Passenger Plane Crashes in Venezuela With 152 Passengers Aboard, Official

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB197T3GCE.html

Passenger Plane Crashes in Venezuela With 152 Passengers Aboard, Official Says

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - A passenger plane crashed in remote western Venezuela with 152 passengers aboard early Tuesday, an aviation official said. It was unclear whether anyone survived.

The West Caribbean Airways plane was headed from Panama to Martinique before dawn when its pilot reported engine trouble to the Caracas airport, said Francisco Paz, president of the National Aviation Institute.

Airport authorities lost radio contact with the plane later in the area of Machiques, in the western state of Zulia, he said.

"Residents in the area said they heard an explosion," Paz said. "Air rescue teams are traveling to the area right now by air and by land."



Airliner feared lost over Venezuela -authorities

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N16564685.htm

CARACAS, Venezuela, Aug 16 (Reuters) - Venezuelan authorities said on Tuesday they had started searching for a passenger plane traveling from Panama that lost contact with air traffic control.

Col. Antonio Rivero told local television that the authorities had lost contact with the aircraft around 4 a.m. local time and that there had been reports of an explosion in the remote area near the Colombian border. It was not clear how many people were on the aircraft or which airline it belonged to.

[rfkrfk]

1. safe to fly again

Toronto,
Greece,
Ven.

[Scurrilous]

2. Yep...

..they come in threes.

[KDLarsen]

3. At least the Toronto crash had no fatalities..

[Art_from_Ark]

4. There was an engine that exploded on a Japan Airlines flight the other day

The DC 10-40 left Fukuoka bound for Honolulu on the 12th (ironically, the 20th anniversary of JAL's-- and the world's-- worst single-plane disaster) when the left No.1 engine exploded just after takeoff. Fortunately, the plane was able to return safely to the Fukuoka airport.

http://www.asahi.com/national/update/0812/SEB200508120007.html

[northzax]

5. 152 people were onboard the official?

really?

sheesh, remind me to take the train, what a mess this week.

[cthrumatrix]

6. Breaking - Jet With 152 passngers crashes in Venezuela (MSNBC Headline)

http://www.msnbc.com

[KDLarsen]

7. Damn, not again!

EDIT: And as usual, my usual aviation news/rumors/gossip site is down :(

EDIT 2: And now my other (but usually slower) aviation news site is alsoing buckling from the pressure :/

[KDLarsen]

11. From AP: (Has Airline & routing)

URGENT
Passenger plane crashes in Venezuela with 152 passengers
aboard, official says

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - A passenger plane crashed in
remote western Venezuela with 152 passengers aboard early
Tuesday, an aviation official said. It was unclear whether
anyone survived.
The West Caribbean Airways plane was headed from Panama to
Martinique when its pilot reported engine trouble to the
Caracas airport, said Francisco Paz, president of the
National Aviation Institute. Airport authorities lost radio
contact with the plane later in the area of Machiques, in
the western state of Zulia, he said.


161147 aug 05GMT

[mom cat]

8. Keep us posted...thanks.

[qanda]

9. Oh no!

Terrible news

[jus_the_facts]

10. This report will be updated as information becomes available

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 7:43 a.m. ET Aug. 16, 2005
CARACAS, Venezuela - A commercial jet with 152 passengers aboard has crashed in western Venezuela, an aviation official said Tuesday.

Col. Antonio Rivero told local television that the authorities had lost contact with the aircraft around 4 a.m. local time and that there had been reports of an explosion in a remote area near the Colombian border.

Venezuelan authorities said they had started searching for the plane, which was traveling from Panama.

This report will be updated as information becomes available.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8969749/

[shadowknows69]

12. they didn't fly over Paraguay did they?

awful news. I vote we go back to steam powered boats for our primary mode of transport. sure it would impede the speed of world commerce but where has that really gotten us anyway?

[KDLarsen]

13. Here's what I've gathered so far

An Md-82 from West Carribean Airlines crashed enroute from Panama to Martinique, most likely due to a double engine failure. Apparently, when the first engine failed, the pilot requested permission to enter Venezuelan airspace and land at Maracaibo airport, and during this, the second engine also failed.

Picture of the aircraft involved: http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=00417078

I'm getting a lot of Spanish news bits, but no links as of yet.

[Jacobin]

14. The odds against both engines of a jet failing at the same time

are stupendously high.

I'm wondering if he ran out of fuel.

/armchair speculation off.

[KDLarsen]

16. Agreed

Who knows, maybe they did a Air Transat stunt (faulty fuel pump caused an A330 to run dry enroute from Canada to Portugal, had to divert to the Azores) - but the odds for 2 engines to fail on the same aircraft are just incredbly small. Perhaps it's time to play the lottery?

[DemoTex]

22. Odds in the range of 10 to the minus 12th.

However, fuel contamination, fuel system problems, fuel starvation (empty tanks), and volcanic ash can certainly up those odds. Any active volcanos in that area? A few years back a Boeing 747 lost all four engines due to volcanic ash. Fortunately, they were able to relight some of the engines at a lower altitude.

[Turbineguy]

15. Northwest says

a strike by mechanics will have no impact on schedule as the work will be outsourced.

This crash seems to be mechanical related. The Cyprus crash was.

With fuel prices pushing margins I wonder if maintenance will become an issue.

[nookiemonster]

19. And therein lies the rub.

A&P (Airframe and Powerplant) licenses are expensive as hell to get. I'm speculating, but isn't that only a FAA requirement? Is there some type of international license that compares to this?

[Brundle_Fly]

21. Fuel Prices

in Venezuela are some of the cheapest in the world.

[Fleshdancer]

17. Damn. news is saying all are dead.

My heart goes out to the families and loved ones of the victims.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. 160 believed dead in Venezuela (Fuck! ANOTHER?) jet crash

160 believed dead in Venezuela jet crash
Pilot had reported engine trouble aboard MD-82
Tuesday, August 16, 2005; Posted: 10:33 a.m. EDT (14:33 GMT)

BOGOTA, Colombia (CNN) -- A Colombian airliner carrying 160 people crashed Tuesday in a remote area of western Venezuela, aviation officials said.

No survivors have been found.

A spokeswoman for West Caribbean Airways, based in Medellin, Colombia, told CNN there were 152 passengers and eight crew members on board, making it the deadliest plane crash in Venezuela's history.

The MD-82 aircraft left Tocumen International Airport south of Panama City around 1 a.m. local time, headed for Fort de France, Martinique, according to Panamanian aviation officials.

Most of the passengers were from Martinique, according to civil aeronautics officials in Colombia, and the crew was Colombian.

The flight had been chartered by tourists in Martinique, a French possession in the Caribbean. (more at link)

[Algorem]

20. The day after Chavez threatens to cut off oil sales to U.S.?Huh.

[malaise]

28. The aircraft had nothing to do with Venezuela

This was a Columbian charter company flying between Panama and Martinique.
Engine problems developed over Venezuela. Poor passengers and drew - what a way to die. I never fly on low budget aircraft. Since deregulation, it's hard enough to assume that regular companies have decent maintenance standards let alone these low budget charter companies.

[Swede]

23. Another airline tragedy.

It seemed like there were none for so long,now it's happening again. Maybe the planes are getting too old?

[Judi Lynn]

24. Update: Colombian Jet Crashes in Venezuela, Killing 160

Colombian Jet Crashes in Venezuela, Killing 160 (Update7)
Aug. 16 (Bloomberg) -- A Colombian airliner carrying French tourists crashed early this morning in a mountainous region in western Venezuela, killing all 160 people on board.

The Medellin, Colombia-based West Caribbean Airways SA jet was en route to Martinique from Panama when it came down in the Sierra de Perija on the Venezuelan-Colombian border, according to Venezuela's civil aviation agency The plane, a charter flight, was carrying 152 passengers, all French nationals, and eight crew members, a French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman said.

``We are trying to recover the bodies, and the black box,'' Antonio Rivero, who heads Venezuela's civil defense agency, said at a press conference, according to El Nacional's Web site. ``In the disaster zone, there is a lot of smoke. There are no survivors.''

The crash is the second this year for West Caribbean Airways, according to Colombia's Caracol Radio. On March 26, a West Caribbean airplane, en route to Providencia island and San Andres island, crashed, killing six passengers and two crew members, according to Caracol's Web site. Four passengers were injured, Caracol said.
(snip/...)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=a1fBsB_uuIBo&refer=germany

[Mister Mark]

25. tragic

But just to offer a different point of view:

Approximately 100 people die in car crashes EVERY DAY in the U.S. That's about 40,000 per year.

[tom_paine]

26. You are correct, Mister Mark. What a shame we no longer live in a Free

Nation, which is in and of itself provides a strong moderate base, a healthy, vigorus investigative apparatus, and a trustworthy (well, at least artially) media that could be counted on to expose wrongdoing at least once in a blue moon.

But we have none of those things. Like the Soviets, we now KNOW that the Imperials can do anything, can get away with virtually anything, and NOTHING will EVER be done and the laughbly Soviet-like media will NEVER uncover it or even report it mre than once in some obscure place.

Modern media research: "I called their office and they say they didn't do it."

Bushevik Editor: "Run with it. The word fo the Emperor is as good as gold. No need to dig further. Get a couple more quotes to round out the story and print it."

In such a climate, it is natural to speculate in such way, because we all know there is nothing to stop it and we have ALL seen much more obvious crimes go unreported, uninvestigated, and unknown.

You may make your point, Mister Mark, and it would have been true back when Ameica was free, but we are forced to speculate wildly like Soviet Citizens, circa 1977, because from a media and governmental perspective, after stripping the lying but necessary window-dresing of "Bushevik Freedom", that is EXACTLY where we live.

You may scoff at wild speculations such as these, but what else do we Imperial Subjects of Amerika have left open to us?

It is sad, because you are both absolutely right and terribly wrong at the same time. But the wrongness is not yours. It belongs to each and every one of us who allowed Free America to be broken so easily (like a plastic swizzle stick) in the hands of the Amerikan Caesars.

I would also like to point out, in Slave Nations like Amerika, Soviet Russia, Imperial Rome, or Nazi Germany, the perentage of "wild conspiracy theories" that turn out to be true increases exponentially.

Yes, the Soviets DID have a Gulag Archipelago, despite their repeated denials. So did the Nazis.

Yes, Caligula lied when he said he burnt all the Secret Police Records at the beginning of his Bushian Reign.

And so forth.

So, you cannot blame people in such nations to speculate in such ways as we last few Free Americans do, trapped as we are behind the Televised Curtain of Lies which IS Amerika, now.

You are both right and wrong, Mister Mark. We shall never know if this was a Mafia-style "message" from the most mafia-like ruler America has ever had.

[Mister Mark]

44. ?

I don't understand your response at all. Sorry.

[tom_paine]

45. To put it more basically

Yoru point is absolutely correct, but for Free Nations only.

For Totalitarian Nations without a System of Checks and Balances, a Free, Vigorous and Independant Press, the frequency of 'conspiracy theories' being true is much higher.

And THAT is Imperial Amerika. The latter and not the former. When America was free, we laughed at 'conspiracy theorists' knowing that more often than not, they WERE wrong. And we were correct to do so.

Because Free Nations are Moderate Nations. Free Nations have the 'natural defenses' to police themselves.

But in Totalitarian Nations, which is what Imperial Amerika is at it's highest levels now, such defenses are absent. In nations such as where we live, 'conspiracy theories' are much more often true because Rulers recognize this lack of defense as an opportunity for enrichment and power.

Thus my point: You cannot abuse 'conspiracy theorists' as you once might have when America was free because in Totalitarian Climates, THEY ARE the ones speaking truth the most often.

Look up Samizdat, if you want to understand further:

http://www.slis.ualberta.ca/issues/sbalazs/history.htm

UNDERSTAND, because if America is EVER to be free again, we must UNDERSTAND what and where we live.

One more thing: Just because I believe that a higher percentage of 'conspiracy theories' are true in Totalitarian Nations, does NOT mean I believe they ALL are true.

Just cut people some slack on it, because it's not like we have a Free Press to confirm or deny anything anymore.

[Judi Lynn]

27. More on the passengers...

Plane carrying some 160 vacationers crashes in Venezuela

All aboard feared dead
By Ian James
ASSOCIATED PRESS

9:14 a.m. August 16, 2005
Associated Press
Employees of a crisis center set up the crash in Venezuela, answer calls from citizens inquiring about their loved ones at the foreign ministry in Paris.
CARACAS, Venezuela – A plane carrying some 160 people, mostly vacationers from the French Caribbean island of Martinique, crashed Tuesday in western Venezuela after reporting engine trouble and all aboard were feared dead, authorities said.
(snip)

The French civil aviation authority said all 153 passengers aboard were French citizens from Martinique, and that all died in the crash.

The airline, in a statement from Colombia, said 152 passengers, including an infant, and eight Colombian crew members were on the plane. The discrepancy in the number of passengers could not immediately be resolved.

Officials in Martinique said the vacationers included groups of civil servants and their families who had chartered the flight for a one-week trip to Panama.
(snip/...)

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20050816-0914-venezuela-planecrash.html

[Siena]

29. All 160 believed dead in Venezuela plane crash

CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - A Colombian jet traveling from Panama to Martinique crashed in Venezuela on Tuesday after its engines failed, and authorities believed all 160 passengers and crew died in one of the country's worst air disasters.

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-08-16T152415Z_01_KNE644174_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-CRASH-VENEZUELA-C-COL.XML

[karlrschneider]

30. ...

:-(

[Syncronaut Seven]

31. Engine(s) Plural?

Bad fuel? Could rising fuel prices be tempting airlines to use contaminated fuel?

[murray hill farm]

32. that was my first thought...

i just heard recently that airports are having a difficult time getting adequate amounts of fuel for the planes...and so..i would imagine, that planes are given just enough fuel..no extra..and may be cutting it short if landing is delayed..or for whatever reason, they must stay in the air longer than anticipated.

[karlrschneider]

34. They can't -legally- do that

however...
??

[Siena]

35. That is reprehensible.

I think anyone would be willing to pay more money to assure that there is enough fuel for the trip.

[murray hill farm]

37. is wasnt a matter of cost of fuel...

is was a matter of shortage of fuel.

[Siena]

39. so then less flights.

the point is, if given all the facts, who would still fly in a plane that was unsafe?

[murray hill farm]

40. Absolutely!

But, if even one flight is cancelled...that is major money lost for the airline...and they are barely holding on these days..so, i imagine that the temptation to limit each plane to fuel it will need to get from point A to point B is a strong temptation. They do that anyway...not all planes are full of fuel if it is not needed to reach their destination...i would think that it is a possibility with fuel shortages that airlines would be more likely to just cut that back a little...that extra fuel for each flight...to keep things running smoothly. Course, as i said, it was just a thought that came to me...i really know nothing about if this is really happening.

[Siena]

41. Unfortunately,

I have a feeling you may be right. I don't know how people can wake up and look at themselves in the mirror.

[DemoTex]

36. Volcanic ash?

Any active volcanoes in the area? Volcanic ash can cause multiple, simultaneous engine failures on high flying jet transport aircraft.

[karlrschneider]

43. Only active volcano I can find is in Mexico...pretty far away

http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/current_volcs/current.html

[cliss]

33. Wow. My condolences to their families.

There have been A LOT of airplane crashes lately. Anybody have any ideas?

[parkia00]

38. Some say it comes in three's

Some say bad air crashes come in sets of three's. So this makes the third one. The ATR Turbo prop from Morocco (I think), the Helios 737 in Greece and this one. The Air France crash in Toronto doesn't count cause there was no loss of life. Hopefully that's the last.

[caligirl]

42. Thats TWO. Happens in threes.