Dean: Big deficit suits Republican's plans

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=716&e=22&u=/usatoday/20031017/ts_usatoday/11907938

Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean accused Republicans on Thursday of running up the federal budget deficit so they can undermine the fiscal underpinnings of Medicare and Social Security.

"I think their principal motivation is to undo the pillars of the New Deal, particularly Medicare and Social Security, by making the budget deficit so big that those programs can't be sustained," he said at a lunch with USA TODAY and the Gannett News Service.

Republican spokeswoman Christine Iverson said fighting terrorism has fueled the deficit and called Dean's remark "disturbing."

In an economic plan he released Thursday, Dean made balancing the federal budget a top priority. He argued that fiscal discipline would help create jobs and restore cuts in government aid. But he didn't list specifics on how he'd balance the budget.

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[JNelson6563]

1. On the money

starving the gubberment is all part of the plan. Glad to see Dean addressing this in his usual forthright manner.

Julie

[knowledgeispower]

28. this is why dems must make it a national security issue

Deficits are bad for our security, plain and simple. Right now the deficit is approaching 5% of the GDP, the point at which many foreign creditors will seriously think about stopping the cash flow out of fear that their investment won't be returned.

Also, China now practically owns the U.S. government since they are our biggest source of funding in terms of the deficit.

The dems need to push the idea that deficits are simply VERY BAD, and then they can not only pay down the deficit, but if they do a good enough job they can make sure that it will never be politically viable to engage in deficit spending again. Sort of like how the Republicans have made it impossible to raise taxes without commiting career suicide.

[huckleberry]

2. As usual, Dean nails it!

This is of course the objective of the repubs, to abolish the federal government and privatize everything. I'm glad Dr. Dean is speaking out on this!

[Brucey]

3. Exactly!

That is also why the Bush admin does not want to make the payments to Iraq a "loan." They don't want the money paid back. They want to squeeze the budget so Americans will have to accept a roll-back in domestic social programs that rich people don't care about.

[dArKeR]

4. Dean doesn't go far enough. Call Bush a sucking idiot, liar and criminal.

Call for the SEC Harken papers to be released. Prove Junior is a liar!

[shanti]

5. yes

suck the money out, and the programs collapse. preach, dean! i like the last sentence in the story, "... "I'm insufferably right," he said, laughing. "The motto of my campaign is: 'I told you so.' "

hee hee!

[oc2002]

6. Dean is on target, but is anyone listening?

Although its not a 'sexy' issue, deficits that is, its going to be a huge problem sooner than most people expect.

An excelent article today on NYT by editorialist and economist P.Krugman is just perfect for any Democratic presidential candidate to pick up and use in his campaign.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/17/opinion/17KRUG.html
THE SWEET SPOT - P.Krugman
..excerpt..
" One answer is to explain that the administration's tax cuts are, in a fundamental sense, phony, because the government is simply borrowing to make up for the loss of revenue. In 2004, the typical family will pay about $700 less in taxes than it would have without the Bush tax cuts — but meanwhile, the government will run up about $1,500 in debt on that family's behalf.

George W. Bush is like a man who tells you that he's bought you a fancy new TV set for Christmas, but neglects to tell you that he charged it to your credit card, and that while he was at it he also used the card to buy some stuff for himself. Eventually, the bill will come due — and it will be your problem, not his."

[JNelson6563]

7. well I know about 400 more who will be

listening real soon if not now. Here in our little burg the Lear plant will close by July. 400 good paying, union jobs, gone. I have a feeling the economy will be important to every one of them and the millions more like them across the country.

Julie

[Jonte_1979]

8. Hi oc2002!

Welcome to DU!:toast:

[Gin]

9. Right on target Dean,,,You have my vote!

gin

[snippy]

27. Excellent analogy.

[Guaranteed]

29. When he's the Dem nominee, they'll have to listen.

And then they'll see the light ;)

[BobF]

10. Whenever I start to feel a bit depressed about our current situation...

I imagine the Presidential Debates next year, with the Chimp being verbally tossed about by Dr. Dean!

And then I feel a WHOLE lot better!

Go Dean!

[Guaranteed]

30. I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I constantly imagine Dean just tearing Bush apart.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

42. I do too...and it makes me concerned for

Dean's safety.

There are too many conservative extremist creeps out there. I hope Dean has good people watching out for him.

[Serial Mom]

11. PNAC documents?

Is it implied somewhere in the PNAC documents that they want to undermine and rid the US of most social programs?


I would like Dean to tell the spinwoman Christine Iverson that the people who came up with the PNAC are "distrubing". I would ask her questions as to why things seem be be working the way the "groundhog dick" and his cronies developed and signed all those years ago?

[zorbasd]

12. Repug's 2004 campaign defense

"The deficit was caused by the war against terrorism, not the administration's economic policies."
The question is, will the Democrats be ready and able to respond to this utter gOP talking point B.S. effectively?

zorbasd

[Qutzupalotl]

50. Good question.

How about saying it was caused by massive, irresponsible tax cuts for the wealthy, an unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq, and presidential thumb-twiddling while US jobs went overseas?

[Mel]

13. Notice how Christine

didn't say what Dean said was untrue she said it was "disturbing"
You know, it doesn't matter if the Repukes admit it or not it will still be the result.

So they can pout, blame others, and cry all they want about how unfair it is that someone is pointing out the truth but it isn't going to make the fact of the matter go away!

Good for Dean, calling a spade, a spade!

[Flubadubya]

16. Dean's comment is "disturbing" alright...

It is most disturbing because it is true. Dean is just now pointing this out, but once I realized how extreme right-wing this administration really is, I knew that they would try to bring down Social Security and Medicare. My Dad has been saying this about Republicans for years.

I used to (and some of his friends still do) make light of his view that the Republicans have ALWAYS had as one of their primary goals, the dismantling of the New Deal policies. I now know he has always been right.

What these idiotic Rethugs don't realize, is that to destroy these programs will also mean the death of this country. If they have their way, this country will become just another third-world wasteland. :grr: :mad:

[Demobrat]

14. God I love this man.

And I fear for his safety more and more every day.

[michaud]

60. absolutely right

we should bend our knees and pray for Dean and all our other candidates, because we know in our hearts the Bush Regime has been assasinating and impeaching our candidates for years.

[librechik]

15. Dynamite--

and Dean just lit the fuse

[wtmusic]

17. Rate it a 5

[Upfront]

18. Once Again Dean Leads

To bad this never seens to change. Again, where are the other Democratic candidates? Give um hell Howard!

[w4rma]

47. Darn straight! Give 'em hell, Howard! (n/t)

[Marnieworld]

19. Paul Krugman just wrote a Long article about this in the NYT

He's a Princeton Professor of Economics mind you so it's based on hard evidence, many sources, and lots of data. Also they must have totally heard this from the NYT piece before Dean said it but they spin it as "disturbed" as some liberal paranoid delusional fantasy instead of analysis based on many conservatives stated goals. It's very true and many republicans would tell you that is the goal "small government" yada yada yada. Dean should respond by quoting the repubs, heritage etc. and say that they are out of touch with their base or their own intellectuals etc. It's the whole basis of trickle down-economics. I think it was titled the "tax-cut Con" or something like it. I love Krugman.

[underpants]

24. "Starve the beast"ers use "Supply siders" as a tool

If you are talking about the same article Krugmen points out that no one really believes that supply side economics will work (except the 'true believers'). The Starve the beasters let the Supply siders do the groundwork for them. They (Starvers) want to get rid of not only SS and Medicaid/Medicare tu everything except"national defense" which is the only direct power given to the Feds in the Constitution, they say. They just can't come out and say it because they would never get elected again and they know it.

[Marnieworld]

32. Yup that was the article

It was a great one. it really articulated the whole thing very succinctly.

[underpants]

39. Yeah I wasn't aware that even some of them see Supply siders as naive

'Useful idiots' I believe the phrase is.

[phillybri]

20. Great call....

:kick:

[bearfan454]

21. Dean is on the money on this one.

The quicker they can bankrupt the country the quicker they can get rid of Social Security and Medicare. These crooks have no shame at all. None of them.

[ameriphile]

22. Dean tells it like it is

And the Bushies' "fighting terrorism" excuse is tired and pathetic lie.

Go get 'em, Howie!

[denverbill]

23. Exactamundo Doc. Is all spelled out in Grover's playbook.

If anyone doubts you, just show them the exact words of good old Grover.

[tokenlib]

25. I've waited a long time to hear this....

Dean expressed what many of us have known for a long time. Bush and his cronies are trying to turn the dream of Grover Norquist into our nightmare.

If only some of our other candidates would echo these sentiments. In the end this campaign is a political war to save Social Security and Medicare from the demolition plans of Bush and the GOP. I'd like to hear this truth about the Bush/GOP economic scheme repeated over and over again until next November.

Way to go Howard Dean!!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. Many many people have said this before Dean

it's hardly a great, original insight. It is scary to me that anyone here thinks Dean has made one.

[Larkspur]

36. As a single and child-free taxpayer who did not get a tax cut and

would refute Kerry on this, Dean is the only one adamant about getting our deficit back under control. Kerry, Lieberman, Edwards, Gephardt and Clark lip sync ideas that they think people, especially those ever elusive "swing voters" want to hear, but Dean tells the hard truth and offers reasonable solutions.

Krugman's op ed explained to me why I didn't get a tax cut and why Kerry bashes Dean's position on repealling all of Bush's tax cut because it would hurt only a narrow band of voter -- the married and childed middle class. The rest of us are unimportant to Kerry et al. The only thing that Krugman left out was the state and local taxes increasing at a rate higher than what the middle class got in Fed tax cut. That has been Dean's counter argument to Kerry and the Repukes over his position to repeal all of Bush's tax cuts.

[Skwmom]

38. You're wrong. All of Dean's thoughts are original. He's a genius.

Reading this thread is like listening to the local Bush supporters. To get this nonsense from both the left and right is too much for a person to take.

[sendero]

43. no one said it was original...

... which other Dem candidate has had the guts to say it?

That's what I thought.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

44. I think Dean had to say it because it is not clear he is in this camp

whereas Senator Kerry has spent his whole life fighting this inevitable battle.

[snippy]

31. The Alpha Tax Cut Monkey wants to "drown it in the bathtub."

To Norquist, who loves being called a revolutionary, hardly an agency of government is not worth abolishing, from the Internal Revenue Service and the Food and Drug Administration to the Education Department and the National Endowment for the Arts. "My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years," he says, "to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub."

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20010514&s=dreyfuss

[Qutzupalotl]

51. Then let's reduce Grover Norquist's ego

to the point where he drowns himself in the bathtub.

[snippy]

57. The democrats should try but they won't.

The democratic party never tries to define the republican party whereas the republican party spends millions of dollars and employs hundreds of people to define the democratic party.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

33. Bingo!!!! Just as Dixiecrat Zell Miller!!!!!!

.

[Julien Sorel]

34. Yep. And Dean's the guy who will finish the Republicans' work for them.

They've slashed revenue to the bone, now all they need is someone like Dean on our side of the fence to keep arguing in favor of 'fiscal responsibility,' and the path to slashing the budget is greased. Dean is a Republican wet dream in more ways than just his electability, unfortunately.

[quaker bill]

45. We already have a fiscally irresponsible president.

If you favor that sort of policy, no need to change.

I particularly enjoyed Dean on CNBC yesterday talking on the resolution for $87 Bn for Iraq.

First he said he would not vote for the 87 billion. He said he would not do it because it is not paid for with taxes. He said he would support the troops if it was paid for.

"If Bush* truly supports our troops then he will find a way to pay for it." He will ask the rich folks, who support him, and who he gave the tax breaks to come up with the money.

Fiscal responsibility to Dean is just what it sounds like, taking responsibility for your spending choices. It is simple integrity.

The days of borrow and spend repugs has to come to an end. Liberals need to understand this as well. If we want meaningful change, we are going to have to pay for it. That means taxes, and we should not run away from them anymore.

Assaulting the repugs on their borrow and spend policies is one of our best weapons for 2004. You would not be suggesting that we lay down on this? Right?

[ozone_man]

35. Dean gives us the meat, again.

Is he keeps at it, Bush's support will cave. This is stuff that we all know, it just has to be said forcefully by someone like Dean, who can articulate the message.

[arwalden]

37. DEAN... You're Reading My Mind. I've Always Suspected This...

... but thought it sounded too silly (too paranoid, too unrealistic) to actually say out loud or TYPE OUT in a message here. I would only be ridiculed and flamed.

-- Allen

[kwolf68]

40. YES

Howard is on a roll this week in my eyes. This is precisely the Republicans plan.

When deficits were run up under Raygun, the right blamed "big government", "socialism", the Great Society and New Deal.

Since Clinton decreased it and now Bush is once again blowing our books up, they can't lay blame on the Liberals anymore. We've been out of power for 20+ years.

At the end of the day, the right understands that to eradicate these social programs they hold in such high contempt you either A) Convince the people they need to go (can't be done), or B) Make the program so unstable, so unmanageble that arguments can be made for drastic measures (curtailing spending).

No doubt in my mind, Dean is 100% right on this one.

If he was 100% against the death penalty and was comparable to Kerry/Edwards/DK/even Holy Joe on the environment, I'd love this guy--even with his (what I think is) horrible view on gun control.

[RedEarth]

41. Here's a link to Paul Krugmans article...it's a must read..!!!!!!!

Below is a link to Krugmans article that in essence is saying the samething that Dean has mentioned. It's an excellent article that will give some scary insight to the minds of this dangerous admin.


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/14/magazine/14TAXES.html?ex=1066536000&en=120613a5fcf65539&ei=5070

[Fovea]

46. Too bad for Christine Iverson

That the Grosser Nosetwist quote is a matter of public record.

[dbt]

48. Just a year ago anyone who said something like this

Would have been branded a lunatic, a "conspiracy theorist" or worse. We are through the Looking Glass now, aren't we?

(Right ON, arwalden!)
:bounce:
dbt

[NewYorkerfromMass]

49. This is been what we've been fighting ever since Reagan

there is nothing new here or revolutionary in Dean's staement. Every traditional Democrat has been saying the same thing for 20 years.
Note to Dean: Welcome aboard!

[Qutzupalotl]

52. Not quite.

Republicans have been wanting to cut entitlements for a long time, but for the purpose of lowering taxes.

This is a recent twist, to cut taxes first and use the swelling deficit as an excuse to end entitlement programs.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

53. That's been the goal and everyone knows it.

nothing new.

[Qutzupalotl]

54. If everyone knows it, where are the other candidates on this?

Seems like a useful wedge issue against the Republicans.

[Sideways]

55. And The Point Of Your NaySaying Posts Is What Exactly?

I hear what you're saying I'm just not sure why you think it is important. What exactly are you positing here? AND WHY?

[Terran]

56. "Republican spokeswoman Christine Iverson..."

said fighting terrorism has fueled the deficit and called Dean's remark "disturbing."

Shoot, it's not like a lot of repugs don't openly admit that this is exactly their strategy. Maybe not elected ones, but the ones in the trenches who have some insight into neoconservative strategy know it, and say it. Disturbing? Damn right it's disturbing, I'm glad you think so too Christy.

[MGKrebs]

58. That link doesn't work for me, but

try this one:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=716&e=22&u=/usatoday/20031017/ts_usatoday/11907938

[Wickerman]

59. glad to see him come out and say it

like him, love him, heis good at getting the message across that Bush is a dangerous idiot and that he will NOT stop running so its time to take the scissors from his little hand.