Warner: Base Closures 'Rigged' (Washinton Post)

[Up2Late]

(Oh, Now this could get interesting!)

Warner: Base Closures 'Rigged'

D.C. Area Jobs Long Targeted, Senator Asserts

By Spencer S. Hsu
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 24, 2005; Page A01

Virginia Sen. John W. Warner (R) said that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and a senior aide improperly manipulated the national base realignment plan announced earlier this year to compel the movement of more than 20,000 defense jobs away from the Washington area.

Two years before the Pentagon revealed its base closing plan May 13, in a stream of memos and internal records, top department officials were saying that "thinning of headquarters in the National Capital Region remains a(n) objective," according to Warner.

Raymond F. DuBois, Rumsfeld's principal aide for personnel and organizational planning, guided planners in an April 1, 2004, meeting: "The Secretary of Defense wants to reduce footprint and headcount in the . . . -- Moving activities from the is good but moving activities beyond the 100-mile radius of the Pentagon is better," according to minutes of his remarks cited by Warner.

Warner, chairman of the powerful Senate Armed Service Committee, said the Defense Department acted improperly by singling out one area of the country for cutbacks. He added that he did not know the reasoning behind the 100-mile limit.

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/23/AR2005082301537.html?nav=rss_email/components>
(more at link above)

[stillcool]

1. somebody has their hands in the Senators pockets?

its funny how none of these guys have a problem with anything until their almighty dollar gets threatened.

[short bus president]

2. well isn't THAT interesting...

:popcorn:

[OKthatsIT]

37. This isnt new news...when Dems take over

all this shit Bush has done will be changed again.

Especialy making the old bases into nuke storage facilities.

[Rex]

3. Rummy is just thinning the herd.

Easier to control the military with less people looking over your shoulder.

[Alcibiades]

4. California

had many of its bases closed for voting Democratic consistently, with Democratic congressional districts especially hard hit. What makes less sense for the Republicans, politically, is that here they are moving all these defense jobs from Virginia, a red state, to Maryland, a blue one--unless they think that could turn Maryland red, which simply will not happen.

[drhilarius]

5. The metro DC area is a very blue area...

Strangely enough, 100 miles out and you're pretty much in red country. Losing 20,000 residents would be very damaging to this area.

[Alcibiades]

7. True enough

To get beyond this perimeter they'd have to go beyond Elkton, beyond Hagerstown, and down south to Richmond, where they won't find any cost savings, either. And we have to pay for them to move all this stuff--that's fiscal responsibility for you!

[Virginian]

8. Losing 20,000 jobs in the DC area does not necessarily mean

losing 20,000 residents. Many cannot move to follow the job because of a working spouse. It would mean higher unemployment and more resentment of the H1-b work visa program and its ever increasing quotas.

[Up2Late]

6. All I know is I would NOT want to be in Rummies seat...

...when he goes before Sen. Warner's Committee to defend this closure list, that guy is very scary when he's mad.:hide:

[katamaran]

9. Norfolk area is about to get completely screwed too

Norfolk area is about to get completely screwed too. We're going to lose 20,000+ jobs here if they close all the bases they're talking about here. Great way to turn Virginia blue, that's for damn sure.

[Zech Marquis]

17. buh bye Oceana and Fort Monroe

when BRAC brought up those alternate sites in Texas and Florida, i knew it was game over then...but for Rummy to have enoughballs to close Oceana, shit....

[Squatch]

25. VA Beach will be fucked if Oceana closes.

It's the biggest employer in the city. Besides tourism, VA Beach has no industry to speak of.

[Captain Hilts]

33. Va. Beach doesn't deserve Oceana NAS.

As someone who's lived in that area on and off since 1959, it's amazing to see how the city permitted huge amounts of development around the air field.

Yuck! I wouldn't go down there if my mother weren't there.

I DO think it makes sense to pull the subs out of Norfolk and put them in Groton.

[wli]

10. BRAC = punish blue, reward red

It's so blatant it's far beyond obvious.

When we get control of Congress back we very seriously need to go about putting the Republican Party out of business for all time.

Declaring the Republican Party a terrorist organization would be a good start.

[sam sarrha]

11. will we ever recover from this Bu$hShit.. ..?? I think not.

[sam sarrha]

12. it is more than the personel.. about 4 to 6 support jobs per single loss.

[Canuckistanian]

13. What? Political manipulation of government resources? Impossible.

No one would jeopardize America's security by withholding staffing of major military areas, would they? And for political reasons? Bah.

[kodi]

14. if the govt is worried about DC getting nuked, isn't that wise?

.

[jsamuel]

15. hmmm... that's what I was thinking "100 mile limit" <--- nuke area!!!

Is it wise?

Might as well just move the Capitol then...

[librechik]

29. yeah, me too--and I agree with Rummy! (choke)

it's good tactics militarily.

But my heart is warmed to see Warner split from the main herd.

Divide the Pukkkes and conquer!

[ngGale]

16. My thought is, they are building a fortress ...

around the Pentagon. What else do they know and plan on doing.:scared:

[NVMojo]

18. betcha they are moving inland to Denver, etc ...

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

19. Yep...

... Denver has been mentioned as the "new western capital" of the US many times in my researching on the internet.

[tanyev]

21. Also all the fundie influence in Colorado Springs.

Colorado could become the headquarters of the new theocracy.

[lynne]

20. $$$ is the key -

- leased real estate in the DC Metro area is insanely priced. The further you move from the area, the more the price per sq. foot of leased space decreases. From the article it appears that leased space is targeted and that those jobs would be moved to government owned property in outlying areas. -

"In all, the Pentagon plan would shut or trim 837 bases and save $49 billion over 20 years. The District, Arlington and Alexandria stand to lose about 30,000 jobs by 2011 under the plan -- some of the biggest cuts in the country -- including 23,000 workers in leased buildings in Northern Virginia.

Maryland and Virginia would gain more than 20,000 jobs on military bases in outlying suburbs, including Fort Belvoir in southeast Fairfax County, Fort Meade in Anne Arundel County and Aberdeen Proving Ground in Harford County, Md."

[Captain Hilts]

22. Connecticut got unfairly screwed in favor of Georgia.

The Groton sub base got NO credit for being a nine iron from Electric Boat which builds and designs submarines, but the base in St. Mary's GA got credit for having an Air Force reserve facility not far away.

The only way that makes sense is if your goal is to move all military spending to the sun belt.

[calico1]

24. I agree. But CT is not a Red state

so we'll get screwed.

[Lori Price CLG]

31. Of course! Even the GOP governor in CT is liberal! Jodi Rell refused to

allow random backpack searches on the trains to NY (lots of CT folks commute to Manhattan every day) and has signed several other pieces of 'liberal' legislation this year, without a court fight w. the Dems!!

(Rell replaced Governor John G. Rowland, who was sent to prison, for corruption.)

Lori Price

[JanusAscending]

39. HEY NEIGHBOR!!!

I'll "second" your post! HURRAH!!!! We saved the SUB BASE!! I live in Thomaston, and am on the Dem. Town Committee here, working from the bottom up to make Thomaston Democratic. We've finally got a great slate!! Maybe you'd be interested in attending some of our fund raisers coming up? Let me know, and I'll email you the details. (if you aren't already aware of them.) You seem to be "on top" of everything!!:hi: :hug:

[NewJeffCT]

41. the legislation she signed

1) the civil unions bill, which she said ahead of time she would sign.

2) she proposed funding for embryonic stem cell research, which was later expanded by the legislature w/o her objection.

also, she did propose complete public financing of all statewide campaigns, which is normally a Dem issue. However, she blindsided the Dems with her flip-flop with 2 days to go in the legislative session... so, they weren't prepared and got caught with their pants down. It made the Dems look like amateurs.

[gulfcoastliberal]

43. Yeah but Rell supported scumbag Rowland to the end

After 1st saying she was disgusted by his actions. I have a relative in the CT state legislature (dem, of course) who says Rell, depsite what you mentioned, is a big dissapointment.

[Up2Late]

32. Well, I have some good news for you, Turns out, Conn. did NOT get Screwed

but Georgia did (so far). They just announced on NPR the Grotton will NOT close, but several Georgia Bases will.

I don't know were you got the idea that Georgia is benefiting from this, most of Georgia is getting screwed too. They are closing a lot of bases and consolidating most of them at 1 or 2 very large bases like Fort Benning.

[henslee]

23. When it rains it pours.

[architect359]

26. Off the wall comment

and probably ignorant too - but, it reminded me of ancient Rome. I had an impression that Rome did not allow any legions other than the home (or local) units within the city's limits. There seemed to be a big deal made on whether a popular general or generals would march into the city with their armies or not. Did the Roman leaders have to grant some type of permission for the armies to enter? I can't remember. But if the armies camped outside the city's limits, they were loyal. If not, they were a threat. Anyway, sorry - it was, like I mentioned, an off the wall.

[happyslug]

42. Depends on the Time Period

As long as the Roman Legions were Militia (i.e. Every Roman Citizen served and had to provide your own armor, if you could not afford armor you ended up in the Roman Navy) this was NOT a problem. Basically the Militia type legion and the Roman People were one and the same thus the Roman legions WERE not able or willing to march on Rome (Through you did have at least two time periods in Republican Rome where the Poor People left the city in a Strike till the Upper Classes gave them more rights).

The Militia based Roman Army is what defeated Hannibal and Conquered the Mediterranean world. Once that happen the Roman citizen Soldier wanted to go home and stay home (He would accept living as a Colonist in a Province but he still retain his rights as a Roman). The problem stated with the Third Punic War (Hannibal was defeated in the the Second Punic War). During the Third Punic War it became clear that the Roman Citizen Soldier did NOT believe he was fighting for ROme but instead fighting for the Wealth of the Upper Classes. Over the next 50 years (Roughly 146 BCE to 104 BCE) this became more and more the case. Roman Citizens were willing to fight for Rome and fight their wealthy elite BUT were NOT willing to beat up some Barbarian just to make some of Rome's Elite richer. In 104 BCE this came to a head when Marius was ordered to raise two Legions and defeat some Germans who were invading the Provence of France (Southern France). Marius raised his army by PAYING Roman Citizens to join his army and giving them Armor to fight. The economic Situation over the previous 100 years had seen the large impoverishment of the Roman lower classes thus this was an opportunity to fight and actually get something out of the War.

Marius than defeated the Germans with this mercenary Army WHO WERE LOYAL ONLY TO HIM NOT THE ROMAN STATE. Other Roman Senators quickly followed suite. The Militia Army remained but unequipped and untrained after 104 BCE it became less and less important as time went on. Marius was of the Reform party of Rome backing more rights to the lower classes. In this Marius was opposed by his fellow Senators who recruited Marius chief lieutenant to act for them. The Senate than striped Marius of his command (which he disbursed) and told Sulla to defeat an enemy attacking Greece. Sulla defeated that Enemy and than turned his army on Rome (Technically the Senate had ordered Sulla to turn his army over to Marius but Sulla refused and Marched on Rome).

In the Mean time Marius had died of old age which left his party leaderless. Sulla than moved in before the Command of the Roman Army opposing him could be made clear. Thus Sulla defeated Marius's Army and ordered all of Marius veterans killed. Sulla than ruled as the First Dictator for Life Rome Ever had.

Sulla ruled for ten years and than retired and died. Sulla was succeeded by the First Triumvirate of Caesar (Marius's nephew and Chief Priest of Rome), Pompey (Sulla's Chief Lieutenant) and Crassus (The Richest man in Rome at that time). This represented the chief means of News in Caesar (the Priest hood of Rome controlled the news of Rome, remember printing is 1400 years in the Future thus the only way to get any message out is through the Priests class) with the Military power of Pompey with the Money of Crassus (Notice who won out, not wealth, not military might but who controlled the media).

As had been the custom for 100 years Caesar had been Consul (The Executive of the Roman Republic, Rome had two) and than ruled a province of Rome for five years afterwords (In this position he was "Proconsul" i.e. after being a consul through by usage means a Ruling representative in a foreign land). Technically Caesar's Province of Rome was "Gaul" which under Roman rule included what is now Milan and Lombardy in addition to today's France. As Proconsul of Gaul Caesar had the right to move his army anywhere in "Gaul" including Northern Italy which was NOT Italy by Roman law but "Gaul".

The Southern Border to "Gaul" was the Rubicon River, thus when Caesar lead his Army across the Rubicon he was moving his army out of his province and into Italy proper, something no Roman General had done since Sulla.

Thus the answer to your question is when and who? The issue is marching on Rome with an Roman Army. Sulla did it in 82 BCE, Caesar did in in 49 BCE and Galba did it in 68 AD to overthrow Nero. No one had done it during the days of the Militia Army, but once you had that Mercenary army that army did as its paymasters commanded.


For more on this time period see:
http://history.boisestate.edu/westciv/romanrev/

Marius (Through watch reading on Marius while his Nephew Caesar did finally rule decades after Marius's Death, the sources we have are from the people he politically OPPOSED so the spin to make him look bad is strong in all of these sources):
http://heraklia.fws1.com/contemporaries/marius/
http://www.roman-empire.net/republic/marius-index.html

Marius by Plutarch:
http://classics.mit.edu/Plutarch/c_marius.html

Caesar:
http://heraklia.fws1.com/

Sulla:
http://heraklia.fws1.com/contemporaries/sulla/
Sulla by Plutarch:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/bl_text_plutarch_sylla.htm

Pompey the Great:
http://www.csun.edu/~hcfll004/PompeyTheGreat.html
http://heraklia.fws1.com/contemporaries/pompey/

Galba:
http://www.roman-emperors.org/galba.htm

List of Roman Emperors:
http://www.roman-emperors.org/impindex.htm

[bemildred]

27. Close them all. What could be fairer than that? nt

[Captain Hilts]

28. Sub Base SAVED! Sub Base SAVED! Yay!!!! (nt)

[Igel]

30. Of course it's rigged.

It has to be rigged. Rigged to preserve land, $, resources, or something else. But rigged.

As opposed to randomly distributed.

Or maybe Warner wants it rigged to exclude his area.

It was silly to consolidate so much in one area without a good strategic reason for it.

[samsingh]

34. they rig elections so this isn't much of a stretch.

[Up2Late]

35. I think you and most everyone else here are missing the "Interesting"...

...part of Warner's statement:

"Virginia Sen. John W. Warner (R) said that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and a senior aide improperly manipulated the national base realignment plan..."

Those are fighting words, sounds to me like Senator Warner might be thinking about launching a Criminal Investigation of Rumsfeld!

It could just be wishful thinking an my part, but that's what I find most interesting about his statement.:shrug:

[bemildred]

36. Ooooh. That is GOOD!

I love it when they fight over the spoils.

[samsingh]

38. i hope you're right. at the very least we have some

repugs angry at other repugs.

[Roland99]

40. Why does this liberal Senator hate our freedom?