Iraq: Women Oppose an Islamic Constitution

[sabra]

http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Politics&loid=8.0.197998581&par=0

IRAQ: WOMEN OPPOSE AN ISLAMIC CONSTITUTION

Baghdad, 17 August (AKI) - The issue of the role of Sharia Islamic law in the future of Iraq is one of the main reasons why the deadline for the first draft of the new constitution has been put back a week to August 22. "Most women are opposed to the reference to Islam and the Sharia, as the main inspiration for the new constitution," Huzan Mahmoud, one of the leaders of the Organisation for the Freedom of Women in Iraq, told Adnkronos International (AKI).

"Choosing the Sharia as the principal source of the constitution means turning the clock back hundreds of years and accepting life in a medieval society governed by clerics who consider women second class citizens with few rights who should be treated just like slaves," she said.

"Unfortunately in the current parliament the religious and backward forces are in the majority and they are trying to destabilise the country, sowing terror among the population and especially among women," Mahmoud added.

"The radical religious groups which certain western media continue to mistakenly define as moderate, are trying to impose a closed society based on Sharia, which has as its model the Islamic Republic of Iran, amid the total indifference of the foreign military forces present in Iraq," she said.

[Coventina]

1. I really fear for all Iraqis, but especially my sisters.

:-(

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Here are the questions:

1. Will Iraqui women be ALLOWED TO VOTE down the proposed Constitution if their rights are effectively and legally destroyed if it is passed?

2. If yes to #1, would Iraqi women voluntarily vote "yes" on the Constitution, knowing they are making themselves prisoners in their homes?

[etherealtruth]

3. I don't think the answers to your question are clear

To question # 1: women's votes may be legal, that unfortunately does not mean that the current "culture" will allow women to vote. Women which have never veiled are currently "being forced" into veiling.

#2, I think "voluntarily" is key here.

The US has clearly made NO provisions (and no real effort) to protect the basic human rights of women in Iraq. "We" have been rightly concerned about the rights of specific ethnic and religious groups, while ignoring 9even accepting) that women will have less rights than men!

[Marnieworld]

4. How do you say "You go girls!" in Arabic?

Iraq will be an Islamist government which will Ally with Iran after of course a bloody civil war between the Shias and Sunnis and the Kurds. Go Freedom! It's so great that we came to help them all out. Is this the "noble mission" Bush? :sarcasm:

[etherealtruth]

5. Thank you for posting this

This is a horrific possibility (I fear probability) that is getting little or no attention.

This is about denying basic human rights to half of the Iraqi population. "We" would be expressing loud and constant outrage if this were the Kurds ... (as we should), why is it largely absent here?

Recommended!

(we and us, refer to Americans and the US)

[primavera]

7. Check out Maureen Dowd's column in the Times...

Reformer Without Results
By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: August 13, 2005
WASHINGTON

President Bush has done so much for women. Not at home, of course. Women in jeans in America may have their rights eroded by an administration where faith trumps science, but women in burkas? The president can't talk enough about how important their rights are.

...

The fundamentalist Taliban is recrudescing in Afghanistan, young girls in Iraq are afraid to leave their homes because there are so many kidnappings and rapes, and women's groups in Iraq are terrified that the new constitution will cut women's rights to a Saudiesque level.

Some Shiite politicians are pushing to supplant the civil courts that have long governed marriage, divorce, child custody and inheritance with religious courts that are based on Sharia, or Islamic law. The New York Times reported that one of the crucial articles in various drafts of the constitution is: "The followers of any sect or religion have the right to abide by their religion or sect in their personal affairs, and a law should organize this."

That little provision could jeopardize any chance for women's equality. Clerics running religious courts based on the Koran could legitimize polygamy, honor killings, stonings and public beheadings of women charged with adultery, and divorce by "talaq" - where all a husband has to do is declare, "I divorce thee," three times.

Saddam repressed Islamic politics, so under him, Iraq was one of the most secular countries in the Middle East. It has become far more fundamentalist since the U.S. took over.

The back-to-burka trend has been widely reported throughout Shiite-dominated southern Iraq, and young women activists told The Los Angeles Times that their mothers had more freedom in the 60's.

To us, the "liberated" but repressive Iraq is a paradox. To the women, it's a prison.

[enigma000]

6. Women have the right to vote

The TAL which remains in force until after a new constitution is ratified by the people does give Iraqi women the right to vote & reject the consitition.

http://www.cpa-iraq.org/government/TAL.html

Article 12.

All Iraqis are equal in their rights without regard to gender, sect, opinion, belief, nationality, religion, or origin, and they are equal before the law. Discrimination against an Iraqi citizen on the basis of his gender, nationality, religion, or origin is prohibited. Everyone has the right to life, liberty, and the security of his person. No one may be deprived of his life or liberty, except in accordance with legal procedures. All are equal before the courts

Look, we both saw pictures of Iraqi women lining up to vote in last January's election. They did not strike me as the sort of women that are going to lie down and get, metaphorically, screwed over. Maybe, just maybe, if the Constitution does acknowledge Sharia law, the female half of the population will vote it down in October.

Try this article
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id...

[etherealtruth]

10. The "legal" right to vote ...

... does NOT always translate into the actual ability/ or right.

I have no doubt that there will be areas of Baghdad where women will vote (and they will taped and shown all over the world as proof of Democracy in action). We are fed carefully orchestrated propaganda, it is naive to believe otherwise.

I am VERY concerned about the rural villages and the areas that have become religiously zealous.

Do you really believe that secular women are veiling because they decided it was the "right" thing to do?

[FloridaPat]

8. The rep;ubs are trying to get rid of women's right in our country they

don't like. They did nothing for the rights of women in Afghanistan. Why would anyone think it would be different this time? As Condi even said about the issue - "we don't try to do culture changes" (or something like that).

[bribri16]

9. I believe the women were more free under Saddam

Certainly, Saddam allowed women positions in government, schools, medicine and had some of the most educated women in the ME.

[etherealtruth]

11. Ironically ...

under Saddam Hussein (and the secular Baathists), women were freer than they are in most other areas of the mid east.

I am in no way indicating that I think Saddam was not an evil tyrant, my statement is more an indictment of the treatment of women in the region.

[KDLarsen]

12. That is the biggest irony of it all....

.. in that the majority of Iraqis (ie. the women) are actually going to worse off than they were during Saddam's rule.

[etherealtruth]

13. Unfortunately true ....

Where is the outrage (here)?

[KDLarsen]

14. What the sheeps don't know..

.. the sheeps won't feel sorry for. I'm just about willing to bet that this is one piece of news you won't find in the MSM.

[etherealtruth]

15. Nominate it!

Let's, at least, get more people talking here.

[KDLarsen]

17. Done n/t

[enigma000]

16. There should be outrage

And yes, I agree, educated women being forced to wear burkas should concern us. Still, I think there is hope.

http://www.womenwarpeace.org/iraq/iraq.htm

The first post-war government was elected in January 2005 and was hailed as a success for women's political participation: women made up 31% of the new National Assembly (which will draft the new constitution), exceeding the target of 25% representation by women outlined in the Transitional Administrative Law.

The fact that 31% of the current National Assembly is made op of women does suggest that Iraqi women are prepared to fight for their rights and not just settle for third class citizenship (after men and barnyard animals)

[etherealtruth]

18. There's always hope!!!!

Let's do our part and keep some attention on this.

[ninkasi]

19. Bush and the neocons

are destroying Iraq, Afghanistan, and the United States. They are eager to now take on Iran, then Syria, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that Chimp "has no plans on his desk" to invade Venezuela, which almost certainly means we'll be drafting 10 year olds to fight in that country.

How anybody could follow, believe in, or not be completely repulsed by, this most corrupt administration in the history of our nation, is something that surprises me daily. It's still hard to believe our Dem politicians rolled over without a whimper, and allowed him to get away with what he's done.

We have been betrayed by every institution we were raised to believe in. I think that's why Cindy's vigil outside the pig farm has struck such a nerve...for so many of us, a lone woman served as an example of what it means to lead and oppose immoral policies. What a shame that the men and women, with a few notable exceptions, are paid to do what she does at her own expense, and that they fail.

[AndyTiedye]

20. The Dominion Wants To Do Exactly the Same Thing Here

[whatever4]

21. Yeah, we knew this was coming

I'm sure the women of that nation know as well. Funny thing how this Admin likes to push religious values. On this, they say so very little. It's a religious value. They talk about democracy, but I don't think I've ever heard the president bemoan how hard it is to get democracy for the women as a REAL issue. It always sounds like some silly "side" issue.

Stepford wives, stepford wives all, the women we see, on tv, supporting the men of this admin. It just amuses me, how not so different those people are from what the admin would like us to be. Womens issues mean one thing to this admin; abortion. Abortion? Only if you're naughty. We're such murders...as if.

I feel so badly for women that live there, and hopeless too. Very hopeless. Just glad not to have been born there. Glad not to have to see there, or hear there, or smell there, or see those men looking at ME like I'm some kind of trinket, with a brain that should not be and a voice that had better be quiet. I'm not sure how they survive the oppression, but of the many thousands of stories there are to be told, I could probably stomach only a handful. After a while, it's just too much, and I don't know how they manage.

Such idiotic men, I mean really. Women...left to their own devices frequently act JUST they way they want them too. I mean, really, we just aren't as pushy, and in a wholesome healthy environment, we not only have kids (as opposed to abortions), but a lot of us would have just as darn many kids as they wanted. And THAT'S what they want, these fools, they preach and teach that women are for making more babies, hopefully mostly male. And if they just let them be, complete with their clitorises and sex drives preferably, not only would more women have babies, but we'd be making more babies than then could stand. We'd fill the world with babies, there'd be so many, they'd be complaining. It's what we do. Heck, I grew up swearing I'd NEVER have kids, and I really meant it. But my biology got the better of me, and had I had my way with a life that encouraged it, I'd have had twice as many or more.

We'd fill the world with children. If they would just let us.

Instead, and this IS a blatant generalization, they ruin the world with filth and war and an inhospitable environment. Beatings, rapings, issues of marriage and abortion and all manner of control issues...when all they really want from us is sex, and babies? Gee, you know? It's what we're good at, best at, if they'd just let us...

[jbnow]

22. It has already been getting worse for women!

Even with us there women are being pressured if they don't live up (or down) to Muslim codes of dress and behavior. It will only get so much worse if this is made into law-and we did this.

It's fine to say they'll vote it down and fight but we don't understand that kind of oppression, we don't even know if they will retain that right to vote.

I've been reading little bits about this for some time. Too lazy to look for links I will use part of an article I copied to word. It's from the blog of the journalist, Steven Vincent, soon before he was killed. This is not the most relevant part to this thread, but in the same article she describes not being in garb and getting strong disapproval, and even this free spirited women gave in to avoid trouble. Nothing like being completely covered when it's 100+.

I think this is the lady who was shot with him, don't know how she is, she had been in serious condition.

But this snip really struck me about what we might owe them. Women were free, now they are much less free and soon they might have no freedom at all. I don't know what we can do about it but good Lord, we start this war that ravages there country and then we leave with 50% of them so clearly worse off for decades to come?

OK, here it is

Steven Vincent had taken his friend and interpreter, Layla, to meet an American Captain. Layla and the Captain were discussing Iraq's future.

He said "But should we really get involved in choosing one political group over another?" the Captain countered. "I mean, I've always believed that we shouldn't project American values onto other cultures--that we should let them be. Who is to say we are right and they are wrong?"

Layla's response: "No, believe me!" she exclaimed, sitting forward on her stool. "These religious parties are wrong! Look at them, their corruption, their incompetence, their stupidity! Look at the way they treat women! How can you say you cannot judge them? Why shouldn't your apply your own cultural values?"
From http://www.spencepublishing.typepad.com/in_the_red_zone/

We talk about bringing freedom, but letting religion dominate government there is going to enslave women, women who were free, and that's NOT right. It isn't OK