Baghdad civilian death totals are extreme

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washtimes.com/upi/20050821-110618-6132r.htm

Civilian deaths in Baghdad in July were more than New York City had in all of 2004, and that's excluding car bombings and suicide bombings.

Time magazine reports the surge in non-combat related violence is due to the various sects in Iraq who want to start a civil war.

Reports that death squads are entering quiet Baghdad neighborhoods and killing innocent civilians are growing.

Baghdad central morgue director, Faiq Amin Bakr, said 880 violent deaths occurred in the city in July.

[shraby]

1. Death squads? Shades of Negreponte!!!

What was he over there for again???

[joe_duh]

10. Ah yes an option of El Salvador

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1433353,00.html

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031215fa_fact

I'm starting to believe shit like this more and more everyday:
http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m12022&l=i&size=1&hd=0
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/MOR505A.html

[mom cat]

22. Welcome to DU joe_duh. No question in my mind that the US and UK

are backing the Death Squads.

[fearnobush]

29. As Hunter and Garcia once wrote....

"Standing on the moon
I see the battle rage below
Standing on the moon
I see the soldiers come and go
There's a metal flag beside me
Someone planted long ago
Old Glory standing stiffly
Crimson, white and indigo - indigo

I see all of Southeast Asia
I can see El Salvador
I hear the cries of children
And the other songs of war
It's like a mighty melody
That rings down from the sky
Standing here upon the moon
I watch it all roll by - all roll by"

[tanyev]

2. But Tom Delay said Iraq was safer than Houston!

'You know, if Houston, Texas, was held to the same standard as Iraq is held to, nobody'd go to Houston, because all this reporting coming out of the local press in Houston violence, murders, robberies, deaths on the highways,' DeLay says in an interview reported in today's Houston Chronicle. It's the media's fault, of course. People should just go to Iraq, DeLay says, and they'd see what's really happening there. 'Everybody that comes from Iraq is amazed at the difference of what they see on the ground and what they see on the television.'"
http://liberalavenger.com/2005/06/delay-baghdad-houston.html

Tom Delay wouldn't lie, would he?????

:sarcasm:

[NYC]

3. People should just go to Iraq?

They'd see what's really happening there? I would hardly consider Iraq a tourist destination.

Did Tom DeLay go to Iraq? If so, did he go without body guards? Did he walk the streets alone?

[Fridays Child]

4. It might seem that way, if you have to drive on Houston freeways...

...every day. But I'd still rather take my chances here than in Baghdad.

[Spinzonner]

8. Isn't it time for an investigation over the coverup of all the car bombing

in Houston ?

[daleo]

5. Well, Bush says he is fighting the terrorists in Iraq rather than the U.S.

I guess that makes the residents of Baghdad human shields for the protection of residents of the U.S. So, I suppose these deaths are all part of Bush's immoral, illegal, and racist plan.

[Judi Lynn]

6. "Bush's immoral, illegal, and racist plan." Absolutely right. n/t

[Cha]

7. At what point does it

become apparent that saddaminsane was better than what the bushwa wrought?

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

16. Yes, I'm serious!

And not only am I serious about that I'm serious about saying that bush is a fucking monster and should be taken to the Hague in handcuffs along with the rest of the bushwa cabal he's fronting for.

Serious as LYING about the reasons we bombed Iraq..you can't get any more SERIOUS than that!

[frylock]

18. i'm still waiting for substantive proof of saddam's mass graves..

PM admits graves claim 'untrue'

Peter Beaumont, foreign affairs editor
Sunday July 18, 2004
The Observer

Downing Street has admitted to The Observer that repeated claims by Tony Blair that '400,000 bodies had been found in Iraqi mass graves' is untrue, and only about 5,000 corpses have so far been uncovered.

The claims by Blair in November and December of last year, were given widespread credence, quoted by MPs and widely published, including in the introduction to a US government pamphlet on Iraq's mass graves.

In that publication - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves produced by USAID, the US government aid distribution agency, Blair is quoted from 20 November last year: 'We've already discovered, just so far, the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves.'

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1263901,00.html

Of course, there are these mass graves:

What Bodies?
November 2002

by Patrick J. Sloyan

Leon Daniel, as did others who reported from Vietnam during the 1960s, knew about war and death. So he was puzzled by the lack of corpses at the tip of the Neutral Zone between Saudi Arabia and Iraq on Feb. 25, 1991. Clearly there had been plenty of killing. The 1st Infantry Division (Mechanized) had smashed through the defensive front-line of Saddam Hussein’s army the day before, Feb. 24, the opening of the Desert Storm ground war to retake Kuwait. Daniel, representing United Press International, was part of a press pool held back from witnessing the assault on 8,000 Iraqi defenders. “They wouldn’t let us see anything,” said Daniel, who had seen about everything as a combat correspondent.

The artillery barrage alone was enough to cause a slaughter. A 30-minute bombardment by howitzers and multiple-launch rockets scattering thousands of tiny bomblets preceded the attack by 8,400 American soldiers riding in 3,000 M1A2 Abrams main battle tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, Humvees, armored personnel carriers and other vehicles.

It wasn’t until late in the afternoon of Feb. 25 that the press pool was permitted to see where the attack occurred. There were groups of Iraqi prisoners. About 2,000 had surrendered. But there were no bodies, no stench of feces that hovers on a battlefield, no blood stains, no bits of human beings. “You get a little firefight in Vietnam and the bodies would be stacked up like cordwood,” Daniel said. Finally, Daniel found the Division public affairs officer, an Army major.

“Where the hell are all the bodies?” Daniel said.

“What bodies?” the officer replied.

Daniel and the rest of the world would not find out until months later why the dead had vanished. Thousands of Iraqi soldiers, some of them alive and firing their weapons from World War I-style trenches, were buried by plows mounted on Abrams main battle tanks. The Abrams flanked the trench lines so that tons of sand from the plow spoil funneled into the trenches. Just behind the tanks, actually straddling the trench line, came M2 Bradleys pumping 7.62mm machine gun bullets into the Iraqi troops.

“I came through right after the lead company,” said Army Col. Anthony Moreno, who commanded the lead brigade during the 1st Mech’s assault. “What you saw was a bunch of buried trenches with people’s arms and legs sticking out of them. For all I know, we could have killed thousands.”

http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0211/sloyan.html

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msongs]

12. bush is at least partly responsible because ->

it is his illegal, immoral, and unethical war based on lies that has made all this possible. Every war and terrorist and ethnic violence death that has occurred as a result of the situation created by bush is at least partly his fault.

ordinary murder due to family matters, business grudges, etc, that might have occurred under sadaam are not really bush's fault.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/liberaltshirts.htm

[tlcandie]

13. LoL

:+

[meganmonkey]

14. There were virtually NO suicide bombings in Iraq

before our invasion in 2003. Prove to me otherwise.

And it isn't like Christians have never killed each other in war. There are violent and nonviolent people in every religion.

[malaise]

26. Correct

This madness has to stop - get out - stop this illegal invasion.

[Robeson]

15. "muslims have been killing each other for religious/political reasons ...

...at a phenomenal rate since the early days of thier religion."

The Islamic religion doesn't have a monopoly on that specific trait.

[Cha]

17. bushwa is the one who LIED his

fucking ass off the get us into IRAQ! These deaths sure as HELL can be BLAMED on that little poor excuse for a human being!

[0007]

27. Kim Jong Il is bigger than junior with his elevated shoes off!

[meganmonkey]

19. In case you're wondering

why your post got deleted, it is probably because it was a broadbrushed statement that was false. The mods don't like it when people make nasty stereotypes about large groups of people.

[Cha]

21. I could tell from the first

"Are you serious?" that we had a disillusioned freeper in our midst.

And, yes, I got angry just thinking about what their ilk has done to my Country.

[meganmonkey]

23. It is frustrating

Scapegoating is easy. Facing the truth and trying to deal with it is harder.

:(

[Robeson]

24. Another dead give-a-way was the poster's spelling. Note the direct...

...quote I pasted from his post, to my post #15. I copied and pasted it directly from his post. Notice anything about the spelling of "thier"?

They never have the spelling thing down, do they.

[Cha]

25. Too busy listening to that

toykorose limbaugh to learn how to spell.

[meganmonkey]

28. And we make it sooooo easy

we give them a spell checker! Geez :)

[blue4barb]

20. bushco opened up the "floodgates" in civilian deaths when he invaded.

It is absolutely tragic. The world will always know that the blood of these innocent children, women and men are on his hands. Plus the horrible living conditions that exist for the current surviors is unbearable. bush* WILL get his justice one day.

[Renew Deal]

30. How many car bombs and suicide bombs were there in NYC?

Did I miss something? :nuke:

[Roland99]

31. Tom DeLay says Iraq is no more dangerous than Houston.

I wasn't aware of the car bombings, IEDs, and kidnappings going on daily in Houston.

You think if I write to Rep. DeLay he'll supply me with some newspaper clippings of those?

[beetbox]

32. Strategy of Tension- Foment internal tensions, it's an old game

May 4, 1983—CIA’s Covert Activities Are in the Open

To oversee the operation Reagan appointed a former Saigon political officer, John Negroponte, who like his counter part in Guatemala 30 years earlier, John Peurifoy, has become the theater commander of the CIA’s war.

The captain of this ship, Negroponte was in charge of the U.S. Embassy when, according to a 1995 four-part series in the Baltimore Sun, hundreds of Hondurans were kidnapped, tortured and killed by Battalion 316, a secret army intelligence unit trained and supported by the Central Intelligence Agency. … Members of Battalion 316 were trained in surveillance and interrogation at a secret location in the United States and by the CIA at bases in Honduras. …The captain of this ship, Negroponte was in charge of the U.S. Embassy when, according to a 1995 four-part series in the Baltimore Sun, hundreds of Hondurans were kidnapped, tortured and killed by Battalion 316, a secret army intelligence unit trained and supported by the Central Intelligence Agency. … Members of Battalion 316 were trained in surveillance and interrogation at a secret location in the United States and by the CIA at bases in Honduras. …

http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2010/

"The battalion was organized by Colonel Gustav Alvarez Martinez, commander of the Honduran military, and remained under his authority after he became head of the Honduran armed forces in 1982 with the rank of general," the Sun reported. "Execution orders came down to the battalion from Alvarez" and a subordinate.

One member of Battalion 316, Florencio Caballero, told the Sun about the killing of a 35-year-old teacher and political activist. "By order of Alvarez, to be sure that no one would ever find his body, they took him from Tegucigalpa and stabbed him to death," Caballero said. "Then they cut his body to pieces with a machete and buried the pieces in different places along the road."

Peter Kornbluh of the National Security Archive notes that Negroponte's own cables and memos do not reflect any concern about these human rights abuses.

"Conspicuously absent from the cable traffic," writes Kornbluh, "is reporting on human rights atrocities that were committed by the Honduran military and its secret police unit known as Battalion 316. . . . Negroponte's cables reflect no protest, or even discussion of these issues during his many meetings with General Alvarez, his deputies, and Honduran President Robert Suazo. Nor do the released cables contain any reporting to Washington on the human rights abuses that were taking place."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0414-26.htm