless idea.

(/sarcasm - for the satirically challenged)

[Bridget Burke]

99. The previous Pope had the same opinion.

From the article: Benedict's predecessor, John Paul II, stepped into the debate over crucifixes in public schools in 2003 when he told European officials that the removal of religious symbols dear to a society can lead to instability and even conflict in Europe's multiethnic societies.

Of course, Benedict lacks John Paul II's charisma.

It's quite possible to disagree with (or ignore) his statements. But many enjoy any opportunity to expose their festering hatred for Catholics--which they learned as children.

[DoYouEverWonder]

100. Since the new pope loves crosses so much

someone needs to send his these pics from Crawford of what 'Christians' do to crosses in this country. Maybe he'll condemn this freaks soul to eternal hell.




Photo by TexasLady

[Roland99]

101. And the Pope has exactly what authority in ITALY?

[JNelson6563]

102. "God"? or "graven images"?

I thought "god" was everywhere. Now we need to buy lots of crucifixes to enable this omnipotent being to be everywhere?

Oy.

Julie

[iamjoy]

133. Something I Don't Get

Now, I am not a religious person, but Exodus 20:4 plainly states:

Thou shalt not make onto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

I am not a biblical scholar, or a scholar of middle English, but it seems to me this passage clearly forbids putting up crucifixes meant to represent Jesus. So, how can any person claiming to be religious wish to build and display graven images?

[cap]

103. wont our public buildings get a little cluttered???

10 commandments here, a crucifix there, a buddha yonder, a Shiva over that a way, never mind what the Muslims, Wiccans, Sikhs, etc want to put up. ALL AT PUBLIC EXPENSE!

[leesa]

104. This guy is such a dweeb. I'm glad he's old for the sake of the Catholics

[Algorem]

105. Crucifix suggestions for Pope:1.Sit on,2.Rotate.

[ticapnews]

106. I wonder how the Pope feels about the crosses in Crawford...

Too bad no one will ever ask him, nor would he ever comment, about this desecration of holy symbols - which were certainly displayed in public as the Pope would want...

[slay]

109. Sinead O'Conner was right

when she tore up the pope's pic on SNL. Even though it was a different guy at the time, a cult leader is a cult leader and that's exactly what the pope is.

[dkofos]

111. I want pictures of child molesting priests on the post office walls

[SemperEadem]

112. someone needs to tell the stupid pope

God lives in one's heart, not in an idol hung on a wall.

[bribri16]

113. After what just happened at camp Casey, should be no problem in

tearing them down once they are put up.

[genieroze]

115. What a screwball.

[0007]

117. My My this Pope guy is as strange, or as stupid, as our little

dictator.

Expect junior to have all U.S. military uniforms and equipment to exhibit crucifixes. Even NASA space programs must apply and also NASCARS and the drivers.

I can see it now!

[Joseph Christ]

125. Well lets keep one thing in mind...

...this guy is the Pope. Its his JOB to bring religion, his religion, to the entire world.

*'s job is to respect our laws and the seperation of Church and State.

Thats the big difference here. It doesn't surprise me one bit that the Pope would want this...HE's THE POPE! lol.

[bemildred]

128. Definitely not the sharpest blade in the drawer.

Right out of the box, too.
Might be why he's in there, no threat to anybody important.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

119. To paraphrase Bill Hicks

When Jesus comes back, do you really think he's gonna want to see a &*%#ing cross? That's like meeting Jackie Kennedy wearing a rifle pendant.

[Generator]

121. Of course he does

He also wants to tell everyone how to live and if they don't they get to burn in hell forever. The dude is a control freak!

[pfitz59]

124. Human sacrifice and ritual cannibalism....

What a religion!

[buddysmellgood]

127. I hope he likes the Wiccan display as well. All gods had better be welcome

[Emillereid]

130. Does it occur to this idiot that some of us don't believe in god and/or

don't believe in his god and don't want symbols of this superstition in our public space.

[madeline_con]

136. Then you'll go straight to hell!

Just ask him if you don't believe it.

Like we CARE what the friggin pope thinks! He needs to get a clue.

[GoBlue]

131. So now God is a cross?

Sounds more like Benny Hill.

[neuvocat]

132. As long as he has the hammer and sickle in the vatican

then its all ti-for-tat.

[madeline_con]

134. Like every bedroom in Italy doesn't have one.

:eyes: