NYT: Many Going to College Aren't Ready, Report Finds

[DeepModem Mom]

Many Going to College Aren't Ready, Report Finds
By TAMAR LEWIN
Published: August 17, 2005


Only about half of this year's high school graduates have the reading skills they need to succeed in college, and even fewer are prepared for college-level science and math courses, according to a yearly report from ACT, which produces one of the nation's leading college admissions tests.

The report, based on scores of the 2005 high school graduates who took the exam, some 1.2 million students in all, also found that fewer than one in four met the college-readiness benchmarks in all four subjects tested: reading comprehension, English, math and science.

"It is very likely that hundreds of thousands of students will have a disconnect between their plans for college and the cold reality of their readiness for college," Richard L. Ferguson, chief executive of ACT, said in an online news conference yesterday.

ACT sets its college-readiness benchmarks - including the reading comprehension benchmark, which is new this year - by correlating earlier students' ACT scores with grades they actually received as college freshmen. Based on that data, the benchmarks indicate the skill level at which a student has a 70 percent likelihood of earning a C or better, and a 50 percent chance of earning a B or better.

Among those who took the 2005 test, only 51 percent achieved the benchmark in reading, 26 percent in science, and 41 percent in math; the figure for English was 68 percent. Results from the new optional ACT writing test, which was not widely taken this year, were not included in the report....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/17/education/17scores.html

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. Well, thank God we have Republicans in charge now,

so that education will improve after the democrats fucking destroyed it with their evolution theory and their science and, above all, their funding.






GUFFAW!!!

:puke:

[gauguin57]

20. Ain't THAT the truth?

Are the members of the Repug leadership trying to make us all as stooopid as they are? Maybe that's been their plan all along! Yikes!

[VegasWolf]

32. "Leve No Chuld Behund!" nt

[existentialist]

57. (unless, of course,

their parents can't pay for a private education)

[barb162]

67. I think the currenrt pugs don't want the people to have education

It will fit right in with minimum wage jobs, fundamentalism, not expecting anything of government, being docile, etc.

[Rich Hunt]

35. public education

The undermining of the public education system in America has been a lonnnng time in the making. How else would you be able to recruit or sucker large numbers of people into taking your side?

This goes beyond creationism or evolution - they don't want kids to ask questions, learn history, or think independently. That didn't happen overnight - that's what this study indicates.

[bbgrunt]

36. you're so right

this is an overarching theme of any government that wishes to maintain power through fear and repression.

This actually started way back in the 60's when the first voices started demanding "student evaluation" of teachers and it became fashionable to denigrate public school teachers.

Maintaining educational standards in the face of universities competing for students--along with reliance on student evaluations, I fear, is nearly impossible.

[Southpaw Bookworm]

62. Started long before that

Go back to the days when public schools were de facto training facilities for the mills, mines, and factories that ran entire towns. They didn't want critical thinking or even a good education: They wanted good little workers who could sit for long periods of time, read enough to follow instructions, and responded to bells like Pavlov's dog. At the same time, the coal companies and others would pay for athletic teams to have the best, because it gave the locals something to rally around and an entertainment opportunity that allowed them to forget about how bad they were being screwed. Schools were a warehouse for nepotism and cronyism: Until probably the 1940s, in some areas most of the teachers were the children of someone important or someone who did the company a favor. In some places, a high school education wasn't required.

[raccoon]

71. Thank you! We hear so many negative things about schools

now. I'm glad you pointed out that they weren't so great going back decades further.

[lovuian]

2. I think all the students need to pay ACT 500 dollars for a Prep

course which will teach them the answers to the test and then they will get in!!!

I'm getting ticked off at all this testing bull crap!!!

[Newsjock]

3. They may be stooopid ...

... but at least they ain't marryin' homosexuals. Puh-raise.

[gauguin57]

22. Aw, hell, Newsjock ...

... coffee spew all over my keyboard ... dammit! Too funny!

[Yupster]

4. Simple solution

Just make the college work easier.

[Igel]

39. They tried that. n/t

[WindRavenX]

5. please

It's not as if science and readin' and all that faggy ass learnin' is what Gawd Jesus Christ™ wanted.
College. Pssh. that's for the gays.


:sarcasm:

[donco6]

6. What's galling about this . . .

. . . is that in high school, we have to take what comes to us - whether it be from other districts, charter schools, home schools, foreign countries, etc. We have kids who come to us with monolingual skills in languages like Russian, Hmong, of course Spanish, at all age levels. We do all kinds of differentiated instruction, extra reading courses, after school programs, special education, testing, retesting, grouping, regrouping, mentors, you name it - we've done it. Sure, it would be easier if all the kids came to us 100% proficient, but they don't. So WE bend. WE figure out how to make them successful as best we can. But colleges just feel they deserve to have kids handed to them who are 100% ready for college? WTF?

This just chaps my ass.

[Coventina]

13. A simple and elegant soulution exists: The Community College

It is a great resource and often functions as a bridge between the H.S. and the University.

I DON'T think the University should be dumbed down, otherwise the US will fall even FURTHER behind the rest of the world in research and technology and other fields.

The Community College exists to serve its local community. They offer a broad range of courses. They teach English as a Second Language, remedial reading, remedial math, study skills classes....the list could go on and on.

What makes it really great is that if your language skills are poor, you can take remedial English (to prepare for English 101) but if you are good at math, the Community College offers University level algebra, calculus, etc. so you can get University requirements out of the way while you improve your writing.

Support your local community college. It is there for you.

[TalkingDog]

28. Having taught at CCs and Universities, I can tell you that

CCs are merely post-high school. They do very little to increase critical thinking skills, writing, reading, comprehension, lateral thinking or any other skill useful for higher learning.

I always get complaints from my CC students that I am much more difficult than their other instructors. I demand a lot of work, I grade hard and don't double reward required behavior (other instructors give extra points for showing up for every class or handing all assignments in on time)

I explain that what the other instructors are doing is actually harming them in the long run, and I would be failing in my duties to prepare them for harder classes and ultimately the real world, by going easy on them. A number of these same students have contacted me later to thank me for being hard, because their first year at University proves me right.

If you can't afford University (as I couldn't right out of high school), then yes, go to a CC. But know that chances are you will be crushed (temporarily) by the weight of work and advanced thinking skills required from a Junior in University.

[Coventina]

41. Well, maybe it depends upon the college because

I went to both community college and the university and I would say that my classes were BETTER at the community college than the university.

I learned far more from my classes at the CC than I did from the U.

I have also worked at a different CC than the one I attended, and the instructors there are extremely qualified, dedicated, caring and take education far more seriously (in general) than has been my experience at the U level.

Frankly, I'm quite sick of the sneering attitude toward community colleges, as my varied and long term (over a decade between being a student and working) experience shows me that it is quite unjustified.

[TalkingDog]

48. I'm glad you've had good experiences

Mine as a CC student were moderate. Mixed bag between good and horrible instructors. Don't get me wrong, they were nice human beings, but after having similar classes in both setting I found that, in my experience, the University classes relayed more information in a more effective way.

And as a CC instructor, consistantly being asked by students to explain something their instructors would or could not. Or correcting dire misinformation.

I'm not knocking CCs. I wouldn't teach at one if I thought it was a lost cause. But I frankly don't think the students are as challenged there as in the U. system precisely because CCs are supposed to be community oriented.

[OKNancy]

55. There is another advantage to Community College

The price. My daughter attended two years at a CC and lived at home. She got some great teachers and was very fortunate. She left this week for a state University. She is starting her Junior year with zero debt, instead of the 20,000 per year that others have who went straight to the University.

At first she was a little upset because we couldn't afford to send her but now she is going and some of the people who went there straight out of high school bombed out, mostly due to immaturity and too much partying. She is now 21, mature and dedicated. I have no doubt she will have a successful experience.

[HockeyMom]

61. I went back to school in my 40s

I went to NYU at night after graduating high school. Although I had a B average there, I had to quit after a year because the commute, full time day job, and going to school at night got to be too much. I was falling asleep on the job, literally.

Twenty years and two kids later, I enrolled at the local Community College. I was told by many people (including my husband) that I would never make it because I had been out of school for too many years. It was a piece of cake in comparison to NYU. Yes, even after twenty years. I graduated CC with a 3.9, only because of Accounting 101(zzzzzzz).

[NuttyFluffers]

64. I have had a similar experience.

At the U. I had a wide range of quality in teachers. Some were quite good, while most were disinterested tenured seat warmers. The classes were overcosted and generally blew. No teacher/institutional interest or support; just a factory producing drones to be taught by struggling grad student TAs.

At the CCs I actually had teachers who *cared* about what they were teaching. It was a breath of fresh air. Often the classes were easier than U. classes -- but only due to the pacing. I also discovered by that time I cannot. at. all. learn in a quarter style system. There's no depth to the material, no way to make it relevant to your life, mind, and soul. So I found this CCs semester system far better than that U.'s quarter system. But the passion the teachers had for teaching was infectious and fostered learning and exploration. It wasn't a heartless regurgitation of endless factoids to be transcribed into copious notes which afterwards were to be vomited forth upon a rapidly occuring test and beer bonged into oblivion by the weekend. I felt human; I felt like a student. It was a priceless experience.

Now at a State I'm doing better. Still semester style and now learning something I want. The classes are not as hard as U. in terms of deluge of mindless facts, but there's more enthusiasm from the faculty to teach the material, I find. And though it isn't as inspirational as the CC I went to, it does offer a greater challenge that I was looking for.

It always depends on the school, that's the thing. And you can't really judge a school too well by its reputation, architecture, brochures, and vanilla campus tours. What I have found out though is that your gut is far better determining where you should go than "the facts." Education should be uplifting and engaging, because that's the only way you'll retain the knowledge and bother to use it. Otherwise what's the point? Might as well go to a degree mill and then later bullshit the job interviewer; works well enough in America if that's the only value someone places on a degree.

[existentialist]

59. Community College

in my experience--I have also taught at a community college, and will probably be doing so again--is not what I wish it were. That is certainly true.

For instance, I had one young woman in my class who wants to go to law school. She was the best student in the class, earned a 'B'--the best grade that I assigned in the class, and I have so far been unable to get through to her that if she wants (1) to go to law school, and (2) be remotely prepared if she does get in to law school then she has to work harder and earn 'A's.

She thinks that a B is OK; if she wants to go to law school it is not sufficient.

This attitude is better than average as far as an understanding of what is needed.

The sad thing is, the young woman is plenty smart enough, and could do it.

[Orsino]

51. Of course, we could actually support our high schools...

...but that idea comes straight from Hell.

[Toots]

30. Too bad educaters make less than garbagemen.

What you say is true but I doubt that these high of percentages are just the kids you listed as being harder to instruct. I think this is a trend across the nation that has been ongoing for many years. Ever watch Leno's Jay walking. It is very embarrassing for America. If Americans were not so ignorant the Republicans would not have a base.

[WMliberal]

7. WMliberal's report finds that colleges should not accept people

who aren't ready.

[Viking12]

73. Catch 22

(Public)Universities need to expand enrollment to maintain funding. We can't reduce enrollment to the those who were getting in under older guidelines and we make room for even more that aren't ready. This results in larger class sizes, reducing student/professor interaction for more students that need more attention. Can you say slippery slope?

[wli]

8. need to get those kids doing Malliavin calculus and class field theory

Okay, maybe that's a bit too far. But seriously, the subject matter is rather severely lacking.

1. Foreign language learning starts far, far too late (it's best to start this rather early in life).
2. Math spends almost a decade drilling on things that should be done with in considerably less time.
3. Math doesn't really go into any depth and the most advanced methods taught in HS aren't applied in other fields (e.g. calculus isn't used in physics or prob/stat... though physics really wants the calculus of variations)
4. History is so censored it's content-free, and even what little is covered rarely involves historical research or attempting to answer "why?"
5. Coverage of important literary material is far too limited, censorship being part of the reason, and low expectations another. Things like la Nausée, das Kapital, Notes from Underground, Genji monogatari, and so on are completely ignored despite having started major movements or being premier examples of some genre.
6. Natural sciences are hobbled by lack of mathematical background (physics, chemistry, and biology need differential equations, etc.).
7. What the heck are "social studies" supposed to be? Instead of such an artificial aggregation it would be better to get people more widely read.
8. Where is economics?
9. Some form of art should be mandatory, e.g. learning a musical instrument.

[jmowreader]

11. One big problem with teaching history

This is aside from the "we don't want to get sued, and we will if we tell them anything that damages their precious self-esteem" problem that has invaded the history books of the past twenty years.

It's the "300 years in one" theory of teaching history.

On August 25, our schools will open. And later that day, a history teacher is going to hand his students a book that's two inches thick. "That is the History Of Our Country. We will study this history this year."

He will spend a whole quarter going through the Colonial period.

The next quarter will take us from 1774 to the years just before Secession.

Because we're in the South and there are still people down here fighting the Civil War, we'll spend the next quarter talking about the Confederacy, the Civil War and Reconstruction. It is very hard to talk about this without mentioning slavery, but somehow they'll manage.

Which gives us nine weeks to go through everything that happened from the end of the carpetbagger era to the current state of the Bush problem.

History needs to be broken down into four neatly-packaged eras: everything up to the end of the Revolution is year 1; from the Revolution to the Spanish-American War is year 2; the SAW to the Japanese surrender is year 3; and everything that happened after World War II is year 4.

Under this plan, you could talk at length about certain subjects. Example: Chuck Yeager. Who was he and why is he important? You could spend days talking about the effect Chuck Yeager had on the world; right now, he probably gets a little sidebar in the history books. "Chuck Yeager was the first man to pilot a plane faster than the speed of sound. He named his Bell X-1 airplane, the Glamorous Glennis, after his wife." Oh boy.

[northzax]

15. actually, you have a point

we are using the same models for teaching US history that were developed in the 50's. Well guess what? we've added another 30% to US history since then, and it gets squeezed into the back end. I think that highschoolers should take four years of 'history' 1: World History 2: US History 3: US Government (ont history, but it falls into the deparment usually) and 4: an elective, focusing on one social/ethnic or religious group, outside the US. I took 5 years of history in High School, doubled up on electives senior year.

Of course, this is all more effective if you come into high school with the general basics, which all too few people do these days.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. Here's the way I'd structure the social studies curriculum, seeing

that students are even worse at geography than they are at history.

Fifth grade: State history and geography

Sixth grade: U.S. geography with highlights of U.S. history

Seventh grade: Latin America and Canada, with history, including a detailed study of the period of exploration and colonization

Eighth grade: European geography, world history to the fall of Rome (including ancient civilizations such as China and India)

Ninth grade: Asian and Pacific geography, world history to 1600

Tenth grade: African geography, world history to the present

Eleventh grade: basic political science, American history to the Civil War

Twelfth grade: basic economics, American history to the present

[Reverend_Smitty]

29. That's like what they did in my high school

Freshman year was 20th century US history, Soph was World History, I took AP European History my Jr. year and Senior year I took an honors government course which IMHO should be the model for ALL government courses across the country. It was a hands on approach to government and actually required you to do things outside of the classroom to pass like attend city council meetings or volunteer for a political campaign...it was fun and informative.

[wli]

26. it doesn't appear to me to be quite so difficult

The importance filters aren't that difficult to put in place.

Also, a US-centric view of history is a losing proposition. THis is particularly true since "foreign entanglements" have been a huge influence all along. And even more so since 230 years on North America is a rather tiny piece of the puzzle.

[Bill McBlueState]

24. I agree about the math

Students should be pretty comfortable with basic arithmetic by the end of fifth grade, but most don't see any algebra until high school. (Am I remembering this right?) The years in between are wasted.

Certainly, some students need longer to pick things up than others, but I think a student of average intelligence should be able to start tinkering with concepts from algebra in sixth or seventh grade. Then they'd be better prepared for the appropriate math in their high school natural science courses.

[Halliburton]

66. yeah algebra is the toughest transition for students to make

if students can't get a good grasp of algebra, then there is no way there are going to do well in geometry, trig, and calculus because they all involve algebra skills.

[struggle4progress]

53. One problem is that many students don't know middle school math, ..

.. and they're going to get another shot at stuff like the quadratic equation in some course with the bogus name "College Algebra."

Most don't understand unique factorization in the integers, let alone trying to understand advanced graduate number theory. And most don't understand the fractions necessary for empirical probability, let alone high-level stochastic notions.

Hardly anybody knows what to do about this. The 8th and 9th grade math bored them to tears in 8th and 9th grade, and the kids are unlikely to develop a sudden admiration for it as late adolescents. The interesting math that should be available to bright non-majors (say, elementary group theory up to the Polya-Burnside theorem and its use in combinatorial enumeration, or graph theory with applications, or a careful investigation of Gentzen-like logic) would meet with shrieks about unfair expectations. Hell, I've have students complain when I asked then to add times (2:48:37 + 1:15:32 = ?)

[wli]

68. I don't have the answers to everything

The idea that everyone will get to the same levels at the end of their HS career may be misguided, but it's still not clear to me what else to do. It's plausible that certifying what does get completed instead of making the completion of various things completely mandatory may be better than the "graduate or not" kind of standard, but I'm not even fully aware of what the consequences of that could be, or what other strategies would be useful.

Someone with a better understanding of the social and economic issues involved would be better poised to devise methods of dealing with various kinds of inabilities to go beyond some levels in the time allotted to HS and prior. There are definitely "design criteria" here that I can't devise myself and wouldn't be able to design a system to satisfy if given them by others without significant research investments.

My observations are unfortunately limited to comparing my experience against what seemed to be getting pushed through official channels (unfortunately I either can't or shouldn't clarify what that means), and that halts my involvement in this sort of affair at the boundaries of criticizing curriculum content.

[bluestateguy]

9. I can vouch for this

You should see the quality of some of these final essays I am grading.

Ugh.

[DeepModem Mom]

12. Thanks for an on-the-job assessment, bluestateguy, and for teaching. nt

[shrike]

44. We have a friend who's trying to do her part

She's gotten a job in a high school where the principal basically tells the faculty to go out there and teach. She had her (honors) kids writing, and writing, and writing. They complained bitterly -- until the day came when they outscored all surrounding districts on the annual essay tests. Now the kids brag about what a tough teacher they have.

[wickerwoman]

10. But as funding for public universities declines,

they are under pressure to accept more and more students and increase class sizes. I'll bet the statistics for students entering college has increased a great deal in the past 10 years. After all, it's not like you're going to get a job worth calling a job straight out of high school.

I taught composition at a public university for five years- all different levels back to the most remedial students accepted at the university. I saw placement exams that should have made primary school students blush to turn in. I had the worst one framed but lost it when I moved. Basically this was an 18 year old who, in an hour and half, could write barely a page about how he "dind't like reading no books". I'd swear it was a parody if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. But the boy could play football so what were you going to do?

Universities need the money so they accept students who, if they work their asses off, might be prepared for college by about their junior year. To some extent I think this is an inevitable result of more inclusive recruitment policies, a job market that demands some kind of degree and cuts in state funding for education.

[northzax]

17. and ironically

while many state systems are dumbing down, the elite private schools (And the elite state ones as well) are getting more and more exclusive. Basically the top ten Private universities and small colleges are crap shoots for admission, the upper middle class gives their children such opportunity now, that they are all superbly qualified. Basically any school on the US News top 25, for small colleges (which is what I know, I even went to one) are so much harder to get into than a decade age. in '93, applying to colleges, I got into 5 of the top 20, now, with the same pedigree, I'd be lucky to get one.

and the disparities gap increaseth.

[Demeter]

14. This Has ALWAYS Been True

Some kids don't, won't or can't mature as fast as others; some will never be able to handle college level work; and expecting something that cannot be is foolish, if not insane.

The question of mastery of each level of education is something that must be addressed on an individual level for each child, starting on day one, and used to guide the teacher, not to disqualify the child. Anything else is not equal protection, is wasteful of resources and damaging of people.

Humans are not widgets to pass or fail Quality Control, but living beings like plants and animals, to be nurtured and sustained by our collective intelligence and efforts.

[slackmaster]

18. I can vouch that it was true 30 years ago

1975. Wow.

[DS1]

16. There are graduates who still can't cobble together a coherent sentence.

For example, I got this in an email.

I forgot a X&Y members that is moving in on August 29.

[RaRa]

19. Nearly 10 years ago when I was a graduate teaching assistant in Chicago

I was blown away at the low level of reading and writing skills of the incoming freshman. I was in geography, so you can imagine some of the map test results. Apparently what we know as Great Britain is really Greece. The essays were the worst. I would say that only 10% of the students were at the university level. I would also say the first two years of college have become remedial.

[northzax]

23. just remember what Ambrose Bierce said

sums it up perfectly.

[RaRa]

40. I wouldn't doubt that if I knew what he said!

:+

[northzax]

46. "war is god's way

of teaching americans geography."

[Mizmoon]

25. What a load of crap

As if these tests mean anything ...

How are their hearts? Their creativity?

There is far more to a human being than a cold test can show. If you take the time to get to know them, get past the sullen 'I dunno' answers, you will find people of amazing depth and beauty.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

37. It's more than tests, Mizmoon

and I knew a lot of students who were wonderful as human beings.

However, the sad thing was that they were ignorant of anything that hadn't been in the popular culture in the last few years, knew they were ignorant, and didn't care. Of such are Bush voters made, among other things.

When you get college seniors who say that they "hate to read" or most of student body turning down opportunities to hear Jimmy Carter, Helmut Schmidt, Studs Terkel, and Elie Wiesel speak--the crowd was made up mostly of faculty and townspeople--or ignoring the plays, concerts, foreign and indie films, countless clubs, and even intramural sports that exist on any college campus and then complaining that "there's nothing to do"--well, you get discouraged.

When students won't even pick up their lunch trays and go into the adjacent dining room to hear a wonderful guest speaker or attend free gourmet meals cooked by foreign students, that's an attitude problem.

Once there was a spate of letters in the campus newspaper about how "boring" the college was. The writers' main complaint seemed to be that there weren't enough parties, the regulations on booze were too strict, and no big-name bands had played on campus.

I wrote a LTTE in reply, listing all the things there were to do on campus, and a student from Mexico, an intelligent and mature young man who left at the end of the year, wrote, "This is not a boring college, but it is full of boring people who can't talk about anything but celebrities, sports, fashions, and how drunk they got last weekend."

That's the real problem and the never-ending frustration for professors and instructors at the average American college. In the Ivy League, you get the dumb rich kids, but you also get some amazingly sharp, aware, and accomplished students who seem to eat challenges for breakfast.

As a veteran of that scene, I don't think that everyone should go to college, and my belief has nothing whatsoever to do with socioeconomic status or race. In fact, if I were Education Czarina, I'd keep out a lot of the pampered upper middle class fashion plates who are taking up space in colleges today and seek out students who have some real intellectual interests.

The first thing we need to do is revamp the curriculum, beginning with elementary school, so that it is challenging and interesting (especially interesting) and so that one cannot pass simply by occupying a seat. Foreign students come here and complain that they already had much of the first two years of an American college curriculum while they were in high school. So I'd advocate a firmer academic grounding in the K-12 period, which would probably leave us with more well-informed people than many contemporary college careers (e.g. graduating from high school with mediocre grades and majoring in "Corporate Health and Fitness"). After that, we could have a variety of institutions for different vocational aspirations.

[shrike]

43. You make some great points

And yes, I've heard the same thing from foreign students. I remember hearing a woman from Europe who located here and found that she could find no women friends because all they wished to talk about were the following topics: fashion, boyfriends, food, celebrities and shopping.

I agree that K-12 should be more rigorous. And, trade programs and trade schools should make a comeback. The skilled trades are good, honorable jobs that pay well. Then again, Bush may well outsource them.

[kodi]

58. yours is very similar to my teaching experiences in the late '80s

I taught both freshmen and grad courses. The frosh complained about mandatory attendance, nightly homework, and weekly quizzes.

I told them that education was the only thing that they paid for which that they did not demand fair value in the exchange.

After one semester I was told to let up on the classes by the dept head.

The grad courses were 50/50 American/foreign, about 20 kids in all. Usually only one american got an A in the class. 6-7 foreign kids got A grades.

My best friend left teaching when upon returning from his summer break found out that the dean of the school changed a grade he gave a kid from an F to a C because her dad was a big time fundraiser for the school.

Apparently, college today is less for education than it is a social rite of passage.

Every month or so I substitute teach in the local high school. Even though I have my grad degrees in chemistry, I walk into an English, history or econ class and I pick right up where the regular teacher left off and teach the lessons. The kids are learning very little from what I can see of the course work. they seem about 2 years behind what I was taught in the '60s, regardless of the class.

I have even been asked to give the DARE talks to several classes even though I had smoked some weed the night before. Imagine that?

What I do in each class is ask the kids who has the best handwriting and give that student a note that I want written on the board.

"The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be lighted." (Plutarch)

Then I explain that whatever they are learning is just practice on how to think in general and that the only way to get a sharp edge on a knife is to rub it against a hard stone.

Around these parts, most teachers make less money than prison guards.

I don't have much faith in the future. Its not what it used to be.

[Davis_X_Machina]

27. There is a quiet crisis in reading going on...

...and any high school teacher will tell you this is the case.

Like everything else, the more you do of it, the better you get at it.

And kids aren't reading much any more, so they're not getting better at it.

The number of kids you'd see with a book, an unassigned book, to kill time in a study hall, or while waiting for driver's ed to start, or whatever, is greatly reduced from twenty or fifteen years ago. It wasn't ever literature -- I saw a lot of Danielle Steele and Interview With a Vampire type stuff -- but it was reading in extenso.

I've got many kids in AP English who go an entire school year without doing any non-assigned reading, and their classmates don't think that's strange.

Granted, they're probably reading a lot more on-line, but that's a qualiitatively different kind of reading.

It must be very hard to do a major in the humanities anywhere reasonably challenging and have no experience of putting in three-four hours a day simply sitting and reading....

[northzax]

31. I was in an airport the other day

buying a newspaper, and the guy behind me in line said to his friend (mid-30's, professionals) "I read one, maybe two books a year, pick them up in airports and rarely finish them" This was no Ulysses, he was reading, not even Tom Clancy. and i'm thinking as a 30 year old professional, I read two books a week on average, one serious and one junk. 500 pages a week, minimum, and that's just how reading is built into my daily life. I can't fathom how empty a life would be if you couldn't hack 500 pages a YEAR.

[Baconfoot]

42. You should try reading more Anne Rice. You might be surprised.

[Codeine]

72. ...at how badly she writes. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. This is no surprise to people who teach in the university

I've seen 4th grade reading levels in college sophomores. Strange stuff.

[TXnWHoHatesBush]

34. Education in general...

After reading all the replies to this post I seem to detect a common thread. The children & future voters, are getting shafted by todays educational system.

But to avoid the slam down I expect allow me to pre-empt my defense. While I am not a hard core advocate for home schooling, I was forced into it by a inept educational system my youngest child was subjected to in 1999 here in TX. As a classic Spec. Ed. student he, in 7th gr., was at a 4th gr level in reading, had no clue past addition ir subtraction, and had no knowledge what so ever in the line of American History nor what "Evolution" even meant.

1st, I am not an career educator, but I was a mother. I, not unlike most mothers, did not proclaim in the delivery room that I wanted nothing more for my child then a substandard education and a life of flipping burgers for a living. I wanted the best and my taxes paid for nothing less, or so I thought. The paragraph above shows how wrong I was.

I am proud to say that after our first yr of home schooling, my son wanted to go back to "real school" because "Mom is so much harder," yet now he understands why. After his 1st six months he was reading at collage level and had taught me trig, and in his senior yr he scored higher on his SAT then the top graduating student in what would have been his graduating class had he finished at our local high school.

Imagine my surprise when I read over his records from this school, he had been labeled in 1999 by these career educators as not collage material and destined to maybe vocational training, at best.

I guess he proved them wrong.

[LeftyMom]

54. welcome to DU

:hi:

[catmandu57]

38. Higher education is returning to the elites

this was true when I was in college, true it was only a lowly state college, but, there were many people I looked at and asked what are you doing here?

There were study sessions that were so bad, group reading where I wanted so badly just to reach inside and pull the words out of whomever was reading. It was exasperating to say the least.

Now that we are on the track of perpetual war however, higher education won't be needed by the masses, and the elite can reclaim it as a birthright.

Won't that be grand? more gw's in our future, ruled by morans and the gentlmans c.

[barb162]

45. So why are the kids being passed through? Why is there

grade inflation?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

47. I don't know about other states

But here they have two different graduation programs for students. There's the college bound and the minimum requirement.

You can graduate and not have the required courses for college but be hail and hearty for the military for example.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. I blame parents

They want to make life "easy" for their kids, and they don't respect education themselves (just job training and certification), so they raise a stink with the school board and the principal if little Ryan and Caitlin don't get at least a B average. Have to maintain eligibility for sports, ya know. Oh, yes, and get into a college with a good business program.

If a teacher calls a kid on his or her bad behavior, the parent calls the principal to complain about how the teacher is persecuting Precious Baby.

Remember the family that sued their local school district because their son hadn't learned to read by age 18? How could a parent not notice this by early to mid elementary school? They might fail to notice it if they weren't readers themselves. My youngest brother had trouble learning to read, and my parents noticed when he was in first grade.

It's nothing new. Even in my day, I remember hearing parents tell their kids that they "read too much" or shouldn't be interested in "sissy" or "egghead" things like art and music. Such parents were in the minority at that time, but their numbers have increased.

One thing I notice in Japan is that even though the school system there is too high-pressured on the secondary level, it does an excellent job of teaching the basics. I've never encountered anyone who can't spell my name in Japanese phonetic characters or make change without requiring mechanical aids. General knowledge about the world is at a pretty high level, too, except for the pre-war generation, few of whom went past sixth grade.

The comment about the European woman who couldn't make friends rings true with me, too. One of my Japanese friends married an American G.I. and moved onto the base where he was stationed. Even though she was no heavy intellect herself, she found the conversations of the other military wives boring and monotonous, centering mostly on their children's habits.

America has many wonderful characteristics, but the anti-intellectualism drives me crazy at times.

[TXnWHoHatesBush]

56. Some blame falls on parents altho...

It may be the school district at fault

In my son's case he was on the honor roll every grading period, I was assured he was on tract... He was in the 7th gr and couldn't read any higher then 4th gr level and had no math skills much less History? Science tho was his saving grace, he excelled in that, what he didn't have to read about that is. Go figure... I was a single mother, who worked 2 jobs, (AG refused to help with child support so I got zip) When I remarried and was able to be a stay home mom I was pulled into reality, my son was not getting an education, period... Complaining to small town school district caused more problems then solutions so I took him out of public ed and home schooled.

Not conceding failure, the school contacted CPS, and tried to prove me a fool, it backfired,(see Education in General post)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. In general, the quality of the school district is dependent on the

intellectual sophistication of the parents.

College towns almost always have fine school systems, because a large percentage of the parents believe in learning. At the other end of the scale are towns where people say, "Our kids don't need to know any of that stuff. It'll just give them ideas."

It sounds as if you lived in one of the "dumb" towns.

I'm reminded of a child custody case that occurred in Iowa in the early 1960s. After his wife died, a man sent his young son to live with his wife's parents in Iowa until he could get resettled. When he tried to reclaim his son, the grandparents sued for custody. They had never liked the father, who was a college professor with what the grandparents thought of as a counter-cultural attitude.

The local court ruled in favor of the grandparents. I still recall the phrase they used: the father's home was ruled out because it would be "Bohemian and intellectually stimulating."

I was only in my early teens at the time, but even then I thought, "That must be one stupid town if they think that it's bad to be 'intellectually stimulating.'"

[Southpaw Bookworm]

63. How very true

I posted in another thread about a grad school classmate's story of a county that vehemently opposed a new elementary school with a second language immersion program. I could not grasp why anyone would be against learning another language.

[Catchawave]

50. No Child Left Behind is Working!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[kodi]

52. there has been a conscious undermining of education by the Right

the Right has used local tax issues to defund public education at the levels requisite to maintain US science domination and economic vitality.

they have done so for the reasoning below.

"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing." - Karl Rove

[HadItUpToHere]

65. in 1978, my ACT composite score was 33...

i aced the math section, and was in the 99th percentile in all categories.

i dropped out of college after two years, and never went back.

great predictability there.

[bribri16]

69. Leave all the children behind. Start over with the grandchildren. n/t

[cmd]

70. But, but, but, they are passing the NCLB tests.

Sure, teach the test; not the kids. Schools really have no choice in the matter. They are forced to focus all their resources on making below average ability students into above average. It's a lot like alchemy. Teachers must turn lead into gold and leave the gold undiscovered.

[Name removed]

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