US relents on Islamic law to reach Iraq deal

[baby_bear]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1553862,00.html

US relents on Islamic law to reach Iraq deal

Rory Carroll in Baghdad and Julian Borger in Washington
Monday August 22, 2005
The Guardian

<snip>
The United States has eased its opposition to an Islamic Iraqi state to help clinch a deal on a draft constitution before tonight's deadline.
American diplomats backed religious conservatives who threatened to torpedo talks over the shape of the new Iraq unless Islam was a primary source of law. Secular and liberal groups were dismayed at the move, branding it a betrayal of Washington's promise to advocate equal rights in a free and tolerant society.
...
Sunni Arabs, a dominant minority under Saddam Hussein and now the backbone of the insurgency, fear a constitution which cedes autonomy to Kurds in the north and Shias in the south, leaving central government too weak to funnel oil revenues to Sunnis in the middle.

The drafting committee's 15-member Sunni bloc said it had been sidelined in recent days and appealed to the US and UN to ensure their voice was heard. US and British diplomats have suggested that federalism will be fudged enough to bring mainstream Sunnis on board and drain support from the resistance.

</snip>

I don't claim to understand all this, in particular, about fudging federalism. How can they fudge that? Either the locals get local control or they don't. What am I not getting here?

b_b

[ET Awful]

1. LOL . . . so we went from a secular Iraq to an Islamic State of Iraq

and all it took was 1800+ US casualties, a couple hundred coalition casualties and tens of thousands of dead civilians.

I'm glad we spread freedom and emocracy.

[AtomicKitten]

21. Yes, fine work, Bunnypants!

We have turned a contained secular state into a fundie state.
We have turned a state that had probably the most advanced women's rights in the middle east into one that will have none.
Well done, Preznit Dumbass!!!

* what do you mean "we?"

[shraby]

2. They're selling the Iraqis down the drain

to expedite the "constitution" so they can say they have one and were successful.
Never mind the "little" details like civil rights and freedoms. Getting the constitution put together is the main objective, not what it says.

[Demeter]

4. Women and Children First

such is chivalry.

[cliss]

30. Yes. I've heard they're sweating bullets

because the American public is getting tired of all this crap. They're wanting some "hard evidence" that things are improving. So the Bush administration is under the gun to produce a constitution.

Problem is, it just can't be done according to Bush's Big Mac "Gotta have it now mentality". I heard that on Friday they weren't able to agree on anything. If they are unable to reach any kind of consensus, then the government might dissolve.

Now, THAT would be poetic justice for Bush.

[Joanne98]

3. Well, this was PREDICTABLE!

[POAS]

5. They trully will have

a US style democracy.

Vote for the religious conservative of your choice. They are the only votes that will be counted anyway.

[Bobbieo]

7. Democracy For Iraq

Way to go, George! This is another fine mess you've has gotten us into or just maybe the sly dog is leading the the way to turn the U.S. into a theocracy. From where do I order my burka?

[NYC]

42. Order here for only $80.

http://muttaqun.com/store/c518.html

Scroll down to Afghan Burqua. You'll need full length.

[Bobbieo]

8. Democracy For Iraq

Way to go, George! This is another fine mess you've has gotten us into or just maybe the sly dog is leading the the way to turn the U.S. into a theocracy. From where do I order my burka?

[anitar1]

38. From Bush Burkas.com n/t

[MrBenchley]

6. Peace in our time!!

Osama had two demands...the US out of Saudi Arabia and Iraq to have a theocratic government...and now pResident Weakesntupid has appeased him with both....

[rodeodance]

11. .and I sold my soul to the company store.....

[meganmonkey]

9. I'm sure Iran is so pleased

:banghead:

[Fatima]

10. Swell...

Islamic law and democracy just don't mix. Where's the response from the right wing nutjobs who claim to be willing to sacrifice all for Iraq "freedom" and "democracy?"

[rodeodance]

12. well, watch the spin----it will mix in the minds of bushINC.

[DesEtoiles]

13. Religious extremist US govt creates another Religious extremist govt

[IowaGuy]

14. Imagine this...

Assume Sadaam was some sort of all powerful and super intelligent and devious evil mad man that had some secret plan to take over the Middle East and attack the United States, and the ability to do it...(OK, maybe you got to be a repuke to think that, instead of thinkin' like reality based people that he was just some tin horn dictator scrapin' to keep power in his own little corner of the world, and not succeeding very well, after all - he did not have control of the air, the Kurds to the north, the Shiites to the south, or the borders); but humor me, and assume that, anyway.

What if a hit squad was sent in to assisinate him - one bullet? The country would dissolve into chaos, it would become a hot bed for terrorists and there would be bombings and killings, religous Islamic fundamentalists would charge into the power vacuum and create a religous theocracy....

the difference? 1800+ and counting dead American soldiers and 100's of billions of dollars....yeah, just an absolutely brilliant bunch we got in DC now, huh?

[reprobate]

15. My letter to Orlando Slantinel. Write your local paper, spread the word

Osama Bin Laden had only two demands of the United States. First, we must pull out of Saudi Arabia. We did that several years ago.

Second, Iraq must have an Islamic government. That appeared to be the last thing that would happen in Iraq, what with the Sunnis and Kirds violently opposed to it. But lo and behold, just when it appeared that a new Iraqi constitution would not happen because the Shiites, backed by Iran, held out for a government run by Sharia law while the other two faction were opposed, the United States folded and OKed a Constitution based on Sharia law.

Now, women who are raped will be stoned to death for soiling the reputation of their families. We invaded Iraq, according to the latest prevarication of our President to bring them democracy.

I ask you Mr. Bush, and all who can still support him, is this the democracy that almost two thousand American citizens lost their lives for, along with tens of thousand of innocent Iraqi civilians?

Sir, if you let this happen may the spirits of all the American soldiers who died for your lies haunt you all the rest of your days. For shame!

[Carla in Ca]

19. I'm with you

Sending LTTE's to 3 newspapers tonight!

[bribri16]

16. "relents?" Don't they mean "flip-flops?" Call it like it is, damn it! n

[MO_Dem]

17. Yes, flip-flop!

Flip-flop king of the u.s.a.

[bpilgrim]

25. the mother of all FLIP-FLOPS

if i dare say so...

peace

[proud patriot]

18. Bastards

:grr:

[Eloriel]

20. Making Howard Dean right AGAIN

that women were better off under Saddam Hussein, for which he was thoroughly scorched from a lot of different sides.

But the man just isn't wrong -- that I know of.

[LevelB]

22. My country went to war

and all I got was this lousy Islamic State.

And what a bargain! Only $200,000,000,000! You don't get prices like this just anywhere!

:P

B

[Disturbed]

23. The Bush Regime and the Multi-Natls.

do not give a shit about Democracy!

They will get their Iraq Colony and the oil flow.

[wickerwoman]

49. That's a great T-shirt slogan.

Didn't DU have a competition a few months ago for stuff to put on T-shirts? That would be a great one.

:-)

[jobycom]

24. Thus again proving why war never works to establish Democracy from without

When a country or a developing country, like the US in 1789, makes a move to throw off tyranny and create a democracy, then all sides are willing to work out a plan that everyone agrees on. When a workable government is overthrown from outside, there is no such agreement. People who held power before or people who have some other means of dominance aren't invested, they aren't going to give up that edge. Thus, groups like the Kurds and the Shia aren't going to give up their power and wealth to the Sunnis. They didn't ask to share, they didn't want to share, they ain't gonna share.

Further proof that a monkey can understand global politics better than a Republican.

[phillysuse]

26. BUSH SELLS OUT CHRISTIANS IN IRAQ

I think this would make a great bumper sticker.

[Endangered Specie]

28. Indeed, even under Saddam, Christians were allowed to pratice

Weve changed it from a dictatorship to a theocracy, nice going! :sarcasm:

[baby_bear]

41. Jews also were protected.

As always, I am not saying the guy was good. He was harsh on his perceived enemies/opponents.

But we have to look at the whole picture, and whether civil rights are now are better or worse because of Bush. I happen to like woomen's rights, myself.

b_b

[me b zola]

46. How about this one:

bush: spreading theocracy everywhere

[carincross]

27. Dexter Filkins also reported this in today's NYT

Dexter Filkins reported that "under a deal brokered Friday by the American ambassador, Zalmay Khalilzad, Islam was to be named "a primary source of legislation" in the new Iraqi constitution, with the proviso that no legislation be permitted that conflicted with the "universal principles" of the religion. The latter phrase raised concerns that Iraqi judges would have wide latitude to strike down laws now on the books, as well as future legislation. Mr. Khalilzad had backed language that would have given clerics sole authority in settling marriage and family disputes. That gave rise to concerns that women's rights."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/21/international/middleeast/21iraq.html


What a sell out!

[grahamhgreen]

29. "Adultery" means being in the presence of a male who is not a family...

member and is punishable by death (stoning to death) under Sharia law (this is how it is currently in afghanistan). Apostasy - leaving the Islamic faith, say, converting to Christianity - is also punishable by death (as it is currently in Afghanistan.

There is a high probability that this is the outcome that the Bush administration wanted all along, as people and revenues are more easily controlled under repressive religious states (as is done in Saudi Arabia).

On a side note, I am half expecting that there will be another terrorist attack when Bush's approval rating drops below 40%.

[Rex]

31. Free and tolerant society? BAWHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Sorry... :rofl: We don't do things like that in America. Sorry freedom lovers, it ain't happening.

[mike_c]

32. this is OBL's greatest victory-- he must be chuckling mightily....

The U.S. has overthrown a stable, determinably secular ME state and helped to foster its replacement by an Islamist regime loyal to the clergy in Iran. And made it hate us in the process. And made ourselves international pariahs while we were at it. Anything else we can do for you today, Mr. bin Laden?

[derby378]

33. Any Iraqi woman who supports this compromise is a traitor to women

'Nuff said.

[Matilda]

34. One step forward and three back.

Well done, George.

[Carla in Ca]

39. Howard was right and we need to hit hard on this

REPUBLICANS CONSENT TO END OF FREEDOM IN IRAQ

edited to add link

This is a title of a diary on Dailykos. I am going to put it on a new poster for a demonstration Wednesday night.




And what say you Hitchens, you useful fucking idiot? Americans just "freed" the Iraqis so they could live under Islamic law. That's quite a goddamned achievement. You must be so proud.

How about you Condi? Are you proud of what you've done? You just "freed" 13 million women into second class citizenship -- probably into hell. Tough luck ladies. Don't worry, though, your granddaughters might get their rights back in their lifetimes. You can't stop progress, you know.

And what about you, George you misbegotten cretin. Is this what you were talking about in all these windy speeches about freedom being the gift of the almighty and all that other flatulent twaddle you peddle to the silly rubes who confuse leadership with frat boy swagger? Did you free the Iraqis so they could live under Ayatollahs?

MORE...
<http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/22/01417/0497>

[baby_bear]

35. Where is Laura Bush, the great feminist, now that we need her?

She was so supportive of improved rights in Afghanistan for women. Why is she not speaking out now for Iranian women who will LOSE rights that they have had for more than twenty - or is it thiry - years - thanks to her husband? They have been sophisticated and educated and free to be professionals and peers among their society. No longer, apparently.

Thanks a lot, George, and as for you Laura, well, I don't use the kind of language I am thinking of. But shame on you.

b_b

[Erika]

45. She's waiting to be programmed

with her daughters. They are the new class elitists.

[PatriotGames]

36. Sounds like Iraq will be same as with Saddam in some regards.

Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

[PatriotGames]

37. This is a wet dream for BushCo. He would love to have the USA the same.

Only with Christianity as a staple.

[grahamhgreen]

43. Exactly where he is headed.

[VTMechEngr]

40. This was the Noble Cause?

And yet the sheeple will eat this up.

[ngGale]

44. Iraq has been a secular country for 40 years..

and our gang of thieves had to screw it all up, especially for women.

Way to go, Bushco!:mad:

[Erika]

47. But Barbara Bush

has too beautiful of a mind to "waste" on our dead. Laura, and the Twins are about as socially oriented as the Vogue models. The Bush ladies, like their oil money.

[Nothing Without Hope]

48. There go women's rights. They'll be worse off now than they were.

But Iran will be happy.

[ruggerson]

50. US Relents On Islamic Law To Reach Iraq Deal

Unbelievable. We've been fighting and spilling blood to set up a theocracy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1553862,00.html

Rory Carroll in Baghdad and Julian Borger in Washington
Monday August 22, 2005
The Guardian


The United States has eased its opposition to an Islamic Iraqi state to help clinch a deal on a draft constitution before tonight's deadline.
American diplomats backed religious conservatives who threatened to torpedo talks over the shape of the new Iraq unless Islam was a primary source of law. Secular and liberal groups were dismayed at the move, branding it a betrayal of Washington's promise to advocate equal rights in a free and tolerant society.

Stalemate over the role of Islam, among other issues, meant last week's deadline was extended for a week. Outstanding disputes could produce another cliffhanger tonight, triggering a further extension.

The Bush administration, keen to show the political process is on track, has waded into negotiations and pressured all sides to compromise.

[mom cat]

51. And this war was to liberate Iraqi women..........not.

[rodeodance]

52. Fineman on msnbc was just saying that the Relig.conservatives here in

the US told bush that the Iragi constitution can not enshrine Islum-as it would not lead to religious freedom. Looks like bush has this tag on his back also! 1

[ruggerson]

53. kick n/t