(Fundamentalist) Group Files Discrimination Suit Against UC

[Mark E. Smith]

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- A group representing religious schools in the state is suing the University of California admissions officials for allegedly discriminating against high schools that teach creationism and other conservative Christian viewpoints.

The Association of Christian Schools International, which represents more than 800 schools, filed a lawsuit Thursday in federal court claiming UC officials have refused to certify high school science courses that use textbooks challenging Darwin's theory of evolution.

The suit said Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta, a co-plaintiff, was told its courses were rejected because they use textbooks printed by two Christian publishers, Bob Jones University Press and A Beka Books.

UC spokeswoman Ravi Poorsina said she could not comment because the university had not been served with the suit. Still, she said the university has a right to set course requirements.

"These requirements were established after careful study by faculty and staff to ensure that students who come here are fully prepared with broad knowledge and the critical thinking skills necessary to succeed."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UC_SUED?SITE=MABED&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. of all the insane, brainwashing . . .

These schools are engaged in child abuse. Nothing less.

What logic! "We are suing you because we demand that our forcefed diet of idiocy must be accepted by your science departments."

[Kber]

5. Can I get an Amen?

Seriously, I couldn't agree more. Creationism (and it's cousin Inteligent Design) are belief systems, not testable scientific theories. The fact that so many people don't understand the distinction is really frightening.

[Klapaucius]

7. If they could actually formulate a testable hypothesis

And test it, and actually *accept* the data, instead of twisting it to fit their a priori assumption, I might consider it, but as far as I'm concerned, it's just likely to lead to another Scopes trial, where it is again made clear that it is a religious belief, and not actual valid science. Not that I'm actually against another Scopes-like trial, perhaps it would further highlight the disconnect from reality that these people have. The sooner that people can see that it's not valid science, and does nothing other than serve as a form of brainwashing, the sooner people can ignore them as they so richly deserve.

K.

[TahitiNut]

19. Factoid: John Scopes lost.

:shrug: His 1925 conviction was only reversed (on technical grounds) by the Tennessee Supreme Court in 1927

[ChairmanAgnostic]

54. I believe his $65 fine was finally repealed in the late '60s.

That sounds about right for that state.

[belle]

9. Gues what, cupcake: Barney the Purple Dinosaur Roars! probably wouldn't be

approved as a science textbook either.

and "Left Behind" is probably not going to be included in the "American Classics" course, either. Deal.

("replying" to the subject of the original post, if it weren't obvious)

[DBoon]

2. How low has the US sunk

when one of the world's most respected university systems can be harassed like this by the most ignorant superstitious population in the industrial world.

No one should wonder why our technology jobs flee abroad and when nations like South Korea advance far ahead of us in life sciences.

[Richard Steele]

3. These idiots never stop, do they?

They KNOW that their case has no merits,
they just want to keep filing nuisance lawsuits
ad infinitum until the cost makes some Universities cry "uncle".

They want a "Faith-based" education?
Fine.
Let them find a "faith-based" college,
and stop tracking their garbage into the real schools!

[ptolle]

16. frivolity

And don't you just know these would be among that group of folk that snivel the loudest about lawyers and frivolous lawsuits? One wonders how long it will be before this latest in a fairly long line of "religious" revivals dies out? I sincerely hope that the analysis above positing lawsuit fatigue is wrong.The Universities being at least nominally independent can, by maintaining their standards for curriculum, exert a counterbalancing influence to the bellowing and wailing from the frightwingshrieker fundies seeking to take over school boards and curriculums at lower levels.

[mitchum]

4. Damn! They keep setting the bar for christian martyrdom even lower!

Shouldn't these fundy crybabies be flayed alive or beheaded or something?
Gimme thay ol' time religion! Bring on the lions.

[XanaDUer]

28. Heh, heh

Or immolated.

[meow2u3]

6. Sniveling Christo-fascist bullies

Once again they're playing the victim when in fact they want to shove their Christo-fascist views down our throats. I'm disgusted! :grr:

STP to Christofascists: You want that old-time religion? I'll give you that old-time religion......here, kitty, kitty! Nice widdle wion! :evilgrin:

[thebaghwan]

8. Help!! I am trapped in Fundie Land. Within a mile of my house are 12

Christian Churches. On Sundays you can't even get out of here due to the traffic.

[krkaufman]

10. While we're "debating" evolution...

... and refighting the 20th century, other countries are addressing TODAY's problems and building a perhaps insurmountable technological and economic advantage over us.

So this is what it feels like being dragged into the Dark Ages Redux.

[Ian David]

11. I have a compromise: Provisional acceptance and "Special Studies."

The UC campuses already have a "provisional acceptance" program.

All they have to do is require the creationist students to take and pass "special studies" classes during their first semester.

From what I've been told about Special Studies classes at Boston University, they're basically high-school level classes in basic subjects.

For example, in this case, they'd be required to pass classes in biology, history and scientific method.

[annabanana]

13. they'd be required to pass classes

in biology, history and scientific method

They'd probably complain that those courses are being forced on them, thus not allowing them "religious freedom"

[Ian David]

15. There's really no pleasing them, is there?

[Solon]

51. Actually, to be fair...

at least to a certain extent, the first panel simply shows a more or less direct predessesor to modern SCIENTIFIC Chemistry. Unlike many other areas of superstition or primitive experimentation, alchemy actually produced SOME results, like gunpowder. This is not to say that it is valid today, a better methodology and better understanding of the building blocks of the universe allows us to make better use of chemicals today. Just saying it wasn't all hocus pocus, so to speak. :)

The others are BS of course, and results varied, widely. :)

[LeftyMom]

20. Yep they would

I made the mistake of asking the Baptist minister who did my Grandmother's funeral service how is daughter was doing in school (she's an undergrad at UNR) and apparently she's doing really well except for her science classes. They really push that evolution junk, he said, it's an affront to our faith and she's having a hard time dealing with that. I'd like to say I gave him some witty retort, but as this was my Grandmother's funeral and I really din't want to start and argument I think I just made some noncommital noise.

We laughed about that on the drive home, though. The poor man was *shocked* that science classes at a public university would emphasize evolution. :eyes:

FWIW, Grandmother thought he was an idiot but there's only one church in her town. She did get him to cut out his more bigoted pronouncements (targeted at gay people and Catholics- not a good move as all Grandma's kids are Catholic and her favorite was gay) after threatening to take half the (small) congregation to the next church, 30 miles away.

[LiberalFighter]

37. Then why bother going to college?

Just like in public high schools the colleges require specific courses for basic course requirements and degree requirements. Whatever is left are elective courses.

I bet divinity colleges and other religious oriented colleges have mandatory courses that students must attend.

[0007]

12. Conservative Christian viewpoints when presented by

Bob Jones University are absolutely insane and any University in the world has the right to reject.

[Demeter]

14. So? Take It To The Supreme Court

Let the greatest minds of our nation (barf) decide if they want their doctors, lawyers, etc., to learn about Creationism and Intelligent Design instead of real science.

And make the fundies pay for all court costs when they lose. Finish the Scopes Trial, once and for all time.

[teknomanzer]

39. Really...

lets find out who wants to go back to using leaches and bleeding people... balance the humors and all that...

Dude, where is my country?

[Demeter]

50. Actually, both practices are makiing a comeback

in specific situations leeches and maggots have their uses. It's with knowledge, instead of hope, that makes the difference between quackery and science. Rather like Darwin, come to think of it.

[mbperrin]

17. Yes, we do discriminate against those with no knowledge.

However, we are willing to teach them under provisional admissions programs which will allow them to demonstrate they are victims of poor teaching, rather than simply being unable to learn.

Meanwhile, GET THE FUCK OUTTA TOWN with the lawsuits!

Thank you.

Have a nice day.

[LiberalFighter]

41. I wonder why public schools are required to be accredited

In the State of Utah, by law all public schools, granting high school credit, are required to be accredited. Accreditation ensures that the credits/diploma a student earns is the result of quality educational experience. Schools that are not accredited run the risk of not having their credits or diplomas accepted by other schools, colleges, or the military.

For the University of California it appears they must satisfy different requirements for the degree they grant to graduates as well as the general accredidation.

Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology
Accrediting Council on Education in Journalism and Mass Communications
AACSB International - The Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business Accounting Program
AACSB - The Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business Business Programs
American Association of State Colleges and Universities
American Chemical Society
American Council on Education
Council on Academic Accreditation of the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association
California Commission on Teacher Credentialing
Certified in Education for Public Relations
Commission on Accreditation of Allied Health Education Programs
Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education
Council for Advancement and Support of Education
Council of Graduate Schools Hispanic Association of Colleges and Universities
National Association of Schools of Art and Design
National Association of Schools of Dance
National Association of Schools of Music
National Association of Schools of Public Affairs and Administration
National Association of Schools of Theatre
National Association of State Universities and Land-Grant Colleges
National Council for Accreditation of Teacher Education
National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission
National Organization for Human Services Education
Orange County Business Council
Southern California Consortium on International Studies
Western Association of Graduate Schools

[TahitiNut]

18. They call it "science" to get it into the curriculum... and "religious"

... when they sue. Can we hear a big "HYPOCRISY"? The corruption and deceit of these people knows no bounds.

[kbm8795]

22. Excellent point!

We need to be screaming that LOUDLY. . .and force them to make the distinction.

[kbm8795]

21. This doesn't surprise me at all. . .

In fact, I think all of use have been expecting this kind of nonsense - it's all part of the little neo-con, wingnut, American Taliban attack on "liberal" education that doesn't meet their standards in pushing superstition.

They'll likely be charging that this is religious discrimination, even though this nation has a very long history of having religious schools outside of the publicly-funded educational system. The parents of these children deliberately chose to send their kids to these American Taliban factories, and they should have known they were grooming them to attend Liberty University or Bob Jones University. It seems to me the plan is to force U.C. to admit them, then plant them in university classes and file more lawsuits each time the professor refuses to "teach the controversy" on everything from science to government. The goal is to force the University to include fundie principles as a competing "theory" in every sort of class so students can have the "choice."

What we can expect is an upswing in the loud Right Wing contention that the universities are controlled by the out-of-touch liberals who are brainwashing our children and are "intolerant" and "bigotted" against their fundamentalist "christian" ideas. Of course, THEIR colleges will be exempt from having to present other ideas because they are private, and can continue to discriminate in admissions and employment based on minority status or sexual orientation.

This is just another example of the "special rights" demanded by people who CHOSE their religious beliefs but refuse to be responsible for the consequences of those choices. Since their religious beliefs are not innate, they were free to select other avenues of worship and education, yet chose to subscribe to these. Are they being discriminated against? Nope - not in my opinion, anyway. They could have prepared themselves for the University in any other manner, but were likely restricted from exposure to outside ideas by their church school's selection of "textbooks."
Now they want to take that same restricted mindset to the public universities and demand it be heard, even if other students have no interest in their religious beliefs.

Perhaps UC should challenge whether their education was actually "christian" or qualifies as "religious," pointing out the past racial/gender/sexual orientation practices of Bob Jones University are a violation of California law governing public universities and the schools' use of textbooks published by BJU is an indication the students intent is to violate state law on campus.

[Up2Late]

23. This is GREAT NEWS!!!

This might not end this insanity, but it could he the Fundies lose a LOT of credibility.

Most likely they will be laughed out of court, but will then try to spin it as "Judicial Activism."

I say great, "BRING IT ON!"

[Miss Chybil]

24. Good.

This will bring the issue up in court. You can't make up "science" and expect the rest of the world to go along with it. I suppose if I started a school and taught my kids in "science" class we all came from a cabbage patch, a university is supposed to accept that? Not. They want to try to force a university system to change its science requirement because of their religion? It's not going to fly. Or, it shouldn't.

[Ernesto]

25. Let them use the great Pat Robertson as their spokesman. n-t

[yorkiemommie1]

26. The Principle Curriculum

http://www.face.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FACE&Product_Code=S12V10&Category_Code=NPAV


...." Learn to find relevant Scriptures and the Biblical foundations of mathematics. Define the components of mathematics. Consider: how is the principle of individuality seen in numbers? Learn the Biblical purpose of mathematics. Study key individuals and their contribution to mathematics.

Please view the technical details of this product at http://www.face.net/npafaq.htm ..."


This is how my nephews are being taught to the tune of $5k a yr each.


:crazy:

[havocmom]

27. Tell 'em to take a slow boat to

the edge of the world and drop off

:eyes:

Wonder if these people go to doctors, drive cars and live in homes made by engineers who have the same disregard for science and reality. Am betting most go to people educated and trained to certain credible standards like the ones UC uses.

[Autonomy]

29. University of Calif. Sued Over Creationism

LOS ANGELES - A group representing California religious schools has filed a lawsuit accusing the University of California system of discriminating against high schools that teach creationism and other conservative Christian viewpoints.

The Association of Christian Schools International, which represents more than 800 schools, filed a federal lawsuit Thursday claiming UC admissions officials have refused to certify high school science courses that use textbooks challenging Darwin's theory of evolution. Other rejected courses include "Christianity's Influence in American History."

According to the lawsuit, the Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta was told its courses were rejected because they use textbooks printed by two Christian publishers, Bob Jones University Press and A Beka Books.

Wendell E. Bird, a lawyer for the association, said the policy violates the rights of students and religious schools.

"A threat to one religion is a threat to all," he said.

More: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050827/ap_on_re_us/creationism_lawsuit

[Autonomy]

30. As a UC-Berkeley alumnus, I never thought I'd see the day

when the daft rightwing thought they had a shot to make oven the most minor inroad into UC or Berkeley politics. I underestimated their insanity.

[BattyDem]

31. All universities have academic requirements

If a student didn't take a course or didn't learn what he/she was required to learn, they shouldn't be allowed to enroll. Religion is no excuse for not meeting the university's academic requirements.

[intheflow]

32. It's like the Reformation and the Enlightenment never happened

for these people. The way they twist freedom of religion to their own theocratic purposes makes me ill.

[Baconfoot]

38. The Enlightenment never DID happen except for the very-well educated.etcNT

[OfireitupO]

33. If they want to go to an institution of higher learning in fairy tales

theres always Jerry Falwells Liberty University...

[jmowreader]

56. It's not what they want for their own children

It's what they want for yours.

These people already send their children to Christian universities--there are at least 22 in California alone. There are religious colleges in every state, so there's no reason why you'd have to turn little Mary over to Jerry Falwell, Bob Jones III or Norman Adrian Wiggins. You could if you wanted, but you don't have to.

You, as a loyal Democrat, probably don't consider these colleges when choosing an institution for your child to study at. (And if you're a Christian whose child wants to go into a heretical field like engineering or hard science instead of good Christian fields like lawyerin' or preachin', you've got to suck it up and send him or her to a secular university.) That's a problem--how are we going to turn your child into a fundie Republican ready to send liberals' kids to die in the name of Jesus if you won't let us fill his head with our beliefs?

And so, this lawsuit.

[Spinzonner]

34. They can believe what they like

they still need to know the subject matter.

Should a science student be exempted from needing to know the bible or other theocratic material in a philsophy or religion course ?

[longship]

35. Next they'll be suing the Nobel Committee

What!? No Nobel Prize in creationism?

[Coastie for Truth]

44. What about the rights of patients to be treated

by competent physicians (i.e., who have studied evolution and biochemistry and genetics) and the duties of the UC system and the Medical Boards to the patients - to assure them the MD's are competent (i.e., they have studied evolution and biochemistry and genetics)

[Gman]

36. "critical thinking skills necessary to succeed"

Now there's a concept the fundies do not want anyone to have.

[Igel]

40. Some things about this I don't understand.

Are they talking AP courses for college credit, or merely saying that the students have succeeded in passing the prerequisite high school courses?

Is UC yanking certification based on the textbooks, and nothing more? Heaven help us, if so, because I know in the teaching I've done that some of what's in the textbook isn't taught, and stuff not in the textbook gets taught.

And, at the same time, doesn't UC still look at the background of the schools for gauging how to evaluate kids' test scores and grades? Kids from piss-poor schools used to be judged more leniently than kids from grade-A schools. (And, returning to the previous point: wouldn't just looking at the textbooks tell UC all they need to know?)

What's this about? "The suit, which seeks an injunction against UC's practices, accuses the university system of employing a double standard by approving courses taught through the viewpoints of other religions, such as Islam, Judaism and Buddhism." And do the variant viewpoints impact what's taught.

As for critical thinking, the scientific method, and all the rest ... I didn't realize all these were the exclusive domain of evolutionary theory. I could swear I ran into some of those things in chemistry and physics, even in general science, not to mention math and even critical thinking in literature or history.

I have precious little good to say for creationism. But it strikes me as silly to claim that a student's education in toto rests upon being taught evolutionary theory. It's something that I didn't run into once (yes, not so much as once) in my undergrad science/language double major days, or in grad school, and that we touched on only briefly in high school. Then again, I was more into chemistry and physics than biology.

[hunter]

42. You don't understand biology if you don't understand evolution.

It's as simple as that.

Imagine a physicist who claims that radioactivity doesn't exist, and that atoms are indivisible units of matter, and you've pretty much got the picture...

[Igel]

58. Yes.

But no.

We covered a lot of biology in my fairly useless high school class: cell structure, basic taxonomy, basic physiology, and some historical stuff. Evolution was mostly wedged in the historical part. It got as much time as spontaneous generation. I think my point was that people were overgeneralizing a bit: you can cover fairly rigorous scientific methodology and never address evolution. If students get it, they'll look at the ID chapter and scratch their heads. In high school, it's not worth the headache: pretty much students get it from every direction, in any event. Unlike, say, limits.

My high school girl friend was a strict creationist. She understood evolution; she just didn't believe it. She aced the biology test dealing with evolution.

Do biology in college, it's a bigger deal. Same with radioactivity and subatomic particles in physics: you need to know about subatomic particles. But you can do a lot with Maxwell's equations, optics, kinetics and statics, and even relativity. And we did some pretty fancy statistical mechanics in physical chemistry assuming an ideal gas.

UC used to consider the students as such, not prejudging them based on their schools and other things beyond their control, such as the textbook the school used. This was a good thing.

[LiberalFighter]

43. There are private religious colleges and universities in California

Why don't they apply there? Or have they been rejected by them too?

California Independent 4-Year Colleges/Universities

I wonder which universities and colleges specifically besides Bob Jones and Falwell teach creationism. Especially religious.

[question everything]

45. Lawsuit against UC system claims religious bias

Saturday, August 27, 2005

Lawsuit against UC system claims religious bias

By: JENNIFER KABBANY - Staff Writer
North (San Diego) County Times

MURRIETA ---- The University of California is shunning Christian academics by refusing to give credit for several high school classes taught at private Christian schools, according to a lawsuit filed Thursday in a Los Angeles-based federal courthouse.

The lawsuit was filed on behalf of Calvary Chapel Christian School in Murrieta, five of its students, and the Association of Christian Schools International, which represents more than 800 religious schools in the state and 4,000 nationwide, court documents state.

Their claim: The UC system, which operates 10 public universities serving more than 200,000 students, is discriminating against Christian schools by rejecting some high school courses for college-entrance credit because they include or are based upon Christian viewpoints.

(snip)

Tyler said that part of the lawsuit also delves into science classes, contending that the UC system is denying some science courses that use common Christian science textbooks because its officials don't approve of the fact that they refer to creationism, the belief that God created the universe in six days, and intelligent design, which accepts most scientific theories and natural laws as fact but asserts they are the result of a higher power.

More..

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/08/27/news/californian/13_06_458_26_05.txt

Contact staff writer Jennifer Kabbany at [phone], Ext. 2625, or [e-mail].

[msongs]

46. this is old news...and creationism is NOT science at UC nt

[LiberalFighter]

47. Already been posted earlier today

[question everything]

48. Sorry, searched but did not find any (nt)

[intheflow]

49. Here's the post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1731405&mesg_id=1731913

[sakabatou]

52. I think that the the ACSI has a point

but it's with the wrong message.

[fujiyama]

53. If these people read books

by Bob Jones Press, maybe they should just go to Bob Jones Fuckin University.

The UCs are selective universities and they expect the students enrolling there to have basic scientific concepts, including evolution.

[onager]

55. They want the OTHER victory in the Scopes Trial...

While we rationalists like to laugh about the hijinx at the famous 1925 "Monkey Trial," we never hear much about the other, more stunning victory the Creationists won after the Scopes Trial.

Fearing lawsuits and boycotts, textbook publishers immediately dumbed down their science schoolbooks. Many of them dropped ANY MENTION of evolution, and others marginalized Darwin's teachings. Books published before 1925 went into much greater detail about the workings of evolution.

The situation remained the same until 1957, when the Russians launched Sputnik and scared the crap out of America's politicians and opinion-makers. It was only then that pre-college textbooks recovered to their pre-1925 level.

A fairly recent book covers this, and you can probably find it on Google. I read about it in SKEPTIC magazine, but am too lazy to go find it right now...

[moggie]

57. Look at what these schools teach

I learned of this lawsuit via an article at The Questionable Authority. You can see for yourself what one of the BJU school biology textbooks says, because Bob Jones University Press have extracts available on their website:

http://www.bjup.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?parent_category_rn=279832&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&productId=1514951

Take a look at this line from the introduction, for example:

The people who have prepared this book have tried consistently to put the Word of God first and science second.

So, this is not a text which simply tries to put a Christian spin on established science. On the contrary, it explicitly states that it will ignore science when science has reached conclusions which are inconvenient to a biblical literalist. It goes on to give an example:

If your teacher assigns a report on grasshoppers, an encyclopedia would be a logical place to begin. As you find out about the legs and wings of grasshoppers, how far these insects jump, their life cycle, how much damage they cause each year, and what type of insecticides are used to control them, you are gleaning scientific material.

The same encyclopedia article may state that the grasshopper evolved 300 million years ago. You may find a description of some insect that the grasshopper supposedly evolved from and a description of the insects that scientists say evolved from the grasshopper. You may even find a "scientific" explanation of the biblical locust (grasshopper) plague in Egypt. These statements are conclusions based on "supposed science". If the conclusions contradict the Word of God, the conclusions are wrong, no matter how many scientific facts may appear to back them.

Pretty breathtaking, no? It misrepresents science, setting up a false distinction between mundane observation (how far a grasshopper can jump) and evolution, implying that the latter is mere guesswork. Later (p.19), chapter 1 falsely equates evolution with abiogenesis (in fact, evolution has nothing to say about how life got started, its realm is what has happened since then).

So what we have here is a "science" textbook which (a) lies about science and (b) admits that it ignores science, no matter how solid, which contradicts a literal reading of the bible. And university biology departments should be forced to accept students who have been mis-educated using this junk? I don't think so!

[goodboy]

59. The fundies will get laughed outta court. Can't wait! (nt)

[GoddessOfGuinness]

60. If they really want their kids to swallow that creationist crap

they should send them to Bob Jones or Oral Roberts or something of that ilk.