Mother of soldier killed in Iraq objects to memorial

[sabra]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/states/california/northern_california/12396646.htm

Mother of soldier killed in Iraq objects to memorial

Associated Press

SANTA BARBARA - The mother of a Lompoc soldier killed in Iraq is demanding that her son's name be removed from what she considers anti-war memorials on the beach here and outside President Bush's Texas ranch.

Air Force Capt. Derek Argel's remains were buried with four of his comrades at Arlington National Cemetery last week. His mother, Debbie Argel Bastian, says the other memorials are an insult to his memory.

"I'm livid about it," Bastian said of the weekly beach display on Santa Barbara's West Beach and the smaller memorial in Texas, where the mother of another dead soldier has made headlines with a weeklong protest.

....

Organizers say the display is not an anti-war statement but is intended to "make the consequences of war real, and to allow people to express their grief, respect and thoughts." While the group will not remove Argel's cross, it may, out of deference to Bastian, move it out of the front row, said Lane Anderson, a Veterans for Peace member.

....

Bastian said she thinks Sheehan's protest is inappropriate in a time of war.

[sniffa]

1. oh, i see she remarried

that's the reaL story here, and the msm shouLd be on it. :eyes:

[Career Prole]

2. She's entitled to her opinion.

And I'm sorry for her loss.

[Bumblebee]

15. I agree -- she is, and we should respect it and not emulate the RW

thugs in how they talk about Cindy. Cindy objects to her son's name and death being used to support the war; this mother is on the opposite side, and should have the same right, whether we agree with her point of view or not.

[sniffa]

19. no way

we need to harrass this woman and her famiLy!!

i think we couLd get some statements from her oLd high schooL teachers or maybe her ex's famiLy.

what do they think? that's more important.

[Ian David]

58. We need a campaign to re-insert her son's feeding tube

Seriously though, I vote that his cross should be removed if she so wishes.

[DixieDem]

62. It shouldn't be removed, but his name

should be removed if that's what she wishes.

[sakabatou]

93. I agree

Cross starys, name removed

[City Lights]

95. That works for me.

Good idea. :thumbsup:

[Ms. Toad]

122. That's what Eyes Wide Open does...

The boots stay, but the name is listed as withheld.

The opposite phenomenon is also happening - military families are donating boots from their deceased loved ones to be included in the exhibit:

http://peacechicago.blogspot.com/2004/08/military-families-donate-boots-to.html
http://www.realchangenews.org/archive3/2005_04_06/current/news3.html

[VegasWolf]

22. I think that sometimes, but then I simply can't work up any sympathy for

a Bush supporter.

[roguevalley]

113. some day she will understand but not today.

[fudge stripe cookays]

3. No,

your sons's DEATH was inappropriate.

FSC :eyes:

[phantom power]

4. So we're all supposed to wait until after the war to protest?

I think not.

[Mad_Dem_X]

105. That's what I can't understand

Makes no sense at all.

[phantom power]

107. They just don't want people to disagree with them.

They dress it all up with various "arguments", but they don't hold water, and it's because the underlying sentiment isn't about being logical, it's just that they don't want anybody to complicate their life by disagreement.

[LaurenG]

5. Livid over a memorial to her child?

That sounds like utter and COMPLETE insanity. :shrug:

[sniffa]

6. because she didn't receive money for it maybe?

just saying... i can smear too.

http://www.lompocrecord.com/articles/2005/07/02/news/news11.txt

Argel's mother, Debbie Argel Bastian, would oversee where the money is allocated, though she said none of the proceeds would go to Argel's son, who has a separate trust fund.

[melnjones]

38. That's not fair...

That article says that the money would go to the children of fallen soldiers, but NOT to her own grandson. I'd imagine that putting funds that she is overseeing into the pockets of her own grandson, even though he IS the son of a fallen soldier, would look like a huge conflict of interest. There is nothing in this article that says she's doing anything wrong, and you are quoting out of context.

[sniffa]

42. no shit

i'm quoting out of context. that was the point.

[skypilot]

45. I was just about to post about that.

Is it just me or does it seem that suddenly the right is all up in arms about memorials? It just seems to be another example of saying that black is white. Suddenly, memorials are a bad, bad thing.

[Seabiscuit]

123. Yup. Now memorials bad. Unless they're Xtrian memorials with huge

phallic crosses on government property on mountaintops.

[uppityperson]

47. Sounds upset thinking her kid's name is being used for politcal purposes

Missing the point that he is being honored. However, if this is how she feels, his name should simply be removed respectfully per family request.

[Mike Daniels]

66. Well, if she was pro-war and the kid was happy serving in Iraq

then I think she's within her rights to ask that his name be removed from a display being used to protest the war and the anti-war groups should honor her wishes.

[Canadian_moderate]

7. To be honest...

This whole Sheehan episode reminds me of a Jerry Spinger episode, but then again, I'm not the activist type.

I'm so damn glad my country stayed the hell out of Iraq.

[Ripley]

12. That is a pretty crappy thing to say.

Comparing Cindy's protest to jerry springer. And to call it an "episode" is very dismissive.

Why don't you read Barrett's post below from Truthout about the guy in the truck. Then call it a Springer episode.

[Canadian_moderate]

34. Hey, I wasn't just referring to Cindy Sheehan

The way the right has responded in their treatment of her is disgraceful. This is no way for anyone to grieve.

[Spazito]

18. We are, however, in Afghanistan and are no longer peace-keeping

The mission has been changed and we are now under the direct command of the US armed forces. You might want to become active if you don't agree with our armed forces being used and having to obey the orders of commanders other than Canadians.

Edited to correct typo.

[0007]

30. ......Most Canadians have a little more class than what you

exhibit.. BTW who ask YOU anyway?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wildwww2]

46. The left isn`t using Cindy for much of anything. We have no Media

As far a I know the republican owned US media hasn`t said Boo about the guy in the truck who ran over the crosses with American flags on them. Would the Canadian media ignore the Canadian flag being treated in such a manner? I would hope not. But you guys don`t have a fascist dictator to protect. The corporate raiders in our country do. And when a person joins the military they should still have a right not to be used as cannon fodder. Or be chastised because he or she did not know any better. Bu$h Inc. should have known better. They just don`t care. As they proudly proclaimed after Camp Casey prayed for the dead.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[Spazito]

52. Wow, your comments are the exact replicas of the 'right-wing freaks"

you espouse to despise, how ironic!

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spazito]

55. Yes, he went to support his buddies, not the bush cabal's illegal

invasion and occupation of Iraq. Once you donate to DU, you can use the search feature and you will see his position before he went to Iraq.

Edited to add: Welcome to DU!

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Spazito]

60. Yes, he did, unlike others who actually support the war yet can only

be 'couch commandos', he enlisted and served, died for a lie.

[mondo joe]

74. Please don't blame the victim. Casey acted responsibly.

It's not his job to use the military appropriately - that's the job of the President.

You're assigning responsibility where it doesn't belong.

[Canadian_moderate]

82. That's funny, because

I've always believe to it is the responsibility of each citizen to question their government's policies. If you disagree with your country's aggresive foreign policies, you should probably not join the military under the president's command.

[mondo joe]

84. You can't anticipate the policies before you sign up, and that

includes the actions taken while in Iraq and the poor management once there.

Casey volunteered to serve. He didn't volunteer to be misused.

And in any case, Cindy isn't Casey and SHE has the right to question what happened.

But the REALLY funny thing is that you say it is the responsibiilty of each citizen to question the policies, but when Cindy does it you say it's like a Jerry Springer show.

Make up your mind.

[Bridget Burke]

108. He was a Captain in the Air Force.

And may well have begun his military career before Bush.

Thanks for your input.

[bpilgrim]

116. fyi: he joined in 2000

and his mother is protesting against his foreign policy which you objected to in your OP.

sounds like u could qualify as a JS guest yourself... ya know what they say it takes 1 to know 1 ;->

peace

[Ripley]

59. I'm sure if someone could channel Casey.

He would say he was sooooo happy he died for the noble cause and he was glad he was sent to Iraq on a mission to get the guys who attacked us 9/11 and take away the stockpiles of nukes aimed at America.

I don't respect you.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ripley]

63. You are disrespecting this entire website.

By marching into this thread to proclaim Casey fucking asked to die.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

79. The argument seems to be that if you volunteer to serve your

service can be misused in any way imaginable and you have no right to complain or question it.

Pretty bizarre.

[Ripley]

81. Pretty bizarre.

That a liberal would sign up to DU today just to post that!

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Canadian_moderate]

92. Centrists/moderates should shut up and go away

That's what I've basically been told by a few of the people here. Funny how intolerance is almost as rampant on the left as it is on the right. No big tents over here either.

[mondo joe]

101. That's ridiculous. Perhaps it depends on your definition of centrist.

Something I don't consider either of you to be.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

106. Based on your posts, of course.

And it's cute that you think YOUR posts are objective.

Very cute.

[mondo joe]

77. Casey volunteered for service. But his service was used

illegitimately. That's the issue: not that he died in service but that he died in service in a debacle that should have been handled properly.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

75. Hard to see how a nice country like Canada could produce

someone like this.

[Ripley]

78. lol

Wow, Cindy is really drawing them out huh?

[Bridget Burke]

111. Out of the woodwork.

But I've learned to use the phrase "Tag Team." "C----- J---" will be removed by the Moderator.

[Spazito]

85. LOL, we do have a few, here is another 'production'

This is the leader of the right wing opposition who wants to be the Prime Minister, the 'honourable leader of the opposition, Stephen Harper, and the photo has NOT been photo-shopped, it is the real him in all his glory.

[mondo joe]

86. When I hear about Canadians like that I am reminded of cats

that give birth to something with two heads, or some other weird deformity.

They usually prodice something wonderful - but every now and then it goes wrong.

[Canadian_moderate]

87. Not all Canadians are sheep.

Many of us form our own opinions and we may differ in perspective from time to time.

I don't like Bush, in fact I hate most of his policies, but I refuse to subscribe to the belief that he is the most evil man on this planet and that he is enemy number one. That said, his reckless actions make him one of the world's most dangerous men. I cannot believe that any country would elect a man with such policies.

[mondo joe]

96. Who cares if he's"evil" if he's that dangerous?

Really, what's the difference?

And I'm not asking for sheep - I'm asking for intelligent, consistent thought. Like I generally see from Canadians.

[Ripley]

97. Why do some people go out of their way to defend Weed?

Besides, who in this thread called him Hitler or Evil? Oh yeah, no one. :dunce:

[Spazito]

80. Ummm, I don't think you have read DU rules

this is considered a personal attack, you might want to remove it before the mods do it for you.

[Ripley]

83. Why are you here?

Other than to call me an asshole? Go back to your hidey hole in Batesville, Indiana.

[Canadian_moderate]

91. Oh right, no dissenting opinions are allowed

on the left either.

It's funny how similar you fringe folks can be. Enjoy your forum where people are not allowed to have varying opinion. It makes for very interesting discussion.

[Bridget Burke]

109. "No dissenting opinions on the left"

Gosh, I'll bookmark that. It's so original!

[saigon68]

121. adios

vaya con dios

[Klapaucius]

125. Channelling.....

So, bets on how soon they'll have that 'Crossing Over' twit Edwards, saying that he's in contact with Casey, and that he doesn't want his mother to do this?

I give it a week, maybe two.

K.

[mondo joe]

69. It's not Casey's job to use the military responsibly, it's the

President's.

Don't blame the victim.

[Ripley]

54. I noticed that too.

It sounds like he is saying Cindy has no right to blame Bush or stand in a ditch outside his pig farm. It sounds like he is blaming Casey for his own death.

[Canadian_moderate]

68. Oh thanks, I guess I'll go away and hang out with them instead.

I realize this a very left-leaning forum, but to be honest, extremism will not return the Democrats to power in the U.S.

Every death in Iraq is a tragedy, but the soldiers who went there had access to the same media we have access to, yet they chose to believe GWB and went on to fight in Iraq. While I have been against the war in Iraq from the start, I do hope that things will improve soon for the people of Iraq, even if GWB does get to claim credit for it. There are too many lives at stake. Here is an article form the Washington Post with a little more positive news. As much as I was against this war, I'd like to see more of this good news because it would save Iraqi lives.

Unlike many of you here, I don't think GWB is a reincarnation of Hitler. I don't like the man's policies, but I do think that he is naive enough to actually think he's doing the right things for his country. Not every conservative is evil, many are simply uninformed and misguided. ;o)

[Spazito]

70. LOL, naive???? Right

I guess that term could be attributed to many but to attribute it to bush is, in itself, naive.

[mondo joe]

71. Protesting a war based on lies is not "extremism".

But thanks for the uninformed advice!

[Bridget Burke]

110. And the liberal media are ignoring the "good news" from raq

Gosh, more original thinking!

[mondo joe]

112. Ha! Do they get a Talking Points bulletin before signing up?

"I'm a centrist/moderate"

"The press isn't talking about the good things in Iraq"

"The left doesn't allow dissent"

[bettyellen]

114. so it's okay by you that bush is naive, but casey should have known better

even though mr. naive lied to us?
that's fine by you, just believing the lies isn't?
oh yeah, news flash, many of us don't believe her was elected either.

[mondo joe]

115. Another brilliant observation!

Thanks for pinning that down. I knew it wasn'tsitting right with me but I couldn't articulate it.

How funny that we're supposed to hold a 21 year old kid as accountable as a middle aged commander in chief.

[bpilgrim]

117. we are united in supporting anyone against this war and SPEAKING OUT

trying to paint that as 'extremism' is the same way the RW whackos try to smear her and her supporters and obviously be pointed out as such.

peace

[0007]

56. YOU think way too much and then call it reality, what a joke!

[mondo joe]

67. Harsh but foolish - not "reality".

This is what being politically engaged means.

You might prefer a country in which everyone politely keeps their mouths shut and doesn't question the government publically.

But it's not what makes a politically engaged electorate.

[SoCalDem]

8. Like Doofus said.."It's a free country".

Everyone does not need to weigh in on Cindy's protest..She's not asking for donations or support from all survivors, so they have permission to just "Butt Out"

[Barrett808]

9. But see Will Pitt's account of a father who lost his son

Over the weekend, as the camp prepared for the arrival of the counter-demonstrators, a huge diesel pickup truck rumbled into camp with its nose menacingly pointed towards the tents. It sat for a while, and everyone waited to see what would happen. Ann Wright, the main organizer of camp activities, finally approached the truck and met the driver. He was a father, Wright discovered, and his son had been killed in Iraq.

He did not agree with this protest, he said, but wanted to know if his son's name was on one of the crosses in the Arlington West cemetery. Ann Wright invited the man to walk the rows of crosses and find his son's name. They found it. Ann and the man from the truck sat down in front of the cross, wrapped their arms around each other, and wept. Later, the man shared a beer with Cindy Sheehan and told her he loved her. That is a victory, one that surpasses any sort of mean politics.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081505Z.shtml

[melnjones]

41. wow...nt

[oneighty]

10. Puzzling

Like it or not the war dead belong to all of us. They are our burden to carry forever.

180

[Mari333]

11. Cognitive dissonance

so many parents cannot bear the thought that their children literally died for nothing. I guess its too much to bear.

[Cassandra]

17. They didn't die for nothing.

They died doing their duty. Tragically, they were lied to but that's no fault of the soldiers, nor is it an indication of any emptiness in their sacrifice. Any lack of meaning or purpose in their deaths is ENTIRELY the fault of this administration.

[Nihil]

32. Sadly, they did

> They died doing their duty.

That's *how* they died.

> Tragically, they were lied to but that's no fault of the soldiers

That's *why* they died.

> Any lack of meaning or purpose in their deaths is ENTIRELY the
> fault of this administration.

You are exactly right but, unfortunately, the fact that their deaths
have achieved absolutely SFA to date (unless you consider Halliburton
profit, etc.) means that they died for nothing.

Their deaths have achieved nothing = They died for nothing

You simply can't spin it any other way.

[Cassandra]

39. Not trying to spin it...

simply trying to show some respect for the soldiers' sacrifice; they didn't ask to be lied to. Of course, the invasion of Iraq was for nothing but oil, military contractors and grandiose notions of Middle East domination by the US. In the history of war, most soldiers die for "nothing" but their duty; WWII being a rare exception.

"Their deaths have achieved nothing = They died for nothing"

Actually, their deaths have achieved less than nothing as we are in worse shape than we were before they died, but I prefer to rhetorically lay the blame at the feet of Bushco.

[Nihil]

124. Sorry Cassandra

I shouldn't have said "you simply can't spin it any other way",
it should have been "It simply can't be spun any other way".
Did not intend to suggest that you were trying to mislead.

At the end of the day, the soldiers volunteered for a job that they
knew could lead to their death or crippling injury. Whatever their
reason, it was the choice of a free man/woman. They were responsible
for their own lives but not for the criminal actions of their leaders.

I just find it sad that such potential is being brutally discarded
for the personal gains of an elite sat safe from harm, thousands of
miles away.

Peace. :hug:

[okieinpain]

21. nah, I think it's more like they believed the idiot in charge, and now

they just can not admit they were wrong. you know like a battered wife.

[jahyarain]

43. whatever anyone else says

it can't be summed up better than that. i almost feel sorry for these people until i remember they're doing it to themselves

[Sperk]

13. I know tbrnews.org is not respected here but......

the latest posting is about Rove getting fake parents voicing disapproval of Sheehan.....

The ongoing plan is to get Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Couilter and Drudge and his pin headed friends to trash her. Rove calls this the “Grass-Roots Response” task force and orders have been issued to the Friends in the Media to go ahead. Faked interviews with obscure White House staffers disguised as grieving parents of the recently killed in Iraq have been going on in the basement for a week now and I happened to blunder into one. If it wasn’t so sick, it would be funny. This is just like something out of ‘Wag the Dog’ but in the case of Rove, it would be ‘Grease the Pig.’ Then these faked sound bites are sent off to paid media employees at the various networks: CNN, FOX, NBC and others to be played on prime time as “growing public outrage” at the “lies and self-seeking” efforts on the part of Ms. Sheehan and a “gang of left-wing Bush haters” and “anti-military left-wingers.” I have seen one of the scripts that O’Reilly is supposed to read, and will read, believe me, and it reads like something Dr. Goebbels would have trouble with it’s so fake. Rumor around here has it (Bush is not here but his any friends are) is that he was ranting around his very bad taste “ranch house” that he wanted “that goddam bitch” arrested but since the media is now involved, the sight of Secret Service goons dragging off a Gold Star mother in front of the cameras is too much for anyone else (but Bush and Rove) to take. The Rove people, via the FBI, have been dredging the files looking for something…anything…bad to use against her. The slobbering Drudge would be given reports of jay walking, overdue library books, bad school grades or whatever these perverts can dig up. Well, to those of you fools who voted for him, George W. Bush is your man, not ours and you are stuck with him. You can wear the little flags or the crosses in your lapel but you still stink and shine like a dead mackerel in the moonlight.”

[geek tragedy]

14. I don't agree with her, but her wishes as a grieving mother should

be respected.

[leftchick]

20. and so should Cindy Sheehans

and all of the thousands of anti-war veterans and their families.

[geek tragedy]

28. I absolutely agree. Criticizing opinions is perfectly fair, but

personal attacks on grieving mothers are a sign of indecency.

[DoctorMyEyes]

26. and I agree with you

If she doesn't want her sons name used then it should be removed. I was sick to see freepers with pics of Casey Sheehan and the words "Freedom isn't Free". They had no right.

If this mother doesn't want anti-war protesters invoking the name of her dead son that's her prerogative and should be respected.

[deadparrot]

65. I agree. nt

[Politicub]

16. Bushco's PR machine is working overtime

to unearth stories like this one. Expect more of them as the days go on.

The problem with them is that they ring hollow. Cindy has a right to express her grief in the way that is right for her. She has more authenticity than the folks Bush's PR firm is putting in front of the media.

My heart goes out to this mother, and I can understand why she wants to believe her son didn't die for a war built on a pack of lies. If I had lost a loved one in Iraq, I would want to believe they were there for a noble cause, too. But belief doesn't equate to truth. And the truth is coming out at full tilt now.

[Lerkfish]

25. yup, my thought exactly. I can hear rove in the situation room...

Rove: We've got to find some mother, ANY mother that disapproves and get her front and center in the press...PRONTO!

[nookiemonster]

51. And Karen Hughes isn't far behind.

n/t

[ElectroPrincess]

89. Oh yeah, CNN Headline News is all over it - "Smear Cindy"

One "seriously made-over" platinum blonde commentator reported about two hours ago that "Cindy Sheehan's husband is NOW filing for divorce. He says it has to do with the stress of losing their son."

The talking head said that after reporting of the desecration of the crosses - their term, "destroying the anti-war mom's symbols."

The Main Stream Corporate Media is shameless. :P

[Lerkfish]

23. but...is she A-OK with mowing them down with a pickup truck?

I'm just askin

[lebkuchen]

24. Another parent who feels Americans breathe freer air because her son died

in Iraq for WMD that never existed, despite what Bush says God told him.

[LibDemAlways]

27. Why would a memorial recognizing that

he is a fallen soldier be an insult to his memory? Seems to me it honors his memory and makes people aware of his sacrifice, unlike the BFEE that doesn't want returning coffins photographed.

I understand that this woman wants to believe her son's death wasn't in vain, but she's shooting the messenger here.

[Orion The Hunter]

31. RE: Not making any sense

I am right there with you LibDem... I mean the memorial is not about or even part of the protest. Even demonstrators from the side opposing Mrs Sheehan took time to come over and lay down flowers and pay their respects to the brave men and women who have died in the fighting in Iraq. Its about remembering those who have sacrificed their lives.

While this woman's wishes should be respected, it's a shame this one mother apparently cannot see that the memorial is about honouring her son's sacrifice.

[AlGore-08.com]

48. Why invalidate her feelings because you disagree with her?

Would you feel the same way if it was a right wing group who put the name of some family member who was killed in 9/11 on a cross, and used those crosses to support a policy you opposed (like invading Iran or making the Patriot Act permanent)?

If any of the parents don't want their child's name on a cross, then the protesters should talk to those parents and see if they can get their okay. If the parents still insist that they want their child's name off the cross - - then the protesters should take that name off the cross.

It's just common, human decency to do so.

[LibDemAlways]

53. I'm not invalidating her feelings.

If she doesn't want her son represented, that's certainly her right.
Veterans for Peace should honor her wishes by removing her son's name from the cross.

All I was pointing out was that the Arlington West project serves as a reminder that Americans are making the ultimate sacrifice every day in Iraq and should not be forgotten - sort of a precursor to the Iraq War Memorial that will one day, many years from now, be dedicated in DC.

[Bryn]

29. Then May I Put My Brother's Name

In Stead of An American Soldier Killed in Iraq whose Mother objects displaying his name on Makeshift Memorials? Not seriously, though as I know those are for soldiers killed in Iraq. My brother was killed in Viet Nam War in 1969 when he was 20 and I was barely 19. It has stayed with me forever and it always hurts. Why didn't they pull out before we lost over 50,000 boys!! I support Cindy completely! Pull out from Iraq NOW! We are getting NOWHERE in Iraq. We did not win in Viet Nam. War like that is never an answer. It's not a noble thing to do..to die in some war based on politican lies and greed and power.

[AlCzervik]

33. I'm not going to bash this woman or any other gold star parent

everyone deals with their grief in their own way.

[Lindacooks]

98. I agree. What Camp Casey should do is send the cross

to her, perhaps with some flowers. I'm serious - that's the decent thing to do.

[AlCzervik]

99. Thats a good idea, that way she knows her request was honored

and the flowers are always a nice touch.

[Postman]

36. Bastian said she thinks protest is inappropriate in a time of war....Then

she doesn't blame the German people for rising against Hitler during WW II?

Apparantly she thinks US foreign policy is just, fair and honest. No need to protest.

Free speech is only appropriate when it doesn't involve matters of life and death.

[Norquist Nemesis]

37. "inappropriate in a time of war"

I am so SICK and TIRED of this crap about appropriate/inappropriate in a time of war! Why in the fuck do these people believe it is only acceptable for citizens of this country to stand with or shut up "in a time of war"?

ARGH!!!!!!!!

[Bridget Burke]

40. I'm sorry for her loss, but Captain Argel was more than "her child"

He died in an undeclared war begun by our "elected" representatives. He served in the armed services of OUR country. We paid for his funeral; I would have preferred paying towards his pension.

Perhaps she, too, will change her mind, eventually.

[pecwae]

44. Just take the cross

with Derek's name down. I'm sorry for her loss;everyone grieves differently.

[AlGore-08.com]

49. Or replace it with a cross with no name

eom

[0007]

64. Or one of the 100,000 Iraqis that has been killed by junior's

hand.

[DixieDem]

50. Leave the cross and replace his name with "Unknown Soldier"

I'm not surprised. Looky Here --
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1463880/posts

[whosinpower]

90. Simple fix

leave the cross and put on - "Name withheld".

[DixieDem]

94. Best solution yet!!! n/t

[daleo]

100. The fact that her son died in Bush's war is in the public domain

So, nobody has to remove a reference to that fact. For the sake of preventing a pointless argument with a mother who has not yet come to terms with the reality of Bush's war, it would probably be best to remove the name. Perhaps replace the name with the statement "fallen soldier's name removed at mother's request".

[havocmom]

103. A lot more mothers are 'livid' about sons and daughters dropped into

a war without ANY legitimate reason.

[Mad_Dem_X]

104. "Inappropriate in a time of war"??????????

Lady, if there wasn't a war, there'd be no need for a protest! These people--including your son--would still be alive!!!

:wtf: is wrong with these people????!!!!!

[Wizard777]

118. Sheehan's protest is inappropriate in a time of war against a nation

that was Hors de Combat. A time of war against a Nation with NO conventional weapons to defend it's Sovereignty with. A time of war against a nation that could not have possibly posed a real threat to America.

My Prayers for Mrs. Bastian and other like her. I pray they will quit accepting the blame Bush tries to deflect and cast upon their loved ones. That they will begin to accept the love and support of America. That they will no longer allow Bush to hide behind these dead veterans. I pray that they realize that their Loved One answered a call and will always be hero's for doing that. Regardless of what comes from the False Alarm sounded by George Bush. They have no shame to bear in this issue.
Their loss us the equivalent of a Fire Fighter killed in a traffic accident responding to an alarm that was later revealed to be a false Alarm. Some snot nosed rich brat pulled the fire alarm. Just to hear the bells and sirens. To see the bright flashing lights. The feeling of power as people scramble at his command to respond. To reign in chaos and disorder then thrive in teh thrill of it all.
The dead Fire Fighter like our dead troops has no shame to bear for answering a call with a desire to defend and save lives. The shame belongs entirely to the brat that turned in the false alarm. I wish they would understand this.

[MetaTrope]

119. Take note soldiers: Don't want a memorial? Don't get killed.

:hurts:

[Wizard777]

120. The Cross should remain. The name removed out of respect for the family.

It's bad enough that they have suffered with President Bush's disrespect of their Family. The only thing that could possibly be worse is us disrespecting them for our cause as noble as it is. When you fight fire with fire. To the victor goes the ashes. We should want more than ashes for our troops and their families.

I think this is the best course. The Cross should remain in it's place. The name removed out of respect for the Families wishes. A black sash should be hanged on the cross as a display of our grief for the Family who is still suffering with the guilt and shame Bush is trying to place upon them. Every American Family is unique. That's the great thing about America. There are some similarities. But no two are truly alike. So they will also heal their wounds at different rates. Each Family should be allowed to heal at their own rate. Some may need to cry longer than others. That's life. Then if any dissenting families should gave a change of heart. The sash can be removed and the name replaced. This would be a testament to the healing powers of Peace. Cindy needs our support. These Families need our love to help them to heal. They are our fellow Americans not the enemy even if they do support Bush. They need to see true compassion and respect. We don't even want to try to out Bush Bush. Give them their say and respect it.