Governor General 'smeared' in row over her loyalty

[emad]

Canada's new Governor General, who holds dual French nationality, has been accused of divided loyalties and her husband of having ties to French-speaking separatists in a bitter row that has exposed the country's historical fault line.


Michaelle Jean is the first black woman to hold the post

Haitian-born Michaelle Jean, a broadcast journalist, was appointed by the Queen as her representative in Canada on the recommendation of the government, led by the prime minister Paul Martin. She is due to be sworn in next month, the first time that a black woman has held the post.

But the decision has dredged up the ghosts of Canada's troubled past, in particular the sometimes bloody campaign by French-speaking separatists for an independent Quebec.

The nationwide political fracas has been fuelled in part by the revelation that Ms Jean holds dual French nationality through her husband, a documentary maker called Jean-Daniel Lafond.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/16/wcan16.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/08/16/ixworld.html

[TahitiNut]

1. Wow! That's a stunningly beautiful face and smile!

It almost makes me want to be a Canuck ... except I can't tolerate cold weather. (brrrr)

[Spazito]

59. I agree, she is stunning in appearance and in her 'portfolio'

she will be a wonderful representative for Canada, imo.

[TahitiNut]

60. She reminds me of a DUer I know.

:evilgrin:

[geek tragedy]

2. Why does Canada still have the Queen Mum appointing its officials?

Time to move out of the parents' basement . . .

[Bassic]

3. Amen to that. And the whole province of Québec stands with you on that.

But I don't think we are anywhere close to abolishing the monarchy yet. On day maybe... one can hope.

[geek tragedy]

8. Maybe you should swear allegiance to Louis Quatorze.

;)

[Bassic]

20. Eww..

collective necrophilia.

Monarchy needs to go.

[geek tragedy]

23. Collective necrophilia . . .

sounds like the Terri Schiavo affair.

[Frederik]

47. Tabarnac

Il est temps que vous vous débarrassiez de cette putain anglaise.

[Maple]

48. We started with a French monarchy mon ami

King Francis I in 1534, so you ought to be delighted the new GG also has French citizenship.

[Bassic]

64. French or English, it doesen't matter

It's simply got to go.

[iverglas]

71. d'ya think?

Somehow, I don't quite see the necessity or wisdom of calling one's neighbour's head of state, a fairly inoffensive woman past middle age who has never engaged in trading sexual services for cash, or done much of anything to deserve such language, a "whore".

Misogynist and jingoistic ... chauvinist in so many ways ... I'd say.

Hardly progressive, and hardly acceptable in progressive spaces, no matter what language it's typed in.

[Spazito]

5. Canadians disagree with you and it is our choice, right?

After all, celebrities have taken the place of royalty in the US, maybe it is time for 'some' Americans to stop looking to Hollywood for their 'royalty'.

[geek tragedy]

7. I agree about the silly fixation with celebrities.

However, we don't allow a foreign head of state to appoint governmental officials.

[Spazito]

10. LOL you miss the point, Prime Minister appoints the Governor General

hardly a foreign head of state. She is appointed by the PM to serve as the Queen's representative as per our country's system. I do find it interesting that 'some' feel it is fine to smear another country's choices in governance but not when that criticism involves another country that those same 'some' feel an allegiance to as witnessed on other forums found on DU.

Each to their own, I guess.

Edited to add an article about the new GG so as to address the actual issue in the OP:

Jean called 'inspired choice' for governor general

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/08/03/gg050803.html

[geek tragedy]

12. Wait--does the Queen of England appoint her or does the Canadian PM?

My understanding is that the PM 'advises' the Queen on whom to pick, but that formally the English monarch picks the GG as the formal head of state in Canada.

I just find it ironic that Canadians are sensitive to the "51st state" label (and rightly so) but have no problem maintaining vestiges of its colonial past.

Canada is sooooooo much smarter than the US on other issues. I just don't get why they still deal with this monarchy and colonial b.s.

[Maple]

13. Canada is a peaceful stable country

so this mechanism has worked well for us. That is why we keep the system.

The Queen is the head of state for many independent countries, not just Canada. We are also members of the Commonwealth, an international cooperative venture that has also done well.

The privy council and PM pick the GG, and advise the Queen of their choice. She signs off on it.

We don't want a republic and a president because then before you know it, we'd BE a 51st state.

[geek tragedy]

15. Good point--hard to argue with results.

I just despise the idea of royalty and colonialism.

[Maple]

22. I've never understood

why some Americans praise Canada, sometimes effusively which embarrasses us, :blush: for being peaceful, stable, and involved with the world in a constructive way, and yet criticize the very system that makes us so.

We aren't a 'colony', we aren't a 'dominion' anymore either, but an independent country, and we did it without a revolution or bloodshed.

Our PM has to answer to criticism and questions every day in the House of Commons, and the govt can be brought down if need be...even a majority govt can be pushed into calling an election.

And we've managed to keep French and English working together for 138 years...something difficult to do even in Europe, plus we've added people from all over the world.

The system has it's faults...what system doesn't? But overall, it's worked well.

[geek tragedy]

24. Canadians are responsible for their country's great achievements, not

the English monarchy.

The US's founding value was a principled hostility towards the rule of monarchs, so it's hard for us to understand why folks in the 21st Century still bother with kings and queens.

[Maple]

27. We couldn't have done it

without that system in place...it allowed us the freedom and the stability to move forward in time and the world in a calm rational planned way.

You didn't have a revolution just because of a 'principled hostility' towards monarchs. That would be a silly thing to shed blood over.

I have a principled hostility towards a lot of things, but I wouldn't go to war over it. There are many other ways to solve problems without getting people killed.

Some Americans seem to have a long outdated view of a monarchy. We are no longer in the 'off with their heads' era. The Queen doesn't give orders, nor is she curtsied to. It is an administrative hierarchy position, involving paperwork, tradition and PR.

[geek tragedy]

29. "You didn't have a revolution just because of a 'principled hostility'

towards monarchs. That would be a silly thing to shed blood over."

The US constitution was carefully crafted to avoid giving the Executive branch anything resembling the authority of a king. The term "royalist" is used as an insult when directed at people like Nixon and W. Bush.

[Maple]

33. Well Bush has it nonetheless

and as far as I can tell, your constitution is no longer in effect.

George III of England was in the 1700's...there is no such 'authority' any more.

[demobrit]

36. President or Governor General

You might have been much happier with a History like Canada`s under British rule then later as a dominion , parliamentary system and all,
not a dictatorship in sight.
oh and by the way as an ex British colony you could always apply to join the British commonwealth of nations.

[geek tragedy]

38. And you could always apply to be admitted as the 51st state.

I suspect Tony Blair has considered it.

:P :smoke:

[Maple]

39. Never !

and Tony Blair wants to be seen as another Churchill, not a governor. :rofl:

[geek tragedy]

40. Aren't you Canadian?

I was replying to one of our British brethren.

Blair is Bush's poodle--hardly Churchillian.

[Maple]

41. Yes indeed

I am...with a British queen, who is actually German, married to a Greek and living in England.

Canada has always been very multicultural. :7

[Darth_Kitten]

49. Some may say she's not even the rightful monarch

Nothing against her as a person and Queen, but hell, in order to put her ancestors on the throne they had to jump over a great many catholics with a far greater claim to the throne. :(

I'm a closet jacobite. :D

[enigma000]

50. Jacobite?

Does that make you of Scottish ancestry?

An old friend of mine had a good line: "Scottish? Why that's bearly human?" :)

[Darth_Kitten]

54. No, I don't think so.

Not any scottish that I know of, I'm just sympathetic to the jacobites. :)

Besides the thought of Queen Camilla, etc, just doesn't sit very well with me. :( I don't think Prince William or Prince Henry are that great either. :evilgrin:

[demobrit]

42. Blair another Churchill

Well I believe Churchill had dual nationality from his mothers side , Tony may have a claim by a very distant cousin.

[Maple]

44. I meant he wants to be seen

as another Churchill politically and historically...war and the 'we shall fight them on the beaches' kind of thing.

I'm always surprised he doesn't clutch his lapels when he's speaking.

[davidinalameda]

58. wasn't his mother American

[demobrit]

63. yes she was

[demobrit]

43. Blair for president

30 million Brits would vote for Blair if we were admittedas the 51st state?

[TankLV]

69. Umm - they don't need to apply - they already are.

Comes automatically when a former colony chooses independence - unless they choose NOT to.

[Spazito]

14. The fact is, the P.M. appoints in reality, it is simply tradition for

the Queen to approve. NO GG 'recommendation' has been turned down by the Queen. It is tradition, one which Canadians don't have a problem with.

"Prime Minister Paul Martin announced today that, on his recommendation, Her Majesty the Queen is pleased to approve the appointment of Ms. Michaëlle Jean as the 27th Governor General of Canada. Ms. Jean will serve in succession to the Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson."


Canada identifies more with European, including British, mores, traditions and loyalties than those of the United States hence the Parliamentary system of governance rather than the republic governance system adopted by the U.S. Our wars, historically, have been between the French and the British or Americans and the British as opposed to the U.S. where it began by fighting the British.

[geek tragedy]

16. I guess I don't see why a Parliamentary system necessarily implies

the involvement of the British crown.

But, as someone else noted, it works for Canada. It's just something I'll never understand or agree with.

[Spazito]

17. Agree, your system works for you

ours for us. Differences are to be celebrated for sure.

[geek tragedy]

18. Well, our system has worked for us in the past. Hopefully it will work

again starting in 2006.

[Spazito]

19. You have my heart-felt hopes for that as well!

Up until GW, I had always admired the US system and love your Constitution and see it as an incredible far-seeing document. I believe Americans will take back their country and their Constitution soon.

[geek tragedy]

21. From your keyboard to the Intelligent Designer's ear. eom

[SemperEadem]

25. because you're an american and that mindset has been

drummed into your head since kindergarten.

If Canada wanted to throw off the monarchy, they would have done so by now. The system works for them, their country is at peace.

Quiet as it's kept, there are quite a few in this country who want a return to the monarchy system, with titles and entitlements.

Case in point: WE network has a new reality show called "American Princess" where they are going to actually bestow a "title" on some stupid tart---the fact that there isn't a hue and cry going on for anything promoting a monarchial system in this country is amazing. That absence of such tells me that we're not that far removed from wanting a king/queen to rule this country.

[geek tragedy]

26. What's the WE network?

If anyone were ever to attempt to install a monarchy here, I'd become a big fan of the Second Amendment. I suspect I'd have plenty of company.

[Maple]

28. I suspect

you have a king...you just don't call him that. And I don't just mean Bush either, but every president you've ever had :D

[geek tragedy]

30. The US constitution severely limits the power of the President so that

he can't act as a king.

The power to declare war, the power to raise and spend money, the power to establish courts are all reserved to the Congress.

[Maple]

32. And how well is that working out for you?

The president is commander in chief...and if he attacks another country, orders a nuke strike, or appoints a flake to the courts how exactly are you able to stop him?

Kings can't act like that...there is no more off with their heads routine.

If Elizabeth ordered anything like that, no one would move.

Congress and the Senate will rubberstamp Bush.

[geek tragedy]

35. Our system is broken . . . not disputing that. eom

[SemperEadem]

56. you don't get cable?

[geek tragedy]

65. Yeah, I have about 200 channels--don't know all of them. eom

[iverglas]

70. wait -- have you considered getting a clue?

Wait--does the Queen of England appoint her or does the Canadian PM?

Under the 1982 Constitution of Canada, written by Canadians, the Queen is the Queen of Canada.

It's a sign of some juvenile disorder that some of you people down there still think you're rebelling against the big daddy, and want to get all the other kids in the neighbourhood on your side so you can go smoke behind the garage or some damned thing.

Nobody has yet perfected government. If you actually think your rich white guys did it when they decided they didn't want to pay taxes, you haven't been paying attention for a long time.

We elect our governments and they govern. They are not subject to the veto of some jumped up little frat boy -- or of anyone else.

If the Queen declined to appoint a Governor General recommended by the Prime Minister of Canada, or do the equivalent in respect of any other member of the Commonwealth that maintains the figurehead monarchy, Texas would freeze over. And if a Governor General attempted to play any role in government apart from autographing legislation when it's put in front of her, the mob would storm Rideau Hall.

No society on earth has yet figured out how to organize a process / person who will be the ultimate authority for disputes that cannot otherwise be resolved. In a constitutional democracy, the courts have the final word on the constitutionality of government action -- but a government could ignore the courts. The executive branch and/or legislative branch controls the military and police -- but they could refuse to follow orders. Law and tradition tell a government when to cede power through elections -- but a government could refuse to hold elections.

A head of state of the kind Canada has -- non-partisan and non-involved -- provides a theoretical locus for ultimate power, while making it impossible for that power to be exercised in practice, and placing actual responsibility for the functioning of the society squarely on the elected legislators ... and ultimately, of course, the people who elect them.

The Cdn head of state cannot order the invasion of small foreign countries, has not an iota of power to affect the legislative process, has no control over the legislative agenda. S/he symbolizes the authority of the state, while at the same time making it plain to everyone that the authority of the state really rests with the people.

Until the residual need, which apparently still exists even in mature democracies, for a touchstone for that authority withers and dies, we'll all have some residual authority figure to represent it. The fact is that in Canada, the head of state is no more than symbolic of the authority of the people, and has no legitimacy as a locus of actual power, and both she and we know it, and we stay out of each other's faces, and everything ticks along nicely.

The jealousy that people stuck with a pseudo-monarchy like the US system of government, and a pseudo-monarch like whichever George Bush is lording it over you today, feel when they observe a modern, functioning democracy to their north ... or the utter stupidity of people who continue to act out their own adolescent political resentments on other people's political stages about which they know nothing ... well, it's sometimes hard to just smile smugly on them.

Really. You have quite enough to worry about in your own back yard when it comes to the legitimacy of your own loci of power and the democratic credentials of your own governments. If you'd spend more time on those matters than you spend hurling ignorant insults at other countries and people ... or hell, even learning something about the countries and people you're so ignorant about ... the entire world would undoubtedly be a little better off.

[Freddie Stubbs]

9. Perhaps because Canadian voters haven't elected MP's who want to

change the status quo on this matter.

[Canuckistanian]

45. The Queen appoints whoever our Government tells her

She does NOT make the decision herself. The Queen would never interfere in our government's decisions.

And, by the way, "Queen Mum" usually refers to the mother of Queen Elizabeth II, who died last year.

Just thought you should know.

[Beaver Tail]

4. The two Politicians mentioned here

Pierre Poilievre and Steve Harper are members of the Conservative Party of Canada (Steve is the Leader of the Party). Just think of them as the Republican Party of Canada.

Steve Harper is a touble maker and IMO a liar. He has been caught in a Scandal of his own which shows how far his party is willing to go to fabricate evidence.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/06/08/harper050608.html

[Spazito]

6. Yep, here is one of them, the wanna-be Prime Minister in all his

glory:



and this is NOT a photoshopped pic, believe it or not!

[blue northern]

31. what the..?

bwahhahahahahahahah
:rofl:

Festus, is that you?

[Maple]

34. Isn't he cute?

I think his personal popularity is at 14% these days...even Festus had his fans I guess. :D

[Maple]

11. Separatist sour grapes,

joined by a few rightwingers who don't like blacks, women or French.

Since our new GG is all 3, the Cons are indulging in hysterics. :D

[CHIMO]

37. A Bit Of Information

The GG represents the country. It is not to be a political position. I guess that if all the required functions could be carried out another way then there would be a drift in that direction if it were better than the present system.

The following link gives a summary of the position, enjoy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/governorgeneral/

The person shown in the photograph is the present GG.

[Karmakaze]

46. Actually - the British monarchy is in an interesting stage...

We all know that Parliament was orginally set up as a means of reducing the power of the monarch - what has happened lately though is almost the opposite.

It seems that the Royal family now represents the PEOPLE against the government, acting as a check on the power of politicians - at least thats where it was heading - with Diana at the head of the line.

Which is why I believe she was murdered - she was just too damn popular, and too damn willing to stand up for the little guy.

Sure we can say that commonwealth nations are not really ruled by the monarch any more - but the fact is legally, in most commonwealth nations, the GG does in fact have the final say over the enactment of laws (they can refuse to sign which stops the law in its tracks) AND can dissolve parliament.

IF the monarchy were to actually take the role of standing up for the people - merely because they are so wealthy they need not be beholden to the corporations - and if they decided to excercise what power they have, they could be a MAJOR thorn in the side of the crypto-facists that seem to be trying to take over every nation on earth.

This is part of the reason why monarchy is so looked down upon today.

For example, why in the hell does it matter to so many Americans that Canada has a monarch as head of state? The monarchs powers are FAR less than the US President's, yet somehow the monarchy is the bad thing!

Maybe it is really a case of the corporations not having power over the monarchs like they do with the politicians?

Maybe, Im just talking out my butt, but it does "feel" like that.

Personally, I think a balanced representative parliament with a monarch as head of state is much the same as a President and Congress. In fact I fail to see the difference EXCEPT the presidents powers are far greater, but his term is limited which while sounding like a good thing, also means that he has to be elected in the first place. Campaigning of course costs so much that you cant HELP but be beholden to SOMEONE.

A monarch who is born into the role can not be so easily influneced, and as long as their powers are limited then they act as a very good check on the power of money.

Hmm this is long - sorry - just got onto a roll :)

[Canuckistanian]

51. Our local AM hate guy is all over this (Lowell Green)

Ranting for hours about her citizenship not being pure enough.
The only requirement for GG is Canadian citizenship.

Funny enough, the only problem with her citzenship is with France. France's laws say that you lose your french citizenship if you join a another country's armed forces or take any kind of foreign government office.

So the only reason Lowell has against her must be..... racism.

[Maple]

52. Yeah the racists are out in full force

France isn't likely to worry about it...whyever would they?

But the fact she's black and female is what worries the rightwing. All of this garbage is coming from the Quebec separatists, who are now tiny in number, and just lost a star, so they're bitter.

The rightwing is backing separatists with this stuff...imagine that! :D

Anything and any wedge to try and break up Canada.

[Lisa]

53. so the GG's husband had a former terrorist build them a bookcase ...

... with a hidden compartment. THAT is what certain commentators are getting worked up about? Are they accusing Ms. Jean of hiding weapons in it, or something?

Actually, I want one of those bookcases. Anyone who's lived in a household with an inquisitive child would probably want one too!

[u4ic]

55. If she was so pro-separatist

Would she have even taken the appointment in the first place?

[Maple]

57. Exactly

This is a tempest in a teapot.

And racists are using it to attack her without actually having to admit it's because of her color.

[Chovexani]

61. Somehow I don't think this would be an issue

If she was white. :eyes:

I am very happy for her, and wish her the best of success in her new job. You go girl!

[Maple]

62. White, male and elderly

and you wouldn't hear a peep about it.

Nobody would even notice.

That's what most of our GG's have been.

But 2 women in a row...one asian, one black and you'd think the world was coming to an end. :D

[daleo]

66. I am sure the swearing in ceremony includes a loyalty statement

Demanding any kind of loyalty oath other than that is just egregious. If she really was a separatist, why would Quebec separatists object to her being GG? It seems to me they would like that, as she would be their ace in the hole if they were to win a referendum. The whole thing just shows that this appointment is not advantageous to separatism.

[Booster]

67. Wow, Canada's smear team is even quicker than ours. Is Rove

on vacation in Canada?

[TrogL]

68. Statement by the Prime Minister

(mods, I have permission to post this in its entirety)

STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER

August 17, 2005


Prime Minister Paul Martin today made the following statement:

"In recent days, Michaëlle Jean, the Governor General Designate, and her husband, Jean-Daniel Lafond, have found themselves the subject of controversy. Mme Jean has seen her and her husband’s loyalty to Canada questioned, particularly by hard-line separatists.

Canadians have a right to know that the occupants of Rideau Hall are unquestionably dedicated to Canada. At the time of her appointment, the Governor General Designate spoke forcefully of her love for our country. Today, Mme Jean has again declared clearly and unequivocally that both she and her husband are fully committed to Canada.

As Prime Minister, I have spoken at length with Mme Jean about her deep attachment to our country. There is no doubt in my mind that her devotion to Canada is longstanding and resolute. That is why I recommended her for appointment. And that is why she enjoys my unqualified support as she prepares to assume the post of Governor General. I have every confidence that she and her husband will serve with dignity, distinction and energy.”