Poll: Many back right to protest Iraq war

[Eugene]

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Iraq%20AP%20Ipsos%20Poll

Thursday, August 25, 2005 · Last updated 11:52 p.m. PT

Poll: Many back right to protest Iraq war

By WILL LESTER
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

WASHINGTON -- An overwhelming number of people say critics of the Iraq
war should be free to voice their objections - a rare example of
widespread agreement about a conflict that has divided the nation
along partisan lines.

Nearly three weeks after a grieving California mother named Cindy
Sheehan started her anti-war protest near President Bush's Texas ranch,
nine of 10 people surveyed in an AP-Ipsos poll say it's OK for war
opponents to publicly share their concerns about the conflict.

<snip>

Overall attitudes about the war - while negative - haven't changed
dramatically through the summer and a solid majority, 60 percent, want
U.S. troops to stick it out until Iraq is stable.

The poll found that most people disapprove of the Bush administration's
conduct of the war and think the war was a mistake. Half believe it
has increased the threat of terrorism. Democrats overwhelmingly
question the president's policies, while Republicans overwhelmingly
support them.

more...

[Zhade]

1. We're winning.

It's at a slow pace, but we're still winning.

[DemInDistress]

4. what are we winning??

please !!!!

[goforit]

12. Great point!!!

[RageFist]

20. We're "winning" back

what is rightfully ours to begin with

[0007]

22. Go figure!

[Zhade]

28. Yeah, sorry to have felt a brief glimmer of hope there.

I'll be sure not to have unwarranted hope in the future, so as to not piss you off.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

29. You know what? I'll answer that this way...

Think back to after 9/11 (which had zero to do with Iraq, of course).

How tolerated was dissent back then?

How many times were YOU called all sorts of names for not backing b*s* during the run-up to and implementation of the invasion of Iraq?

I think we're winning - winning back, as another poster said - the recognition that it is right and patriotic and quite American to dissent. To protest.

These numbers are encouraging, and while they are not the end game (never would have implied that, I'm not an idiot), it's still good news.

So, there's your answer. Sorry about the snarkiness of the earlier post.

[wicket]

30. Amen!

:kick:

[DemInDistress]

39. Zhade....your "snarky" remarks are not the issue

The issue is,"what are we winning".To date we won shit,there has been
more death and destruction inside Iraq in 28 months than Saddam cause in 10 years.I see a snowballs chance in hell of winning anything.The Bush Crime Family was delusional thinking Iraqi's would roll over and lay down a welcome carpet.On March 18,2003 I was one of 25 million worldwide who protested the illegal and unnecessary attack on Iraq.What was the hurry? Inspections were working,WMD's could not be found.Did you think that maybe Saddam did destroy them,his 12,000 pages of documents claimed his destroyed his Wmd's.Regardless of not finding WMD's the Bush crime Family had no business whatsoever attacking Iraq.
Hell,even I supported bush after 9/11 as did 90% of Americans in the hunt for the guy who crashed those jets.He was hiding out in Afghanistan and in Dec,01'Coalition forces reportedly had Osama surrounded inside the mountains of Tora Bora.Our president allowed Osama to escape and then turned his eyes on Iraq.During 2002,for 7 months he and blair fixed,faked,forged and lied about Saddam.Today 28 months later,1874 dead soldiers,20/30,000 wounded,100,000 Iraqi's dead possibly 200,000 wounded and the cost of this carnage is in the hundreds of billions of badly needed dollars....SO,MR.ZHADE I DON'T BELIEVE WE WON ANYTHING...SORRY,IF I DISILLUSION YOUR THOUGHTS.

[PurpleChez]

41. "Disillusion your thoughts"??? WTF???

Reality and perspective are quite important, and after four+ years of BushCo pessimism is unavoidable, but I'd say you overreacted (to Zhade's post) on an unimaginable scale. Change, when it does, will come gradually and incrementally. We're not gonna wake up tomorrow to images of the bushies' heads on pikes in front of the white house and a Constitutional government back in place. Take what you can get, then build on it. The man took pleasure in some positive news -- no need to float him a whole raft of shit for it. I respect your tentativeness, but I'm also tired of seeing progressives get so caught up in pessimistic pissing contests that they don't do anything else, because heck, it ain't gonna make a difference. Allow the others a morale boost now and then -- fighters of all sorts need to take pride in the battles won, even if they're still a long way from winning the war.

[DemInDistress]

45. Purple TAKE WHAT YOU CAN GET !!!!!

Yes,just TAKE it,steal it,own it....That's the American way !!!!
Hell if we need it,lets just take it,I cant get over your pompous remarks.Iraq was not a threat to America prior to March 19 2003.The Bush Crime Family and their gang of OIL thieves LIED,FIXED,FAKED,FORGED AND MANUFACTURED non-existant reasons...I didnt buy into the Bush Crime Family reasons for invading Iraq in March 2003 nor do I believe we are winning shit in Iraq.If you support the Bush Crime Family's war policy well thats your burden to carry,I dont support the war in Iraq period.....
Go ahead,blast away......

[Zhade]

50. Okay, I just gotta say, WHAT THE FUCK?

The poster tells you not to expect a sea change overnight, and you accuse him/her of supporting the war?

What the hell - is this a language barrier or something? Respectfully, is English your second language?

I am baffled by your posts. Do you demand that everyone go fetal and suck their thumb in the corner? I just don't get it - we basically believe what you're saying, and you're going off like a wounded animal or something.

Bizarre!

And the irony of all this? Most days, I feel just as helpless as your posts indicate you do. Then, when I see a little good news, I find someone even more depressed about the situation than me.

[PurpleChez]

55. Please tell me if English is not your native language...

When you pluralized "Iraqi" with an apostrophe-s that was a clue (but a lot of my neighbors do that too), and "disillusion your thoughts" seemed like a good sign. Then I read that my remarks were "pompous." My remarks were, in fact, critical of your previous post, but I am having a hard time identifying the pomposity in them. It seems that anyone who disagrees with you becomes the victim of a semi-literate verbal attack -- a technique best left to the Freepers and other GOP brown shirts. You obviously know nothing of my beliefs -- many of which are both explicit and implicit in the posts that you are responding to -- if you think that I don't agree with your absolutely 100% accurate assessment of the neocons as liars, thieves, and worse. I'm just...well...confused as to how you could take my statement that we should "take what we can get" by taking pleasure from any victory, however small, and think for a moment that I meant "TAKE it,steal it,own it....if we need it,lets just take it." When I read your previous posts last night I thought you were simply a good-hearted leftie who had been overwhelmed by the ugliness of BushCo and all they've done, but now...I don't think you even know what you're reading. And what you're writing isn't making a whole lot of sense either. My first post on this thread was skeptical -- I think a lot of people said that protest was OK because they were asked about an abstraction, but if they were confronted with a real honest-to-goodness bush-bashing protest they'd revert to enraged freeper mode. You don't need to remind me that the bushies are bad people. But whether we're talking about a military conflict or a social struggle no competent leader is going to begrudge his troops some happiness now and then over small victories -- even if the war itself is far from over. Lighten up, read ALL the words, and please discover your space bar.

[Surya Gayatri]

53. Well said, Purple

If hope dies, there is nothing left. Zhade's guarded optimism is founded in the unfolding of events--although I also agree with DeminDistress that we are still in diabolically difficult circumstances. I believe the next year will be the most dangerous time this nation, not speak of the world, has ever lived through. If you have never prayed before, now's the time. The long feared 'Middle East Conflagration' is only a hair's breath away, with all of the fallout that that implies. :nuke:

[Zhade]

60. And again, the funny thing is that most days I DON'T have optimism!

Some days I'm worse than our very distressed poster. I truly feel no hope, and just kinda wait for the apocalypse (not that I actually believe in such a thing, but still).

I can only conclude that there is a language barrier or some other difficulty, so I don't hold it against the poster for attacking my guarded hope - which is exactly the right way to describe my comment.

Certainly, it's bad that we're at a point where having a majority think the 1st Amendment is okay is some sort of victory, but hey, people could be going the other way, and that's even worse!

[Zhade]

42. I guess it's either look for a tiny ray of hope, or shoot myself.

I opted for the former, as I'm allergic to death, especially my own.

Seriously, everything you say is true, but look at some of what's happened. A majority of people now recognize that what you've posted is true. They didn't before.

Despite our bullshit media, they're kinda sorta slowly waking up. I'll take my victories where I can find them.

If I didn't, I doubt I'd still post, or indeed get out of bed. It's hard enough as it is.

[goforit]

44. Monty Python..."Ya gotta always look on the bright side of life"

I agree with this....the only answer to survival.

[DemInDistress]

46. tiny ray of hope....

Hope for what? I hope the Bush Crime Family doesn't pull off yet another spectactular New,New Pearl Harbor,then suspending the constitution and imposing Martial Law.Is that to hard to preceive a new and more deadly attack on America is on the drawing board.Sure I hope I"m wrong about that but looking at the Bush Crime Family history
it appears to be a slam dunk !!!!! go ahead blast away....

[Zhade]

47. If you're determined to feel like all is lost, go for it.

I certainly won't stop you.

[DemInDistress]

48. thanks for the disagreement...

I still respect your opinion.

[Zhade]

49. Gee, thanks, I guess.

Was there a reason for you to disrespect it in the first place?

What an odd exchange! At any rate, hope you feel better, crushing horrors that are quite real notwithstanding.

[Surya Gayatri]

54. Peace & courage to you both, Zhade and DemIn...

Like most of us and with good reason, both of you are obviously in pain and fearful for the future. Any rhetorical overflow is to be excused on either side.

[Zhade]

61. Same to you, and thanks for the kind words.

It gets heavy sometimes, I sure don't fault DemIn for feeling the same way I've felt many, many days these last few years.

Cheers!

[Imagevision]

57. 60% want U.S. troops to stick it out? - 60% of W-H-O??

60% of Republicans maybe...!

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[SammyBlue]

32. We are winning?

I'm sorry, but am I the only who finds this disturbing? People believe we have the right to protest???

WTF??? What are these cretins thinking?

I understand most American are soft, wimpy and don't have the courage of their conviction (war supporting, college aged freepers) but now people believe we have the right to protest?

Hey, dippity-doo. . .it doesn't take much imagination to agree!

[seejanerun]

40. I was just thinking the same thing.

Maybe this is the way they crack open the door to making free speech a debatable issue: first write a story saying that most people believe what we think is obvious, then chip away at it. Look at what happened to privacy.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

2. Media slant from "Many" in headline to "Overwhelming" 90% in story.

[Lochloosa]

3. Beat me to it...the first thing I noticed

I was expecting oh...53% not 90%

[KayLaw]

6. I noticed that right away

Typical, no?

:eyes:

[electropop]

10. Yeah, "Many" makes it sound like maybe dozens of people,

not a NINETY FREAKING PERCENT MAJORITY. Pricks. I get so sick of this minimizing BS.

[spooky3]

13. More slant; Reps "support", Dems "question"

"Democrats overwhelmingly
question the president's policies, while Republicans overwhelmingly
support them."

How about "oppose" as the opposite of support?

[jokerman93]

16. Why should it matter when...

Why should it matter in this political climate when questioning the president is as good as treason?

That's the meme, right?

[spooky3]

19. good point!

[krkaufman]

15. Egg-freakin-zactly. "many", to me, implies a number shy of 50%

90% translates to "nearly all", "ubiquitous", and, as the article states, "overwhelming."

Definitely some headline scrubbing there. Just sad.

[rfranklin]

34. Most feel execution of treasonous critics not warranted....

Among Democrats, most questioned the need to execute treasonous dissenters by lethal injection or electrocution. Patriotic Republicans, however, favored genocide by an overwhelming margin.

[Justyce]

5. Why do they sound surprised

that American citizens believe in the right to free speech?! Geez...

[fasttense]

7. Good point Justyce.

Can you see the headline now? "New Poll Shows US Citizen Favor Free Speech." Well duh.....

[bunkerbuster1]

24. "First Amendment a Good Thing," Poll Reveals

Says a bit about journamalistic cynicism that they think this is news, don't ya think?

[leftchick]

8. Better headline at the Khaleej Times....

Americans overwhelmingly support right of critics to openly protest Iraq war: poll

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2005/August/theworld_August721.xml§ion=theworld&col=

[Megahurtz]

23. "Retiree Ruth Carver of Indiana said she disagrees with Sheehan’s

protest. “I think her son would be ashamed of her,” said Carver, a Republican. “If I don’t like what’s going on, I can go to the polls every four years.”:eyes:

Might work for you maybe and gee, I wonder why?:eyes:

:sarcasm:

The trouble is, there are still too many idiots with this mindset that vote every four years.

What a fucking Moron!:dunce:

[Gronk Groks]

38. Why does a East Indian newspaper get it right...

...and the American MSM try to minimize the impact?

Are we going to HAVE to read overseas newspapers to learn what is happening in our own country? :shrug:

[DeepModem Mom]

9. kick

[Mari333]

11. 60% want the troops to stick it out, as long as its not their kids

which is why a draft would be a good thing.

[Gregorian]

14. We don't need no stinkin' poll.

The day we can't protest is the day it's not America.

But yay for the majority of Americans seeing that. I'm a lot more upset that a fair percentage of them are complete boneheads. Just wait until they can't speak.

[Imagevision]

17. By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Less than half of Americans now say they think. President Bush is honest, ...

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[natrat]

18. stick it out until it's stable

and cheney's merry crew will keep things nice and stable

[VegasWolf]

21. In other news, "Many still support 1st Amendment!" nt

[Guaranteed]

25. Exactly what I thought.

Gee, thanks guys! :)

[meganmonkey]

27. The worst part is

I was so relieved to read that!

At least with my expectations so low lately, I get pleasantly surprised sometimes :)

[Dr Fate]

26. We dont need a poll- only the 1st Amendment...

The only poll that matters is Bush's approval ratings- which are LOW.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. " 'Many' believe Bush is doing a shitty job."

[savemefromdumbya]

31. Is there anything in the constitution like a 'vote of no confidence'

Is there anything like a 'vote of no confidence' in the constitution? Can the people present to the government a petition to force the President and VP and the cabinet to resign on the basis of tyranny and lies? If not perhaps we should add it?

[NYC Liberal]

33. What the hell is this "Americans believe..."?

"An overwhelming number of people say critics of the Iraq war should be free to voice their objections"

Ummm....why, was Congress thinking of suspending the 1st Amendment or something? What is the point of these polls? It doesn't really matter whether people "believe" protesting should be "allowed" (as if not allowing it was even an option.)

[savemefromdumbya]

35. People don't understand what's in the constitution

some people don't even know what's in the constitution. Perhaps they need educating on this subject?

[Rude Horner]

37. This country is in DESPERATE need

of education! And unfortunately, our whole education process is under attack from conservative christians and other special interest groups.

I swear, they should have one entire course in school - mandatory - about people thinking for themselves. Not believing everything they hear. And tolerance of other people's opinions. With a side course in human rights and basic freedoms!

The results of this poll or whatever should be 100% agreeing that it's ok to protest. The fact that 1 in 10 people believe that we shouldn't be allowed to voice our opinions really scares me.

Oh, and as long as I'm ranting....I propose that we have a basic intelligence test before you're allowed to vote. Yup, as your standing in line to vote ya have to fill out a short, basic knowledge test of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, etc... Any flunkies - you're too damn stupid to vote! Study up and try again next time!

:rant:

[Mr_Spock]

43. 90% is many? It's as close to 100% as I've ever seen a poll

Fucking ass holes - it's the predominate opinion in this country - we all know our country was founded on a protest. Jiminy crickets!!

[FredScuttle]

51. The First Amendment, an inalienable right, is supported by a public poll

Ah, thank Jeebus for that. Hey, look over there! A missing white girl!

[Voltaire99]

52. 60 percent "want U.S. troops to stick it out until Iraq is stable"

Easy for 60 percent to say.

As Siegfried Sassoon once wrote:

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.

[classysassy]

56. Public approval

since when does a citizen need the approval of anyone to protest,the constitution says I can.

[Imagevision]

58. EXACTLY!!

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[belle]

59. "I can't believe you even asked me that question" should have

been one of the options on that poll.