U.S. commander killed in Iraq firefight - CNN - CO of 716th MP Bn

[TacticalPeek]

U.S. commander killed in Iraq firefight
12-hour battle in holy city claims six lives

Friday, October 17, 2003 Posted: 8:09 PM EDT (0009 GMT)


BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Four U.S. military police, including a commanding officer, and two Iraqi policemen, were killed in two separate incidents Friday.

The latest deaths bring the number of U.S. troops killed in hostile fire since President Bush declared an end to major combat to 101.

Among those killed in a 12-hour gunfight in the holy city of Karbala was the 43-year-old commanding officer of the 716th Military Police Battalion, 101st Airborne Division.

Two other U.S. military police officers and two Iraqi policemen died in the firefight after attempting to negotiate with armed men congregated near a mosque after curfew. Twelve members of the joint patrol -- seven Americans and five Iraqis -- were wounded. (Gallery: Clash in Karbala)

Tensions have been high in Karbala where there is a power struggle among rival Shiite factions

more

http://us.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/10/17/sprj.irq.main/index.html

[Nottingham]

1. Iraq is way out of control this is the evidence

:bounce: Our service men at like targets for snipers

[TacticalPeek]

2. Their home page:

Shows Lt Col Kim S. Orlando. Think I heard CNN tv say it was a female KIA. Too bad. Sorry for her and hers.

http://www.campbell.army.mil/716mp/716.htm

[alcuno]

3. I think the Lt. Colonel is a he.

I was reading some comments attributed to him and it said, "he said."

[NNN0LHI]

I have heard it was a female several times today on cable n/t

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

10. is it worse if it's female?

just asking

[moondust]

11. Dunno but

it's worse if it's one of the palace dwellers as opposed to one of the sandbox dwellers.

[SaintLouisBlues]

12. More hype from media whores and the reality show crowd

for a women Lt. Colonel, I'd imagine. Of course all 300 plus of our
unnecessary war dead are equally tragic.

[Fish Eye]

13. nothing tragic

about justice.

[JNelson6563]

15. agreed

When do you think we can look forward to some actual justice?

[J B]

4. Korean then.

And hey, this is Shiite infighting these guys were messing with, right? So the Shiites have taken out a US commanding officer, and the US is sending the Turks to say hi to the Kurds...

What competence! What vision!

[TacticalPeek]

7. The only reason I can imagine a light colonel in such a gunfight

is if they went out thinking they could negotiate the thing down somehow.

The restlessness in Shia Land is what could close the window on this phase of the G war.

[DuctapeFatwa]

8. I would characterize any "infighting" as having more to do with

Differences between individuals who have taken money from the Crusaders in return for betraying their countrymen and those who have refused the money and are defending a holy city from an invasion of militant bush regime gunmen.

[The Magistrate]

18. Do Not Imagine, Sir, There Are Not Factions Within The Shia

Wholly independent of the U.S. presence: there are quarrels rooted in tribal identity, doctrine, and even personal animosity. The great fact of Iraq is that is a civil war waiting to happen, and has been throughout the modern era.

The most interesting element of the event is that it shows hostility to the U.S. is hardly limited to the Sunni regions, as official commentators have been long at pains to claim, and many among the people must believe. It is, in fact, widespread throughout the Iraqi populace, and the Shia quiesence to date has been a strategic decision of the leading clerics and tribal elders, not a result of friendship or gratitude, or even fear.

[bemildred]

19. The Shia do seem to have given a good account of themselves, too.

Their home turf of course, and no heavy weapons used.

[DuctapeFatwa]

20. There are, and there is nothing like a foreign invader to make rival

factions come together in a crescendo of positively Spielbergian, albeit temporary unity to vanquish the invader so that they can return to their regularly scheduled rival factioning.

Especially when the foreign invader takes a notion to sack a city that is holy to all the factions.

[The Magistrate]

22. We Are Rather Short Of 'Sacking', Mr. Fatwa

That is an ancient term of art, and you have not seen it in these present days.

Otherwise, Sir, we seem in substantial, if unaccustomed, agreement in this matter.

[DuctapeFatwa]

23. I acknowledge that sacking is more often used by the sackees

than the sackers. Kind of like massacre. Generally, the survivors will be the ones to call it a massacre, and the aggressors will refer to it as an "operation." Which is also what they tend to call it when they sack pillage, or loot something.

Victims and their attackers seldom speak the same language.

Groping and sexual assault become playful gestures, invasions become liberations, occupations become rebuildings, or security measures, murders become targeted strategic maneuvers, armed robbery becomes confiscation of contraband...

[DuctapeFatwa]

5. Somehow I doubt that only 2 Iraqis "died as a result of.."

To be fair, I also doubt that only 6 Crusaders died.

And I doubt that the "battle" is confined to Karbala.

It is unlikely that holding Karbala under siege will receive a positive reaction from Iraqis throughout the country.

For those who are not aware, Karbala is a holy city.

[alcuno]

6. I heard earlier that at least 5 Iraqis were killed

[JCMach1]

9. We are completely blowing it with the Shia now

What a waste!

[0007]

14. Why" Why isn't Boykin

over there fighting in the name of his God, which he believes is bigger and more powerful than Allah.

You'd believe asshole junior would use his General to win the war, 'eh?

[jmcgowanjm]

16. Onward Christian soldiers

The US must have this Department
designed specifically to piss
off the maximum number of Neutrals.

Motto: Make sure No one is Sitting on the
Fence!

[sujan]

21. backward christian soldiers

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

17. Maybe the Officer's Corp will start speaking up about Iraq

Until now, it has mostly been the enlisted troops complaining about
what is actually happening in Iraq. But with the death of a Lt. Col.,
the officer corps may finally start to speak up as well. Lord knows
the media won't. Today's Austin-Statesman had the 4 killed story on
page 14. Our media is pathetic.