Northwest Airlines: STRIKE IS ON

[Bluebear]

Allen Whipkey consoles his wife Bernadette who believes that she won't be getting her job back as a cleaner for Northwest Airlines if they go on strike. Bernadette has worked for Northwest for 29 years.

(WCCO) The wait is over and Northwest mechanics said they will strike.

Mechanics from the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association began striking at 11:01 p.m. central time Friday. Northwest was seeking $1.1 billion worth of annual labor savings and wanted $176 million from its mechanics.

Both sides never met face-to-face Friday.

The airline lined up 1,200 temporary workers to replace the strikers. They also shifted Northwest mechanics' schedules so most workers would not be on the clock when the strike began.

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_231230800.html

[yellowdogintexas]

1. damn. I would book a flight on Northwest for September.

I know they have good reason for striking, or at least I assume so,
but now I am worried.

[merwin]

2. Their pay was going to be cut 25%. That's a damn good reason.

Plus, I wouldn't fly with them until the strike is over. I don't want ALL temps working on any airplane that I fly on.

[yellowdogintexas]

14. that is my major concern, actually.

Although when USAir's mechanics struck several years ago, there were no problems.

Even if you are a temp, you still have to be A&P certified

[cpamomfromtexas]

27. Actually this is no longer accurate

They only need to be overseen by an A&P in the states. for companies that outsource maintenance work, who knows! If the FAA doesn't have a station in that country no telling what is going on.

A few years back, my hubby worked for a company owned by some of the Hunt family, they spent all day trying to get him to take an illegal aircraft for a $400 part. He said no, needless to say, he wasn't there long.

[bribri16]

90. Unions are DEAD in America. The Re-thugs have seen to this starting

with Ronnie and the air traffic controllers back in the 80's.
The corporate scum vote for Republicans for this very reason.

[auburnblu]

118. Well the Rethugs and Mr. Soros

Southwest is unionized. Soros Air, JetBlue isn't.

[tavalon]

26. I don't usually use Northwest

but I won't cross a picket line, so I won't be using them for the duration.

Boy, if I were a Rethug, though, I could make bank as a Registered Nurse crossing picket lines (there are huge websites devoted to those who do - boy hospitals will pay bank to line crossers to avoid negotiating with nurses). I just won't do it. I'm not someone who will hurl insults or eggs or anything else at someone who would, but it just isn't in my make up. My grandfather was union. It's in the blood.

[Bluebear]

37. I like your karma. nt

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

61. Good for you. I'm a nurse who was on strike a few years ago

and we had the professional line crossers coming in.

These nurses also ran the gamut from highly competent to "scary" in how they provided hands on care. We came back to some lousy documentation and one bad outcome for a patient, directly related care provided by one of "line crossers."

It's sad that fellow nurses would do this to each other. MKJ

[Bluebear]

3. Mechanics would not give in to $76 million in concessions....

then Northwest went ahead and spent $100 million plus on strike preparations and pre-hiring scabs. It's their CEO's attempt to bust unions at Northwest.

[Bluebear]

5. PS good luck on your flight

Hopefully there won't be any disruption for you. The airline does intend to fly as normal and fire the mechanics.

[TomClash]

46. They'll continue outsourcing to the Phillippines

The Northwest mechanics in the US routinely fixed their mistakes. Not anymore.

[Trillo]

9. I still haven't shopped at Albertsons since they locked out their

employees in Southern California. The employee's strike is over, but mine isn't.

[Gman]

31. Never EVER cross a picket line

sorry.

[Psephos]

38. Never say never.

I would amend that to say "almost never." The world is not as black and white as our politics sometimes make us think.

Big companies aren't the workers' friend, to put it mildly, but unions aren't perfect, either. All human organizations are subject to corruption, especially when they know a lot of people are inclined to give them a free pass. I should know; my union fscked me over with no lube.

"Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Lord Acton

All that said, I hope the mechanics come out of this ok, but I'm not holding my breath. The airline industry is nothing but a race to the bottom. There is overcapacity among the high-cost carriers; a couple of the dinosaur airlines need to go out of business so the nimbler companies can survive.

The old days are over, and the money ain't coming back. Here is one place where you *can* say never.

Peace.

[Bluebear]

39. This union was being asked to cut its workforce by 50%

and go to 1980's wages. Literally. As recently as a few weeks ago, top management took six-figure bonuses that they said they had "no choice" but to take because of legal timing.

It seems in this case it is not a union greedily asking for more, more more, it is a corporation trying to bust the union.

[Psephos]

42. True, but my comments weren't specific to this case,

except to sympathize with the mechanics, and note that the airline industry as a whole has a lot more shake-outs coming. The companies, with only a few exceptions like Southwest, are hemorrhaging cash. Southwest is not encumbered by high cost structures like its older competitors.

My larger point was that automatic support of unions is not always warranted, at least without actually looking at all sides of the issues. I say that as a union member who has some personal direct experience driving that opinion.

Look at the airline deathwatch list: American, Delta, United, USAir. Northwest is only a shade better off than these other invalids. NWA stock is around five bucks a share. Clearly I'm not the only one who thinks they're toast.

I remember some of your earlier posts, Bluebear, and they're always in the spirit of good debate. It's a pleasure to exchange views with you.

Peace.

[Bluebear]

45. All true points

Automatic support of anything is not a great idea. "Beware the man who only reads one book." One of my favorite sayings.

As to the airline deathwatch list, isn't it sad? Terribly sad.

Peace to you!

[Jose Diablo]

64. Would the "high cost structures" you are referring to be

things like pensions, health care. You know, the 'luxuries' workers want.

Sounds like to me, you are cleverly phrasing your post points to justify the screwing of workers because of some illusionary 'free market' Leo Strauss was pushing as the end-all of all economic systems. 'Free market' mumbo jumbo is a RW talking point no matter how cleverly disguised.

Of course you do stress that you are sympathetic to the strikers plight. But here is the truth. If you look is a dictionary you will find the word 'sympathy' someplace between shit and syphilis. Who needs sympathy?

Edit: Besides, if Northwest was really concerned about "high cost structures" why don't they file a lawsuit against the Energy Industry for violations of anti-trust laws resulting in reduced availablity of fuel and allowing price gouging. The big bananas in Northwestern won't do this though because thats one of the targets of the RW, the workers benefits. And the high fuel costs will justify what they really want, and that is to take the profit that now goes to the employees and give it to themselves. And the employee unions are in the way of those plans, thus they the big bananas will try to break the union with scabs. This is an old game.

[Psephos]

104. Labor costs are not the problem

NWA's employees could work for free, and NWA would still have higher passenger mile costs than Southwest. I'm not making that up.

But I have something to say to you that has nothing to do with airlines.

This is a discussion board. As a fellow Dem - fuck that, as a fellow human being - I deserve a small amount of civility from you. I come here to learn. The process involves being open to what others have to say, while also reasoning in favor of what I have to say. It goes both ways.

When you, without provocation, belittle people who have different opinions than you, and make the hair on the back of their necks bristle, then you end all chance for real discussion right there. Maybe you have something valuable to add...too bad. Game over.

I don't hold discussions with political fundies, left, right, middle, up, or down. Because it is immune to other points of view, your "truth" is as moribund as Biblical truth is to a Christian fundy. All fundies share one trait in common: belief that there is only one truth, and, miracle of miracles, it turns out it's exactly the truth they spout.

Rhetorical gems like the dictionary argument or the ad hominem talking points slur only fortify my perceptions about your true believer mindset.

Anyone else desiring an interesting read on the airline industry's structural problems (analyzed from a politics-neutral point of view) may find the following link well worth the click. Hint: the problem is neither the cost of labor nor the cost of fuel.

Meanwhile, my sympathies remain with the mechanics.

http://www.thetravelinsider.info/2004/overcapacityexcuse.htm

These are my opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

Peace.

[Joebert]

115. Good link there.

That parallels well with the tech industry.

"We have to outsource the support to reduce the cost because customers won't pay that much for a computer any longer."

Um, if we don't have parts in stock, so the customer calls 3 times looking for them, maybe that is a bigger problem?

"Yeah, but when we fix that, look at all the money we'll have saved by outsourcing now!"

Um, when the newspaper reports that the average salary for an company employee in this city is $85,000, and tech support is paid $30,000 - $40,000, it means that soembody is making $125,000 or more.

"Oh, the paper must be wrong."

Um, If you send the calls to places that can't afford the product, and you fire us, who is going to buy the product?

"Oh, look, a question from this side of the room..."


Excess Capcity, Outsourcing = Bad management decisions, million dollar salaries and bonuses, meetings in exotic locales, pension for life for CEOs that flush companies into a toilet, etc.

[Psephos]

120. Heh, you make a very apt comparison...

...and something tells me you gathered your data about the tech industry firsthand, too. :-)

Good luck. I see a few signs of blowback in public perceptions about globalized tech support. Hope it becomes a trend.

Peace.

[cpamomfromtexas]

119. You are correct

Actually at American, that whole huge "loss" last year was mostly phantom.

What do I mean? In Jan 2004 every major newspaper in the country reported that American was planning to writeoff approximately $800 million in "goodwill" in the second quarter. What is goodwill? It is the excess of what is paid for assets over what they are worth on the books. What you say? Why would someone do that? Sometimes to just get what they want, or perhaps to let the other management team leave with golden parachutes. At any rate, once depreciated or written off, it has no effect on the cash balance of the airline at that point in time. So $800 million of the $1.1 Billion "loss" had no immediate impact on the cash balance at that time.

THE UNIONS WERE BLUFFED AND FLINCHED ALL BECAUSE NO ONE WAS SAVVY ENOUGH TO KNOW WHAT THE HELL GOODWILL WAS!

WALL STREET WASN'T EVEN SAVVY ENOUGH TO POINT THIS OUT, WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE INVEST WITH THEM?

[pitohui]

78. where is overcapacity?

i would question this statement

the loads are the highest in industry history

[rfkrfk]

98. overcapacity --> idle planes, freeloaders

just because flights are 90 percent plus filled,
does not mean that industrywide, all planes are
working a full day, flying full fare customers.

[Gman]

95. Let me clarify and be specific.

Never, ever cross a picket line for a lawful, bonifide strike, no matter the union, no matter the industry, no matter why.

[tmooses]

4. First United screwing its own loyal employees out of their pension and

now Northwest asking for over a billion in "labor savings". Why do hard working people have to pay for the incompetence of overpaid corporate executives?

[Bluebear]

7. Meanwhile the top officials sold off their stock

Top officials at financially ailing Eagan, Minn.-based Northwest Airlines have been selling company stock at a strikingly strong pace.

Northwest director Gary Wilson has sold more than 75 percent of his NWA holdings, 3.2 million shares, since May, and director Al Checchi unloaded more than 85 percent of 4.6 million shares since the turn of the year, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported Monday.

Last December the stock traded at more than $11 per share. On Monday NWA stock was slightly over $4 per share.

Look at the insider selling over the past couple of months, said Jim Corridore, Standard & Poor's airlines equity analyst. That's very alarming.

http://www.rednova.com/news/display/?id=200673&source=r_technology

[Jensen]

17. Not to forget that UAL employees have given back

28% percent before they took away there pensions!

[rfkrfk]

24. United's employee-owners screwed themselves,

not related to the Northwest issue

[iamtechus]

32. How in the world would you know anything about it?

Don't bother to reply. You're on ignore.

[CountAllVotes]

6. Good! UNION YES!

They have done the right thing. United Airlines settled up without getting what was deserved. Now they are still operating in bankruptcy status and their service has declined greatly since. NEVER again UA. I called them and they have wasted no time outsourcing jobs already. I got India I think! :grr:

UNION YES AND NORTHWEST AIRLINES, MORE POWER TO YOU!

Don't settle up for peanuts! If you do, you'll soon be another United Airlines and they are going to go broke I believe.

:kick: :kick:

[halobeam]

8. These companies make me so mad....

I wish there was a time out for these companies that misbehave. Given to them by the public. I don't know, maybe for a couple of days, no one uses them, their service, etc. Hit em hard but not enough where they have to let people go, but just enough to hurt their plans for a new yacht or something.

It would be great to pick a company each week that would get a well deserved disciplinary "time out".

[KitchenWitch]

10. As I said to someone earlier

I will never fly NWA again (and that is a hardship since MSP is an NWA hub - and I will likely never get a non-stop flight anywhere I want to go.)

Big businesses need to remember that without their employees, they cannot make any money. Human resources are their greatest resource, not something to be pushed aside.

[KitchenWitch]

16. Oh and I recommended this to the Greatest page

:hi:

[MichiganVote]

11. Mechanics on strike-airline-sky-no net??? Won't be flying this airline

[GAspnes]

82. at least you have a choice

I live a mile from the end of runway 12-L. Anything falls off, it's landing on my house.

[MichiganVote]

85. Yikes!

[Beausoir]

12. I live in MN...been following this story for weeks...

NWA is intent on busting this union.

And no one seems to care.

I dunno about you all, but I'm not especially interested in flying NWA...with the OLDEST fleet in the nation, with planes that are being serviced by newbies.

The mechanics union has done a HORRIBLE job of trying to win over public opinion. They should have been informing the public about the salaries of NWA execs. They should have been informing the public about the BILLIONS (Yes...with a B!) of dollars in cash reserves that NWA has been hoarding, in order to declare bankruptcy, stiff their creditors and STILL keep operating.

And WHERE THE HELL are the pilots and flight attendants on this entire issue??

[flyarm]

48. and remember it is the american tax payer who will be picking up

the pensions for united..yes the american tax payer..
now they will all follow suit...you have been had american people!

thank gw*...and the rethugs!!

[phylny]

110. My father-in-law, a staunch, *-loving, dyed-in-the-wool Republican

is INCENSED that HE as an American TAXPAYER has to pick up the tab for the pensions of United's employees. I smirked when he said this (yes, like *).

[tmooses]

13. I would never cross a picket line for a flight. I've walked too many of

them myself and just don't think its right even if it is a cheaper flight. It's just part of standing up to corporate greed and incompetence that has their poster boy now in the White House.

[Bluebear]

20. Solidarity.

[cpamomfromtexas]

28. Good for you

A minor scheduling inconvenience is worth honoring a picket line. I wish all union members luck right now, bushco is trying to bust labor right now.

Give it time, they'll be trying to outsource more mechanics, flight attendants, and pilots too, stand strong my friends.

[bluestateguy]

15. I wish the workers luck

I just hope this is not another Eastern Airlines situation, where you had a struggling airline that never recovered from the strike and eventually shut down.

And those "replacement" workers are the scum of the earth. No sympathy from me if anything bad happens to them!

[Beausoir]

18. Where are the pilots? And the flight attendants?

Who is going to stand up for these mechanics?

[Bluebear]

19. NW already hired flight attendant scabs in advance

Total strongarm and union-busting scare tactics. And everyone knows with a Bush administration that labor would be screwed in any sympathy action. Totally sad.

[rfkrfk]

22. are pilots crossing the picket line, or not? n/t

[Bluebear]

40. Crossing.

http://www.nwaalpa.org/news/index.html

Northwest Pilots Will Not Honor AMFA Strike

Bloomington, Minn. --- The Master Executive Council (MEC) of the NWA chapter of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l has decided that NWA pilots will not honor the picket lines of striking NWA employees represented by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association. Union leaders judged that a sympathy strike action was not in the best interests of NWA pilots and other NWA employees.

"I am deeply disappointed the parties were unable to reach a negotiated settlement," NWA MEC Chairman Capt. Mark McClain said. "The current environment requires labor costs to be part of an overall solution. Unfortunately, Northwest management continues to overplay its hand by demanding labor costs well below its competitors."

ALPA has stated since April 2003 that NWA management and all NWA employees would need to participate in a joint solution to help the company overcome its financial difficulties. NWA pilots acted in December 2004 when they agreed to provide NWA with $265 million annually in wage, work rule and benefit changes.

"There is still time to secure our company's future, but it will require a combined effort by NWA employees and management," McClain said. "Union leaders and senior management must meet face to face and hammer out a joint solution now. It will not be simple or painless. Everyone, including management, will need to share in the sacrifice."

The NWA chapter of ALPA represents 5,700 NWA pilots. Founded in 1931, ALPA is the world's oldest and largest pilot union representing more than 64,000 pilots at 41 airlines in the United States and Canada. Visit the ALPA website at http://www.alpa.org.

[rfkrfk]

43. do any Dem party leaders, have a position on, crossing picket lines?

say nothing, do nothing --> be nothing.
This is a chance to speak up.

What can be done to encourage other unions,
pilots, cabin attendants?, others?, to
respect the picket line.

Is there bad blood, between these unions?
Did the mechanics fink on the others, some time earlier?

[flyarm]

49. the pilots ought to do what american pilots did years ago...

slow up all the planes!! cost NW lost of money in fuel..they wont make that public..but with the price of fuel..it would hit NW hard!!

find all sorts of mechanical stuff..delay departures...flight attendants too..they should do it in unison!!

the flight crew can do more harm to NW by staying on the job..and just being ... shall we say..nit picky with all no go items!!
cockpit crews can really screw them most with fuel and delays!!

they can call on mechanics for all sorts of nit pickey things!!

plus then they can have the crews go illegal in flying time, and alot of overtime...or "high" time flying and on duty time for entire crews...

if they are smart at NW..the crews will use these tactics!! because the next cut can be there's!..and will be if NW succeeds!

when will airline people learn..they always get screwed under rethugs..always!

what reagan didn't destroy of the airlines unions..* will finish them off!

when will people stop voting against themselves??

fly

[bettyellen]

58. i heard from an insider that these things have been going on the past week

yes, know i know two great flight attendants through DU.
:hi:

[tedzbear]

99. That's bullshit.

They should not cross the goddamn picket line!

[tedzbear]

97. Capt. McClain is a smiling face, stabbing his union bros in the back.

He speaks with a forked tongue. While siding with the mechanics, he is happy to let them do the heavy lifting. What a jerk.

[KitchenWitch]

21. WCCO: NWA Mechanics Strike

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_231230800.html

Mechanics from the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association began striking at 11:01 p.m. central time Friday. Northwest was seeking $1.1 billion worth of annual labor savings and wanted $176 million from its mechanics.

Both sides never met face-to-face Friday.

The airline lined up 1,200 temporary workers to replace the strikers. They also shifted Northwest mechanics' schedules so most workers would not be on the clock when the strike began.





Another example of union busting in our country!

edited to add link.

[wli]

23. Bushler will just send in stormtroopers to kill them n/t

[progressivebydesign]

25. That poor woman. Does anyone think of the ones that suffer in a strike.

Our school district is considering a strike because they want a 10% pay raise... sad for the classified workers like cafeteria and janitorial that cannot survive if they don't go back to work in September. Wish both sides in all of these stories could reach an agreement without the strikes.. they really rarely work in favor of the strikers, the corporations or institutions find ways of working around giving them what they want.

[TahitiNut]

29. Just another reason to not fly Northwest.

This puts 'em on my "will never fly" list along with United. Contemptible management!

[converted_democrat]

55. Ditto that .... There are certain lines in life no one should cross.

This is one of them.

[gulfcoastliberal]

102. aka NORTHWORST - CEO Steenland rakes in millions

What about their executive pay, bonuses, and golden parachutes for the exec suite? But the mechanics union needs to give up their pensions and healthcare. Hmmm.

[rfkrfk]

109. don't blame NWA management, a snake is a snake

The pilot's and flight attendant's unions,

and the snake,

want everyone to blame the snake,

not the pilot's and flight attendant's unions.

[gulfcoastliberal]

112. Your damn right about that - the pilots and flight attendants

should have picketed along with the mechanics. Strength in numbers.

[Bluebear]

113. eh?

[Tom Kitten]

30. this is OUTRAGEOUS!!!

NO WAY should any person who in this country be forced to accept a 25% pay cut !!!
especially AIRLINE MECHANICS!
Why should I ever fly with this Airline? They're shitting on their own employees and hiring temps and they expect me to place my life in their hands???

[pitohui]

79. is it outrageous

i'm sorry to say that i am not so well paid as others here must be

i'd be delighted to take a pay cut of 25 percent of a starting pay of $37 an hour

it is hard to sympathize, these kind of wages just aren't available to most americans any more

i usually do respect picket lines but these people are making way more than i could ever dream of earning, their demands are unrealistic in light of current economic realities

[kahleefornia]

94. that information is often misrepresented

For example, my union scale is $34.50/hour. But I don't work 40 hours a week. Sometimes I work 5 days, sometimes 2 or three. I have no guarantee, and can be off for weeks or months at a time. The higher hourly rate is what makes the job livable for an employee, and allows flexibility for the company.

Please don't assume that all jobs are 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. These high hourly rates are publicized to mislead.

[Bluebear]

107. It's not their fault that they make more than you

They set their lives, mortgages, debts, based on a wage they negotiated in good faith. The fact that they make more than you could ever "dream of earning" does not make them wrong.

In today's ecnomic reality, the CEO of the airlines shouldn't be making millions of dollars either.

[DBoon]

117. I fly a lot on business

as far as I'm concerned, anyone who gets me to my destination safely is worth whatever they make.

A mistake by a mechanic can cost hundreds of human lives.

$37/hour is peanuts considering this.

[sue_66]

33. republican in office

union busting, I am saddened but not surprised

[KitchenWitch]

34. Me too

Welcome to DU!

[Bluebear]

35. Company also proposed a 50% cut in personnel

Imagine asking a union to ratify a contract that would fire half its membership?

[Sgent]

36. This F'in Sucks

Although I might consider a short trip on NWA so I can get my platinum status renewed (need 1500 miles, one trip), I won't be crossing a picket line other than that.

I like Northwest -- even though I'm somewhat forced into it by flying out of MEM. The flight attendents are excellent, the service personnel and ground personnel are all top notch. They care when they screw up (usually) and do what they can to fix it.

I personally like the older planes -- usually they have better accomodations, more 1st class seats, and better percentage of upgrades. Finally, they use those older planes instead of regional jets (barf). On top of that even some of their RJ's have good ammenities compared to many other carriers.

I hope that management will get off their butts and come to some sort of resolution with the mechanics soon. I want to be able to fly my favorite airline.

[pitohui]

80. MEM is supposed to be least affected by strike

i too hope something can be worked out

but i think you'll still be OK flying out of MEM

[fortyfeetunder]

41. is sacrifice by all socialist?

People who fly put their trust in the men and women who valiantly put their lives on the line to ensure the airlines fly reliably and safety.

Perhaps concessions should have been made, but it should have been across the board, starting at the CEO level. Is that asking too much for CEO's? Or is that concept too socialist for corporate Murka?

[salin]

57. Concessions by execs? Hah! They recently took bonuses! n/t

[nookiemonster]

44. The dismantiling of trade unions

makes the pukes salivate. Obviously I wish more of the sheeple would wake the fuck up and realize why collective bargaining was instilled in the first place.

Eventually, this is going to get real nasty, count on it.

[flyarm]

47. my heart goes out to NORTHWEST UNIONS AND EMPLOYEES!

they are trying to dismantle all the airline unions..it is so sad to me..my heart breaks what this admin has done to the airlines...

i was a flt attend for one of the 9/11 airlines..and i remember in the election campaign of 2000 i flew with a cockpit crew who were so pro * ..well we had a layover for the debates..and the cockpit crew wanted to get to hotel to see it..well i thought * sucked,..and the captain was a real dick..and so mad that i was the only one who could not stand *...but my hubby had been a vp of a union and i said..he will screw unions..well the captain wouldn't hardly talk to me he was so mad that i was so anti *...i sure wish i knew who the captain was now..he was from a different base than me..so i just can't remember his name..

because i would love to ask him who was right..him or me...i know the answer but i sure would like to make him answer to me now!!

Most of the airline union people were pro * in 2000..see where it got them now!!

what a darned shame..in 2000 the airlines were flying high economically..now..well ..they will all be done in by *


fly

[Turn CO Blue]

84. Same experience. All the young pilots I know are very pro-bush*

I work for an airline and the pilots I meet are all young, yuppie Bushbots to the utmost.

This is what has happened to the airline pilot unions -- they were infiltrated by Young Repugs straight out of college.

[rfkrfk]

50. is any Other union, honoring the picket line? n/t

[Puglover]

51. A couple of facts for you all.

AMFA members used to be in my union the IAM. IAM is the largest union at NWA with over 26,000 members. Ramp guys, agents clerical and many other job titles. The combined power of all these jobs is enough to shut NWA down.
Historically the mechanics were unhappy with the IAM because they were "licensed technitions" and the rest of us were "dragging them down" AMFA courting them made many claims that with AMFA they mechanics could have huge salaries etc. etc. etc. When the vote came to leave the IAM the vast majority of senior guys voted to stay with IAM but it passed by a small majority. I remember at that time the maintenance guys in my office said "they are completely screwed" AMFA has since been completely belligerant with the company and towards other work groups. I read the letter that the head of the IAM wrote to AMFA regarding AMFAs request to honor their picket lines. It basically said to pound sand.
AMFA painted itself and it's union members into a corner and sadly I'm looking out my office window right now at some very unhappy picketers.
If you're curious as to how the membership at AMFA is divided and pissed at the UNION have a look at www.amfanuts.com.
Contrary to what some of the rocket scientists on this board may think with little or none of the facts this is NOT a black and white case. Company bad, AMFA good.

[rfkrfk]

56. what is the company's incentive, to do business with AMFA ?

seems like,, AMFA out, scabs in, nobody else DOES anything.

[BlueCollar]

70. well stated

As a member and supporter of the TWU at AA I remember AMFA's raid attempt two years ago.

AMFA organisers were pushing the idea that mechanics were better off in bankruptcy court than negotiating concessions. I happened to disagree. I won't tell you the kind of personal abuse AMFA used to attack rhe me, the TWU and its supporters.

AMFA trades in deception under the guise of wanting to be a "Craft" Association rather than an "Industrial" Union. These guys are similar to the Republicans with their Tax cut rhetoric.

I hope they can weather this, but as a recipient of their foul behaviour in the past don't expect me to send them any donations. If the IAM had struck, these guys would have crossed the line in a heartbeat.

I put AMFA and Republicans in the same category

[Puglover]

73. Exactly right Blue

but we have people here that rather then read the facts will continue to scream hyperbole about the big bad corporations. I'd love to post the letter the head of the IAM wrote to AMFA when they asked us to honor their picket lines. Not sure if that would be kosher though. As I said before, he basically told them to pound sand in a very direct way.

[BlueCollar]

76. The fact is that NWA are corporate assholes

and they will use this strike to break the rest of the Unions at NWA.

Reality is that the "public" will fly the low-costs as quickly as they'll shop walmart. The low-costs don't offer pensions or other union benefits...hence the established carriers have to find ways to compete.

I doubt anyone at the IAM would object to your posting the IAMs letter to that turd OV.

[tedzbear]

103. Bullshit.

Your point sounds like sour grapes to me. You should not be crossing the picket line, irregardless of the mechanics' affiliation.

Once one union starts crossing another union's strike lines, they might as well be scabs.

No one seems to understand that the only way a strike will work is if all the unions in a company strike together to completely paralyze it. If one union strikes, the others should honor that picket line. Management LOVES the fact that the opposite is what usually occurs nowadays.

If you read American history, you will find that the only successful strikes were the ones where separate unions honored each others' picket lines, OR where all the railroad unions in the nation went on strike to support strikers against a single railroad. They shut down the entire industry, not just one company.

It's united we stand, or united we fall. It doesn't work any other way.

[Puglover]

111. You aren't even aware that AMFA isn't AFL-CIO therefore not

a union. Nor are you aware apparently that "irregardless" isn't a word. AMFA came in an RAIDED an AFL-CIO union. Try doing your homework before you start spouting american history to me. Sour grapes? Hardly. AMFA suggested kindly to the company that the IAM should take concessions of 260,000,000.00 instead of the 170,000,000.00 that the company is asking for so they (AMFA) could have larger raises. And you want the IAM to honor AMFA strike?
Per you NWA is an airline entirely made of of scabs now since none of the unions honored AMFAs strike. A fine point if you're 5 years old.

[Sgent]

52. No sympathy strikes

From IAM, Flight Attendents, or Pilots.

The A&P Mechanics dissassociated themselves from IAM and joined a new union. The have have refused to play ball with the other unions, reimburse strikers, or gaurentee thier jobs. The other unions have told them to pound sand.

In in espicially bad move, they recommended doubling the cuts to IAM workers to give it to the mechanics.

It wouldn't surprise me too much if NWA did a mass replacement (aka aircraft controllers) given the situation.

[tedzbear]

105. Union bickering is what Management LOVES.

Unions that let their bickering have priority over their common purpose are playing right into management's hands. Sure, the mechanics pissed off the IAM and vice versa. But unless they honor each others picket lines they will both go down.

[AFSCME girl]

53. Northwest Mechanics ~ This AFSCME sister is

behind you 100%! :thumbsup: Hang in there!

[Swamp Rat]

54. poor lady

:cry:

[peacebuzzard]

59. Flight Attendants voted last night to not sympathy strike.

Although they are backing individuals who will exercise a sympathy strike. These flight attendant strikers will be immediately discharged and replaced, as stated in emails from the management.


Instead, it will be slow down, slow down, write up, write up.

It will be a mess. Pilots will not be releasing unsafe planes.

The Flight Attendants Union, the PFAA is next on the chopping block. They are facing a 20% base pay cut with other peripheral pay cuts totaling a whopping 39% reduction. (The peripherals include the precious short crew pay, holding pay, international pay--which will be also be outsourced, ground pay etc.

Welcome to Bushworld.

[rfkrfk]

62. define 'safe/unsafe', when planes are fixed by scabs , n/t

[peacebuzzard]

67. I have no answer.

We (the flight attendants) are the next victims on the corporate chopping block.

P.S. If I could muse something it would be the competency, decision making and proactive participation of the captain. Most are qualified for the right decision and yet there are some "company" freaks aka non-players.

[Puglover]

63. Ummm

pilots don't "release" unsafe airplanes at any time. And I'm at work at NWA now. It's very quiet FYI.

[peacebuzzard]

65. And I am on my way. I never thought it would come to this.

This is another big sucking downward spiral.

Fasten your seatbelts.

[Catchawave]

60. Will the CEO still get his bonus?

I never could figure out how the airlines can chop salaries, employee benefits and customer service, then declare bankruptcy, AND still pay their chiefs a million or so bucks every year ?

Maybe it's time we "outsource" management.

[fasttense]

66. Once Northwest has broken the Mechanics Union

they will start on the pilots and attendants unions. Then we can all live on Wal-Mart scale pay.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. I may have to go to Japan later in the fall or winter, and I will cobble

together whatever flights I have to to avoid Northwest. (I was planning on flying an Asian airline from the Coast anyway, but I will hopscotch across the country on other carriers if I have to.)

An acquaintance of mine has made a career in airline labor relations, and the inside story is that basically, the Northwest executives are taking their own greed and incompetence out on the employees.

[meganmonkey]

69. Uh-oh. My SO travels for work and they always fly NW

He'll probably have to cross the picket line, whether he wants to or not.

I really hope something good comes of all this - I can't imagine what these workers are dealing with. The picture in the OP is heartbreaking - 29 years and she may be screwed :(

[mbperrin]

71. I would never cross a picket line for any reason.

EOM.

[DubyaSux]

72. Maybe they should let them walk....

Don't get me wrong, I'm against big business and know the little guy is getting creamed here.

But from what I see, it's not their pay getting cut by 25%, but the amnount of increase they are demanding. Much like a politician saying "I saved 10% on this budget bill" when in reality, there was a raise, but not as much as suggested. Hell,I haven't gotten as much as a nickel raise in 5 years.

Current mechanic's salaries are $54,000 a year without overtime. The union wanted to up that to $92,000 without overtime because they feel the mechanics should make what the pilots do. So, Northwest offered $65,500 which would still lead the industry. The union said no, and here we are.

I'd take any job any day for $65.5K a year not counting overtime. I'd take an 18% raise like they've been offered.

Not taking sides...just making sure we're not rooting for the underdog just because it's the underdog. I could be mistaken.

[Bluebear]

77. Let me give you some more information

To begin with, it is never as simple as saying "I would take a job for $65K a year!" Fact is, if that is what they contracted for with the company, there it is. People have set up their mortgages, car payments, standards of life with those negotiated figures in mind. It's all well to say "that's a lot of money a year, if they don't like it, they can leave!" These people can't tell their mortgage companies and creditors "I am getting a paycut so I will be sending you less every month." Also, they were asking the union to approve a contract that would fire half of its members via a 50% staffing cut.

I'm going to borrow a post from another board which explains things pretty well: "I believe that the deeper issue is that NWA management has a long history of a flawed corporate culture that has never been corrected. Back in the the days when Al Checci was in charge (the early 1990's, I believe) he, along with some of his board room cronies, took Northwest Airlines private, hence saddling the corporation when a significant debt load. Unable to meet its debt obligations, the company threatened bankruptcy and managed to ring out $600 million in concessions from its respective unions (in which NWA narrowly averted a Chapter 11 filing). Shortly thereafter, then-CEO John Dassberg was awarded a hefty $700 thousand bonus. It was very ill-timed and the unions at NWA flew into a rage (rightfully so), feeling like the bonus came off their backs. Furthermore, in exchange for concessions, the unions were given stock for their sacrifices. When the time came for certain union groups to sell their shares, NWA management sought an injunction which prevented the union groups from being able to sell their stock. After protracted litigation, the courts eventually sided with the NWA unions with regard to the sale of their respective shares. Furthermore, NWA management made agreements with state of Minnesota that gave the company significant tax breaks in return for promised jobs. Again, NWA management did not hold up its end of the bargain and failed to provide the jobs that were promised to the state. The events of the past decade have created a deep-seeded distrust between NWA management and its unions. The unions have felt both deceived and betrayed by NWA management and little effort has been put forth to mend those already strained relations. Furthermore, while the company has been adament about the need to extract a further $167 million in concessions from AMFA, NWA management has spent nearly $100 million in contigency plans to replace its union workers. Whether real or not, these efforts have given the front line workers at NWA the "perception" that NWA management had little intention of bargaining in good faith. So, it's no wonder that it has come to this point...."

[DubyaSux]

81. Huh?

"To begin with, it is never as simple as saying "I would take a job for $65K a year!" Fact is, if that is what they contracted for with the company, there it is. People have set up their mortgages, car payments, standards of life with those negotiated figures in mind. It's all well to say "that's a lot of money a year, if they don't like it, they can leave!" These people can't tell their mortgage companies and creditors "I am getting a paycut so I will be sending you less every month." Also, they were asking the union to approve a contract that would fire half of its members via a 50% staffing cut."

The problem with your point is that the mechanics are not making $65K a year and basing their mortgages off it. They're making $54K.

They asked for $92K and the company offered $65K, an 18% increase from what they have now. So I have no clue what your thought process could be in terms of defending their current salaries.

Many people here can't even find a job, let alone something that gives them an 18% increase. But 18% isn't enough and they went on strike.

Again, not defending anybody, but putting the current employment situation in perspective. In today's market, they should feel lucky to be getting anything. Many people aren't.

[Bluebear]

83. Where did you hear they asked for $92,000 a year?

Just curious, I would be interested to see it.

[mn9driver]

86. Facts.

Your sources are in error.

A typical senior line mechanic was making $35.73/hr with license, skill and shift overrides. Call it $71,000 per year, more or less. Here's AMFA's 2001 contract, so you can verify it yourself:

http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/08_NWA_Archive/Neg_Update/04-09-2001.pdf

NWA's last offer to AMFA on Thursday would pay that same technician $27.28/hr, or $54,000 per year. Feel free to verify:

http://www.amfanatl.org/Pages/06_News&Information/NWA/NWA_NEG_Update_%2327.pdf

Also, look at the massive elimination of jobs contained in the offer. This is what Union busting looks like. The media keeps referring to "replacement workers", but here at DU I think it would be appropriate to call them by their real name:

SCABS

NWA management won't stop here. All of us who work there are next. I make no apologies for what I earn, and the mechanics shouldn't either. NWA's financial problems have very little to do with their labor costs, which are lower than Southwest's by the way, and very much to do with inept management decision making over the years.

The endless bankruptcies at UAL and AAA are not helping the industry, either. NWA and DAL are likely to enter Chapter 11 just so they can compete on a level playing field. The current industry darlings, the LCC's, are not interested in providing the service that the large carriers do. They cherry pick the high traffic, high profit routes and ignore the rest. If/when the large carriers die, don't expect them to altruistically pick up the slack.

If the current trend continues, eventually domestic air travel will only be available between large cities--think Amtrak. International travel will only be offered by foreign carriers--just like the cruise ship industry today.

[kahleefornia]

101. Do they work 40 hours a week?

Does that hourly rate really generate the yearly amount? In my job, it doesn't. And that makes a huge difference to the argument.

[kahleefornia]

100. many people aren't

because they don't stand up for themselves. Workers deserve whatever wage they can negotiate. Why shouldn't a highly skilled worker like an airline mechanic earn more than someone in, say, the average office job?

And before all the secretaries get offended - stand up for yourselves and demand higher wages too! Do you really, really think that whatever company you work for can't afford it? Or that you don't DESERVE it? You don't deserve to have a comfortable home, vehicle that runs, good food for your family, and a vacation now and then?

No one should be working to create a profit for a company at the expense of their own quality of life. There is no situation where that makes any sense at all. Just because some 5 year old sewing Nikes in Thailand makes $.23/day, doesn't mean that's all I should get.

Yes - they are lucky compared to some. But unlucky compared to the CEOs who are not responsible for keeping the planes from falling out of the sky every day, who, believe it or not, are making much more than $54k a year.

And another thing...(sorry, I get fired up about labor) These numbers are relative to where the mechanics are living. $54k/year when you live in Kentucky is not at all the same as $54k/year when you live in Los Angeles, and the average 3 bedroom ranch home costs half a million.

[LTRS]

108. Wow, you win the prize for being misinformed!

Wow, you are incredibly misinformed on just about every count. You must have been watching Faux News.

They ARE being asked to take a 25% cut, and pay about 40% more of their healthcare costs, and give up their pension for a 401K with a small company match. " They are also being asked to vote in favor of half of their co-workers being laid off.

Nor do they make a "salary. Wages from hourly work average out to $50K a year for mechanics and $30K for the custodians also on strike over the same contract.

I would have to ask you to substantiate the $92K figure and the 18% raise because frankly sounds like it was pulled out of someone's butt. ;)

Sorry to say, I have rarely seen a more misinformed on the facts posting on DU.

[sendero]

74. I feel sorry for these folks..

... because IMHO basically there is nothing to win.

The airline industry is still in deep deep trouble, and no amount of wishing can change that. Among those at the back of the back, the forces of capitalism are just waiting for them to stumble so they can be taken down.

I doubt NWA survives this at all.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

75. Well, there goes another airline.

How many are left now? .005? With all of the "Thank you for traveling on Foopy, a joint venture between the remnants of US Airways, United, and Uzbeki Motorized Air Transport Corporation" it's getting hard to tell.

[DuaneBidoux]

87. The workers here (and I know I'll get flamed big time) are not right.

The industry is virtually teetering across the board. Companies in this industry with few exceptions are truly in trouble. I have a great deal of sympathy for what is happening to the wages and salaries and jobs of workers in the airline industry but when the companies are literally melting down something has got to give.

If someone wants to correct me in a polite way I'll be happy to hear an argument about how workers can stay unscathed with airlines declaring bankruptcy left and right. Ultimately a company does have to make money for workers to stay employed and make money.

[libnnc]

88. but why is it always the workers who have

to do the sacrificing? Shouldn't the CEOs trim their budgets?

[DuaneBidoux]

114. Absolutely. i don't disagree with that one bit! If I were a shareholder

of some of these companies and had any kind of influence (obviously not) that would be one of my demands. In fact, I would force CEO's to take NO salaries until the company was turning a profit and not just by laying people off.

[rfkrfk]

89. will pilots strike, when flight attendants are replaced by scabs? n/t

[mn9driver]

91. ALPA doesn't announce that in advance.

We've been working to keep the company out of Chapter 11. Pilots have already given one round of pay cuts, and we expect to give another round, perhaps even larger than the first, as soon as the other labor group contracts have been settled.

The PFAA is in a very difficult situation along with all of the other labor groups. NWA used a "take it or leave it" approach to negotiations with AMFA, and I expect they will do the same with the flight attendants. ALPA will not get involved in that.

ALPA will do what it deems to be in the best interest of the pilots. Since we "marry" an airline when we get hired, keeping NWA viable is important. With the company in such poor financial shape, shutting down the operation with a sympathy strike might jeopardize that---of course, if we determine that it is in our best interest to strike, we will.

[rfkrfk]

92. good strategy

Since the flight attendants are not helping the mechanics,
I don't see any reason for pilots to the help when
its the flight attendant's turn to get it.

[tedzbear]

106. You will be sorry you are crossing the picket line.

You are only shooting yourself in the foot (not to mention stabbing your union bros in the back).

[gort]

93. and George Bush goes on with his life.

eom

[Joebert]

116. He's got free airfare and security for life

Either by way of AF1, or when he leaves office, private jets, paid for by the corporate leaders that funded him.

[mike_c]

96. STAND UP FOR AMERICAN WORKERS.....

Do NOT fly Northwest!