In Iraq, some servicemembers live like princes while others sleep in the s

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=18133

When Pfc. Alan Shaffer wakes up each morning in his camp near the Tigris River, he looks up and sees the stars. He grabs an MRE for his morning chow; for a toilet he uses a slit trench in the grassy field not far from where he sleeps. A shower to wash off the sweat? Only in his dreams.

Shaffer and his infantry buddies from Company A of the 173rd Airborne Regiment’s 1st Battalion, 508th Infantry Regiment live in the yard of a village water plant in north- central Iraq. The two open, concrete buildings aren’t safe to live in, so the soldiers sleep outdoors in a chigger-infested yard ringed with barbed wire.

The neighborhood, a hotbed of Saddam loyalists, isn’t terrific, either.

The run-down water plant is the 11th camp Shaffer has called home since his unit parachuted into northern Iraq in April.

“We always move into the worst sites and fix ’em up,” said Shaffer, 20, of Monroe, La. “Then we have to move on.”

Isn't the 173rd the guys SoCalDem supplied some of us the addresses of soldiers we've been sending care packages to? No wonder these poor guys need it and this is inexcusable that KB&R are ripping the taxpayers off and these guys still don't have hot meals, showers, air-conditioned barracks, etc.

[Uzybone]

1. Bremer and co live in the palaces

relaxing and chilling in the same places were people were tortured and made to disappear. And they wonder why the Iraqis are suspect.

[tom_paine]

8. Of coruse they do...would any self-respecting Imperial Viceroy

do any less?

And I have no doubt that Saddam's Torture Chambers, if they haven't reopened already, will within 2 years reopen "under new management".

[atreides1]

2. Yes

This was the unit that SoCalDem supplied the addresses for. My wife and I sent out care packages to two of the troops on the list. We were happy to get a thank you from one of them, so far we've heard nothing from the other one.

Yesterday we sent PFC Wauchope some sports magazines, and we intend to send him another care package by the end of this month.

[RamboLiberal]

4. I also send packages to PFC Wauchope

and sent to another guy. Will be sending out another package Monday. I'm gonna make another appeal to my coworkers and get some more stuff. Be sending them the part of the Stars N' Stripes story about our guys living conditions and the pics SoCalDem posted.

[atreides1]

5. Good Deal

The other soldier we sent a package to, was a PFC Knight. Like I said we have not heard from him.

We hope that he's doing well, and that nothing has happened to him.

[Wickerman]

25. numerous care packages went out to my nephew

who was in Iraq from the beginning to Early June. He received almost nothing. Stuff mailed from Feb on never made it to him. He got letters fine, but no packages. My daughter, who got her entire school to write to him and her class to send him nice stuff is very sad and still asks his mother (my sister) if he has received the stuff (now should be forwarded to Germany). Sad state. Thats what happens when you privatize.

[atreides1]

26. Is PFC Knight

your nephew?

Yes it is what happens when you privatize. When I was in the Gulf during Desert Storm the military was responsible for its mail and supply/logistical services.

Tell your nephew that we're glad that he's safe.

[Wickerman]

32. Thanks, we hope he stay home

but he is so ate up by it all that even though he is newly married he wants to get back with his unit. He disagrees with our role there, but loves what he does. Nope, not PFC Knight.

It was such a relief to get him back - his job is high risk and he has seen a lot of shit.

[underpants]

3. REMF's

Not that I was ever in a war but those in the rear always live it up, even IN garrison. Generals don't tend to "rough it"too much.

Forty miles downstream in Saddam’s hometown of Tikrit, Spc. Dennis Kerr also lives in a camp overlooking the Tigris. But his digs are quite different.

Kerr, 20, of Sparks, Nev., plays trumpet in the 4th Infantry Division band. When he wakes up on his cot, in air-conditioned comfort, he sees an elaborate crystal chandelier and he pads across a marble floor to a latrine with gold-plated fixtures. Then he eats a plate heaped with bacon or sausage and scrambled eggs, topped off with fresh fruit and chilled juice in a Kellogg Brown & Root chow tent.

“I don’t want my soldiers coming up here,” said one senior commander in the 101st Airborne Division, surveying the swimming pool at the “Screaming Eagle” headquarters at a palace in Mosul. “I don’t want them to see how good the division staff has it.”

[karlschneider]

6. What the hell is a military BAND doing over there??????

:grr: :eyes:

[tlcandie]

7. Shouldn't they be here playing Taps for the dead soldiers?

:shrug:

[Tinoire]

12. Honest answer?

Dick-head officers always thought that bands cheer up the troops.

This is their wisdom from time immemorial. You've really got me on where they picked up that gem. The officers and enlisted people live in 2 starkly different worlds. It's really a crying shame.

[underpants]

16. Yeah nothing gets the heart a racin' like Sousa

The band????

When I read that I couldn't believe it. I think they primarily do office work and are command drivers but I'm not sure.

[starroute]

9. What happens when the rainy season comes in?

The rainy season in Iraq starts in November, with a potential for sudden downpours and flash flooding. Are they still going to be sleeping out under the stars with that going on?

By January, nighttime temperatures in most of Iraq go down to the low 40's or high 30's, and they occasionally dip below freezing even in Basra. The north of Iraq is colder, with snow at times in Mosul and heavy snowstorms common in the mountains.

It doesn't sound as though the troops are ready for any of that. Do they even have winter uniforms?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/climate.htm

[RamboLiberal]

11. Bet they don't have winter stuff

I'm already thinking of warm items I can send. I've seen letters that as their uniforms wear out their families have been asked to get them the proper uniforms at their own cost and ship to them. This is f'ing outrageous.

I hang out at gun clubs weekends for shoots where a lot of the guys are vets including some Vietnam vets. And when I tell them this stuff you can see these guys who vote Repub fuming. Many of them are rethinging Iraq and thinking we're dumping money in to a black hole. I'm hoping this mistreatment of the troops wake these guys up.

[underpants]

17. I think KBR will hand out $1,500 ponchos

Or at least that is what KBR will charge..........US!

[DuctapeFatwa]

10. The US does not disappear and torture people in Saddam's palaces

Americans build their OWN concentration camps and torture chambers.

At long last, the Iraqis can sleep soundly at night, knowing that when the door is kicked in and their families seized for "interrogation," it will not be by Saddam's thugs but by Americans.

Yet to hear some of them talk, you'd think they weren't even grateful for being liberated.

[bobthedrummer]

13. Truth Serum and Torture

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/060402a.html

The Homeland way to truth, justice and democracy in Gitmo.

[Iraq_Vet_For_Peace]

14. Know my place here

I know i'm new to this great site, but please don't characterize our troops as building concentration camps and being thugs. Yes things are bad over there, but the last thing our men and women are doing is running a Gulag. Most of them are scared kids and people dearly missing thier families. Please draw the distinction between the troops and the administration.

[atreides1]

18. You're Right...

The down side is that some of the troops have already violated the Geneva Convention, and the Laws of War. Most of the violations seem to be coming out of the area controlled by the 4th ID.

A true distinction can only be drawn when the first brave soldier say no to an illegal order.

I understand that they're scared, hell I was scared when I went to Desert Storm, and I was 31 years old, definitely not a kid.

Not to lessen the point but their age and the fact that they miss their families is no excuse for obeying orders that are illegal.

And as long as this administration does nothing, and the chain of command keeps up the rhetoric of dehumanizing the Iraqi people, and
failing to punish Brigade commanders who hold as hostages the family members of former Iraqi Army generals, the blame will be put on those
that are on the ground, as well as the puppets in command, and at the Pentagon.

By the way welcome home, hopefully your comrades will be returning also, but I doubt it.

Gilbert C. Gordon
Sgt US Army
1978-1991

[DuctapeFatwa]

23. Each individual soldier decides which orders to obey

Every individual, in my opinion, is ultimately responsible for his or her decisions. While he who gives the order is solely responsible for giving it, he who obeys it is solely responsible for his own actions.

If they are religious, they are responsible to God, whether they are or not, they are responsible to their own conscience, their own values, their own moral standards.

Throughout history, people, including soldiers, have made individual choices to obey or disobey orders or instructions.

Just like the soldier with his order, no one can tell you what you should believe on this question. Nuremberg says one thing, but you are your own person.

The argument that military orders should always be obeyed is best made by those who include orders to harm their own family members.

You are the only one who can say if you are a good choice for making that argument.

[Magleetis]

24. Did you happen to watch

Fronline last week. A group of soldiers destroy an Iraqis car and laugh about it. What is your definition of a thug?

Check out Truth, war and Consequences

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/

[9215]

15. Julius Caesar

lived in the same conditions as his troops. He ate what they ate, slept on the open ground and subjected himself to all of his troops privations. His troops loved him for it.

To bad he became the first emperor.

Alexandar the Great literally led his troops into battle and lost an eye in the process.

Let's hope these war stories will inspire a new generation to question authority and not be lost in quaint little homilies spewed by faith based warmongers.

[tlcandie]

19. And everyone wonders about fragging and suicides? Maybe

the troops in Iraq see the reality of the this admin, the military, this world more clearly than we do and they don't want to be a part of it anymore?

If you aren't willing to be on the front lines and live among them, then don't send them out to do YOUR dirty work that you won't be bothered with!

Great line there 9215...snipped it
Let's hope these war stories will inspire a new generation to question authority and not be lost in quaint little homilies spewed by faith based warmongers.

[9215]

27. Thanks, Hadn't thought about fragging

I wonder if that is going on in Iraq?

[ConcernedCanuk]

20. __ I should have asked before - how would I send something

. . to your beleagered troops ?

is there an outfit here in Canada that would send whatever ?

I'm sure there is but have no idea how to find out -

suggestions anyone ?

I'm sorta kicking myself for not asking months ago

[Don_G]

21. The Biggest Problem Is Privatization

Fat contracts were handed out to supply the GI's over there. The trouble is that they're civilians and have no business in a war zone unless they're well protected.

The REMF's get everything and the troops serving in hostile areas get only what dribbles their way.

Hell of a way to run a war, isn't it?

[0007]

22. During the Korea War

it was pretty much the same way, so nothing in reality has changed much.

[chrisesq]

28. Same Shit, Different War

I was in the first Gulf War at the age of nineteen and the descriptions here are virtually the same.

I was a front line medic attached to an armor unit and during the entire deployment I was in the most forward units. Before the actual fighting began, occasionally we would be able to go to the "rear" to pick up "luxury" items from the PX that was stationed closer to civilization.

That is where all of the upper brass (and their support) stayed and boy did they have it good. Phones supplied by AT&T so they could call home whenever they wanted, air conditioners and heaters, refrigerators, 3 hot A-Rat. meals a day (of course we had disgusting T-Rats and MREs), real beds (I slept underneath an M-113)

Once the actual figting started, I no longer got to go to the rear but I heard that disparity was virtually unchanged. I understand, of course, that it is impossible to bring all of the "luxuries" of living to the front, however, there were several incidents that were preventable. Several times we were to receive sundries, that never made it to us. This included soap and razors. There was a period for about 2 months where I could not shower at all. Basically I cleansed myself with a rag and cold water. Couldn't shave without ripping myself to shreds because of the old razor. Here's the kicker on that, a gas mask cannot properly seal when one does not shave, thus I was virtually unprotected against a chemical attack. Perhaps the most disheartening was that the rear units would not delever us mail. I went 2 1/2 months with no mail. Furthermore, rear units would keep all of the bottled water and juice. For 2 months I drank nothing but chlorinated water.

It's the same now, if you are fortunate enough to be a REMF (real eschelon motherfucker) than you got it pretty good (considering) but if you're up front, plan on a miserable tour.

Lastly, the guys there now have it much worse than I did.

[atreides1]

30. Which Unit Were You With

I was attached to the 101stABN, 426th S&S Batallion, and we used to send all the sundries that came through us to our front line units. I can't say if they all got it, but I know we sent it out.

We even forwarded letters from school kids, boxes of cookies, popcorn,
and candy that were sent to the Division.

Granted we had our own vehicles and choppers to use to send the stuff forward. When the ground war started we could only send forward things
like food, fuel, and ammo. The first day was constant sling loading, and sending supplies to our forward areas, and because we were moving forward so quickly it was hard to keep up.

I'm not making excuses, just wanted to point out that not all units
screwed their troops in the front.

[chrisesq]

31. I was with the 1st Cav, 1st Brigade ,1/32 Armor Btn

Which, if I recall correctly was under the XVIII airborne corps.

I'm sure some units got their supplies, but hardly anyone in the 1st and 2nd brigades of 1st Cav. got anything after we moved to Northern S.A. and Iraq.

Many of the problems probably stem from the fact that it had to go through so many points to actually get to my unit. By the time it made it near the end, all receiving units took more than their share and virtually none was left for the more forward units.

[spotbird]

29. Does anyone know a particular location?

My soldier's address is:

Tf l-63 Armor
c/o 173 ARBN BDE

Is where he is featured in the article, I can't tell?

[maggrwaggr]

33. this always happens in war

plenty of stories to back that up