CNN reporting a 4th US soldier has been killed in Baghdad today

[NNN0LHI]

2 more wounded. RIP.

Don

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031017/ts_nm/iraq_blast_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

Iraq Bomb Kills U.S. Military Policeman, Wounds Two

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A bomb blast killed one U.S. military policeman and wounded two in the Baghdad area on Friday morning, the U.S. military said.

more

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=716&e=1&u=/ap/20031017/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

3 Soldiers Killed, 7 Hurt in Iraq Fight

KARBALA, Iraq - Three American soldiers were killed and seven were wounded in a midnight clash at a Shiite Muslim cleric's headquarters in this shrine city, the U.S. military said Friday. Witnesses said at least eight Iraqis also died in the fighting.

more

[Aidoneus]

1. did it happen to mention what part of Baghdad?

.

[NNN0LHI]

5. I added a link. Not much info yet n/t

[Aidoneus]

6. ah

just curious if it was tied to the recent moves against Muqtada Sadr's people in east Baghdad..

It seems that the occupation forces are starting to move against the various Sadrist factions (which are not limited to the lightning rod of Muqtada Sadr personally), the recent battle in Karbala mentioned in your 2nd link involved bodyguards of another of Sadr's father's students.

[paulk]

12. they had a bit on NPR this morning

they said the firefight involved another cleric, not Sadr. Don't know about Sadrist faction - that's the first thing I thought, too.

FWIW

[Aidoneus]

13. it was a Sadrist group, just not Muqtada's Jaish al-Mahdi

the fighters on one end were apparently the bodyguards of a student of Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr (Muqtada's murdered father), Sheikh Mahmud al-Hassani who lives in Karbala; the exchange apparently occured right outside his office. I don't know what his relationship to Sayyid Muqtada's is, if there is any, but they're of the same current. Another "Sadrist" faction that exists is run by Sheikh Yaqubi, another student of Sadr's father, though since parting paths with Muqtada I haven't heard much of him. That's three I know of, Muqtada Sadr being the strongest inheritor of his father's work and the lightning rod for press attention (perhaps more than he's due, to his benefit).

Can't find much on the latest Baghdad bomb except that it was in the "Baghdad area". figured with the move against Sadr's people yesterday there'd be some reaction today, but it doesn't seem to be. The battle in Karbala was not related except in the sense that quite a lot of them are becoming fed up and that Sadr's martyred father is the influence of several movements that oppose the occupation rather than just Muqtada's.

[morebunk]

18. First reports don't jibe with latest reports.

Whatever happens is on the Bush administration's hands no matter how they try to spin it.

The first story I heard about this was that the Iraqis were Shiite armed to protect their mosque. They ventured away from the mosque into the street in front of the mosque and US and Polish soldiers fired on them, thus the ensuing gun battle. Of course, the original story was not repeated on the news, but that is how it was presented early this morning either on one of our main news channels (cable- i don't remember which one.)

[saigon68]

24. " BRING EM ON " shrieked the smirking chimpanzee

And bring em on, did Ali Baba and his 40 guerrillas

[progressiverealist]

2. looks like they're still "bringing 'em on"

and even faster than before.

Rest is peace indeed.

[It was not a pretzel]

3. Great news!

only 4 killed, as Jim's Dad would say "this is a good news day"

/Bush positive PR bullshit off

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. Didn't they get the memo

No more bad news allowed.

[alcuno]

7. May they all find peace with God.

And to their families, may they find the strength to endure the pain and sorrow.

[catmandu57]

8. Being cynical

I wonder what will be stressed on the news tonight? Will it be the growing danger to our soldiers stuck in a quagmire? Or maybe how the numbers and frequency of americans dying for an insane vision of world domination, where control of resources, wealth, and the means to posses both is the top priority.

Or will it be the story of electricity restored to ten houses in iraqnam?
336.

[saigon68]

25. Nethercutt weighs in.

Rep. George Nethercutt (R. Wash) said yesterday that Iraq's reconstruction is going better than is portrayed by the news media, citing his recent four-day trip to the country.

"The story of what we've done in the postwar period is remarkable," Nethercutt, R-Wash., told an audience of 65 at a noon meeting at the University of Washington's Daniel J. Evans School of Public Affairs.
"It is a better and more important story than losing a couple of soldiers every day."

[diamond14]

9. and the shrub forces these guys to PAY for their last call home...

-snips-

Some American soldiers in Iraq have made heavy use of phones there to keep in touch with families back home. Now some military families say those calls have virtually stopped because of a hefty increase in phone charges.

"The guys are very upset over there," Edith Beach of Kirksville said Thursday.

Her husband is an Army reservist stationed in Baghdad. Sgt. 1st Class David Beach survived an ambush in which one of his comrades was wounded. He and his wife last spoke Monday night.

"I'm outraged that they could treat the military like this," Edith Beach said.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/29C29C76A642DFC386256DC2000F848A?OpenDocument&Headline=Military+families+protest+big+jump+in+price+of+soldiers\'+calls+from+Iraq++


BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW !!!!
October 25, 2003 BIG March in DC and SF....come join us !!!!

http://www.internationalanswer.org/

[Beetwasher]

10. There's a more sinister reason for this

The less phone calls home, the less bad news gets out...

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

19. one weekend a month

[TNOE]

11. This morning there was a scroll on Fox

(local channel) that 4 soldiers FROM KENTUCKY were killed. Wonder if these are the same? I live in Northern Kentucky.

[TNOE]

21. What I'm wondering is

were the 4 from Kentucky - or is the local news reporting 4 from Kentucky and these guys were from somewhere else. Wonder if soldiers are being reporting locall but not being counted in total. If that makes sense. ANybody know?

[Flying_Pig]

14. Having lived through the Vietnam War era, this reminds me so much

of then. I get up in the morning, prepare my French roast, and sit down to the news. Then, as now, I read about the deaths occuring on a daily basis, yet it seems so far away, and so disconnected as to seem surreal. A haze of death. Do we know their names, where they're from, what their families have to say about their demise? No, and on purpose.

The nightly news is filled with Kobe, or the (p)resident' latest circle-jerk of propaganda. They don't want us to connect to those who are dying, because if we did, it might become all too real to us as we shovel our Wheaties down. It would no longer become the neat and tidy little war they sold us. It would show them for the liars and fascists they are. Couldn't have that!

So here I sit this morning, wondering whose brother was killed, who's brother or sister just lost a leg, just like I did during Viet Nam. It seldom hits any of us, unless we actually know someone that's over there. During Vietnam, it really hit me, when the very best friend I ever had, was torn apart and blown to bits in a jungle battle. He came home OK, ... in a box. Then, there were other friends and schoolmates, who came home, but their souls had been stolen, and they would never be the same. Most were dead in ten years, from suicide, or drug and alcohol abuse.

Welcome to war.

We can hardly be expected to "feel" this war, given the daily infusions of propaganda and lies, and because they deny us the true picture of the human suffering, on both sides, that is happening. Modern warfare. Neat, clean, and tidy, as long as you're not the one doing the fighting.

And so, the casualties mount, the hospitals fill with maimed and injured. Excuse me, but I've got Wheaties to eat, ...and then perhaps throw up.

[diamond14]

15. at least we stood up and protested....today's young are just

going like sheep to the slaughter....there is little activism (patriotism) amongst today's college students....

being old and working on all the major DC protests, I can tell you that young people are NOT there...

my cousin, Charlie, was killed in Vietnam, 19 years old, silver star, purple heart, the USA forbid 19 year olds from voting at the time Charlie died for the USA....

the horror of the Iraqi/Afganistan conflicts doesn't seem to impact today's young people....they are not helping stop it, they don't vote (despite the horrific fight waged by us old people, so 19 year olds COULD vote), and there are few that are standup even NOW for the October 25th March to bring our troops home...

today's young will spend hours on DU arguing about the draft on this board and how they will never get drafted...but Charlie said he wouldn't kill anyone also, and the military still dragged him out of his home, said OK, we'll make you a medic...so Charlie died as an HM3 sailor, attached to the Marines, he was saving other people's lives...the silver star is a medal of valor...

today's young men will NOT get out of the upcoming draft, they are easily tracked on computers from the time they were born and the USAPatriot Act was put in place to assure their service...many will wonder why they didn't get up and protest while there was still time...

[Flying_Pig]

17. It's because there is no draft, ..yet. I am sure many feel that, hey, they

volunteered. The draft is coming though. Re-enlistments will be nil, and PNAC's expansion plans call for a lot more bodies. Of course, they'll wait until after the 04' elections, but if Bush wins, it's draft time! Then we'll see how many kids remain tethered to their video games, and how many will march against these illegal wars. Shame it takes that, to get them off their butts.

[Rose Siding]

16. If even cnn is willing to report 4,

you have to wonder how many there really are. Or maybe Bush has just ticked ALL the nat'l reporters off bad enough to get real with his bypassing them to local media.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

20. total 336 U.S. deaths--total 1846 wounded

Why did CNN report the number of U.S. deaths as 101 total?
propaganda or outright lies?

The real total is 336 U.S. troops killed

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Summary.aspx

[Mr. Brown of MD]

23. 101 is pure spin

Some time around when it looked like the number of soldiers killed in Iraq was going to end up passing 365 - I think it may have been when there was 250 or so on Iraqometer, or perhaps even a little less - they started spinning the numbers of people killed.

At first the spin was just reducing the number to American fatalities, and not counting the British ones. Then they spun it as "combat deaths", which I think means someone killed in an actual battle rather than blown up on the road. And that was spun further, "combat deaths since May 1", with May 1 being the day of Bush's "mission accomplished" crapola. I think they might spin it further still by calling it "deaths from hostile fire", but I'm not sure if 'hostile fire' and 'combat' are used interchangably or what.

IMO it is a blatant way to try to keep people who don't pay as much attention as we do from realizing just how many of their countrymen are being killed, or wounded, in Iraq. 386 soldiers killed, almost two per day, just isn't something the American people should be hearing about, don't you know.

Damn, pissed off and I haven't even been up for 45 minutes. I intensely dislike the assholes who brought this all upon us.

-CollegeDude
Referring to neocons exclusively

[TNOE]

29. Actually - looks like 391 now

http://lunaville.org/warcasualties/Details.aspx

[ErasureAcer]

36. i thought we just passed 1,000 wounded like a month ago

holy shit...that number has soared.

[kalazh]

22. Bring them home

[Barrett808]

26. This incident in Karbala looks like very bad news

These are by no means "Saddam loyalists". We may have just seen the first shots in the Shia uprising.

[diamond14]

28. my fear is that something REALLY big is coming to our soldiers...

where lots of soldiers are KILLED all at once, like Beirut....

way back in May, there were just unsuccessful attempts to kill our soldiers, then grenades were thrown out windows at our troops, then the road bombs became popular (most unsuccessful), then the road bombs become much more advanced & set off from a distance at the exact correct time, then car bombs with huge amounts of explosives, and surface-to-air missles shot at rummy's jet as it took off from baghdad....

these attacks are getting much more sophisticated...other arab countries are pouring tons of money and equipment into the effort (bush* has let them all know, that they're next...so the whole middle-east is very anxious for Iraq to throw our troops out)...

I fear a much bigger attack....our troops are just sitting ducks over there...BRING THEM HOME NOW!!!

[Barrett808]

30. Yes, something big is coming

The first UN bombing was pretty big, but I'm imagining something along the lines of destroying a whole oil-loading dock...or an assault on Bremer's palace...

[diamond14]

31. and with hiring and arming saddam's old regime...the attack

may well come from within....the cooks, the police, the local delivery guys, the drivers....the enemy is among our soldiers who don't even understand the language....

bush* is asleep at the wheel....

[TNOE]

27. Another Killed and 2 Wounded in Baghdad

http://www.centcom.mil/CENTCOMNews/Casualty_Report.asp?CasualtyReport=20031016.txt


October 17, 2003
Release Number: 03-10-16C


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


ONE 220th MP BDE SOLDIER KILLED, TWO WOUNDED IN IED ATTACK

BAGHDAD, Iraq – One 220th Military Police Brigade soldier was killed and two were wounded in an improvised explosive device attack in the Baghdad area at approximately 7:50 a.m. Oct. 17.

The wounded soldiers were taken to a nearby medical facility for treatment.

The soldiers’ names are being withheld pending next-of-kin notification.

The incident is under investigation.

[Randi_Listener]

32. More soldiers wasted

and * fiddles while Rome burns.

[Emillereid]

33. Here's the Al-Jazeera link on the story

Four US soldiers, 2 Iraqi policemen killed

Four US soldiers together with two local police officers have been killed in two separate resistance attacks in Iraq.





The fiercest attack was in the central Iraqi city of Karbala, where three US soldiers and two Iraqi policemen were killed in an overnight ambush.



Another US soldier was killed and two more wounded in an explosion on Friday morning in capital Baghdad. ....



<snip>


"The attackers, who are bodyguards of religious leader Mahmud al-Hassani, used rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47 rifles. They were about 20 to 30 attackers," the US army spokesman said....

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E99983FE-310E-4CCD-A474-C01BE1F89CFD.htm

Is this the good news the Bushits had in mind in their latest propaganda effort?

[DeaconBlues]

34. The lack of coverage by the cable news networks is disgusting

Four soldiers die and many more injured, and this news gets a mention on the ticker or a five-second blurb. Meanwhile, they spend hour after hour on Kobe Bryan and some schmuck who caught a baseball.

I urge everyone to write the networks and tell them what unprofessional bastards they are.

[alcuno]

35. And the "clock resetting" is equally vile.

Now the number is set at "100 combat deaths since May 1." Next we'll have to hear "50 combat deaths since the 2nd Tuesday in August."