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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 08:03 PM
Original message
Europen Union Wants to Build Own Military
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=3&u=/ap/eu_summit

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The European Union (news - web sites) pushed ahead Friday with efforts to build its own defense arm but sought to ease U.S. concerns by insisting the plan would neither duplicate nor undermine NATO (news - web sites).


EU leaders, wrapping up a two-day summit in Brussels, also welcomed the unanimous support for the U.N. resolution on rebuilding Iraq (news - web sites) while keeping up pressure for a "realistic schedule" for restoring sovereignty to the Iraqi people.


On all other issues discussed at the summit — from the bloc's future constitution to providing troops and money to help out in Iraq — there was little agreement.


EU foreign policy representative Javier Solana told reporters that work would continue on increasing the European Union's ability to operate military or peacekeeping missions independently of NATO.

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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Can you blame them?
Smart move.
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Is this tied in some way to...
Edited on Fri Oct-17-03 08:15 PM by jokerman2004
To the unexpected unanimous vote by the UN Security Council for the Iraq resolution? I wonder. There's allot of moving around the board going on this past two weeks.

Anyone else notice this? Speculations of what the scenerio might be on the world scene?
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. They've been discussing this for years
It was one of the main points of forming the EU. Other countries have been becoming really tired of America's arrogance over the last few decades. The problems isn't just Bush... It was Clinton pushing GMOs which will destroy their agricultural industry, or hormone laden beef, the 8 years of incessant bombings against Iraq, Reagan, Bush I & Carter with their destabilization of Latin America...

No this is not new... Countries, like people get tired of being pushed around, and sooner or later rebel.

Right now, there may be more of a sense of urgency because of the mad-man at the helm, but it's not just him, it's the entire crazy course we've been on.
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neverforget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is all about balancing power. Sooner or later, a country or a
group of countries would unite to check American power. It was just a matter of time.
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lindashaw Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
4. Will they adapt the preemptive strike doctrine, too. Now that we have
initiated it into the world arena.
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Dirk39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Lol, you got it: It might not become soft democratic Europe...
as an alternative to the aggressive american "superpower". It might become just another superpower, and we have Bushes etc. too. We have so much of them that we can even export them to California....
Get me out of here...
Greetings from Germany,
Dirk
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Its quite sobering to think that
if the PNAC agenda is adhered to, then the US will have to stike at any power that threatens it.
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-17-03 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. That Would Be Interesting
Especially if Russia joined to add their nuclear weapons to the arsenal. The NATO countries would opt out and the oil would be bought and sold with Euros collapsing the Dollar.

I think we have "met the enemy and he is us" with Dimbo in charge.

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. this is the exact scenario
//Especially if Russia joined to add their nuclear weapons to the arsenal. The NATO countries would opt out and the oil would be bought and sold with Euros collapsing the Dollar.//

Put forth by anti-fascist reasearcher Dave Emory....this has been quietly happening for some time...the actual Franco/german alliance declared defacto war on us in 1998 over Menwith hill listening station.The theory puts forth a F/G/R? alliance to destroy the dollar force the UK into the EU, and through the treasonous activities of the BFEE deliver a severly weakened or economically destroyed USA to the rule of the EU cartels.The Russian decision, The recent 9/24 decision by OPEC to stop accepting dollars for oil after 1/1/04. with identical rumblings from the Chinese. tend to lend some credence to this theory.we may be in for a bumpy ride.

The title “Anglo-Saxonia vs. Germania” derives from a concept first introduced in FTR#103 (recorded in early August of 1998) and developed at length in FTR#394. Currently being manifested in the Iraqi war, this geopolitical struggle is a continuation of World War II, with an economic contest between the dollar and the euro at the center of the struggle. Employing proxy war in the Middle East, “diplomacy as a continuation of war by other means” and the economic theories of pan-German theoretician Friedrich List, a Third Reich gone underground and its French and Islamofascist allies are fighting against the US and UK. (For more about this complex analysis, see—among other programs—FTR#’s 394-403.)

Program Highlights Include: Review of the “Battle of Menwith Hill” and reprise of the initial For The Record discussion of the EU/German attack on the Echelon network and the Menwith Hill listening station; an alleged Pakistani terrorist money launderer’s connections to the World Muslim Congress; the WMC’s fascist heritage under the Grand Mufti; the indictment of Bush political ally Sami Al-Arian for terrorist support activities; Al-Arian’s connections to Sheik Rahman (connected to the first World Trade Center attack); the activities of Bush business associate Khalid Bin Mahfouz in conjunction with Al Qaeda; the arrest of a key Al Qaeda financier in Pakistan; the sudden reversal of field by the defense in the case of the 3/20/2002 Operation Green Quest Raids; the connections of the 3/20 Green Quest raids to the Sami Al-Arian case; Mohammed Atta’s German associates; the German elite connections of Atta’s German friends; the two Florida flight schools owned by the “Flying Dutchmen” at which the 9/11 pilots trained; the resignation of a top White House counterterrorism official; Al Qaeda negotiations with Saddam Hussein to act as a “back-up unit” to Saddam Hussein.

1. In that prescient broadcast, Mr. Emory characterized the story as “a blockbuster . . . for all intents and purposes an act of war . . . a reforming of the battle lines of World War II . . . in effect, “Anglo-Saxonia versus Germania.”

http://www.spitfirelist.com/f404.html
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Informed...Yes
But there's no "exact" scenario when the shit hits the fan and idiots are in charge.

History books are written "after-the-fact" and there's no guarentee that the "God-Is-With Me" folks people in charge are exactly edcuated in Diplomacy. Didn't Asskrap lose an election to a corpse and how much does that fact and his "Lord" color his opinion?

The only logic in this administration is their greed and insanity at the exclusion of anything else and ignoring "their" agenda. When you accept that, everything falls in to place.
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tlb Donating Member (611 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. EU military balance to the US is fantasy.
At no time in the foreseeable future will Europe constitute a genuine military check to the US. Even if there was the political will to try, the investment to even approach US military power is prohibitive to even a joint EU conglomerate as it's share of world GDP declines in relation to the US and China.

And where is the will ? Europe military investment is anemic even by NATO standards. NATO at the height of it's power couldn't deal with tiny Serbia without US airpower. European military power has sharply declined from that point

Also subtract Russian nukes from this theory. Does anyone actually believe the Russian president will turn over nuclear decisions to non-Russians, or consider their use for non-Russian interests ? Additionally, the old Warsaw Pact members joined NATO to get AWAY from Russian dominance. Whatever dreams Mr Chirac may have on this point, I don't see Poland and the others quietly permitting this.

As for the British and French nuclear capabilities, did the French care enough about Iraq to threaten George Bush with nuclear war? Will GM negiotations be so heated the US will be told to fold or lose New York City ? What possible likely scenerio can anyone see the US and Europe having a Cuban missile crisis over.

We can expect some reorganization of European military units into an "EU Army", but this is likely to simply cover a further reduction in REAL capabilities under the guise of reform. The British used this tactic again and again over the last few decades. Residually we can expect a small expeditionary force for third world use such as we saw in the Ivory Coast, but not competitive with any superpower.


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BloodyWilliam Donating Member (665 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-18-03 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. A unified European military?
Can't say I'm against it. Together Europe could probably produce a military force big enough to get us to end our incessant posturing.
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