Spy in the sky [I WAS RIGHT! CHINA LAUNCHED A SPY SATELLITE!]

[truthisfreedom]

in this post i mentioned that i was wondering if China launched military satellites when they sent their guy up, and...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=168694#168800
this article says they did!:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/inring.htm


Inside the Ring

    Spy in the sky
    China's first manned spacecraft did more than simply showcase Beijing's efforts for civilian space flight. The Shenzhou 5, or Divine Vessel 5, spacecraft also conducted intelligence-gathering work for China's military.
    Included on the top of the Long March 2F rocket, which boosted Shenzhou into orbit Tuesday, was a new Chinese military intelligence-gathering satellite. The satellite was placed in orbit successfully shortly after the Shenzhou began its 14-orbit mission. No mention of the satellite launch was made in the state-run Chinese press.
    Additionally, defense officials said the single-astronaut spacecraft carried an infrared camera that conducted photographic spying. The camera was mounted outside the craft and has a resolution of 1.6 meters, meaning something as small as 5 feet wide can be distinguished.
    The space spying highlights China's plans to use space for military purposes, primarily to develop missiles and sensors, and to blind or cripple U.S. communications and intelligence systems in any conflict over Taiwan.
<snip>

[ze_dscherman]

1. Must be true if the Moonie Times tells it

NOT

I would guess China has other capabilities to send up military sattelites than as additional load to a highly critical manned mission.

Just my two Eurocents.

On edit: o.K., just because the WT reported it, it need not be false.

[Dookus]

4. heheh..

yes, I'm skeptical of the WT, too. But I wouldn't find it hard to believe that China would piggy-back a spy operation with a spaceflight.

[Ozirus]

9. The 'satellite' is part of the design of the Shenzhou

Shenzhou - Divine Military Vessel

'The forward, orbital module of the Shenzhou manned spacecraft was designed to accommodate a variety of mission equipment. The orbital module remains in orbit after the service module and re-entry capsule have returned to earth. This means the mission equipment installed correspond in capability to a large unmanned satellite. Shenzhou's two different primary payloads, both of them military, were not discussed by Chinese authorities until early 2003.'


Shenzhou with ELINT antennae deployed



Everything you wanted to know about the Shenzhou spacecraft



- Ozirus -

[Resistance Is Futile]

10. More details

http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-03zzo.html

The Republican Times' 'spy satelite' is nothing more than the Shenzhou orbital module. It will stay in orbit for little more than six months before it reenters and burns up.

It's not a death star, folks....

[Wonk]

2. Fixed 1st link here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=168694#168800

[truthisfreedom]

3. thanks, wonk.

8^) fixed it too.

[Merlin]

5. Typical FAUX-like un-journalistic, non-objectivity comes shining thru.

The space spying highlights China's plans to use space for military purposes, primarily to develop missiles and sensors, and to blind or cripple U.S. communications and intelligence systems in any conflict over Taiwan.

How the hell do the moonies know what "China's plans" are? What red-baiting bastards these people are.

Btw, how exactly will they "blind or cripple U.S. communications and intelligence systems in any conflict over Taiwan" ? I don't think it's quite that simple.

[knowledgeispower]

16. This sounds to me like propaganda for "Star Wars" defense

You know, scare the people so they don't ask why the government is wasting a big fucking chunk of money on unproven technology due to a paranoid fantasy.

[MSchreader]

6. So?

Personally, I don't care if PRChina took the opportunity to launch a satellite along with their first human. First of all, the Chinese have been sending satellites into space since the 1980s (they took up some of the commercial slack after the Challenger disaster). Second, even if this was their first "spy satellite" -- which I sincerely doubt -- that only means they've joined the ranks of the U.S., Britain, Russia, France, Germany, Japan, etc., that already have such capability.

The Washington Times makes a very specific charge: "The space spying (sic!) highlights China's plans to use space for military purposes, primarily to develop missiles and sensors, and to blind or cripple U.S. communications and intelligence systems in any conflict over Taiwan." Do they offer ANY proof of this? No. Speculation, fueled by Moonie anticommunism? Seems so.

Another thing that strikes me as odd about the article is that there is no proof offered other than some anonymous source. A lot of unsubstantiated charges are made here, but no proof is offered. Who are these "defense officials" the Washington Times quotes? Wolfowitz? Perle? Elliot Abrams?

Finally, the whole argument about the Chinese space program being "closely linked" to the military is such a red herring. (Pun intended.) Virtually all state-sponsored space programs are linked to their respective country's military in one way or the other: the U.S., Russia, Japan, ESA (linked to the French and German militaries), etc. How many civilian Space Shuttle commanders and pilots have we seen over the years? Few, if any.

Martin

[bowens43]

7. China

has been putting satellites in space for years. That's not news. The article is nonsense. It's trying to paint the Chinese space program as purely militaristic.

[virtualobserver]

8. I won;t worry until they build moonbase alpha......

like we did in 1999.

[7th_Sephiroth]

11. wana see satelite and aireal photos of your house?

http://www.mapquest.com, you have to imput a big city like orlando or N.Y. to get the areal photo function tho

[GAspnes]

12. being covered on C-SPAN1 this morning, too

on Washington Journal with John Logsdon, GWU Space Policy Institute Director.

He's pretty sure it was a spy satellite, but not anxious about it.

[On the Road]

13. Well, the US Military Had a Lot to Do With the Design of the Space Shuttle

It's much larger due to the anticipated need to send military payloads into space. Of course, we don't know exactly what's been sent up because our government won't tell us.

[Occulus]

14. I'm wondering what will happen

when the X games are finished.

For those who don't know (I think this is what the contest is called), the X Games is a contest to designand launch a manned civilian spacecraft, without official input from NASA or the military.

So what happens when this comes to pass? I'm sure there are some enterprising programmers out there who would be happy to design systems to peek at what's up there...

Anyone know what the official US position is on civilian spacecraft?

[morebunk]

15. They can play the game as well as the US

We really get mad when others play and beat us at our own games..no matter how deadly the game.

[Nottingham]

17. I'm not surprised at all. The War with China is coming

This is just the beginning

Imagine America's sattelites being taken out by China

Our technology edge is slowly going away.

I predict China's space program will surpass ours in just a few years

:bounce:

[blindpig]

18. another result of our enlightened trade pollicy?

just wait until they deploy f18 clones at 1/10 of the cost. germany had the best tanks, russia built tons more, cheaper. who won?

[Fenris]

19. Until I see a credible news source confirm this story

I doubt it. And there's no doubt that they want to launch a spy sattelite, and they will too. They're ready to play with the big boys.

[WoodrowFan]

20. A couple things

first, anything in the "Inside the Ring" column is suspect, Bill Gertz has a bug up his butt about China. He's one of the nuts who says Clinton was a Chinese spy (simplification on my part) and he claims the CIA was wayyy to pro-Chinese :wtf: and soft on their 'threat.' For a while he was constantly going on about a non-existant Chinese aircraft carrier.


But if it is true, it may actally make international relations more stable. There's a lot of discussion among cold war historians (I am not one but studied with them) that "spy" satellites help ease tensions by reducing what countries with the satellites don't know about an adversary. It's harder to get panicked about a Soviet invasion of West Germany if your satellites show the Soviet tanks still parked in their garages in the Ukraine. It's when you DON'T know what the other guy is going to do that you get scared and pull the trigger to quickly.